2018 NHL Stanley Cup Playoffs Thread

[joesuffP 1,746]

17 minutes ago, Dabura said:

It's not a high moral standard. It's "Hey, Guy Who Hates Trump, maybe don't be a dingus and make this special occasion about you and your personal political beliefs. Your intended political statement won't change anyone's mind and won't do a blessed thing to truly advance any social causes. tl;dr Get over yourself."

I'm not saying Trump isn't guilty of countless acts of dingusry. I'm not saying Smith-Pelly has to like or respect him. I'm not even saying Smith-Pelly has to attend the thing. I'm just saying that by not attending, he's kind of being a dingus. A principled dingus? I mean, sure, I guess. You rock those principles, Smith-Pelly. You fight that good fight. Or something.

If other members of the team want to go they should go it shouldn’t matter that one teammate isn’t there. We live in an era where an athlete should know that the president is so immature that if he doesn’t want to meet him then it will get the rest of his team uninvited and we blame the athlete? It’s ridiculous. Nobody cared when Tim Thomas didn’t want to meet Obama

[Mckinley25 677]

36 minutes ago, Dabura said:

It's not a high moral standard. It's "Hey, Guy Who Hates Trump, maybe don't be a dingus and make this special occasion about you and your personal political beliefs. Your intended political statement won't change anyone's mind and won't do a blessed thing to truly advance any social causes. tl;dr Get over yourself."

I'm not saying Trump isn't guilty of countless acts of dingusry. I'm not saying Smith-Pelly has to like or respect him. I'm not even saying Smith-Pelly has to attend the thing. I'm just saying that by not attending, he's kind of being a dingus. A principled dingus? I mean, sure, I guess. You rock those principles, Smith-Pelly. You fight that good fight. Or something.

He’s very much not making it just about him.  It’s the treatment of fellow citizens that he’s protesting.  Whether his position is right or wrong it can’t be stated it’s only about him.  These issues are much larger than sports.  

[Dabura 12,207]

1 minute ago, joesuffP said:

If other members of the team want to go they should go it shouldn’t matter that one teammate isn’t there. We live in an era where an athlete should know that the president is so immature that if he doesn’t want to meet him then it will get the rest of his team uninvited and we blame the athlete? It’s ridiculous. Nobody cared when Tim Thomas didn’t want to meet Obama

People did care when Thomas didn't want to meet Obama. I remember people calling him a bigot, racist, etc.

Your stance here seems to rest on two beliefs: 1) any member of the Caps should be free to attend or not attend as he sees fit, and 2) f*** Trump. I agree with #1. If a player wants to attend? Great. If a player doesn't want to attend? I think that's dumb, but ok, it's a free country. A player can attend or not attend for whatever reasons.

As for #2, well, we agree that not attending, for any reasons, is ok ("ok"). But, if I may get decidedly political here, I think "I hate Trump" is a dumb reason. "Yeah, well, Trump says and does stupid s***. He doesn't deserve anyone's respect." Maybe, maybe not. Thing is, I could've said the same thing about Obama -- because, contrary to popular belief, Obama rubbed a hell of a lot of people the wrong way, and not just because "He's black and everyone's racist." I could write a book on the numerous reasons I loathe Obama and why I feel he was, objectively, an absolutely terrible POTUS. Yet, if I were Tim Thomas, I would've shown up at the White House. Because, to me, "I disapprove of this president, so I'm not showing up and I'm not shaking his freaking hand" is petty.

C'mon, Devante. Don't be Smith-Petty.

[Dabura 12,207]

6 minutes ago, Mckinley25 said:

He’s very much not making it just about him.  It’s the treatment of fellow citizens that he’s protesting.  Whether his position is right or wrong it can’t be stated it’s only about him.  These issues are much larger than sports.  

I'm not saying he's deliberately trying to make it about him. I don't believe that's the case. What I'm saying is, regardless of his specific intentions, The Story is going to be about him and what he did(n't do). I don't feel "He's taking a stand here to raise awareness for the plight of people of color" is really going to sell anyone who isn't already a believer. I don't feel it's going to win over any hearts or change any minds or advance any causes or spark any truly constructive national dialogues. Mainstream media will use it to attack Trump and Republicans, SB Nation will publish a dozen articles about how hockey is racist. The world will keep spinning, totally unchanged.

I'm not a big Kim Kardashian fan and I don't necessarily think the cause she was pushing was a truly just one, but, to her credit, she worked with Trump, met him in person, and got something she wanted without giving him anything. She used her fame, status, power for leverage and was able to achieve (what she believes is) justice. Personally, I'd rather see athletes who hate Trump follow Kardashian's example. If The Cause is really *That Important*, then pursue a course of action that might actually yield tangible results. Try working with the president, even if he is himself petty and [insert other adjectives of your choice]. Be what you would classify as "the better person." Don't just say "F*** that guy" and expect that to help improve race relations in the United States. Because it won't. I guarantee you it won't.

[Mckinley25 677]

13 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I'm not saying he's deliberately trying to make it about him. I don't believe that's the case. What I'm saying is, regardless of his specific intentions, The Story is going to be about him and what he did(n't do). I don't feel "He's taking a stand here to raise awareness for the plight of people of color" is really going to sell anyone who isn't already a believer. I don't feel it's going to win over any hearts or change any minds or advance any causes or spark any truly constructive national dialogues. Mainstream media will use it to attack Trump and Republicans, SB Nation will publish a dozen articles about how hockey is racist. The world will keep spinning, totally unchanged.

I'm not a big Kim Kardashian fan and I don't necessarily think the cause she was pushing was a truly just one, but, to her credit, she worked with Trump, met him in person, and got something she wanted without giving him anything. She used her fame, status, power for leverage and was able to achieve (what she believes is) justice. Personally, I'd rather see athletes who hate Trump follow Kardashian's example. If The Cause is really *That Important*, then pursue a course of action that might actually yield tangible results. Try working with the president, even if he is himself petty and [insert other adjectives of your choice]. Be what you would classify as "the better person." Don't just say "F*** that guy" and expect that to help improve race relations in the United States. Because it won't. I guarantee you it won't.

If the White House visit wasn’t just ceremonial nonsense then I might agree with you, but it’s hardly an avenue to discuss something of substance like what Kim Kardashian did.  So taking a stand gets people talking about it and it absolutely does work, it already has, the issue is being discussed nationally and a spotlight pointed at the problems.  Historically this is often how change is initiated.  

[Dabura 12,207]

34 minutes ago, Mckinley25 said:

If the White House visit wasn’t just ceremonial nonsense then I might agree with you, but it’s hardly an avenue to discuss something of substance like what Kim Kardashian did.

I'm not saying he should try to have a dialogue at the actual event. I'm saying that instead of telling the media, "The president is racist and I'm not showing up," and letting that be the extent of his involvement with Trump, he could, perhaps, show up to the "nonsense ceremony" as a good-faith gesture and, from there, pursue a constructive dialogue (post-ceremony).

34 minutes ago, Mckinley25 said:

So taking a stand gets people talking about it and it absolutely does work, it already has, the issue is being discussed nationally and a spotlight pointed at the problems.  Historically this is often how change is initiated.  

My point stands: minds are not being changed, hearts are not being won. Actual, tangible progress is not being made.

I'm huge into politics, American and international. I've followed this "national conversation" from the beginning, I've devoured coverage of it from media outlets all over the political spectrum. My overwhelming impression is that "I'm gonna kneel during the anthem" and "We're gonna make this awards show hyper-political" and "I'm not attending the White House ceremony" are not actually helping race relations. People who are already predisposed to support [x] are loudly voicing their support for [x], and 90% of the mainstream media and 97% of famous entertainers happen to be among these people, so there's a false sense of how big this conversation really is and how many people are really engaging in it and how close we are to achieving "justice."

I believe we need more people reaching across the aisle. I'd like to see more of that from Trump and I'd like to see more of that from famous, wealthy people who hate Trump. I think Smith-Pelly is missing an opportunity here and I think that's regrettable.

Edited June 10, 2018 by Dabura

[Mckinley25 677]

42 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I'm not saying he should try to have a dialogue at the actual event. I'm saying that instead of telling the media, "The president is racist and I'm not showing up," and letting that be the extent of his involvement with Trump, he could, perhaps, show up to the "nonsense ceremony" as a good-faith gesture and, from there, pursue a constructive dialogue (post-ceremony).

My point stands: minds are not being changed, hearts are not being won. Actual, tangible progress is not being made.

I'm huge into politics, American and international. I've followed this "national conversation" from the beginning, I've devoured coverage of it from media outlets all over the political spectrum. My overwhelming impression is that "I'm gonna kneel during the anthem" and "We're gonna make this awards show hyper-political" and "I'm not attending the White House ceremony" are not actually helping race relations. People who are already predisposed to support [x] are loudly voicing their support for [x], and 90% of the mainstream media and 97% of famous entertainers happen to be among these people, so there's a falseave sense of how big this conversation really is and how many people are really engaging in it and how close we are to achieving "justice."o

I believe we need more people reaching across the aisle. I'd like to see more of that from Trump and I'd like to see more of that from famous, wealthy people who hate Trump. I think Smith-Pelly is missing an opportunity here and I think that's regrettable.

I dont think a good faith gesture in light of the accusations made is advisable.  I agree that more than the protest is advisable though, but the event hasn’t even occurred yet, so we can hardly discuss that. 

 

I also very much live politics and as always, change is occurring.  There’s a reason every generation improves upon the previous one.  These issues are definitely changing the way people think and if we look back at this in twenty years, the prevailing opinions will seem antiquated by comparison.

[Dabura 12,207]

3 minutes ago, Mckinley25 said:

I dont think a good faith gesture in light of the accusations made is advisable.

Which accusations? Smith-Pelly's comment about Trump "spewing racism"? I don't think that should -- or, indeed, would -- get in the way of a civil, constructive sitdown. No, really. I think Trump would be perfectly willing to talk with Smith-Pelly, have an actual ongoing dialogue...assuming he attends the ceremony.

7 minutes ago, Mckinley25 said:

I also very much live politics and as always, change is occurring.  There’s a reason every generation improves upon the previous one.  These issues are definitely changing the way people think and if we look back at this in twenty years, the prevailing opinions will seem antiquated by comparison.

Again, I disagree that minds are being changed and hearts are being won to the extent that you think they are. If anything, I'd say these gestures/stunts are hurting race relations, exacerbating problems, widening divides. (And, yes, I think we can largely credit Obama for putting us in this position.)

But then, admittedly, I'm not an especially "progressive" person politically. I don't believe in the tenets of what people these days are calling "social justice." I believe in being a decent person and doing what you can, within reason, to help those in need. But in today's Social Justice Movements all over the world, I can't help but see Marxist wolves in sheep's clothing, pulling the strings on useful puppets, agitating for ends that really don't have anything to do with justice, equality, progress.

I suppose I should probably leave it at that. Sorry for derailing the thread with politics.

[Mckinley25 677]

38 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Which accusations? Smith-Pelly's comment about Trump "spewing racism"? I don't think that should -- or, indeed, would -- get in the way of a civil, constructive sitdown. No, really. I think Trump would be perfectly willing to talk with Smith-Pelly, have an actual ongoing dialogue...assuming he attends the ceremony.

Again, I disagree that minds are being changed and hearts are being won to the extent that you think they are. If anything, I'd say these gestures/stunts are hurting race relations, exacerbating problems, widening divides. (And, yes, I think we can largely credit Obama for putting us in this position.)

But then, admittedly, I'm not an especially "progressive" person politically. I don't believe in the tenets of what people these days are calling "social justice." I believe in being a decent person and doing what you can, within reason, to help those in need. But in today's Social Justice Movements all over the world, I can't help but see Marxist wolves in sheep's clothing, pulling the strings on useful puppets, agitating for ends that really don't have anything to do with justice, equality, progress.

I suppose I should probably leave it at that. Sorry for derailing the thread with politics.

Yes the accusations are very harsh, I don’t think this forum is the place to get into whether or not they are accurate, but they are severe enough that not participating in a completely ceremonial event under those circumstances is warranted. 

 

There is not a problem with “social justice” advocates, the problem is the internet, as it gives an equal voice to anyone with an opinion.  It may distract from, but it doesn’t undermine the efforts of progressivism all over the globe.  The world is becoming a better place, it does so on the backs of progressivism as it always has.  Some metrics by which we measure the quality of life waver, (suicide is trending in the wrong direction currently) but overall everything is moving in a favorable direction.  Race issues have been a problem long before Obama, he demonstrably did not make people more racist, his divisive policies just coincided with the rise of social media, and the shrinking of our world has just illuminated an already boiling pot.  But that pot is still cooling, whether our perceptions tell us this or not.  For argument’s sake let’s pretend Smith-Pelly’s charges are warranted, this is precisely the same type of awareness that brought previous outdated world views to their knees and left us with a more tolerable world.  

The protests of the anthem have already awakened people to the idea that respect of what the flag stands for outweighs respect for the flag itself.  We will be a stronger country because less people will lose site of that.  

The pendulum continues to swing so don’t be discouraged when it reaches its mirrored extreme, for it’s narrowing with each pass.  

Edited June 10, 2018 by Mckinley25

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

That's exactly the problem I have with what Smith-Pelly is doing. He's taking something that is "ceremonial" and making it political. There is a time and a place for all things. Progress is not made when you choose to use the wrong time and place to push an agenda, no matter how noble or popular it may be. You can't expect to win people over by offending them. You can't create constructive dialogue thru divisive actions. People that already hate Trump will applaud what he is doing and people that support Trump will only hate what he is doing. That's division, not coming together. There is nothing wrong with criticizing the President. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with his policies. But when you choose the wrong opportunities to do so, you are more likely to create more enemies than allies, not just in society as a whole, but among your teammates and fans too. That's not helpful. He certainly shouldn't be forced to go if he doesn't want to, but there is a way to go about it without drawing undue attention. Progress, like time, moves at its own pace, you can't just speed it up to suit your needs. And in many ways, "progress" is only repeating the same mistakes that our ancestors already figured out long ago.

[Mckinley25 677]

8 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

That's exactly the problem I have with what Smith-Pelly is doing. He's taking something that is "ceremonial" and making it political. There is a time and a place for all things. Progress is not made when you choose to use the wrong time and place to push an agenda, no matter how noble or popular it may be. You can't expect to win people over by offending them. You can't create constructive dialogue thru divisive actions. People that already hate Trump will applaud what he is doing and people that support Trump will only hate what he is doing. That's division, not coming together. There is nothing wrong with criticizing the President. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with his policies. But when you choose the wrong opportunities to do so, you are more likely to create more enemies than allies, not just in society as a whole, but among your teammates and fans too. That's not helpful. He certainly shouldn't be forced to go if he doesn't want to, but there is a way to go about it without drawing undue attention. Progress, like time, moves at its own pace, you can't just speed it up to suit your needs. And in many ways, "progress" is only repeating the same mistakes that our ancestors already figured out long ago.

The national focus of this event is precisely what makes it appropriate to make a stand.  I couldn’t respect myself for participating in a nonsense ceremonial event with someone so detestable.  If I had an opportunity to have meaningful discourse with said person I’d be there with bells on.  

 

Smtih-Pelley can certainly do more for his cause, and whether he will remains to be seen, but this has already been an effective start.  

 

We absolutely should speed up progress to suit our needs!  We are talking about the alleviation of suffering, we study cancer and aids with as much focus as possible for the same reason we address issues of race relations.  What we can’t do is stifle progress to suit the needs of tradition or superstition!!

Edited June 10, 2018 by Mckinley25

[kickazz 5,459]

12 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

That's exactly the problem I have with what Smith-Pelly is doing. He's taking something that is "ceremonial" and making it political. There is a time and a place for all things. Progress is not made when you choose to use the wrong time and place to push an agenda, no matter how noble or popular it may be. You can't expect to win people over by offending them. You can't create constructive dialogue thru divisive actions. People that already hate Trump will applaud what he is doing and people that support Trump will only hate what he is doing. That's division, not coming together. There is nothing wrong with criticizing the President. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with his policies. But when you choose the wrong opportunities to do so, you are more likely to create more enemies than allies, not just in society as a whole, but among your teammates and fans too. That's not helpful. He certainly shouldn't be forced to go if he doesn't want to, but there is a way to go about it without drawing undue attention. Progress, like time, moves at its own pace, you can't just speed it up to suit your needs. And in many ways, "progress" is only repeating the same mistakes that our ancestors already figured out long ago.

Ok we get it, you support Mr. T and are butt-hurt that Smith-Pelley indirectly trash talked the dude. It will be okay I promise. Mr. T will go on a twitter rant at some point and call him out and you and the other 52 million followers on twitter can retweet him. 

Edited June 10, 2018 by kickazz

[kickazz 5,459]

12 hours ago, Mckinley25 said:

The national focus of this event is precisely what makes it appropriate to make a stand.  I couldn’t respect myself for participating in a nonsense ceremonial event with someone so detestable.  If I had an opportunity to have meaningful discourse with said person I’d be there with bells on.  

I agree, Smith-Pelley used the perfect opportunity to nationally put Mr. T on blast. That's exactly how you do it. 

More trash talk please.

 

Edited June 10, 2018 by kickazz

[kickazz 5,459]

15 hours ago, Dabura said:

I'm not saying he's deliberately trying to make it about him. I don't believe that's the case. What I'm saying is, regardless of his specific intentions, The Story is going to be about him and what he did(n't do). I don't feel "He's taking a stand here to raise awareness for the plight of people of color" is really going to sell anyone who isn't already a believer. I don't feel it's going to win over any hearts or change any minds or advance any causes or spark any truly constructive national dialogues. Mainstream media will use it to attack Trump and Republicans, SB Nation will publish a dozen articles about how hockey is racist. The world will keep spinning, totally unchanged.

I'm not a big Kim Kardashian fan and I don't necessarily think the cause she was pushing was a truly just one, but, to her credit, she worked with Trump, met him in person, and got something she wanted without giving him anything. She used her fame, status, power for leverage and was able to achieve (what she believes is) justice. Personally, I'd rather see athletes who hate Trump follow Kardashian's example. If The Cause is really *That Important*, then pursue a course of action that might actually yield tangible results. Try working with the president, even if he is himself petty and [insert other adjectives of your choice]. Be what you would classify as "the better person." Don't just say "F*** that guy" and expect that to help improve race relations in the United States. Because it won't. I guarantee you it won't.

14 hours ago, Dabura said:

I'm not saying he should try to have a dialogue at the actual event. I'm saying that instead of telling the media, "The president is racist and I'm not showing up," and letting that be the extent of his involvement with Trump, he could, perhaps, show up to the "nonsense ceremony" as a good-faith gesture and, from there, pursue a constructive dialogue (post-ceremony).

No that's being a wuss. This is hockey. We're violent and talk s***. 

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

On 6/9/2018 at 12:15 PM, Mckinley25 said:

Isn’t that his point?

Ok you tell me what his point is?

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

9 hours ago, kickazz said:

Ok we get it, you support Mr. T and are butt-hurt that Smith-Pelley indirectly trash talked the dude. It will be okay I promise. Mr. T will go on a twitter rant at some point and call him out and you and the other 52 million followers on twitter can retweet him.

If by Mr. T, you mean Mr. Trump, I can assure you that I am neither a supporter nor would I waste my time following him on twitter. My criticism of Smith-Pelly has nothing to do with the President personally. It's about showing someone who is in a position of honor and privilege, the proper respect that comes with that position. Regardless of how one feels about the man himself, he is still the President and there should be a level of etiquette and decorum for such a person. I wouldn't define being disrespectful. dishonorable, and hateful toward ANYONE, let alone a superior authority as "Progress". If that's what "Progress" is, then I want nothing to do with it.

If by Mr. T, you are referring to the actor formerly known as Laurence Tureaud, then yes, I am a fan. I still watch the A-Team any time it's on TV. Hypothetical question; who wins in a cage fight?

Clubber Lang

or

 B.A. Baracas

[kickazz 5,459]

4 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

If by Mr. T, you mean Mr. Trump, I can assure you that I am neither a supporter nor would I waste my time following him on twitter. My criticism of Smith-Pelly has nothing to do with the President personally. It's about showing someone who is in a position of honor and privilege, the proper respect that comes with that position. Regardless of how one feels about the man himself, he is still the President and there should be a level of etiquette and decorum for such a person. I wouldn't define being disrespectful. dishonorable, and hateful toward ANYONE, let alone a superior authority as "Progress". If that's what "Progress" is, then I want nothing to do with it.

If by Mr. T, you are referring to the actor formerly known as Laurence Tureaud, then yes, I am a fan. I still watch the A-Team any time it's on TV. Hypothetical question; who wins in a cage fight?

Clubber Lang

or

 B.A. Baracas

You’re saying he should respect the the guy but really what you’re saying is “I don’t want Smith-Pelly to excercise his free rights”.

Yeah. I don’t think so. He can say whatever he wants just like Mr. T can rant and disrespect  whoever he wants on twitter. 

Your argument is pretty damn hypocritical. Willing to overlook the slander committed by T but all of a sudden it’s  disrespectful for Smith-Pelly to speak his honest opinion? All because the other guy is in a position of power? Yeah this ain’t a dictatorship. We impeach people here and expose them in court if there’s reason to believe they done bad. No such thing as blind respect in the constitution written by the forefathers when they wanted to avoid King George’s tyranny and conflict against the powerless masses (which was a big reason why the revolution happened to begin with).

I learned all this when I played Assassins creed 3. 

Edited June 11, 2018 by kickazz

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

This thread needs to be locked.

Why? I’m talking about Mr. T and assassins creed 3 game play. I guess  that is off topic and belongs in the water cooler thread under video games. 

That was actually what Connor and Haythem (the characters in the video game) were fighting against. Aside from the Templar vs Assassin brotherhood issues that is. Mr. T is just a video gamer and he likes playing World of Warcraft.  

 

Edited June 11, 2018 by kickazz

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

19 hours ago, kickazz said:

You’re saying he should respect the the guy but really what you’re saying is “I don’t want Smith-Pelly to excercise his free rights”.

Yeah. I don’t think so. He can say whatever he wants just like Mr. T can rant and disrespect  whoever he wants on twitter. 

Your argument is pretty damn hypocritical. Willing to overlook the slander committed by T but all of a sudden it’s  disrespectful for Smith-Pelly to speak his honest opinion? All because the other guy is in a position of power? Yeah this ain’t a dictatorship. We impeach people here and expose them in court if there’s reason to believe they done bad. No such thing as blind respect in the constitution written by the forefathers when they wanted to avoid King George’s tyranny and conflict against the powerless masses (which was a big reason why the revolution happened to begin with).

I learned all this when I played Assassins creed 3. 

oops

Edited June 12, 2018 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

You should probably reread my post.  Nowhere did I defend Mr. T. No where did I say Mr T hasnt done anything wrong so no hypocrisy there. I was talking about Face cuz he is a hockey player and therefore relevant to the topic. I was only talking about respecting the office of the Prez not Mr. T. 2 different things. & just because Face has the legal right to do something doesnt mean he should nor does it exempt him from the consequences of his actions. Ya know kinda like what has happened to Murdoch when he refused to stand for the anthem.

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 6/9/2018 at 6:12 PM, Dabura said:

I'm not saying he should try to have a dialogue at the actual event. I'm saying that instead of telling the media, "The president is racist and I'm not showing up," and letting that be the extent of his involvement with Trump, he could, perhaps, show up to the "nonsense ceremony" as a good-faith gesture and, from there, pursue a constructive dialogue (post-ceremony).

My point stands: minds are not being changed, hearts are not being won. Actual, tangible progress is not being made.

I'm huge into politics, American and international. I've followed this "national conversation" from the beginning, I've devoured coverage of it from media outlets all over the political spectrum. My overwhelming impression is that "I'm gonna kneel during the anthem" and "We're gonna make this awards show hyper-political" and "I'm not attending the White House ceremony" are not actually helping race relations. People who are already predisposed to support [x] are loudly voicing their support for [x], and 90% of the mainstream media and 97% of famous entertainers happen to be among these people, so there's a false sense of how big this conversation really is and how many people are really engaging in it and how close we are to achieving "justice."

I believe we need more people reaching across the aisle. I'd like to see more of that from Trump and I'd like to see more of that from famous, wealthy people who hate Trump. I think Smith-Pelly is missing an opportunity here and I think that's regrettable.

Smartest bit in this thread.

Every time you kneel during the anthem, you grow Trumps base. Every time you air an episode of a comedy show that bashes Trump for 30 minutes, you grow Trumps base. Every time you make a simple white house ceremony political by refusing to attend, you grow Trumps base.

What is Trump's base?... Conservative? Racist? That's up to your personal POV, but regardless, these actions feed the beast....

The man ran a campaign (and is still running a campaign) as the "attacked man". The media, the FBI, the republicans, the democrats, according to him they're all out to get him... and the more you pile on the stronger his stance as "the attacked man" becomes.

To me this point should ring true whether you love him or hate him....

On 6/9/2018 at 4:44 PM, joesuffP said:

If other members of the team want to go they should go it shouldn’t matter that one teammate isn’t there. We live in an era where an athlete should know that the president is so immature that if he doesn’t want to meet him then it will get the rest of his team uninvited and we blame the athlete? It’s ridiculous. Nobody cared when Tim Thomas didn’t want to meet Obama

Yes, people absolutely cared when Tim Thomas didn't attend and made the whole thing political. What timeline are you living in?

I thought it was really stupid of Thomas at the time, and I think it will be pretty dumb of DSP if he makes the same mistake.

On 6/9/2018 at 8:44 PM, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

That's exactly the problem I have with what Smith-Pelly is doing. He's taking something that is "ceremonial" and making it political. There is a time and a place for all things. Progress is not made when you choose to use the wrong time and place to push an agenda, no matter how noble or popular it may be. You can't expect to win people over by offending them. You can't create constructive dialogue thru divisive actions. People that already hate Trump will applaud what he is doing and people that support Trump will only hate what he is doing. That's division, not coming together. There is nothing wrong with criticizing the President. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with his policies. But when you choose the wrong opportunities to do so, you are more likely to create more enemies than allies, not just in society as a whole, but among your teammates and fans too. That's not helpful. He certainly shouldn't be forced to go if he doesn't want to, but there is a way to go about it without drawing undue attention. Progress, like time, moves at its own pace, you can't just speed it up to suit your needs. And in many ways, "progress" is only repeating the same mistakes that our ancestors already figured out long ago.

Let's just say I don't care for Obama... However, if Barack Obama invited me to the white house to congratulate me on a championship win, you're goddamn right I'd go. I'd shake his hand, smile for the camera, and exchange pleasantries, because that's what grown adults do. At the end of the day, no matter how much Barry O and I disagree, were both still Americans and we can put personal politics aside to enjoy an afternoon ceremony together. Tim Thomas lacked the maturity to do this, and is therefore IMO a big ol dingus.

If DSP doesn't go, that's his prerogative. I just think the end result will be the exact opposite of what he's trying to achieve.

[kickazz 5,459]

Gandhi, Malcolm X, MLK Jr, and the American revolution forefathers are reading this s*** and calling you guys a bunch of poons. 

Say what you gotta say Smith-Pelly. 

[kickazz 5,459]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

 

Let's just say I don't care for Obama... However, if Barack Obama invited me to the white house to congratulate me on a championship win, you're goddamn right I'd go. I'd shake his hand, smile for the camera, and exchange pleasantries, because that's what grown adults do. At the end of the day, no matter how much Barry O and I disagree, were both still Americans and we can put personal politics aside to enjoy an afternoon ceremony together. Tim Thomas lacked the maturity to do this, and is therefore IMO a big ol dingus.

If DSP doesn't go, that's his prerogative. I just think the end result will be the exact opposite of what he's trying to achieve.

This is a bad example. Look at the reason why Smith Pelly doesn’t want to go. He thinks the guy is a racist. Obama was disliked for his political perspective not for his personal attack’s on groups of people like in Ts case. You’re comparing apples to oranges. Professional disagreement vs personal vendettas. 

Edited June 11, 2018 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

34 minutes ago, kickazz said:

This is a bad example. Look at the reason why Smith Pelly doesn’t want to go. He thinks the guy is a racist. Obama was disliked for his political perspective not for his personal attack’s on groups of people like in Ts case. You’re comparing apples to oranges. Professional disagreement vs personal vendettas. 

This.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

17 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Gandhi, Malcolm X, MLK Jr, and the American revolution forefathers are reading this s*** and calling you guys a bunch of poons. 

Say what you gotta say Smith-Pelly. 

Gandhi and MLK both preached love and understanding, even towards ones enemies. I feel pretty confident saying both would probably meet with president Trump if invited to, assuming you believe they'd share DSP's opinion (I'm not confident they would)

Malcolm X was admittedly racist and advocated for segregation of blacks and whites for most of his life. He would probably have more of a problem with DSP... what with playing on a hockey team full of white guys and all.

Didn't the founding fathers all own slaves?

4 minutes ago, kickazz said:

This is a bad example. Look at the reason why Smith Pelly doesn’t want to go. He thinks the guy is a racist. Obama was disliked for his political perspective not for his personal attack’s on groups of people like in Ts case. You’re comparing apples to oranges. 

That's fair. It's a different situation than Tim Thomas. Tim just strongly disagreed with Obama politically.

But the keyword in your sentence "He thinks the guy is a racist" is thinks. Wanna know for sure? Maybe go meet the guy, see what you think? IDK, I tend to side with the open minded on most things (not hockey).

Anyway, I maintain that I think it was a mistake on Tim's part, and that it will be a mistake on DSP's part if he chooses not to attend. If his goal is to be divisive and stoke Trump's base, then by all means don't attend, you're just making the man more of a martyr for the political right.