Holland and Blashill expected to return

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, Dabura said:

Even with Dahlin, we're probably not a playoff team next year.

Can't seem to find it right now, but I remember reading a Holland quote a few weeks ago, something to the effect of "The team will be changing, but I'm not really looking at next year. I'm more focused on 2019, 2020." I believe he also recently said the organization wants players who can help us four or five years from now -- the implication being that while everyone wants a really quick turnaround, The Powers That Be are pretty much treating this as an actual, honest-to-God rebuild. Not a scorched earth teardown, but also not a we'll-be-back-in-a-year "reload."

I'm tired of Holland, but maybe we're starting to see a Holland -- or an ownership-Holland dynamic -- that we haven't seen before. Dunno if that *excites* me, but it does give me some hope.

This. We've seen "No Cap" Holland be successful. We've seen "Hold on to the Streak" Holland fail. What we haven't seen yet is "Rebuild" Holland. Many seem to assume he will fail based on the second. It seems to me that replacing him with anyone else at this point wouldn't be anymore of a guarantee of success than giving "Rebuild" Holland a chance to see what he can do.

[kliq 3,755]

55 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

This. We've seen "No Cap" Holland be successful. We've seen "Hold on to the Streak" Holland fail. What we haven't seen yet is "Rebuild" Holland. Many seem to assume he will fail based on the second. It seems to me that replacing him with anyone else at this point wouldn't be anymore of a guarantee of success than giving "Rebuild" Holland a chance to see what he can do.

To be fair, we also saw "re-build on the fly" Holland succeed between '02 and '08.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

IF he really means it and avoids anymore 3+ year contracts to guys 29+ years old who aren't going to be much use in 2 or 3 years, I'll cut him some slack.  If he brings Green back for 3+ years with a NTC, signs another Nielsen type forward, etc. I'll burn him in effigy.  Sign Witkowski/Booth level players to low salary one year contracts and let the kids compete for the jobs.  If they show they're ready, put them on the team over the vets, otherwise the old guy gets an NHL job for awhile until someone pushes past them.  Any signings need to be placeholders who are easily waived.

[Dabura 12,207]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

This. We've seen "No Cap" Holland be successful. We've seen "Hold on to the Streak" Holland fail. What we haven't seen yet is "Rebuild" Holland. Many seem to assume he will fail based on the second. It seems to me that replacing him with anyone else at this point wouldn't be anymore of a guarantee of success than giving "Rebuild" Holland a chance to see what he can do.

38 minutes ago, kliq said:

To be fair, we also saw "re-build on the fly" Holland succeed between '02 and '08.

Ultimately, it's all going to come down to drafting.

My biggest gripe with Holland is that his scouting and drafting machinery hasn't produced a single high-end NHL defenseman since Niklas Kronwall, who was drafted 18 years ago. My second-biggest gripe with Holland is that his scouting and drafting machinery hasn't produced a cornerstone player since the Datsyuk and Zetterberg home run picks of 1998 and 1999, respectively.

That, more than anything else, is what concerns me about Holland handling a rebuild, where scouting and drafting is everything. For years now we've heard Holland say that "there's no hockey store" and that "this is a draft-and-develop league." Well, money-where-your-mouth-is time is here.

The good news: our five most recent first selections -- Mantha, Larkin, Svechnikov, Cholowski, Rasmussen -- were decent-to-excellent choices, Athanasiou was a steal, Bertuzzi's looking like he was worth that 2nd-round pick, and Hronek has been awesome for two straight seasons now. Also: 11(+?) picks in the upcoming draft and 10(+?) picks in the 2019 draft is huge.

But, as Holland and Draper and everyone has said, this organization needs home run selections. If we get a couple over the next couple of drafts, Holland is golden. If we don't, then four years is probably the upper limit on how much time Holland has left as GM of the Red Wings.

[xault 272]

20 hours ago, Wing Across The Pond said:

At that time the Tigers were a WS calibre team. They were stacked themselves. The bullpen was mad with JV leading, Max Scherzer, then some younger studs. I mean... as an owner he would have been mad not to focus on getting them a win. Now that time has passed, they're going full rebuild. I don't think it proves he concentrated on the Tigers over the Wings any more that saying when the Wings had Yzerman and Fedorov and other generational talents he concentrated on them more than the Tigers. Basically if there's not much to work with, focus on where there is

never mind I missed read.

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by xault

[chaps80 1,591]

15 hours ago, Dabura said:

Meanwhile, in Vegas...

 

LOL Nice poke check Jones. Hasek wouldn’t have even let him get a shot off.

[chaps80 1,591]

11 hours ago, MileHighWingsGuy said:

It just buys Holland another 3-4 years of incompetence (and bad contracts). I firmly believe we are 2-3 years away, after Holland is let go.

Yep. This thread dissapoints. Some of you are actually good with Holland staying on another 3-4 years? Even if you don’t think there’s anyone better available, it’s not a reason to hang onto him He’s had 20! years as GM, time for new blood.

And Blash? He’s had enough time to show he’s way in over his head in the NHL. Leafs/Wings games are always entertaining because I get to see Babcock school him hard. He’s 5 steps behind before the anthem starts.

[13dangledangle 965]

12 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Yep. This thread dissapoints. Some of you are actually good with Holland staying on another 3-4 years? Even if you don’t think there’s anyone better available, it’s not a reason to hang onto him He’s had 20! years as GM, time for new blood.

And Blash? He’s had enough time to show he’s way in over his head in the NHL. Leafs/Wings games are always entertaining because I get to see Babcock school him hard. He’s 5 steps behind before the anthem starts.

Blashill sucks and should be indeed fired...Holland I'm fine with seeing get a chance at rebuilding, I think he was a little late to the show in admitting we're rebuilding but I am interested in seeing what he can do with it.  How he goes down in hockey history depends on how he handles this, I think he deserves this shot....BUT go year by year and still try for Stevie wonder in a year-because that would be the feel good story of the year

[AtlantaHotWings 987]

1 hour ago, 13dangledangle said:

Blashill sucks and should be indeed fired...Holland I'm fine with seeing get a chance at rebuilding, I think he was a little late to the show in admitting we're rebuilding but I am interested in seeing what he can do with it.  How he goes down in hockey history depends on how he handles this, I think he deserves this shot....BUT go year by year and still try for Stevie wonder in a year-because that would be the feel good story of the year

As much as I would love to see Stevie come home I realistically don't see it happening. First he has built up a dynamo down in FL and should be competing for a cup for bit of time. Second he comes home and fails he has the chance of tarnishing his image.

How would you like to be the guy who fires the captain ?

[LeftWinger 4,961]

5 hours ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

As much as I would love to see Stevie come home I realistically don't see it happening. First he has built up a dynamo down in FL and should be competing for a cup for bit of time. Second he comes home and fails he has the chance of tarnishing his image.

How would you like to be the guy who fires the captain ?

Which is the same reason Alan Trammel should have never been Tigers manager when he was.

I'll give Holland his shot this summer and next if they tank it again, but he better not do no "experimental" picks in the first 3 rounds. Draft what we need and draft the best player at that position of need. Put a 12M percent effort on signing JT, if he shows interest, stop at nothing to do so. If we legit lose out again (like Suter) then so bet it. But the 7 picks in the three rounds need to be rock solid and challenge the vets for spots all within 2-4 years. 1st rounder's need to be here within 2 years.

But he needs to get rid of the coaching staff. Don't wait one more year to honor a contract...

Edited April 2, 2018 by LeftWinger

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On a staleness rating, whos voice is staler? 2015 Babcock or 2018 Blashill?

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

8 hours ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

As much as I would love to see Stevie come home I realistically don't see it happening. First he has built up a dynamo down in FL and should be competing for a cup for bit of time. Second he comes home and fails he has the chance of tarnishing his image.

How would you like to be the guy who fires the captain ?

It would probably be Holland as Vice President at that point. And I don't think Yzerman would fail. Without the whole "streak" thing anymore, he could pretty much do what he did in Tampa.

[chaps80 1,591]

Should the Wings go after Quenneville if he is let go?

https://news.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/rumor-arguably-the-nhl-s-best-coach-will-be-a-free-agent-this-summer?ref=jo

"Will this be Joel Quenneville's last week as the head coach of the Chicago Blackhawks organization?" Needless to say this is the type of question that could cause a great deal of controversy and that is exactly what it did when the answers began to pour out from the panelists. 

First up was former NHL player David Poulin.

"Definitely not should, but I think it will be," said Poulin. "He's has such a great run and he's won his three cups and it may be of his choice... that he knows he's gotten out of these guys what he could." 

"He's pulled everything he could of out of his trick bag and he's head a great run as a coach. But I think it's a defined term job and that term may be up."

Up next was another former National Hockey League player in Jeff O'Neil.

"I think it's his last week and he should want it that way," began O'Neil. "He's one of the few coaches in the National Hockey League that a general manager may fire their current coach to get Joel Quenneville into the situation. It's been a great run in Chicago but it's probably time to switch it up and go somewhere else."

Last and definitely not least was TSN insider Bob McKenzie. While the answers from the first two could potentially have been dismissed as pure speculation, and while McKenzie himself is almost certainly speculating here, the message takes on a different tone when someone of McKenzie's stature makes this kind of a statement.

"I'll make it unanimous, I hope I'm wrong but it kind of feels like the last week. You feel like something has got to give in Chicago, I'm not sure that it should be the coach or that the coach would necessarily make that big of a difference. But nevertheless you feel like something has got to happen there."

McKenzie's comments are particular interesting because they appear to hint at the fact that perhaps it should be someone else who heads out the door in Chicago. Now that may or may not have been what McKenzie was implying here but if it indeed was what he was trying to say I would be inclined to agree. 

It's no secret that Chicago Blackhawks general manager Stan Bowman and Quenneville have butted heads on a number of occasions, some have even suggested that the two men genuinely despise one another, and that seems to have been amplified in a big way this season. Quenneville expressed displeasure at the trade of veteran defenseman Niklas Hjalmarsson and the trade of Artemi Panarin for Brandon Saad is also rumored to have rubbed members of the Blackhawks locker room the wrong way. 

[chaps80 1,591]

9 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

It would probably be Holland as Vice President at that point. And I don't think Yzerman would fail. Without the whole "streak" thing anymore, he could pretty much do what he did in Tampa.

Be nice if we could get him before the draft, but obv not. This is a huge draft coming up for the Wings future, and I truly worry about Holland making the best picks possible. Obv if they end up picking first overall, Dahlin is a no brainer. He couldn't mess that up. But other than that, you never know wtf he's thinking. All I know is D and goaltending should be stocked up as much as possible. Goalie depth in the org is very thin right now, especially.

Signed:

 Jimmy Howard (G)

 Jared Coreau (G)

 Tom McCollum (G)

 Matej Machovsky  (G)

  Kaden Fulcher (G)

Unsigned:

Joren van Pottelberghe (G)

 Filip Larsson (G)

 Keith Petruzzelli (G)

 Chase Perry (G)

After Howard, who is a viable NHL option currently? Coreau and McCollum are career minor leaguers. Machovsky is solid, but is he even sticking around? Larsson and Petruzzelli are the best prospects after that. Fulcher and VP are maybes. Perry sucks.

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Be nice if we could get him before the draft, but obv not. This is a huge draft coming up for the Wings future, and I truly worry about Holland making the best picks possible. Obv if they end up picking first overall, Dahlin is a no brainer. He couldn't mess that up. But other than that, you never know wtf he's thinking. All I know is D and goaltending should be stocked up as much as possible. Goalie depth in the org is very thin right now, especially.

After Howard, who is a viable NHL option currently? Coreau and McCollum are career minor leaguers. Machovsky is solid, but is he even sticking around? Larsson and Petruzzelli are the best prospects after that. Fulcher and VP are maybes. Perry sucks.

I completely disagree that our goaltending depth is thin. That is by far our most stacked position in my opinion. Larsson and Petruzzelli are very good goaltender prospects, both with the ceiling to become NHL starters. Van Pottelberghe, Machovsky and Fulcher all have potential as well. You need one of these guys to pan out. That's it.

We will have two 1st's, two 2nd's, three 3rd's, a 4th, two 6th's, and a 7th, once the Flyers officially make the playoffs. Hopefully we will acquire another pick or two this summer. I personally wouldn't use a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick on a goaltender, unless one really drops to us in the 3rd, the way Petruzzelli did last year. If we use one of our 6th's or 7th on a goaltender, that's fine. But it shouldn't be a priority in my opinion.

We need to stock up on defensemen and centers mostly, but I'd put priority on wingers (right shooting) over goaltenders as well. Goaltending should be the last of this teams concerns.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

4 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Should the Wings go after Quenneville if he is let go?

Yes. That would be wise.

3 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Be nice if we could get him before the draft, but obv not. This is a huge draft coming up for the Wings future, and I truly worry about Holland making the best picks possible. Obv if they end up picking first overall, Dahlin is a no brainer. He couldn't mess that up. But other than that, you never know wtf he's thinking. All I know is D and goaltending should be stocked up as much as possible. Goalie depth in the org is very thin right now, especially.

After Howard, who is a viable NHL option currently? Coreau and McCollum are career minor leaguers. Machovsky is solid, but is he even sticking around? Larsson and Petruzzelli are the best prospects after that. Fulcher and VP are maybes. Perry sucks.

The WIngs will have a high enough pick, that unless KH goes off the reservation, they will get a really good player. Can't really mess that first one up.

I disagree about stocking up on goalies. I wouldn't even use a pick on one until at least the 4th round. There are too many decent G available in free agency every year to waste a pick on drafting one.

[krsmith17 7,191]

27 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Yes. That would be wise.

The WIngs will have a high enough pick, that unless KH goes off the reservation, they will get a really good player. Can't really mess that first one up.

I disagree about stocking up on goalies. I wouldn't even use a pick on one until at least the 4th round. There are too many decent G available in free agency every year to waste a pick on drafting one.

As it stands right now, we could end up as low as 9th overall. That is exactly where we picked last year, and Holland (in my opinion) managed to screw up that pick, passing on Vilardi. I know this is a deeper top 10 than last year, but it is possible if we end up in the 6-9 range, he could drop the ball (again)... I really hope we end up with a top 2 pick, because I don't think there's any way he screws up either of those picks...

[chaps80 1,591]

9 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I completely disagree that our goaltending depth is thin. That is by far our most stacked position in my opinion. Larsson and Petruzzelli are very good goaltender prospects, both with the ceiling to become NHL starters. Van Pottelberghe, Machovsky and Fulcher all have potential as well. You need one of these guys to pan out. That's it.

We will have two 1st's, two 2nd's, three 3rd's, a 4th, two 6th's, and a 7th, once the Flyers officially make the playoffs. Hopefully we will acquire another pick or two this summer. I personally wouldn't use a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round pick on a goaltender, unless one really drops to us in the 3rd, the way Petruzzelli did last year. If we use one of our 6th's or 7th on a goaltender, that's fine. But it shouldn't be a priority in my opinion.

We need to stock up on defensemen and centers mostly, but I'd put priority on wingers (right shooting) over goaltenders as well. Goaltending should be the last of this teams concerns.

It’s pretty thin. Cut out Howard, Coreau, McCollum from that list to start. Machovsky would be next in line, and he is a solid goalie, but I thought I read something about him being a bit pissed off being stuck in Toledo and might just head back home if things don’t change (they have changed now as he’s in GR for good i’m sure). Can’t find anything on it though, so I guess it was someone else. Larsson is very promising as well, great numbers this season. After that it drops off. Petruzzelli and Fulcher are a ways away, and if they bust out, there’s gotta be someone else in the pipeline. Should draft a goalie every year, whatever the round you feel like taking one at, because they’re so unpredictable (see Mrazek and Coreau). I wouldn’t go using a 1-3 rounder, or maybe not even a 4th on one, but taking one to add to the depth chart is always a good idea.  

I figure for next season,  the team signs a cheap UFA to backup Howard, sends Coreau back to GR, lets McCollum walk, and Machovsky backs up Coreau, or wise versa. After that, who knows. 

D is a bigger priority though I will agree.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

41 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

It’s pretty thin. Cut out Howard, Coreau, McCollum from that list to start. Machovsky would be next in line, and he is a solid goalie, but I thought I read something about him being a bit pissed off being stuck in Toledo and might just head back home if things don’t change (they have changed now as he’s in GR for good i’m sure). Can’t find anything on it though, so I guess it was someone else. Larsson is very promising as well, great numbers this season. After that it drops off. Petruzzelli and Fulcher are a ways away, and if they bust out, there’s gotta be someone else in the pipeline. Should draft a goalie every year, whatever the round you feel like taking one at, because they’re so unpredictable (see Mrazek and Coreau). I wouldn’t go using a 1-3 rounder, or maybe not even a 4th on one, but taking one to add to the depth chart is always a good idea.  

I figure for next season,  the team signs a cheap UFA to backup Howard, sends Coreau back to GR, lets McCollum walk, and Machovsky backs up Coreau, or wise versa. After that, who knows. 

D is a bigger priority though I will agree.

There is only 1 NHL G on your list. Larsson and Truz may be one day, but Coreau and McCollum don't belong anywhere near an NHL ice surface. As for Machovsky, I've only ever seen him at Training Camp. Didn't really impress me at all. I don't see him ever being anything more than a mediocre AHL goalie.

The smart course would be to sign a veteran backup this summer. And roll with Howard until the TDL.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Howard = Average

Outside of him there's nothing to get excited about besides Larsson.

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 hours ago, chaps80 said:

It’s pretty thin. Cut out Howard, Coreau, McCollum from that list to start. Machovsky would be next in line, and he is a solid goalie, but I thought I read something about him being a bit pissed off being stuck in Toledo and might just head back home if things don’t change (they have changed now as he’s in GR for good i’m sure). Can’t find anything on it though, so I guess it was someone else. Larsson is very promising as well, great numbers this season. After that it drops off. Petruzzelli and Fulcher are a ways away, and if they bust out, there’s gotta be someone else in the pipeline. Should draft a goalie every year, whatever the round you feel like taking one at, because they’re so unpredictable (see Mrazek and Coreau). I wouldn’t go using a 1-3 rounder, or maybe not even a 4th on one, but taking one to add to the depth chart is always a good idea.  

I figure for next season,  the team signs a cheap UFA to backup Howard, sends Coreau back to GR, lets McCollum walk, and Machovsky backs up Coreau, or wise versa. After that, who knows. 

D is a bigger priority though I will agree.

Again, I completely disagree. We're deepest in goal and on the wings. There's no question about it. And like I said, I'd argue that adding some right-handed wingers is more important than goalies at this point. We have two potential starters in the pipeline (Larsson / Petruzzelli) and another one or two with an outside chance (Fulcher / Van Pottelberghe). We only need one of those guys to pan out. Imagine if we had 4 or 5 potential top six centers, or 6 or 7 potential top three defensemen. We don't have close to that.

I'm not in any way saying we're loaded in goal, and I'm well aware that none of these guys are close, but whoever we could potentially draft this year wouldn't be any closer. Like I said, I'm okay with drafting one in the later rounds, but drafting another goaltender should be far from a priority.

[chaps80 1,591]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

There is only 1 NHL G on your list. Larsson and Truz may be one day, but Coreau and McCollum don't belong anywhere near an NHL ice surface. As for Machovsky, I've only ever seen him at Training Camp. Didn't really impress me at all. I don't see him ever being anything more than a mediocre AHL goalie.

The smart course would be to sign a veteran backup this summer. And roll with Howard until the TDL.

That’s exactly what I was saying. Howard is it right now. The rest either can’t hack it or aren’t near ready for the NHL. So they need to sign a UFA backup for Howard, and leave Coreau in GR for good. Or get rid of him, whatever. Machovsky should be the first call up next season.

[krsmith17 7,191]

 

[hankzet40 233]

https://twitter.com/DetroitRedWings/status/982736654191427586

#RedWings Governor Christopher Ilitch announces that executive vice president and general manager Ken Holland has been signed to a two-year contract extension.

Edited April 7, 2018 by hankzet40

[krsmith17 7,191]

Beat me to it hankzet.

Edited April 7, 2018 by krsmith17