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LeftWinger

Official 2018 Off Season *Rebuild* Thread

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3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Exactly what I'd like to see if Zadina and Rasmussen make the team. Who's our 4th line then though? Bertuzzi - Helm - Abdelkader, with Glendening and Frk sitting? That would have the potential to actually be a very good forward group, except that A) I don't see Zadina on the top line (if he makes it) and definitely not with two other "kids", and B) I don't see Glendening sitting. A trade must happen... or an injury...

Psh. Details. :P

  • Two games into the season, Helm lands on the IR. Because Ham.
  • Glendening finally gets pushed out of regular rotation because now we have some actual scoring depth. (He'll be back in regular rotation next year due to Z's LTIRement.) (meh.)
  • Frk is Schrödinger's cat.
  • Zadina slots in on the top line because you have to give Wings fans an actual reason to be excited about Red Wings hockey and get them to actually show up for home games. HYPE! is a powerful thing.

---

I refuse to join the "A trade has to be coming, right?" chorus. We say it every summer and it's always waivers and/or injury to the rescue.

Time is a flat circle. Everything we have done or will do we will do over and over and over again, forever.

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I like how we're all open to the notion that all this Z stuff isn't just posturing for a LTIR claim.

He may not want to play any more, but I'm sure he could.

1 minute ago, Dabura said:

I refuse to join the "A trade has to be coming, right?" chorus. We say it every summer and it's always waivers and/or injury to the rescue.

Sheahan might argue otherwise

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30 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Psh. Details. :P

  • Two games into the season, Helm lands on the IR. Because Ham.
  • Glendening finally gets pushed out of regular rotation because now we have some actual scoring depth. (He'll be back in regular rotation next year due to Z's LTIRement.) (meh.)
  • Frk is Schrödinger's cat.
  • Zadina slots in on the top line because you have to give Wings fans an actual reason to be excited about Red Wings hockey and get them to actually show up for home games. HYPE! is a powerful thing.

---

I refuse to join the "A trade has to be coming, right?" chorus. We say it every summer and it's always waivers and/or injury to the rescue.

Time is a flat circle. Everything we have done or will do we will do over and over and over again, forever.

darren-helm-11-15-16-49ae3bccf9a7c554.jp

BECAUSE:

HamNew.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Buppy said:

I like how we're all open to the notion that all this Z stuff isn't just posturing for a LTIR claim.

He may not want to play any more, but I'm sure he could.

It could be (and probably is) posturing in anticipation of LTIRement, but is that even necessary? The League never formally challenges these things and the most recent case is "Bro, I'm allergic to my equipment. Gotta call it quits, sorry."

12 minutes ago, Buppy said:

Sheahan might argue otherwise

Never heard of him.

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https://www.detroitnews.com/picture-gallery/sports/nhl/red-wings/2018/06/19/red-wings-draft-picks-10-biggest-misses/36170953/

The usual suspects.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2018/07/26/jonatan-berggren-hopeful-becoming-latest-detroit-red-wings-draft-steal/842423002/

“A couple of teams came up and said they were planning to take him right after us,” said Hakan Andersson, the Wings’ director of European scouting. “Montreal was one of them.”

 

“Oh yes, because of all the Swedes (on the roster),” said Berggren, after a development camp practice last month. “The Wings were my favorite team when I was a child. Zetterberg was my favorite player. I haven’t met him yet.

“I’m happy to be a Red Wing.”

Many analysts and scouts compare Berggren to Nashville forward Viktor Arvidsson, who played on the same Swedish junior team, has an identical build, and plays a similar style.

Arvidsson had 29 goals and 61 points for Nashville this season, so if Berggren progresses to that level, the Wings would be entirely pleased.

Edited by Neomaxizoomdweebie

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4 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

“Oh yes, because of all the Swedes (on the roster),” said Berggren, after a development camp practice last month. “The Wings were my favorite team when I was a child. Zetterberg was my favorite player. I haven’t met him yet.

“I’m happy to be a Red Wing.”

So he wants in on the mafia. He should know once you get in, you can't get out. 

Edited by kickazz

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43 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Ya, I read that. Some of these writers have a vision of what a team needs to do, and if a team does not follow that exact path, they will say things like "lacking vision" "directionless" etc. But hey, Arizona and Buffalo have been killing it with their torch it to the ground strategy huh. (not directed at you, its at the writer).

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2 minutes ago, kliq said:

Ya, I read that. Some of these writers have a vision of what a team needs to do, and if a team does not follow that exact path, they will say things like "lacking vision" "directionless" etc. But hey, Arizona and Buffalo have been killing it with their torch it to the ground strategy huh. (not directed at you, its at the writer).

I like Wysh as a reporter. Engaging writer/personality, pretty smart guy, and very knowledgeable. But he's very much a fan (NJ) and I have gotten the impression over the years that he's never cared much for the Red Wings. I think there's some butt hurt from the 90s in him. I believe he was one of those guys that started calling for "the streak" to end in like 2011-12, and kept calling it every year despite always being wrong until 2016-17, but don't quote me.

Anyway, it boils down to he thinks we should be buying-out all our big contracts, not signing any new ones, and committing to like a 10 year rebuild. Valid opinion, but I personally disagree.

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54 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Pretty blunt, but I don't entirely disagree. A lot of those old players and cap space he speaks of will be mostly gone in the next two seasons though. I also think we have a lot of very nice pieces coming (at forward), but we definitely need to work on the defense. Still no blue chip prospects in the system on the back end. 

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I do like Wysh but he, like many writers, along with their own personal and often very strict views/takes on what a team needs to do to rebuild and or win ( @kliq & @ChristopherReevesLegs )

Writers also attribute the "fixing" or "winning ways" of a team to one player. 

For example: Steve Yzerman to the end of our playoff/cup drought.  A nice crutch to fall back on. Easily and mistakenly made, but easily built upon. (see below for more of this) BUT to @krsmith17's point -- in the very next sentence he "poo-poo's" the idea that any of our current forwards can make that impact. Dylan Larkin doesn't have a glimmer of hope in being a differential player for the Wings?  We should already be moving on to Ras and Zadina.  WTF.  Dylan Larkin is exactly the type of player that could be the next Stevie Y for this team. A key, but not sole piece to the puzzle.

...but remind me?  Did we make the playoffs EVERY YEAR after Yzerman arrived.  ...and how far along did we get with just the acquisition of Steve Yzerman.  Wasn't his ass gonna get traded at one point because he couldn't get it done?  ...but no!  Steve Yzerman is the ******* answer to all.

God, I know he's like one of the most beloved sports figures in Detroit sport history (debatable -- I don't think he should be the most revered Wing.) ... and no disrespect, but let's not put all of our playoff history and success solely on the back of Steve Yzerman.  There were a lot of other players that helped this team get over the hump.  Some of them well over the age of 25 when it happened.  ...and sure the league is changing and becoming younger ...but a roster made up solely of players 25-and-under (which seems to be the cornerstone of  Wysh's rebuilding  process) or one lone generational talent...  is only gonna get you so far.

I'm not saying that Holland doesn't have his work cut out for him, doesn't need to trade a player or two, and certainly, no most definitely, needs to change up the strategy when it comes to acquiring defensive talent.    BUT.  For every Darren Helm and Justin Abdelkader -- which according to Wysh (and others) are terrible contracts and need to be jettisoned immediately for us to find success...  for each of the aforementioned, remember we had a Doug Brown or Mathieu Dandenault or Bob Erry.  

(Examples. Solely examples.  Understandably not the same players, type of player etc. Cap world vs. Non-Cap world. Etc.  Sorry if I shat on your favorite player of '96 - '97.) 

 

Edited by e_prime

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13 minutes ago, e_prime said:

 

I do like Wysh but he, like many writers, along with their own personal and often very strict views/takes on what a team needs to do to rebuild and or win ( @kliq & @ChristopherReevesLegs )

They also attribute the "fixing" or "winning ways" of a team to one player. 

For example: Steve Yzerman to the end of our playoff/cup drought.  A nice crutch to fall back on. Easily and mistakenly made, but easily built upon. (see below for more of this) BUT to @krsmith17's point --In the very next sentence he "poo-poo's" the idea that any of our current forwards can make that impact. Dylan Larkin doesn't have a glimmer of hope in being a differential player for the Wings?  We should already be moving on to Ras and Zadina.  WTF.  Dylan Larkin is exactly the type of player that could be the next Stevie Y for this team

...but remind me?  Did we make the playoffs EVERY YEAR after Yzerman arrived.  ...and how far along did we get with just the acquisition of Steve Yzerman.  Wasn't his ass gonna get traded at one point because he couldn't get it done?  ...but no!  Steve Yzerman is the ******* answer to all.

God, I know he's like one of the most beloved sports figures in Detroit sport history (debatable -- I don't think he should be the most revered Wing.) ... and no disrespect, but let's not put all of our playoff history and success solely on the back of Steve Yzerman.  There were a lot of other players that helped this team get over the hump.  Some of them well over the age of 25 when it happened.  ...and sure the league is changing and becoming younger ...but a roster made up solely of players 25-and-under (which seems to be the cornerstone of  Wysh's rebuilding  process) or one lone generational talent...  is only gonna get you so far.

I'm not saying that Holland doesn't have his work cut out for him, doesn't need to trade a player or two, and certainly, no most definitely, needs to change up the strategy when it comes to acquiring defensive talent.    BUT.  For every Darren Helm and Justin Abdelkader -- which according to Wysh (and others) are terrible contracts and need to be jettisoned immediately for us to find success...  for each of the aforementioned, remember we had a Doug Brown or Mathieu Dandenault or Bob Erry.  

(Examples. Solely examples.  Understandably not the same players, type of player etc. Cap world vs. Non-Cap world. Etc.  Sorry if I shat on your favorite player of '96 - '97.) 

 

You're 100% right. Yzerman was the beginning of the turn around... but the team didn't truly turnaround until he had Coffey, Fedorov, Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Fetisov, Ciccarelli, Sheppard, Primeau, Vernon, among others, around him. It's a team game.

Never poo poo D-Boss though

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2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

"The Wings are in cap hell!"

Zetterberg is headed for LTIRement. Kronwall has one season left. Nyquist is on an expiring contract. Howard is on an expiring contract. Vanek's on a one-year deal, and the most we'd probably get for him at the trade deadline is a 3rd-round pick, so I really don't care that Holland gave him trade protection. The Leafs have kicked the tires on Glendening. The Bruins have kicked the tires on Helm. The Wings are poised to have a s***-ton of cap space next summer. If you're going to knock the Wings for being in "cap hell" and not even acknowledge this, you are bad and you should feel bad.

"The Wings are too old!"

See above.

"The Wings don't have any truly special young players!"

So, the Wings are too old and this is problematic, and also their young talent is unremarkable and this is problematic. It's almost like they're only a season and a half into their rebuild effort. It's almost like they're in that "We lack elite young talent, so we need to have a few really good drafts over the next few years, so we're gonna flip veterans for picks and finish in the bottom eight for a few years, and when we free up a ton of cap space (a fast-approaching inevitability) we're gonna go HAM after marquee free agents and probably land one" phase.

Edited by Dabura

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2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

If anyone is feeling hopeful about the coming season, just watch and remember this (must enjoy pain):

No effort. Half heart-ed checks. Truly embarrassing.

Help us, Disco Dan, you're our only hope.

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