2018 NHL Stanley Cup Playoffs Thread

[chaps80 1,591]

1 minute ago, Xitium said:

I dont know, voodoo. The same can be said for Marchessault.

Jokes.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

53 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Not just because of the last Canadian team. Just not a lot of people care about a team in Nevada and a team in Florida playing in the Final. 

They had a favourable draft format. Each team could protect 11 players from their rosters. Gee, thanks Gary. At least in the last expansion they could protect 15 players. Vegas would NOT be where they are had they used that same format. They got players teams wanted to and would have kept had those 4 extra slots have been open. Take away Marchy, Karlsson, Theodore, etc. maybe even Fleury, had the Pens chosen the alternate 2 goalie 10 skater format. The problem I have with drafts like that is those are other teams players, many they have drafted and developed themselves, which is crucial in the cap era. Some rich ******* throws $500 million bucks at the league and gets to take one player from each team? Why? He had no issue signing Shipshayev or whatever his name was, he can go find more of his own players. 

An underdog story? Hahaha More like a welcome gift from the NHL.  I’m not being salty, the whole thing is an embarrassment to the league. But you go ahead and enjoy it. Wonder what the draft rules for Seattle will be? 7 total skaters and no goalie that can be protected? 

 

24 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

I don’t see how. They got a great roster out of the draft. Not only Cup winning vets, but some great young players, and other young guys due to break out anytime, like Karlsson, and did he ever. They also got lucky with Subban when Fleury went down, but that was just a waiver pickup that happened to work out after Boston gave up on him. Got a bunch of assets from teams too that they used some of to beef up what they already had. 

I dunno how some can’t see that this expansion draft would NEVER fail with how tight the league is cap wise and the amount of protection slots given to each team. Making the playoffs was the goal at the very least. 

That’s not just other GMs faults when they’re hands are forced by 11 protection slots. Had they had the extra four, none of what you posted would matter. 

I didn’t know the Pens gave anything up to Vegas for them to take Fleury. I thought he was the goalie they wanted all along. Why would they have to give them a 2nd? 

Youre trolling. No one called Vegas to even glimpse the playoffs this year, including yourself. Youre arguing this all after the fact just to argue.

GMs gifted Vegas that roster and pick spread with their panic trades leading into the expansion. Its well documented and talked about. And even then their roster isnt that good on paper. Their season has been a product of MAF, Gallants intense system and relaxed coaching, and a group of players with a chip on their shoulders playing an 110% team first game at 110%.

Its a great underdog story, and theres already talks it will be made into a movie if they win it all. This is unprecendented in the world of sports.

Seattles probably not goona be as good because i think a lot of GMs are learning their lesson right now bc of how stupid they look.

Youre either trolling or clueless. Im not gonna engage either.

Peace.

[chaps80 1,591]

28 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

 

Youre trolling. No one called Vegas to even glimpse the playoffs this year, including yourself. Youre arguing this all after the fact just to argue.

GMs gifted Vegas that roster and pick spread with their panic trades leading into the expansion. Its well documented and talked about. And even then their roster isnt that good on paper. Their season has been a product of MAF, Gallants intense system and relaxed coaching, and a group of players with a chip on their shoulders playing an 110% team first game at 110%.

Its a great underdog story, and theres already talks it will be made into a movie if they win it all. This is unprecendented in the world of sports.

Seattles probably not goona be as good because i think a lot of GMs are learning their lesson right now bc of how stupid they look.

Youre either trolling or clueless. Im not gonna engage either.

Peace.

A movie? Great. Not like we don't already have five mostly s***ty movies about the "Miracle" USA olympic team. Guess as long as they don't blow it out of proportion and overdo it through the years like they have with that, it might be ok. It was one game where they beat the Russians by one goal with Tretiak playing one period. Fun story, but nothing that's really worth rehashing over and over.

[chaps80 1,591]

I wonder why Colombus sucked for so long after expansion? And why SJ an Ottawa won like 8 games their first seasons? Even Minnesota, who got their s*** together fairly quickly, have never been to the Finals. What makes Vegas so different that they are the exception and not the norm? Better draft choices overall due to less protection slots for teams, and GMs having to scramble to try to work around it and making some mistakes. Any way you look at it, those extra protection slots in previous drafts, and the huge jump in side deals in this draft because of GMs not being able to use those played a huge role. Expansion teams used to get established teams scraps and worked their way up through drafts and trades. How it should be. Your not going to win a conference title With Ron Tugnutt as your starting goalie, but you can with a guy like Fleury who's now won five of them and three Cups.

[krsmith17 7,191]

11 hours ago, Xitium said:

Its already been announced that Seattle draft would be the same that Vegas got and that Vegas will be protected.

There should definitely be an embarrassment, but that is on the other GMs, not on the expansion draft. GMs gave out NTCs, NMCs and were forced to protect players they probably would not have. 

1) The Florida Panthers traded Reilly Smith in exchange for Vegas selecting Jonathan Marchessault and a fourth-round pick in the 2018 NHL Entry Draft. Florida wanted to lose Smith’s contract, but didn’t want Demers to be claimed.

2) The Pittsburgh Penguins traded their second-round pick in the 2020 NHL Entry Draft in exchange for Vegas selecting Marc-Andre Fleury.

3) The Minnesota Wild traded Alex Tuch in exchange for Vegas selecting Erik Haula and a conditional third-round pick in the 2017 or 2018 NHL Entry Draft. Minnesota wanted to protect Dumba.

4) The Columbus Blue Jackets traded their first-round pick in the 2017 NHL Entry Draft, a second-round pick in the 2019 NHL Entry Draft and David Clarkson in exchange for Vegas selecting William Karlsson. Columbus wanted to protect Korpisalo and Anderson.

This 100%! Especially the bolded. You did forget Anaheim though, who traded Theodore to protect Vatanen. That was probably the dumbest move of all.

11 hours ago, chaps80 said:

I don’t see how. They got a great roster out of the draft. Not only Cup winning vets, but some great young players, and other young guys due to break out anytime, like Karlsson, and did he ever. They also got lucky with Subban when Fleury went down, but that was just a waiver pickup that happened to work out after Boston gave up on him. Got a bunch of assets from teams too that they used some of to beef up what they already had. 

I dunno how some can’t see that this expansion draft would NEVER fail with how tight the league is cap wise and the amount of protection slots given to each team. Making the playoffs was the goal at the very least. 

That’s not just other GMs faults when they’re hands are forced by 11 protection slots. Had they had the extra four, none of what you posted would matter. 

I didn’t know the Pens gave anything up to Vegas for them to take Fleury. I thought he was the goalie they wanted all along. Why would they have to give them a 2nd? 

It was not the league that "gifted" Vegas with a Cup contending team, it was the dumbass GM's that gave away great players to protect mediocre players. There is nothing wrong with the new expansion draft rules, but there won't be any of those stupid side deals when Seattle pick their team. If every team just protected their 7 best forwards, 3 best defensemen and one goalie, and there were no trades to protect additional players, Vegas wouldn't have been half as good as they are. Maybe a playoff team (probably not though), but not a division winner, and definitely not a Stanley Cup finalist (maybe winner).

Why should an expansion team have to be terrible for a decade? That's the dumbest thing ever. The way it's set up now, they should still be bad, just not '74 Capitals bad. I'd put a significant wager that Seattle will have a losing record in their inaugural season, and likely won't make the playoffs. The format will be the same, but the GM's won't make the same dumb mistakes they made last year.

It's really funny that you're acting as if you or anyone in the hockey world seen this coming. Before the season started very few expected Vegas to make the playoffs, let alone win the Cup. They came out of the gate firing on all cylinders and haven't slowed down one bit. After the first month, everyone was saying, they'll come back down to earth by Christmas break. They didn't. Then everyone said this won't last through the All-Star break. It did. Then everyone said playoffs is a completely different game, they won't get out of the first round. They swept them. The Ducks didn't put up much of a fight, they won't get past the Sharks. They beat them in 6. The Sharks are choke artists, there's no way they'll get past the juggernaut Jets. They beat them in 5. The Jets were tired after a 7 game series against the Preds, there's no way they'll beat the Lightning / Capitals in the finals... to be continued...

Unbelievable underdog story. The fact that you're trying to downplay it, or blame the league or whatever is hilarious. 

[Xitium 272]

“Vegas is rigged!” Five guys on the Golden Knights got a point in Game 5. Three of them have played less than 100 NHL games. The other two were Ryan Reaves and Luca Sbisa.

[Mckinley25 677]

I don’t get to watch the games, so what is it about this team?  Well coached?  Drafted brilliantly?  I mean did anyone in the league suspect Karlsson would get 40 goals?

[krsmith17 7,191]

32 minutes ago, Mckinley25 said:

I don’t get to watch the games, so what is it about this team?  Well coached?  Drafted brilliantly?  I mean did anyone in the league suspect Karlsson would get 40 goals?

Very well coached. Gallant will win the Adams by a landslide. It was a combination of McPhee doing a good job selecting some good players and other GM's doing a terrible job giving away better players. On paper, they're not a great team, but they've meshed well since day one and play the game the right way.

No, I don't think anyone could have predicted that sort of production from half their team. Karlsson, Haula, Marchessault, Smith, Perron, the list goes on.

[kliq 3,755]

18 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Very well coached. Gallant will win the Adams by a landslide. It was a combination of McPhee doing a good job selecting some good players and other GM's doing a terrible job giving away better players. On paper, they're not a great team, but they've meshed well since day one and play the game the right way.

No, I don't think anyone could have predicted that sort of production from half their team. Karlsson, Haula, Marchessault, Smith, Perron, the list goes on.

Didn't Florida give Vegas Marchessault if they took Smith?

[amato 3,210]

22 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Very well coached. Gallant will win the Adams by a landslide. It was a combination of McPhee doing a good job selecting some good players and other GM's doing a terrible job giving away better players. On paper, they're not a great team, but they've meshed well since day one and play the game the right way.

No, I don't think anyone could have predicted that sort of production from half their team. Karlsson, Haula, Marchessault, Smith, Perron, the list goes on.

This. I wanted Gallant here when Florida got rid of him... 

Also, Fleury is playing out of his mind in most, if not all, of these post season games. 

 

4 minutes ago, kliq said:

Didn't Florida give Vegas Marchessault if they took Smith?

Yup. Seemed like a dumb decision at the time, and it only seems worse now... 

[krsmith17 7,191]

22 minutes ago, kliq said:

Didn't Florida give Vegas Marchessault if they took Smith?

Yeah, Florida, Columbus, Minnesota and Anaheim made some of the worst "deals" in the expansion draft. They're the reason Vegas are in the position they're in now, not the new expansion protection format.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

They'll win The Cup this year and win the draft lottery for the 2019 draft. Jack Hughes to the Knights.

[Jersey Wing 1,521]

Yzerman vs Gallant, it's but one game away

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

7 hours ago, Mckinley25 said:

I don’t get to watch the games, so what is it about this team?  Well coached?  Drafted brilliantly?  I mean did anyone in the league suspect Karlsson would get 40 goals?

3 reasons: Gallant, coaching, and Gallant.

Vegas has on paper a great goalie with what almost everyone considered a mediocre to low end team in front of him. But Gallant got them to buy into his system and play a complete, hard-working, non-selfish, team game. The fact that many of these players had their former team "pay" to get rid of them probably left some big chips on shoulders too, and I'm sure they all had a huge desire to prove everyone wrong. Gallant has also publicly stated that he does not reprimand his players for mistakes at all. He simply puts it behind them and moves forward. So I'd say he's running a very non-disciplinary style... a players coach. Which is probably how he got them to buy into his system.

His system from what I can tell is a heavy forecheck in the O-zone and a modified trap in the neutral/D-zone. They really dig and try to force turnovers in the O-zone and immedately throw pucks on net once they do get the turnover. It's a fast paced, in your face, offensive style. Then on D they fall back into a trap where they wait for you to make a mistake. As soon as the mistake is made, just like in the o-zone, they pounce and get the puck to the net quickly. Gallant does not slow down the game at all. He's got them working like a machine and it's worked.

[kylee 727]

Ovechkin throwing the body big time right now. Gotta love that from anybody but especially team captain. 

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Please tell me Vasilevskiy wasn't the first round pick that we traded Kyle Quincey for?  

[krsmith17 7,191]

10 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

Please tell me Vasilevskiy wasn't the first round pick that we traded Kyle Quincey for?  

Yes it was, but there's no saying we would have taken Vasilevskiy. Chances are we wouldn't have, but maybe we would have taken Maatta...

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Yes it was, but there's no saying we would have taken Vasilevskiy. Chances are we wouldn't have, but maybe we would have taken Maatta...

Holland wouldn't know a good goalie if one sat on his face.  His only accomplishment in that area was getting Ilitch to open his deep pockets to Hasek and Cujo.  

Look at the crap the Wings have developed at that position with Mrazek, Coreau, and McCollum.  And of course, there's Mr. Average himself, Jimmy Howard.  

[Buppy 1,720]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

3 reasons: Gallant, coaching, and Gallant.

Fluke. Half the team having career/breakout years. I mostly expect they'll regress next year, and wouldn't be at all surprised if they missed the playoffs. Even if you assume that all the players are really as good as they've performed this season, it's still a flukey amount of luck to have them all suddenly "get it" at the same time.

No doubt Gallant is a good coach who well deserves the Adams, and a great deal of credit, but only so much.

8 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, Florida, Columbus, Minnesota and Anaheim made some of the worst "deals" in the expansion draft. They're the reason Vegas are in the position they're in now, not the new expansion protection format.

In fairness to Chaps, many of those deals wouldn't have been made if teams had more protection slots. Take away a few of Schmidt, Miller, Sbisa, Haula, Tuch, Perron, Neal, Karlsson, McNabb, Theodore, or Fluery...hardly a stretch to think Vegas would be drastically worse under the previous expansion format.

Florida is the only team that looks particularly bad. Some look bad in hindsight, but were reasonable enough.

Giving up a 1st and 2nd to get rid of Clarkson is pretty steep (easy to say when it's not my $15 million), but Karlsson had 18g, 50p in 180+ games. No good reason to think he'd be any major loss, and if he'd had another 8g, 25p season it would look like a decent deal to dump some dead weight and protect Anderson.

Haula was nothing special either. Tuch was a good prospect, but not a huge price to protect Dumba.

Anaheim was going to lose a good youngish defenseman no matter what, and it could be argued that all of Fowler, Lindholm, Vatanen, and Manson were as good as Theodore this year. Theodore allowed them to get rid of Stoner. Worth it or not is debatable, but with the defense the Ducks have I don't think they'll miss him too much. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

9 minutes ago, Buppy said:

In fairness to Chaps, many of those deals wouldn't have been made if teams had more protection slots. Take away a few of Schmidt, Miller, Sbisa, Haula, Tuch, Perron, Neal, Karlsson, McNabb, Theodore, or Fluery...hardly a stretch to think Vegas would be drastically worse under the previous expansion format.

Florida is the only team that looks particularly bad. Some look bad in hindsight, but were reasonable enough.

Giving up a 1st and 2nd to get rid of Clarkson is pretty steep (easy to say when it's not my $15 million), but Karlsson had 18g, 50p in 180+ games. No good reason to think he'd be any major loss, and if he'd had another 8g, 25p season it would look like a decent deal to dump some dead weight and protect Anderson.

Haula was nothing special either. Tuch was a good prospect, but not a huge price to protect Dumba.

Anaheim was going to lose a good youngish defenseman no matter what, and it could be argued that all of Fowler, Lindholm, Vatanen, and Manson were as good as Theodore this year. Theodore allowed them to get rid of Stoner. Worth it or not is debatable, but with the defense the Ducks have I don't think they'll miss him too much. 

I never argued otherwise... Obviously the old format was better for previously existing teams, and worse for expansion teams. That's why the new rules were implemented, so we don't have a repeat of previous expansion drafts where teams were ass for 5, 10, 20+ years. This team was never meant to be as good as it was, and never should have been, even with the terrible deals some of the other GM's made. The current expansion draft rules are just fine. The only minor change I'd make, is allow teams to expose one player with a NTC/NMC. That'll never happen though...

[chaps80 1,591]

Caps take it to 7!! Holtby was a beast, Ovechkin was hitting everything in sight.

40 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

Holland wouldn't know a good goalie if one sat on his face.  His only accomplishment in that area was getting Ilitch to open his deep pockets to Hasek and Cujo.  

Look at the crap the Wings have developed at that position with Mrazek, Coreau, and McCollum.  And of course, there's Mr. Average himself, Jimmy Howard.  

Osgood was the only one that didn't cost him a lot and paid off big time. He didn't draft Oz, but he did bring him back for a second stint and nearly won two Cups. Other than that, yeah not much.

[chaps80 1,591]

16 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I never argued otherwise... Obviously the old format was better for previously existing teams, and worse for expansion teams. That's why the new rules were implemented, so we don't have a repeat of previous expansion drafts where teams were ass for 5, 10, 20+ years. This team was never meant to be as good as it was, and never should have been, even with the terrible deals some of the other GM's made. The current expansion draft rules are just fine. The only minor change I'd make, is allow teams to expose one player with a NTC/NMC. That'll never happen though...

But expansion teams being ass for awhile is how it should be. Earn it. You get a roster of cast offs, and build through draft and free agency. How does is it remotely make sense to give them a better roster to be competitive with established teams who have had to claw their way to get to the top for years? It doesn't. Whether you think they weren't supposed to be this good or not is irrelevant. They are, and that's the problem. 

[Buppy 1,720]

14 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

But expansion teams being ass for awhile is how it should be. Earn it. You get a roster of cast offs, and build through draft and free agency. How does is it remotely make sense to give them a better roster to be competitive with established teams who have had to claw their way to get to the top for years? It doesn't. Whether you think they weren't supposed to be this good or not is irrelevant. They are, and that's the problem. 

They are a roster of cast-offs.

[chaps80 1,591]

4 minutes ago, Buppy said:

They are a roster of cast-offs.

Some. But some were not. In past expansions they were ALL true castoffs if you look at the rosters, and side deals were few. SJ made deals with Columbus and Minnesota to not take Nabokov, but what they gave up in return was more cast offs and low draft picks.

I still don't get why Vegas got a 2nd from Pittsburgh if they selected Fleury when Fleury was their known main goalie target leading up to the draft. You'd figure the Pens would have to told Vegas to go pound salt, unless they threatened to take another player instead, but they wouldn't have passed up Fleury.

Stuff like that is just ridiculous. 

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

Some. But some were not. In past expansions they were ALL true castoffs if you look at the rosters, and side deals were few. SJ made deals with Columbus and Minnesota to not take Nabokov, but what they gave up in return was more cast offs and low draft picks.

I still don't get why Vegas got a 2nd from Pittsburgh if they selected Fleury when Fleury was their known main goalie target leading up to the draft. You'd figure the Pens would have to told Vegas to go pound salt, unless they threatened to take another player instead, but they wouldn't have passed up Fleury.

Stuff like that is just ridiculous. 

You're just pissed no Canadian team made it to the finals.