Official 2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

10 hours ago, kickazz said:

Really really well is exaggerating though; still no young goalie or top defensive player besides possibly 1 or 2 1B players in sight. Aka the defensive depth outside of Cholo, Hronek, MAYBE McIsaac, is a complete toss up. Larkin is a 2C at best so need a 1 center still. There’s still a lot of work that needs to be done and having a fresh perspective may help. Having said all this were still in a much better position than we were years ago. For instance our wingers are going to be really good. We should be set for 2-4 Center position easily for years to come. 

Far as Holland, GM tenure gets stale too not just coaches. It’s why Lou leaving Jersey for Toronto was probably a good thing for Toronto and now even the Islanders.

Let’s say Holland decided to part ways this summer and we were looking for a new GM, objectively speaking, Yzerman would still be a top candidate even if didn’t have the Red Wing history/nostalgia on his resume. He’s got a good track record as a GM and is a top candidate to fill any teams position at the moment. 

2C at best?? Larkin is a ppg 22 year old. He's absolutely a #1 center already and may still become "elite" in the near future. Watch a game.

IDK what you're so convinced about with our future wingers. They are just as much a toss up as our goal prospects and D prospects.

"Babs voice is stale, he needs to go in favor of Blashill" said all the dumbest Red Wings fans

Ya'll will be calling to fire Yzerman within 2 seasons

 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

We have plenty "young goalies", just none that are close yet. I would say that any of Larsson, Petruzzelli or Eliasson have as good a shot as any young goalie prospect to become a quality NHL starter. Projecting goalies is near impossible, but I would say the probability of at least one of those three panning out is fairly high.

I don't know how there's anyone still questioning Larkin being a legit 1C. He's not elite, but he absolutely is a number one center in the league. He's among the top 20-30 centers in just about every category, despite having relatively weak linemates. Imagine what he'd be able to do with an elite winger like Kucherov or Pastrnak. Hopefully he'll have one over the next couple years in Zadina, or Hughes / Kakko. He's still only 22 years old. Give him another year or two to continue his development, and some help on his wings, and he'll be over a point per game player for sure.

The biggest holes on this team right now in my opinion are top six right-handed sniper, 2nd line center, number one defenseman, and number one goalie. The top six right-handed sniper is not currently in the system, so we'll have to acquire one through the draft, free agency or trade. I don't think the number one defenseman is in the system, but teams have proven they can win without an elite, number one defenseman, as long as they have four or five really good defensemen. I think we should have three in the three that you mentioned, and maybe the other is in the system as well, or maybe we'll get one in the upcoming draft. I think Veleno will become our number two center, and like I mentioned above, I think one of the goalie prospects currently in the system will develop into a number one goaltender.

Holland has done a fantastic job the past couple years acquiring picks for the future. We had four picks in the top 36 last year and hopefully we'll have a similar number after the trade deadline again this year. If we can acquire another one or two picks in the top 40, and get lucky in the draft lottery (both likely), I really like our chances of filling another couple of those holes.

We need the islanders to start dropping f*** I thought at the least we’d have 3 of the top 35 picks but islanders being where they are is a total shock 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

7 minutes ago, kickazz said:

With all the tools that we do have in the system, we could get a new GM who is willing to speed things up through trades and free agency and turn the rebuild pretty quick. 

It’s like the “stale voice” that I mentioned. When a new guy comes in he’s almost expected to do something different just like any new CEO during a company turnover would. 

We’ve got some pieces available, some promising players, bring a new guy in and let’s get fancy with it.

Which pieces do you consider untouchable?  I'm pretty much open to any of our players being involved in a trade, including Larkin.  If Buffalo offers Dahlin for Larkin, I do it in less than a second.

[Dabura 12,206]

6 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

2C at best?? Larkin is a ppg 22 year old. He's absolutely a #1 center already and may still become "elite" in the near future. Watch a game.

IDK what you're so convinced about with our future wingers. They are just as much a toss up as our goal prospects and D prospects.

"Babs voice is stale, he needs to go in favor of Blashill" said all the dumbest Red Wings fans

Ya'll will be calling to fire Yzerman within 2 seasons

Yzerman doesn't even have the job yet and I already want him fired from it.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

If we had every single piece we needed to contend then the rebuild would be complete and we wouldn't be having this conversation.  We've got a very good up and coming team, with lots of talent at all positions (maybe outside of goalie).  And Holland was able to do so without a single top five pick.  That's pretty good work. 

Next you'll give him credit for building the Canadian Olympic team. 

Yzerman has done a fine job.  But his job was made 100 percent easier by the fact that Stamkos and Hedman were already on the team when took the job.  It's also worth noting that people have criticized Holland for years for already having Yzerman, Fedorov, and Lidstrom on the team when he became GM, which is true. But at least he won with the team he inherited.  Stevie is still a little light on Cup wins as a GM for people to gush over him the way they do.

Ok here we go with some more of your idiotic nonsense , yzerman didn’t sign undrafted players in Johnson and gourde? Was there for kucherov , point , vasilevsky and brought in McDonough and Miller but hey let’s s*** on the guy cause he was lucky to have stamkos and hedman

no ones disputing that hedman and stamkos are all stars but a lot of gms inherit great players, example mcdavid and oilers and a lot of the gms never accomplish anything , so instead of trying to s*** on one of the best players in wings history in favour of a gm who’s accomplished nothing in the last 10 yrs but give our team cap problems with horrible deals (those are the facts) why don’t you give credit to yzerman

and Holland won those cups prior to the cap era and had the best coach in hockey history behind the bench and that’s the facts not an excuse , Bowman is a legend 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, Dabura said:

Yzerman doesn't even have the job yet and I already want him fired from it.

As the progressive think tank that we are, LGW should just start the fire stevie memes now so that we can continue to be light years ahead of the curve

suck me HF boards

[krsmith17 7,191]

25 minutes ago, kickazz said:

With all the tools that we do have in the system, we could get a new GM who is willing to speed things up through trades and free agency and turn the rebuild pretty quick. 

It’s like the “stale voice” that I mentioned. When a new guy comes in he’s almost expected to do something different just like any new CEO during a company turnover would. 

We’ve got some pieces available, some promising players, bring a new guy in and let’s get fancy with it.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of this. I was basically just disagreeing with you on Larkin.

25 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

"Babs voice is stale, he needs to go in favor of Blashill" said all the dumbest Red Wings fans

Ya'll will be calling to fire Yzerman within 2 seasons

Babs voice was getting stale. It happens. Even the captain was sick of his s***. I definitely don't miss Babcock. Leafs fans are starting to feel the same way most Wings fans were feeling for the past couple years he was here. If he doesn't win with that roster in the next 2-3 years, he'll be out of Toronto.

[krsmith17 7,191]

32 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Which pieces do you consider untouchable?  I'm pretty much open to any of our players being involved in a trade, including Larkin.  If Buffalo offers Dahlin for Larkin, I do it in less than a second.

Well no s***. Which is why Buffalo would never make that trade.

If Winnipeg offers Laine for Athanasiou, I do it in less than a second...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

9 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't necessarily disagree with any of this. I was basically just disagreeing with you on Larkin.

Babs voice was getting stale. It happens. Even the captain was sick of his s***. I definitely don't miss Babcock. Leafs fans are starting to feel the same way most Wings fans were feeling for the past couple years he was here. If he doesn't win with that roster in the next 2-3 years, he'll be out of Toronto.

Leafs fans are disappointed he's taken them to the #4 team in the league? I knew they were ungrateful, but damn

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Well no s***. Which is why Buffalo would never make that trade.

If Winnipeg offers Laine for Athanasiou, I do it in less than a second...

What/who do you think Larkin is worth?  A lot of people on here think he's untouchable.

[kickazz 5,459]

59 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Yzerman doesn't even have the job yet and I already want him fired from it.

Yeah f*** him 

[kickazz 5,459]

Mike Babcock has quickly become the most overrated coach in modern hockey. He's won 1 stanley cup and gets paid 50 million for some atrocious contract and has barely put a dent in the playoff run for the Leafs. The Leafs won't win a cup under current dumb contract he's on. They'll probably re-sign him though. 

And anyone who says "well he won all those Gold medals for Canada". That's like crediting the USA coach for the Basketball team in the Olympics and ignoring the fact that those teams had Kobe, Shaq, Lebron James, etc on them. 

[Dabura 12,206]

17 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

What/who do you think Larkin is worth?  A lot of people on here think he's untouchable.

He's untouchable. 22-year-old point-per-game centerman with great leadership qualities on a very fair long-term contract. Zero reason to move him.

[kliq 3,755]

25 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

What/who do you think Larkin is worth?  A lot of people on here think he's untouchable.

 

1 minute ago, kickazz said:

Mike Babcock has quickly become the most overrated coach in modern hockey. He's won 1 stanley cup and gets paid 50 million for some atrocious contract and has barely put a dent in the playoff run for the Leafs. The Leafs won't win a cup under current dumb contract he's on. They'll probably re-sign him though. 

And anyone who says "well he won all those Gold medals for Canada". That's like crediting the USA coach for the Basketball team in the Olympics and ignoring the fact that those teams had Kobe, Shaq, Lebron James, etc on them. 

Are you saying Tyronn Lue are Steve Kerr are NOT the best NBA coaches of this generation!!!

1 minute ago, Dabura said:

He's untouchable. 22-year-old point-per-game centerman with great leadership qualities on a very fair long-term contract. Zero reason to move him.

I have to agree with Cady here, Larkin is not untouchable. I have zero desire to trade him, but if the right offer came along, I'd move him. With that said, the chances of that happening are pretty much slim to none.

 

[kickazz 5,459]

5 minutes ago, kliq said:

 

Are you saying Tyronn Lue are Steve Kerr are NOT the best NBA coaches of this generation!!!

Mike Babcock is so good he turned Sidney Crosby, John Tavares, Patrice Bergeron, Ryan Getzlaf, Drew Doughty, Duncan Keith, Corey Perry, Rick Nash, Carey Price into Olympic champions.

Tyronn Lue is the reason Lebron James is who he is.  

Edited February 10, 2019 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

The interesting thing with the impending Yzerman regime change IMO is what he may do with the staff. I think he gives Blashill at least a season before he even considers coaching changes.

Now that Tampa is good, can he even realistically lure any of his staff with him? I would like Verbeek back, but he's already an executive there and is probably untouchable. Jamie Pushor has history with us, but again he's already so far up the chain IDK if it's feasible...

One of the pulls could be Antonin Routa Sr., one of Tampa's main European scouts, as his son already works for us as a Euro scout. Stevie's brother Chris is probably also a realistic pull, maybe Phil Osaer their tendy scout, and possibly some of his buddies from Team Canada??

Mark Howe is probably on his way out over the next few years, and our North American amateur scouts haven't really discovered anything of note besides Athanasiou, Jensen, and Bertuzzi over the past 10+ years, I'd be fine with whole sale changes there.

[kickazz 5,459]

55 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Babs voice was getting stale. It happens. Even the captain was sick of his s***. 

Ye.

I think Holland ideology, hell even his presence is getting stale. He has nothing to prove here either. He's won 3/4 cups for this team and he's accomplished what he needed to. Yzerman would have a lot of motivation to prove himself to his fans in a GM role. If a new voice is needed I'd rather it be him than anyone else due to the fact that it's his home and it's a fan base that loves him and he'd want to keep them believing in him. Honestly he would have a lot of pressure on him and if anything that can be a good thing for a GM. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

31 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

What/who do you think Larkin is worth?  A lot of people on here think he's untouchable.

No player is "untouchable" in the true sense of the word. It's cliché, but true, if Gretzky can be traded, any player can be traded. I'm sure if Edmonton were offered Dahlin, Eichel, Mittelstadt, and a 1st round pick for McDavid and Lucic, they'd bite.

Larkin is untouchable in the sense that there is no trade that another team would be willing to make that would make enough sense for us to pull the trigger. We're not getting Dahlin or McDavid for Larkin. Why would we want to trade him? 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

14 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Mike Babcock has quickly become the most overrated coach in modern hockey. He's won 1 stanley cup and gets paid 50 million for some atrocious contract and has barely put a dent in the playoff run for the Leafs. The Leafs won't win a cup under current dumb contract he's on. They'll probably re-sign him though. 

And anyone who says "well he won all those Gold medals for Canada". That's like crediting the USA coach for the Basketball team in the Olympics and ignoring the fact that those teams had Kobe, Shaq, Lebron James, etc on them. 

I get it, we all hate the leafs, but their sitting right now as one of the best teams in the league, lets see how they manage this playoff run, but there's not a whole lot to criticize them on at the current moment, they're light years ahead of the Wings on all sides of the puck right now and ya'll just sound foolish

Edited February 10, 2019 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[Dabura 12,206]

5 minutes ago, kliq said:

I have to agree with Cady here, Larkin is not untouchable. I have zero desire to trade him, but if the right offer came along, I'd move him. With that said, the chances of that happening are pretty much slim to none.

Yeah, I mean, it's basically semantics. "Untouchable" = "I'd trade him for Rasmus Dahlin." Translation: He's not going anywhere, because no one's going to offer us that hypothetical deal that's too good to refuse.

Mind you, I'm just talking about the here and now. Maybe five years from now things have changed so much that moving Larkin is a worthwhile discussion. Though, even then, we're talking about the captain of the team, who will still be in his 20s and who will still be on a good contract.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

No player is "untouchable" in the true sense of the word. It's cliché, but true, if Gretzky can be traded, any player can be traded. I'm sure if Edmonton were offered Dahlin, Eichel, Mittelstadt, and a 1st round pick for McDavid and Lucic, they'd bite.

Larkin is untouchable in the sense that there is no trade that another team would be willing to make that would make enough sense for us to pull the trigger. We're not getting Dahlin or McDavid for Larkin. Why would we want to trade him? 

I tend to agree with this.  It would have to be a lights out trade like Ekblad+Trochek+1st Rounder.  Not going to sacrifice 22 year old captain material for older #1D material.

[Dabura 12,206]

Now, having said all that...if this is a Leafs forum, we're all 100% down with trading Larkin for whatever we can get in return because we'll never win a Cup with this bum because he slammed his stick against the boards a couple nights ago.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Now, having said all that...if this is a Leafs forum, we're all 100% down with trading Larkin for whatever we can get in return because we'll never win a Cup with this bum because he slammed his stick against the boards a couple nights ago.

The natural progression:

1. Blame 3rd pairing Dman
2. Blame coach
3. Blame goalie
4. Blame GM <--- you are here
5. Blame star players <--- Toronto, Ottawa, and Dallas are here
6. Blame Franzen <---- The Dalai Lama and Jesus are here

[Dabura 12,206]

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

The natural progression:

1. Blame 3rd pairing Dman
2. Blame coach
3. Blame goalie
4. Blame GM <--- you are here
5. Blame star players <--- Toronto, Ottawa, and Dallas are here
6. Blame Franzen <---- The Dalai Lama and Jesus are here

I'm just waiting to see who their next Larry Murphy is. Whoever it is, I hope he likes hot dogs.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

13 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I'm just waiting to see who their next Larry Murphy is. Whoever it is, I hope he likes hot dogs.

It was those scuba mask glasses he put on during his last season. Larry, we wanted to see your beautiful hot dog maw, don't hide that pretty face behind those gigantic frames.