Holland and Blashill expected to return

[krsmith17 7,191]

17 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Glad I'm not the first to mention this.

Should Holland have started the rebuild sooner instead of holding on to the playoff streak? Sure, I won't disagree with anyone who wants to argue that point. However, all of you who see Hollands name and automatically scream about the sky falling, cannot claim these last 2 seasons of rebuilding haven't been wildly successful on his part.

• Tatar = 1st, 2nd, 3rd (fantastic haul for a middle 6 forward)
• Mrazek = 3rd, 3rd (great haul for a backup goalie that could be in Europe next year)
• Sheahan = 3rd (sucks we couldn't get more, but his value was at an all time low and we needed the cap for AA)
• Ott = 6th (fair)
• Vanek = 3rd (fair)
• Smith = 2nd, 3rd (highway robbery with Smith in the minors screwing up NYR's books)
• Jurco = 3rd (fantastic haul for an AHL/NHL tweener)
• Datsyuk = 2nd (between a rock n a hard place, traded out Chychrun for Cholo and got the cap space, fair)
• Kindl = 6th (thrilled just to get anything)

I'm not at all mad about a single trade he's done since the rebuild started. And the Mrazek, Tatar, and Smith trades have me particularly happy. For a man who's never had to rebuild before he's doing grade A quality work so far. If you need every roster player to be traded in order to be happy, I think you're being a bit unrealistic with your expectations.

Where I do draw issue, and where I think most of this boards frustrations truly lie, is with Blashill coming back. The whole "fresh voice" thing hasn't worked at all. Young players who had bright futures under Babs almost immediately regressed, and he's getting subpar performances from our vets as well (though aging plays a role with some).

If we should damn anyone right now it's Blash, and if you wanna put Holland on blast, blast him for keeping Blash, otherwise Holland has been fantastic the last 2 seasons.

Hronek was a part of that Datsyuk trade as well. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Hronek was a part of that Datsyuk trade as well. 

AKA the 2nd I listed

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

AKA the 2nd I listed

My bad. Completely missed that... Well, yes I agree. Holland has done a great job over the past couple years. He's saying all the right things, hopefully he puts those words into action. Continue the youth movement.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Just now, krsmith17 said:

My bad. Completely missed that... Well, yes I agree. Holland has done a great job over the past couple years. He's saying all the right things, hopefully he puts those words into action. Continue the youth movement.

Bertuzzi not going down to GR for the playoff run. According to Holland he wants him to stay in Detroit and live in the gym for the next 6 months. A 210 lb Bertuzzi would be great for the youth movement.

[Dabura 12,207]

2 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Where I do draw issue, and where I think most of this boards frustrations truly lie, is with Blashill coming back. The whole "fresh voice" thing hasn't worked at all. Young players who had bright futures under Babs almost immediately regressed, and he's getting subpar performances from our vets as well (though aging plays a role with some).

If we should damn anyone right now it's Blash, and if you wanna put Holland on blast, blast him for keeping Blash, otherwise Holland has been fantastic the last 2 seasons.

I've actually warmed to Blashill a bit. Larkin had a solid year, took a big step forward. Mantha had a solid year. Bertuzzi's showing a lot of promise. Frk performed about as well as we could've realistically hoped he would. None of us liked that Svechnikov was basically glued to the bench for his first few games with the Wings this season, but maybe that was the right way to ease him in; he looked comfortable by the end of his stay and was starting to produce. Glendening scored 11 goals and finished with just shy of 20 points. Nielsen's numbers were disappointing, but he was used in a shutdown role, which may or may not have been optimal deployment on Blashill's part. Zetterberg was Zetterberg. Helm and Abdelkader were Helm and Abdelkader. AA produced like a middle/bottom-six winger, which is what he is right now. I guess you could say Nyquist and Tatar regressed, but I'm not convinced either one would be much better on a different team. Tatar hasn't really done anything as a Knight.

Our defense group is crap, but I'm not sure many coaches would get more out of it. Ericsson was good this season, by Ericsson standards. Kronwall put up close to 30 points. DeKeyser has been slowly deteriorating, I don't how much of that is Blashill. Green was Green. Daley puts up more points if Blashill uses him on the PP more often, but the Ericsson-Daley pairing was pretty good for us. Jensen was Jensen, a bottom-pairing 27-year-old defenseman without much scoring upside. Hicketts looked good and it seems like Blashill's been very clear with him on what he needs to do if he wants to stick in the NHL.

Team sucks at making passes through neutral ice and winning games in OT and scoring on the power play with any kind of regularity. But, overall, I'm not sure Blashill is really part of the problem right now.

[krsmith17 7,191]

21 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I've actually warmed to Blashill a bit. Larkin had a solid year, took a big step forward. Mantha had a solid year. Bertuzzi's showing a lot of promise. Frk performed about as well as we could've realistically hoped he would. None of us liked that Svechnikov was basically glued to the bench for his first few games with the Wings this season, but maybe that was the right way to ease him in; he looked comfortable by the end of his stay and was starting to produce. Glendening scored 11 goals and finished with just shy of 20 points. Nielsen's numbers were disappointing, but he was used in a shutdown role, which may or may not have been optimal deployment on Blashill's part. Zetterberg was Zetterberg. Helm and Abdelkader were Helm and Abdelkader. AA produced like a middle/bottom-six winger, which is what he is right now. I guess you could say Nyquist and Tatar regressed, but I'm not convinced either one would be much better on a different team. Tatar hasn't really done anything as a Knight.

Our defense group is crap, but I'm not sure many coaches would get more out of it. Ericsson was good this season, by Ericsson standards. Kronwall put up close to 30 points. DeKeyser has been slowly deteriorating, I don't how much of that is Blashill. Green was Green. Daley puts up more points if Blashill uses him on the PP more often, but the Ericsson-Daley pairing was pretty good for us. Jensen was Jensen, a bottom-pairing 27-year-old defenseman without much scoring upside. Hicketts looked good and it seems like Blashill's been very clear with him on what he needs to do if he wants to stick in the NHL.

Team sucks at making passes through neutral ice and winning games in OT and scoring on the power play with any kind of regularity. But, overall, I'm not sure Blashill is really part of the problem right now.

I agree. I was in the process of writing much of the same, but had to run out midway through my rant. Came back and you had basically summed up what I was going to say.

My biggest beef with Blashill at the beginning of this year and last year, was his insistence on constant line shuffling and not playing the kids enough. The latter half of this season, he stuck with lines that were clicking and seemed to have given the kids a bit of a longer leash (for the most part). I'd still like to see him get away from using scorers, like Frk and Svechnikov in a 4th line role with Glendening, and form more of a prototypical checking 4th line, with Helm and Abdelkader. That's basically been my only issue with him the past couple months though. Well, that and the stupid faces he's constantly making behind the bench...

I'm okay with Blashill coming back to finish out his contract (one year remaining). Worst case scenario, we're slightly worse than we would have been under a better coach, get a better draft pick, and move on from him after next season (or sooner). Best case scenario, he continues learning and progressing at the NHL level, the kids take another huge step, and we extend him. I'm okay with either scenario really, but like you, I don't think Blashill is this team's biggest issue, and certainly not the only cause of the team's demise, like so many fans make it seem...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

For the record, I'm not anti-Blashill, I'm pro-Babcock. There's a difference.

[krsmith17 7,191]

31 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

For the record, I'm not anti-Blashill, I'm pro-Babcock. There's a difference.

F*** Babcock! He's a Leaf...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Just now, krsmith17 said:

F*** Babcock! He's a Leaf...

BB come back

[Dabura 12,207]

17 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I agree. I was in the process of writing much of the same, but had to run out midway through my rant. Came back and you had basically summed up what I was going to say.

Heh, sorry 'bout that. "Great minds" and all that.

17 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

My biggest beef with Blashill at the beginning of this year and last year, was his insistence on constant line shuffling and not playing the kids enough. The latter half of this season, he stuck with lines that were clicking and seemed to have given the kids a bit of a longer leash (for the most part). I'd still like to see him get away from using scorers, like Frk and Svechnikov in a 4th line role with Glendening, and form more of a prototypical checking 4th line, with Helm and Abdelkader. That's basically been my only issue with him the past couple months though. Well, that and the stupid faces he's constantly making behind the bench...

I'm okay with Blashill coming back to finish out his contract (one year remaining). Worst case scenario, we're slightly worse than we would have been under a better coach, get a better draft pick, and move on from him after next season (or sooner). Best case scenario, he continues learning and progressing at the NHL level, the kids take another huge step, and we extend him. I'm okay with either scenario really, but like you, I don't think Blashill is this team's biggest issue, and certainly not the only cause of the team's demise, like so many fans make it seem...

Yup.

I'm even ok with Blashill not running a fourth line of Abdelkader-Glendening-Helm. The more time Helm and Abdelkader spend on a bad Wings team's fourth line, the harder it'll be to 1) get our money's worth out of their contracts and 2) trade them.

[AtlantaHotWings 984]

hmm I could be wrong about Blash you can't be a crap coach and get to do this kind of thing RIGHT?

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2018/04/red_wings_jeff_blashill_will_c.html

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

24 minutes ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

hmm I could be wrong about Blash you can't be a crap coach and get to do this kind of thing RIGHT?

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2018/04/red_wings_jeff_blashill_will_c.html

 

Not trying to be a downer, but the 2017 USA roster featured big name players like:  Anders Bjork, Cal Petersen, Daniel Brickley, JT Compher, and Andrew Copp.

The article states they also would have liked to have had Glendening on the team, but he was injured.

Just saying the WC is not at all comprehensive, and doesn't feature by any means the best a country has to offer, including coaching.

The WC is a waste of time IMO, maybe it will become more important with the roster changes to the olympics though.

 

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

What a Red Wings front office expansion could look like and why it's necessary - The Athletic

Quote

A couple of years ago, while doing an interview for a book project, Toronto coach Mike Babcock shared why he stressed to GM Lou Lamoriello that the front office should constantly be looking to add talent to an already large group. Babcock’s Maple Leafs weren’t the Stanley Cup contenders they are now, but he knew it was coming and he realized, with that, came an exodus of talent.

“I keep saying to Lou, ‘We have to build a bigger power team because they’re going to take our people,’” Babcock said that morning. “Build a power team.”

He wasn’t talking about on the ice. He was talking about off it. And when you look at the front-office team assembled in Toronto, the Maple Leafs have certainly done that. There’s experience in Lamoriello. Kyle Dubas is one of hockey’s sharpest young minds and forward-thinkers. Brandon Pridham is a salary-cap savant; Mark Hunter an elite evaluator of talent.

Basically Babcock watched the Red Wings get stripped of all their front office staff and scouts by other teams poaching talent from a successful organization, and he warned Lou to prepare for that kind of exodus if the leafs start winning.

Pretty interesting stuff. This is probably one of the downfalls of the Wings. Not being prepared enough to combat the poaching and stealing of personnel off the ice.

 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

4 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

What a Red Wings front office expansion could look like and why it's necessary - The Athletic

Basically Babcock watched the Red Wings get stripped of all their front office staff and scouts by other teams poaching talent from a successful organization, and he warned Lou to prepare for that kind of exodus if the leafs start winning.

Pretty interesting stuff. This is probably one of the downfalls of the Wings. Not being prepared enough to combat the poaching and stealing of personnel off the ice.

 

Considering the Leafs did it to us (Babcock) and NJ (Lamoriello) you would think they would already know this. "Don't let other teams do to us what we did to other teams." - Babcock. Hypocrites. That's like a burglar installing a surveillance system on his own house.

[Krayzie_Bone 58]

I was excited for next year hoping for a new coach with a new approach. Now I do not even plan on watching them much at all next season. Reminds me so much of the Tigers with Ausmus. For 3 all the experts kept saying Ausmus was not to blame and the team got worse every year. The red wings defense is a joke they turn the puck over all the time. After three years of this Blashall has to go. I barely watched this year so it will not be hard to find something else to do.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Are people here really getting upset with guys leaving for new jobs where they're getting more money and a promotion?  It's part of business.

[Learn2LuvIt 245]

16 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

What a Red Wings front office expansion could look like and why it's necessary - The Athletic

Basically Babcock watched the Red Wings get stripped of all their front office staff and scouts by other teams poaching talent from a successful organization, and he warned Lou to prepare for that kind of exodus if the leafs start winning.

Pretty interesting stuff. This is probably one of the downfalls of the Wings. Not being prepared enough to combat the poaching and stealing of personnel off the ice.

 

You can't really prepare for this unless you take the approach that you're willing to always pay more and always willing to match promotions with the team attempting to poaching your talent.  It's common in most every business and a side effect of success. 

[NerveDamage 4,176]

2 more years! 

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

10 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

Are people here really getting upset with guys leaving for new jobs where they're getting more money and a promotion?  It's part of business.

Who's getting upset?

1 hour ago, Learn2LuvIt said:

You can't really prepare for this unless you take the approach that you're willing to always pay more and always willing to match promotions with the team attempting to poaching your talent.  It's common in most every business and a side effect of success. 

That's not what Babcock is suggesting. He's suggesting the Leafs should grow the total number of staff larger than normal and swell their front office numbers. This is so when the exodus inevitably occurs there are lots guys who have learned from Hunter, Dubas, etc. that can step up.

[Learn2LuvIt 245]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Who's getting upset?

That's not what Babcock is suggesting. He's suggesting the Leafs should grow the total number of staff larger than normal and swell their front office numbers. This is so when the exodus inevitably occurs there are lots guys who have learned from Hunter, Dubas, etc. that can step up.

That's a nice luxury to have since they are owned by primarily by R&B Ontario Teachers Pension Plan.  Most private owners or ownership groups might beg to differ on the amount of $$ being paid for an over abundance of front office staff.

[Barrie 900]

I'm happy Holland is back. I agree with others, I like the trades he's made the last couple years. I don't have a problem with him not starting the rebuild sooner. When you have Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Kronwall on your roster, you do what you can to do to make the playoffs and win. As soon as Datsyuk retired, the rebuild began. After 2 years, Holland's done a good job unloading disappointing players (Tatar, Smith, Mrazek), and getting draft picks.

I'm fine with Blashill back. We're not ready to contend yet, so there's no rush to bring in a big named coach yet. We'll see in the next two years if Blash is the guy or not, while we rebuild, to see if he's the coach to take us to the next level.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

18 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

Are people here really getting upset with guys leaving for new jobs where they're getting more money and a promotion?  It's part of business.

Not getting upset. I am a Pro-Business, Anti-Regulation, Capitalist Pig. I just believe in ethical business practices, and that companies should have some degree of morality. And I hate poaching and hypocrisy.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Well, if an employee is under contract, then the team has the right to deny permission to discuss another job.  If the employee's contract is up, there's no moral, ethical, or business related reason for other potential employees to speak to him or her about another job.  It's not poaching or hypocrisy, it's business, especially when there's such a small number of people in said business and who are good at their jobs.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Well, if an employee is under contract, then the team has the right to deny permission to discuss another job.  If the employee's contract is up, there's no moral, ethical, or business related reason for other potential employees to speak to him or her about another job.  It's not poaching or hypocrisy, it's business, especially when there's such a small number of people in said business and who are good at their jobs.

Again, as I've had to clarify this once already in this thread, Babcock's statements have nothing to do with poaching/contracts/promotions.

He simply wants to hire more people.

[AtlantaHotWings 984]

Like when Stevie was thinking/offering Ryan Martin Asst GM and he grabbed Verbeek.

Did Nill take someone also?

Maybe because Babs saw it first hand with the Wings and wants to avoid organizational holes?

https://detroit.sbnation.com/2010/6/8/1507880/wings-scout-pat-verbeek-hired-by