Official 2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, LeftWinger said:

Good news on the Darren Helm NTC.  It states that NTC can be VOIDED between 6-15-2019 and the 2019-2020 TDL IF player is not in the top 9 TOI OR Team fails to make the playoffs. Well, June is approaching and obviously we did not qualify for the playoffs, so his NTC can be voided if they want to trade him at the draft or beyond!

Good work Leftwinger bro. I assume we'd probably have to retain salary on him unfortunately though.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Good work Leftwinger bro. I assume we'd probably have to retain salary on him unfortunately though.

I'm not thinking that they want to trade him, but it is good to know that is one less NTC that may  handcuff Yzerman. (or if Holland is still doing things after 6-15-19.  But you never know what may transpire come draft.  Maybe some team would want him.  He isn't bad, but IMO, just not enough room on our roster anymore. Cheaper, just as talented players we could bring up.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Oh lefty. Your ability to go from hopeless optimism to over-the-top pessimism is legendary.

 

[lomekian 201]

RE Rasmussen vs Hughes - I  wouldn't make the trade.

1) Comparing who is better when they are totally different players in style, physique, skillset and position seems like a futile task unless on is a totally different tier of player to the other.

2) Rasmussen has the potential to offer something to my mind more unique. Hughes undoubtedly has special skill and skating, but if Ras can develop more strength (as seems very likely given his size) and a bit more motor (more of a question mark), he could become the best net front guy in the league, and a very useful guy in the corners, on the boards and in the forecheck. I think hughes' style of d-man is increasingly common in junior and breaking into the league, so given our likely poor NHL performance next year as well, I give us a greater chance of picking up a hughes style guy than a Rasmussen style guy. Rasmussen is stylistically a bit of a throwback, and as long as there aren't too many of them on the roster, it could be useful in complement to others. Also, I;ve been sick of seeing us get dominated by middle line 6"4+ centers so much over the last decade, from Staal's to Bjugstad, and the potential of someone who matches up well against that sort of player, who is already defensively responsible is something I'm keen on.

3) Hughes is such a boom/bust player at the NHL level. We KNOW Rasmussen will be a useful NHL-er with a clearly defined skillset. Hughes may turn into a midget Erik Karlsson. But he may also be unable to cope defensively with the size mismatch as an NHL dman - what I've seen of him does leave question marks in this direction.

Of course, if we draft the younger hughes, I might answer differently, because one would assume they have a good understanding!

[LeftWinger 4,953]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Oh lefty. Your ability to go from hopeless optimism to over-the-top pessimism is legendary.

 

Huh? Not sure I understand, but ok. Where the pessimism is, I not sure. Also, I'm not even sure where the hopeless optimism is. I guess it's wrong to be optimistic in the off season.

Nevermind, guess it's not time to return yet.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Huh? Not sure I understand, but ok. Where the pessimism is, I not sure. Also, I'm not even sure where the hopeless optimism is. I guess it's wrong to be optimistic in the off season.

Nevermind, guess it's not time to return yet.

Hopeless optimism: Helm and Daley getting traded, getting Karlsson, etc.

Over-the-top pessimism: Holland, Blashill, Franzen, etc

I meant it in fondness

[kipwinger 8,521]

4 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

No. I said we don't know because it was never an option.

Also I think the comments by Draper were more about moving away from the "overripe"  mentality which existed for years, which a rebuilding team can't afford to do. The idea that you can expedite development is ludicrous. And I don't think that's what he was inferring, just that the team is moving away from keeping kids down longer than necessary and bringing them in as soon as they are ready.

What do you mean "no"?  Rasmussen is on the same trajectory.  Fact.  Both were drafted, played a draft plus one year in their junior leagues, and then skipped the AHL and went to the NHL.  There's no debate there.  You're making it seem like the Wings' were forced to do that when the truth is they could have easily left Rasmussen with Tri-City if he wasn't NHL ready.  He was.  And that's not really surprising given that he was a top ten pick. 

You're welcome to interpret Draper's comments however you want to.  Twice in that interview he brought up prospects getting to the NHL quicker than they had previously, and even compared Rasmussen to Larkin.  If you think that's just a coincidence then have at it pal. 

Draper said this in February of last year, sure sounds like a plan and not a team "stuck" with a guy because he's not eligible to play in the AHL: 

"Dan Cleary is out west right now watching Michael Rasmussen and Dennis Cholowski. Those guys have really made some big strides. We hope they can continue in their development, that they have a big summer. We need to expedite this process. We need to get these kids bigger and faster and stronger, quicker, to come in and start challenging for spots."

" We think Dylan Larkin is going to be an outstanding Red Wing for a long time. In him, Anthony Mantha, Andreas Athanasiou and Tyler Bertuzzi, we feel we have four real good young players. Then we have Cholowski who’s made a big step from last year to this year. Rasmussen, too. They can get here to the NHL faster these days with all the training they have at their disposal, like skating coaches. Then they need the passion, they need to love the game of hockey, and if they have all that, then they can get here faster than what we used to see. But that’s on them to come in and have an opportunity and take it. It starts with development camp, prospect tournament, training camp."

Edited February 28, 2019 by kipwinger

[Dabura 12,207]

10 hours ago, lomekian said:

RE Rasmussen vs Hughes - I  wouldn't make the trade.

1) Comparing who is better when they are totally different players in style, physique, skillset and position seems like a futile task unless on is a totally different tier of player to the other.

2) Rasmussen has the potential to offer something to my mind more unique. Hughes undoubtedly has special skill and skating, but if Ras can develop more strength (as seems very likely given his size) and a bit more motor (more of a question mark), he could become the best net front guy in the league, and a very useful guy in the corners, on the boards and in the forecheck. I think hughes' style of d-man is increasingly common in junior and breaking into the league, so given our likely poor NHL performance next year as well, I give us a greater chance of picking up a hughes style guy than a Rasmussen style guy. Rasmussen is stylistically a bit of a throwback, and as long as there aren't too many of them on the roster, it could be useful in complement to others. Also, I;ve been sick of seeing us get dominated by middle line 6"4+ centers so much over the last decade, from Staal's to Bjugstad, and the potential of someone who matches up well against that sort of player, who is already defensively responsible is something I'm keen on.

3) Hughes is such a boom/bust player at the NHL level. We KNOW Rasmussen will be a useful NHL-er with a clearly defined skillset. Hughes may turn into a midget Erik Karlsson. But he may also be unable to cope defensively with the size mismatch as an NHL dman - what I've seen of him does leave question marks in this direction.

Of course, if we draft the younger hughes, I might answer differently, because one would assume they have a good understanding!

Pretty much this.

[kickazz 5,459]

3 hours ago, Dabura said:

Pretty much this.

Nyquististhefuture may not agree if he reads it. (Big if) 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

17 hours ago, kipwinger said:

What do you mean "no"?  Rasmussen is on the same trajectory.  Fact.  Both were drafted, played a draft plus one year in their junior leagues, and then skipped the AHL and went to the NHL.  There's no debate there.  You're making it seem like the Wings' were forced to do that when the truth is they could have easily left Rasmussen with Tri-City if he wasn't NHL ready.  He was.  And that's not really surprising given that he was a top ten pick. 

You're welcome to interpret Draper's comments however you want to.  Twice in that interview he brought up prospects getting to the NHL quicker than they had previously, and even compared Rasmussen to Larkin.  If you think that's just a coincidence then have at it pal. 

Draper said this in February of last year, sure sounds like a plan and not a team "stuck" with a guy because he's not eligible to play in the AHL: 

"Dan Cleary is out west right now watching Michael Rasmussen and Dennis Cholowski. Those guys have really made some big strides. We hope they can continue in their development, that they have a big summer. We need to expedite this process. We need to get these kids bigger and faster and stronger, quicker, to come in and start challenging for spots."

" We think Dylan Larkin is going to be an outstanding Red Wing for a long time. In him, Anthony Mantha, Andreas Athanasiou and Tyler Bertuzzi, we feel we have four real good young players. Then we have Cholowski who’s made a big step from last year to this year. Rasmussen, too. They can get here to the NHL faster these days with all the training they have at their disposal, like skating coaches. Then they need the passion, they need to love the game of hockey, and if they have all that, then they can get here faster than what we used to see. But that’s on them to come in and have an opportunity and take it. It starts with development camp, prospect tournament, training camp."

I mean "No" because I wasnt suggesting anything. The options for Rasmussen was WHL or NHL. There was no option for the AHL. Therefore we can't know where he would be now if it was an option.

Its entirely possible that he was making the NHL anyway even if GR was on the table. Its also a reasonable possibility that the team would have sent him down if the choice was there. None of us in here can know that.

I am not claiming to know where he would be under different circumstances, just that there would have been another possibility.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Can we out tank Ottawa? Or are they unstoppable?

 

And LA and Edmonton need to seriously back the f*** off like fo real you don't need to be down here

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

59 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Can we out tank Ottawa? Or are they unstoppable?

 

And LA and Edmonton need to seriously back the f*** off like fo real you don't need to be down here

No s***. There should be a radius clause. A cup or 1st rounder within the past 5 years? No lottery win for you.

I mean, if the NHL really was serious about true parity instead of just enforcing a hard cap so the league's albatros franchises can hang on. 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

9 hours ago, kickazz said:

Nyquististhefuture may not agree if he reads it. (Big if) 

Beat it.  Its almost dead.

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

LA lost again today, 0-6-4 their last 10. I'm confident we can't out tank Ottawa, but now I'm not even sure we can out tank the clowns in LA.

Anaheim also looks seriously terrible.

[Dabura 12,207]

4 hours ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

LA lost again today, 0-6-4 their last 10. I'm confident we can't out tank Ottawa, but now I'm not even sure we can out tank the clowns in LA.

Anaheim also looks seriously terrible.

LA did get a point tho, so they're currently only a point behind us, with the same number of games played. Yay?

We're probably gonna finish, like, 5th from the bottom and pick, like, 7th. I guess I'm ok with that. I continue to believe that after Hughes and Kakko there's a group of 8(+) players who make up the next tier and they're all equally (un)likely to become really good players.

Edited March 1, 2019 by Dabura

[krsmith17 7,191]

21 minutes ago, Dabura said:

LA did get a point tho, so they're currently only a point behind us, with the same number of games played. Yay?

We're probably gonna finish, like, 5th from the bottom and pick, like, 7th. I guess I'm ok with that. I continue to believe that after Hughes and Kakko there's a group of 8(+) players who make up the next tier and they're all equally (un)likely to become really good players.

Where is all the HYPE??? Did we not just lose our last game EIGHT to ONE??? We're not going to out-tank Ottawa (Colorado), but we will finish in the bottom 3. Regardless where we finish though, we will win the "Jack" Pot in the Draft Lottery...

Edited March 1, 2019 by krsmith17

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

If we don't get a top 2 pick, we are really going to suffer as fans.

[kickazz 5,459]

1 minute ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

If we don't get a top 2 pick, we are really going to suffer as fans.

Wow, what a drama queen.

Edited March 1, 2019 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

52 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Where is all the HYPE??? Did we not just lose our last game EIGHT to ONE??? We're not going to out-tank Ottawa (Colorado), but we will finish in the bottom 3. Regardless where we finish though, we will win the "Jack" Pot in the Draft Lottery...

For Christ sake Colorado has that Ottawa pick. I totally forgot. Must be good to be an Avs fan right now watching that Sens implosion all year. Imagine if they add Hughes... stupid

[Wing Across The Pond 196]

10 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

For Christ sake Colorado has that Ottawa pick. I totally forgot. Must be good to be an Avs fan right now watching that Sens implosion all year. Imagine if they add Hughes... stupid

Does Colorado getting the first pick change things? Like if they have free reign over any player, but realise they need something other than Hughes surely they have less pressure to pick him?

They're not stacked, but are in better shape than we are; but could they get away with not choosing Hughes when Ottawa would be laughed out of the league if they did the same? Or is it just a case of "sign him and deal with it later"?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

13 minutes ago, Wing Across The Pond said:

Does Colorado getting the first pick change things? Like if they have free reign over any player, but realise they need something other than Hughes surely they have less pressure to pick him?

They're not stacked, but are in better shape than we are; but could they get away with not choosing Hughes when Ottawa would be laughed out of the league if they did the same? Or is it just a case of "sign him and deal with it later"?

I still think they take one of Hughes or Kakko. They have good players but not a ton of depth, and best available should still be their priority I assume.

[Dabura 12,207]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Where is all the HYPE??? Did we not just lose our last game EIGHT to ONE??? We're not going to out-tank Ottawa (Colorado), but we will finish in the bottom 3. Regardless where we finish though, we will win the "Jack" Pot in the Draft Lottery...

I WANT TO BELIEVE

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I WANT TO BELIEVE

 

Stirs my loins

[Dabura 12,207]

3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Stirs my loins

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, Dabura said:

If only our veterans aged this well.