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Dabura

Official 2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread

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1 hour ago, Dabura said:

Bump.

Like I noted in another thread, the Wings could have a ton of cap space next summer. I expect us to go HAM for Erik Karlsson. Assuming Zetterberg is done after this year, I'd also expect us to sniff around for a centerman.

https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/2019/ufa/

Is Karlsson a pipe dream? Prolly. But I doubt many teams are going to be in a position to offer him the kind of contract he'll be looking for ($11M+ per, using the Doughty deal as a comparable). We could be one of the few teams that could make it work.

It's early days, of course. But atm I'm liking the idea of trading a forward or two + a defense prospect for Oscar Klefbom.

Ericsson  Karlsson
Klefbom  Green
DeKeyser  Hronek

too balanced. it'll never work.

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I think what people may be forgetting about an offer sheet is that the player still has to sign it in order for it to go through. There's a zero percent chance Larkin signs an offer sheet from Bergevin, in the off chance it wouldn't be matched by Holland and he would have to leave his hometown team to play the next 7 years in the tire fire of an organization, Montreal...

However, I don't think some other GM offer sheeting Larkin would be the worst thing that could happen. Assuming it's nothing too ridiculous (it wouldn't be) and we'd match it (which we would), it may be a better contract than what Holland would offer (at least long term). All I've been hearing regarding an extension for Larkin has been short term, bridge deals (3-5 years). I'd much rather go max term with Larkin, and any offer sheet would have to be that, assuming they're serious about getting the player. As I've mentioned before, I think we should go 8 years on Larkin, but 7 years would be the next best thing.

Regardless, for good or bad, offer sheets rarely ever happen anymore, and even when they do, they don't go through. No way Bergevin offer sheets Larkin...

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6 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

What kid is better than Green or Daley that they deserve a roster spot over either of these two recent veteran signings?

Daley is here.  I'm not complaining about him now.  No need to bring in Green.  Sign a guy to a one year deal as a placeholder and tell the kids they have a legit shot.  Maybe someone surprises them.  Cholowski could certainly make a case to make the team, or Hicketts.  Green isn't the difference between pretender and contender, the team is loaded with vets, there was ZERO reason to sign him, especially with a NTC.

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25 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Daley is here.  I'm not complaining about him now.  No need to bring in Green.  Sign a guy to a one year deal as a placeholder and tell the kids they have a legit shot.  Maybe someone surprises them.  Cholowski could certainly make a case to make the team, or Hicketts.  Green isn't the difference between pretender and contender, the team is loaded with vets, there was ZERO reason to sign him, especially with a NTC.

Like I said in the other thread, if you want to complain about there being no spots for the kids to make the team, complain about not trading a DeKeyser or Ericsson, not for signing Green. Green (and Daley) will be great mentors for the kids over the next two seasons. Good signing.

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8 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Like I said in the other thread, if you want to complain about there being no spots for the kids to make the team, complain about not trading a DeKeyser or Ericsson, not for signing Green. Green (and Daley) will be great mentors for the kids over the next two seasons. Good signing.

Nobody wants Ericsson, and Dekeyser isn't the problem.

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15 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Nobody wants Ericsson, and Dekeyser isn't the problem.

So what you're saying is Ericsson is untradeable? Not getting into that again, but yes, he absolutely can be traded. And again, if you want to blame Holland, blame him for not being able to trade away any of the bloated contracts, not for signing players that are well worth their contracts...

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11 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

So what you're saying is Ericsson is untradeable? Not getting into that again, but yes, he absolutely can be traded. And again, if you want to blame Holland, blame him for not being able to trade away any of the bloated contracts, not for signing players that are well worth their contracts...

 

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1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

Daley is here.  I'm not complaining about him now.  No need to bring in Green.  Sign a guy to a one year deal as a placeholder and tell the kids they have a legit shot.  Maybe someone surprises them.  Cholowski could certainly make a case to make the team, or Hicketts.  Green isn't the difference between pretender and contender, the team is loaded with vets, there was ZERO reason to sign him, especially with a NTC.

There was an open roster spot. If Hronek or Cholowski weren't ready, why not bring back arguably your best D?

Edited by Neomaxizoomdweebie

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I don't really see what's so good about Green? He put up relatively decent numbers but he's no Kronwall in terms of work ethic and actual leadership. I don't think he's better than Kronwall defensively. I'd say Kronwall has the higher overall IQ and Green has a higher Offensive IQ. 

I think Green is a bit overrated around here. I give him credit for putting up offense and he's a great skater but a veterans can't really teach someone how to skate lol. 

On any given good team, I highly doubt Green would be a top defenseman. I would have signed him for a year at most. Glad it's not $6 million but would have preferred less than $5 million. 

I won't be surprised if he ends up on LTIR though. 

Honestly would have much rather had both Cholowski or Hronek start this year. 

Moving DK and Ericsson isn't easy and at the moment we're stuck with them but that doesn't mean you just sign another veteran and take up another spot and handicap your open spots further. 

 

Edited by kickazz

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57 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

So what you're saying is Ericsson is untradeable? Not getting into that again, but yes, he absolutely can be traded. And again, if you want to blame Holland, blame him for not being able to trade away any of the bloated contracts, not for signing players that are well worth their contracts...

Agreed, we could easily trade E if we retained some salary. They guy only has 2 years left, and if we retained 25-50%, teams would give something up for him.

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1 hour ago, kickazz said:

I don't really see what's so good about Green? He put up relatively decent numbers but he's no Kronwall in terms of work ethic and actual leadership. I don't think he's better than Kronwall defensively. I'd say Kronwall has the higher overall IQ and Green has a higher Offensive IQ. 

I think Green is a bit overrated around here. I give him credit for putting up offense and he's a great skater but a veterans can't really teach someone how to skate lol. 

On any given good team, I highly doubt Green would be a top defenseman. I would have signed him for a year at most. Glad it's not $6 million but would have preferred less than $5 million. 

I won't be surprised if he ends up on LTIR though. 

Honestly would have much rather had both Cholowski or Hronek start this year. 

Moving DK and Ericsson isn't easy and at the moment we're stuck with them but that doesn't mean you just sign another veteran and take up another spot and handicap your open spots further. 

I disagree. I think Green is much better than Kronwall at this stage of their respective careers. And there's much more to Green's game than just great skating. His decision making in the offensive zone is borderline elite. And the way he can quarterback a power-play is up there amongst the tops in the league. Those are things that Hronek can definitely learn from him.

No, Green wouldn't be a top defenseman on any contending teams, but why does that matter? He's a top defenseman on this team and that's why he was brought back. I think most would have preferred one year, but two years isn't bad at all, especially considering he could have gotten 3-5 on the open market. The cap hit doesn't really matter much either since we shouldn't be a cap team for the next few years. He did take a discount and would have likely gotten $6M+ in free agency.

No one's suggesting that moving a bad contract is "easy", but it is certainly doable. Every year bad contracts are moved, and Ericsson's isn't even that bad compared to some of the albatross contracts out there.

1 hour ago, kliq said:

Agreed, we could easily trade E if we retained some salary. They guy only has 2 years left, and if we retained 25-50%, teams would give something up for him.

This.

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I actually agree that Green is overrated considering the rest of the league. But on the microcosm of this team hes a god send. Soooo much better than most of the trash we have.

If youre complaining that Green is taking away a roster spot you're looney. Ericsson, Jensen, Dekeyser and starting to look like Kronwall are occupying those spots. If you are too trash to steal one of their jobs, you have no business being on this team.

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4 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I actually agree that Green is overrated considering the rest of the league. But on the microcosm of this team hes a god send. Soooo much better than most of the trash we have.

If youre complaining that Green is taking away a roster spot you're looney. Ericsson, Jensen, Dekeyser and starting to look like Kronwall are occupying those spots. If you are too trash to steal one of their jobs, you have no business being on this team.

I agree. Regarding the bold though, if Hronek, Cholowski or Hicketts come into camp and outperform one (or all) of Ericsson, DeKeyser or Jensen, do you think the kid would or should be given the roster spot over the vet?

You may disagree (I know some do), but I do believe there still is too much of a veteran bias on this team. We're rebuilding. If a kid proves to be ready (not saying any of them are), they should be given equal opportunity as the vets. We really need to start taking full advantage of the kids on ELC's, and get more out of their prime years. IF a kid comes into camp and outperforms one of the vets, I think he should be given an opportunity to start the regular season in Detroit. I'm not convinced that will happen though...

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1 hour ago, SaCkaveli20 said:

Well....I haven't been to this site in quite sometime. Haven't watched hockey in like 4 years or something like that...….Is Ken Holland still our GM?

Welcome back!

Shakira is our GM, I'm dating Angela Lindvall, and the Oilers are good again.

jk the Oilers still suck.

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14 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

Daley is here.  I'm not complaining about him now.  No need to bring in Green.  Sign a guy to a one year deal as a placeholder and tell the kids they have a legit shot.  Maybe someone surprises them.  Cholowski could certainly make a case to make the team, or Hicketts.  Green isn't the difference between pretender and contender, the team is loaded with vets, there was ZERO reason to sign him, especially with a NTC.

 

13 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Like I said in the other thread, if you want to complain about there being no spots for the kids to make the team, complain about not trading a DeKeyser or Ericsson, not for signing Green. Green (and Daley) will be great mentors for the kids over the next two seasons. Good signing.

It's TWO.  It's not 3, 4, or 5.  It's TWO. Are we any of our kids helping us contend in two years? Are all of our defensemen invulnerable this year and next?  There will be no call ups for injuries, etc?  Additionally, cap-wise; it's very likely, under value. Moreso, despite what a gigantic bunch of you ninnies think, a NTC is not the end all and be all of Green being tradeable.  Do any of you think that Green DOESN'T want a cup?  Do any of you think that Green wouldn't waive that NTC to go win a cup on a contending team? Do you think if asked for a list of teams, Green is just gonna say, "Nah. I'm good. Lingering here with my career fading away quickly is just fine."

 ...but I digress, none of the above is worth discussing with any of you anyway because Holland won't get a first rounder for Green, so it's all moot, amirite?  

Plain and simple, and please, listen. Read:   

GREEN IS A STOPGAP.  You may not like that it's a two year deal but, as @krsmith17 said, Green is not the player holding a spot from the kids in 2019-2020.

Green can mentor kids better than Kronwall in 2018-19/19-20 BECAUSE HE'S ACTUALLY NOT A BROKEN DOWN OLD MAN (sorry @55fan) and he will not be here in 2019-2020.

Ericsson might be here in 2019-20, but he is servicable when paired with the right guy and also god forbid I said it -- tradeable!   You can complain about that contract extension as much as you like, but it's OLD NEWS.  Ancient times. I don't care how indicative it is of Holland behavior.  I don't like it, but WTF man, you can only ***** about it SO MUCH. 

@krsmith17 also mentions DeKeyser, but I haven't given up hope on Danny.  We always overvalue our prospects, ESPECIALLY OUR DEFENSIVE PROSPECTS as it's our most glaring need!!  If nothing else, he could be a solid second pairing guy, and let's be realistic -- DD is not getting traded.

However...

GREEN IS EASILY TRADEABLE TO A TEAM THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY WANT HIM.  WHATEVER ASSETS WE GET FROM TRADING GREEN ARE ASSETS WE DIDN'T HAVE.  WE GAVE UP NOTHING BUT CASH FOR GREEN - NO PICKS, NO PLAYERS, NO PROSPECTS - TO FILL THE GIGANTIC GAPING HOLE WE HAVE ALONG OUR BLUELINE.  THAT HOLE ISN'T GOING AWAY BECAUSE GREEN ISN'T SIGNED AND CHOLO COMES UP.

Let's not pretend ANY of our defensive prospects right now are going to come into the league and burn it down.  Should they get some time? ABSOLUTELY.  Should they have veterans along side them to ensure they don't get exposed for what they most certainly are (developing prospects) ?  Most certainly, YES.  Would it be nice to have Kronwall's or Ericsson's spot open for a youngster this year?  Sure... but you're not gonna trade Kronner, so you've have another year of Kronner bouncing back and forth on LITR and again, in all likelihood, two years with Ericsson.    

IF, in the year 2020, GM Ken Holland offers any combination of one or more of Mike Green, Jonathan Ericsson, or Trevor Daley another two or three year extension.  I will then blow a gasket.  Meanwhile, I'm gon' be over here worried more about our foward corps and how we're stunting THOSE prospects.  ;)

/endGreen/DEFENSErant

Edited by e_prime

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11 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I

If youre complaining that Green is taking away a roster spot you're looney. Ericsson, Jensen, Dekeyser and starting to look like Kronwall are occupying those spots. If you are too trash to steal one of their jobs, you have no business being on this team.

No one is saying those guys aren’t wasting roster spots. But that doesn’t mean you go and hand another roster spot to a veteran. We had someone off the books on a defensive unit that is basically overstocked. We went and stocked it more. Absolutely no reason to do it. Green doesn’t help us get into playoffs and not having him wouldn’t have affected “the kids” badly whatsoever. 

It’s like buying a KitKat just to stock up your cupboard with more chocolate when you’re on a diet. Might taste good, but better off not buying any.

Edited by kickazz

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