OHL Racism

[Keep Your Stick On the Ice 67]

http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/23420650/detroit-red-wings-prospect-givani-subject-racial-slurs

 

I'm wondering how the OHL execs will come down on this.

[13dangledangle 957]

It's a shame things like this keep happening, why people can't keep it about hockey is beyond me-was it just the fans participating in these hate crimes or players too?  

[kickazz 5,459]

Sean Avery 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

I hate to say it, but I wonder if he was getting it from the other team as well. I can totally understand the gesture than. That said, if they really want to curb that kind of behavior from the stands, than they will have to consider either limiting alcohol consumption or banning it all together. Being intoxicated is no excuse, but when you offer fans a product that causes them to lose control, you have to reevaluate how serious your commitment is to stopping that kind of behavior.

BTW, I am assuming that they serve beer at OHL games?

[Dabura 12,206]

Racism is a thing and it's dumb. Unfortunately, crying wolf about instances of racism and "hate crime" is also a thing and is also dumb.

http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/

I'm sympathetic to Smith and anyone who has to put up with stupid s*** like what's being described in this case. However, in the absence of hard evidence, and with the understanding that Smith is a bit of a hothead, I'm not about to go full WIIM and pen a column about how "Society's acceptance of racism has a glaring effect on hockey culture."

I'll leave it at that.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Dabura

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

7 hours ago, Dabura said:

Racism is a thing and it's dumb. Unfortunately, crying wolf about instances of racism and "hate crime" is also a thing and is also dumb.

http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/

I'm sympathetic to Smith and anyone who has to put up with stupid s*** like what's being described in this case. However, in the absence of hard evidence, and with the understanding that Smith is a bit of a hothead, I'm not about to go full WIIM and pen a column about how "Society's acceptance of racism has a glaring effect on hockey culture."

I'll leave it at that.

The thing about racism (or prejudice in general) is that it will always exist as long as someone FEELS victimized by it. If we are to truly stamp out prejudice of any kind, than we must not only stop tolerating those who display it, but also stop tolerating those who judge the actions of others as something its not. Just assuming you are being discriminated against by others, because they are different than you, is prejudiced in itself. That's what the Social Justice Warriors intentionally ignore and why the problem will never go away until that is also addressed.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

8 hours ago, Dabura said:

Racism is a thing and it's dumb. Unfortunately, crying wolf about instances of racism and "hate crime" is also a thing and is also dumb.

http://www.fakehatecrimes.org/

I'm sympathetic to Smith and anyone who has to put up with stupid s*** like what's being described in this case. However, in the absence of hard evidence, and with the understanding that Smith is a bit of a hothead, I'm not about to go full WIIM and pen a column about how "Society's acceptance of racism has a glaring effect on hockey culture."

I'll leave it at that.

So ur saying there's fake news about fake news?

Edited May 8, 2018 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[martyrme19 73]

On 5/8/2018 at 12:36 AM, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

The thing about racism (or prejudice in general) is that it will always exist as long as someone FEELS victimized by it. If we are to truly stamp out prejudice of any kind, than we must not only stop tolerating those who display it, but also stop tolerating those who judge the actions of others as something its not. Just assuming you are being discriminated against by others, because they are different than you, is prejudiced in itself. That's what the Social Justice Warriors intentionally ignore and why the problem will never go away until that is also addressed.

Jesus dude - haven't heard it put this way before, but it made a lot of sense.

[Mckinley25 677]

It doesn’t make sense.  It is easy not to be racist, victim blaming is a poor attempt at deflecting.  If people stopped being racist, racism would end.  It’s simple, any confusion that follows only follows the primary cause.  Obfuscation doesn’t serve moral action, it only hinders that envoy.   Contemptuous mention of social justice warriors just adds another layer of transparency to an already indigestible position.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 hours ago, Mckinley25 said:

It doesn’t make sense.  It is easy not to be racist, victim blaming is a poor attempt at deflecting.  If people stopped being racist, racism would end.  It’s simple, any confusion that follows only follows the primary cause.  Obfuscation doesn’t serve moral action, it only hinders that envoy.   Contemptuous mention of social justice warriors just adds another layer of transparency to an already indigestible position.

Words 

[Swedish_Mafia 2]

Lurker here usually, but had to join to respond to some of the posts that I think are really off-base in this thread. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/givani-smith-racism-post-season-1.4653588

He received racial slurs from the crowd and death threats and had to have a police escort. Fans verified seeing a player on the other team making "monkey" gestures toward him. And they talk about him experiencing similar incidents throughout the year.

You can read this from Gemel Smith (written last year) about him and his brother being frequent targets for racist comments while in the OHL.

https://theupsetsports.com/for-gemel-smith-mental-strength-goes-a-long-way-when-dealing-with-racism-in-hockey/

Really disappointing to see the reaction is to doubt the victim before anything else - and with no basis for doing so. You should know that racism is a problem within the hockey community since there's plenty examples we've seen to glimpse that in the resent past. For another incident involving the Greyhounds - John Vanbiesbrouck stepped down as GM after calling Trevor Daley, then his own team's captain, a N-----

Other public incidents: 

- whether it's the banana thrown at Wayne Simmons in London, On.

- During the lockout, Czech fans also chanted "monkey" at Wayne Simmonds

- Kevin Weekes also had a banana thrown at him.

- Sean Avery supposedly yelling a racist epithet at George Laraque

- Blackhawks fans banned for life for heckling Devante Smith-Pelly with racial slurs 

- If you only believe video, you can search and find Subban having the N word (bleeped) thrown at him an being told to go back to Africa by a Bruins fan. Also, there was that twitter-hate storm against him that was much publicized during that series.

-  Krys Barch suspended for making a racist comment at Subban

- Maybe you'll trust Joel Ward's mom when she said he grew up with that after an incident where he was flooded with online hate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puiLRJWn1jo

- Such Twitter hate storms and death threats were also aimed at J.T Brown when he kneeled for the national anthem.

There's enough of these public incidents to glimpse what most black NHLers surely go through it at some point. I'm mean, there are only about 30 black NHL players in the league and of incidents I listed 7 involve current NHL players - so that's about a quarter of black NHLers involved publicized incidents of racism and I'm sure there's more if you want to search - not to mention which doesn't get picked up on camera or audio or not reported - in juniors especially it is reported as a bigger problem. All examples that should lead one to give Smith's claim credence.

And, yes, sure some people might make false claims, but against the Everest sized problem of racism, it's a molehill. And where's the examples of that would lead you to think that likely? Has an OHL or NHL player ever done that?

And why would he do that? He was suspended for the game. It's wasn't a lessened punishment.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Swedish_Mafia

[LeftWinger 4,936]

Dude, give it up. You are now just mocking the Mods.

[kickazz 5,459]

Wow this is all politics.

I’m reporting every single one of you. You too @ChristopherReevesLegs. Even though you just said “words”. I’m still reporting you because I don’t like you.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

51 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Wow this is all politics.

I’m reporting every single one of you. You too @ChristopherReevesLegs. Even though you just said “words”. I’m still reporting you because I don’t like you.

[kickazz 5,459]

15 hours ago, Mckinley25 said:

It doesn’t make sense.  It is easy not to be racist, victim blaming is a poor attempt at deflecting.  If people stopped being racist, racism would end.  It’s simple, any confusion that follows only follows the primary cause.  Obfuscation doesn’t serve moral action, it only hinders that envoy.   Contemptuous mention of social justice warriors just adds another layer of transparency to an already indigestible position.

My advance comp teacher from high school would say this is a “wordy” paragraph. 

[Buppy 1,720]

32 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Stop supporting racism. Whitewashed Charlie. Pygmy slavery. Glorification of white privilege. Not to mention Dahl's anti-semetism and body-shaming. SMH

[Dabura 12,206]

If folks want to have a dialogue with me about this, we should probably take it to PMs. I don't think I can engage in a nuanced discussion on this topic without getting decidedly "political," and I know this forum has a strict No Politics policy.

Edited May 10, 2018 by Dabura

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

If folks want to have a dialogue with me about this, we should probably take it to PMs. I don't think I can engage in a nuanced discussion on this topic without getting decidedly "political," and I know this forum has a strict No Politics policy.

Politics should be allowed again because it will bring in a lot of posters. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

18 hours ago, Mckinley25 said:

It doesn’t make sense.  It is easy not to be racist, victim blaming is a poor attempt at deflecting.  If people stopped being racist, racism would end.  It’s simple, any confusion that follows only follows the primary cause.  Obfuscation doesn’t serve moral action, it only hinders that envoy.   Contemptuous mention of social justice warriors just adds another layer of transparency to an already indigestible position.

No it wouldn't. Racism can be blamed for a lot of things. But not every negative thing that happens to someone who is not "privileged" is racism. It's too often used as a scapegoat to deflect away from personal responsibility or is too often used as a reason for bad things happening to someone that have nothing to do with race. And as long as something can be gained by it, it will continue to be used, or abused. If someone "believes" that they were discriminated against based on the fact that the person who offended them is not of the same race, that is also discrimination, because you are prejudging someone you don't know based on the fact that they are of a different group. Prejudgment and prejudice are synonymous.The idea that the problem is completely one sided is just simply not true. False claims do happen. And assuming that just because someone claims racism that it must be is just simply not the case every time. We are all human, we all make mistakes, the idea that someone can't misinterpret or misunderstand the actions of another and automatically conclude racism is wrong. Rushing to judgment is wrong. If you think that every person who claims discrimination really is a victim and that there aren't people who take advantage of it, then I don't know what to tell you. I have personally seen on may occasions people crying racism when they knew it wasn't simply to get something they wouldn't get otherwise. That's not victim blaming. it's reality. Last time I checked, prejudging, profiling, or stereotyping is wrong. And it should be wrong under any circumstances. We can't just believe every cry of racism as fact and punish the "offender" just because they were accused of it without proof. If that means I am "blaming the victim" then I guess the U.S. Constitution and Universal Declaration of Human Rights do too.

15 hours ago, Swedish_Mafia said:

Lurker here usually, but had to join to respond to some of the posts that I think are really off-base in this thread. 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitchener-waterloo/givani-smith-racism-post-season-1.4653588

He received racial slurs from the crowd and death threats and had to have a police escort. Fans verified seeing a player on the other team making "monkey" gestures toward him. And they talk about him experiencing similar incidents throughout the year.

You can read this from Gemel Smith (written last year) about him and his brother being frequent targets for racist comments while in the OHL.

https://theupsetsports.com/for-gemel-smith-mental-strength-goes-a-long-way-when-dealing-with-racism-in-hockey/

Really disappointing to see the reaction is to doubt the victim before anything else - and with no basis for doing so. You should know that racism is a problem within the hockey community since there's plenty examples we've seen to glimpse that in the resent past. For another incident involving the Greyhounds - John Vanbiesbrouck stepped down as GM after calling Trevor Daley, then his own team's captain, a N-----

Other public incidents: 

- whether it's the banana thrown at Wayne Simmons in London, On.

- During the lockout, Czech fans also chanted "monkey" at Wayne Simmonds

- Kevin Weekes also had a banana thrown at him.

- Sean Avery supposedly yelling a racist epithet at George Laraque

- Blackhawks fans banned for life for heckling Devante Smith-Pelly with racial slurs 

- If you only believe video, you can search and find Subban having the N word (bleeped) thrown at him an being told to go back to Africa by a Bruins fan. Also, there was that twitter-hate storm against him that was much publicized during that series.

-  Krys Barch suspended for making a racist comment at Subban

- Maybe you'll trust Joel Ward's mom when she said he grew up with that after an incident where he was flooded with online hate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puiLRJWn1jo

- Such Twitter hate storms and death threats were also aimed at J.T Brown when he kneeled for the national anthem.

There's enough of these public incidents to glimpse what most black NHLers surely go through it at some point. I'm mean, there are only about 30 black NHL players in the league and of incidents I listed 7 involve current NHL players - so that's about a quarter of black NHLers involved publicized incidents of racism and I'm sure there's more if you want to search - not to mention which doesn't get picked up on camera or audio or not reported - in juniors especially it is reported as a bigger problem. All examples that should lead one to give Smith's claim credence.

And, yes, sure some people might make false claims, but against the Everest sized problem of racism, it's a molehill. And where's the examples of that would lead you to think that likely? Has an OHL or NHL player ever done that?

And why would he do that? He was suspended for the game. It's wasn't a lessened punishment.

No one is saying it doesn't happen, nor that it didn't happen in this case. I believe it did.

Bold: Last time I checked, proof is required. Or should we just throw every guy in prison who was accused of something just because someone else said so? That would be a violation of the Civil Rights that so many victims of racism fought for. Again we have become so overly sensitive and easily offended as a culture that we are far too often rushing to judgment without requiring the burden of proof.(Person A was discriminated against so it must be true of Person B as well) If that's blaming the victim (to require proof) than yeah, I guess I'm guilty of that.

[Mckinley25 677]

12 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

No it wouldn't. Racism can be blamed for a lot of things. But not every negative thing that happens to someone who is not "privileged" is racism. It's too often used as a scapegoat to deflect away from personal responsibility or is too often used as a reason for bad things happening to someone that have nothing to do with race. And as long as something can be gained by it, it will continue to be used, or abused. If someone "believes" that they were discriminated against based on the fact that the person who offended them is not of the same race, that is also discrimination, because you are prejudging someone you don't know based on the fact that they are of a different group. Prejudgment and prejudice are synonymous.The idea that the problem is completely one sided is just simply not true. False claims do happen. And assuming that just because someone claims racism that it must be is just simply not the case every time. We are all human, we all make mistakes, the idea that someone can't misinterpret or misunderstand the actions of another and automatically conclude racism is wrong. Rushing to judgment is wrong. If you think that every person who claims discrimination really is a victim and that there aren't people who take advantage of it, then I don't know what to tell you. I have personally seen on may occasions people crying racism when they knew it wasn't simply to get something they wouldn't get otherwise. That's not victim blaming. it's reality. Last time I checked, prejudging, profiling, or stereotyping is wrong. And it should be wrong under any circumstances. We can't just believe every cry of racism as fact and punish the "offender" just because they were accused of it without proof. If that means I am "blaming the victim" then I guess the U.S. Constitution and Universal Declaration of Human Rights do too.

No one is saying it doesn't happen, nor that it didn't happen in this case. I believe it did.

Bold: Last time I checked, proof is required. Or should we just throw every guy in prison who was accused of something just because someone else said so? That would be a violation of the Civil Rights that so many victims of racism fought for. Again we have become so overly sensitive and easily offended as a culture that we are far too often rushing to judgment without requiring the burden of proof.(Person A was discriminated against so it must be true of Person B as well) If that's blaming the victim (to require proof) than yeah, I guess I'm guilty of that.

I never claimed there are not incorrect accusations of racism as you seem to assert here.  My contention is with those situations having any impact on ending racism, in fact I pointed out why that won’t work.  I know I don’t always speak with the precision and clarity these topics deserve or even demand, but my victim blaming comment is not about incident specific events but a larger trend in shifting focus to the blowback as if the solution hinges on the casualties rather than the cause.  

[GMRwings1983 8,793]

This thread is no fun without kipwinger.  

[kickazz 5,459]

@kipwinger where you at

3 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

This thread is no fun without kipwinger.  

And @frankgrimes

[chaps80 1,591]

It's OK. Chris Rock said once they can figure out how to make a heated hockey rink, black people will take this sport over too. They really do dominate everything else. Hockey is a predominantly white sport, so there will always be racist dickheads. Not excusing it, just how it is.

Jackie Robinson faced more racism and violence and threats than probably anyone in the history of sport when he broke into MLB, but he dealt with it, developed very thick skin, and showed em on the field that he not only belonged, he was a dominant player. The black players in hockey need to do the same. Just ignore it and prove you belong. Flipping out and letting it get to you just makes it worse. 

Edited May 13, 2018 by chaps80