Andreas Athanasiou Officially Signed 2 yrs. $3M AAV

[kickazz 5,459]

2 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

 

Also, you're quoting an article from January 5th. Here's more recent articles from February.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2018/02/13/red-wings-jeff-blashill-explains-benching-andreas-athanasiou/336056002/

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2018/02/14/benching-wings-athanasiou-ready-make-amends/110416558/

Blashill has either benched or scratched Athanasiou, 23, several times over the last two seasons, after a sub-par effort from the young forward. Few players on the roster have Athanasiou’s skill or speed, but the inconsistency and lack of engaging on the ice every game has been a negative mark early in his career. (Is this talking out of the ass as you say?)

After Wednesday’s practice, Athanasiou was disappointed, but he understood Blashill’s actions.

“No one likes to sit but it’s the way it is,” Athanasiou said. “We got the two points, that’s the biggest thing. It’s never fun not hearing (your name called to get on the ice) but there’s nothing you can do about it. He has to make his decisions to win the game, and we won the game.

“I don’t know if you can be surprised. The way the game unfolds, he has to make coaching adjustments and line matchups and that’s the way some games go.

And then there's Z's comments about a month later.

https://detroit.cbslocal.com/2018/03/09/zetterberg-chastises-young-red-wings-for-poke-and-hope-hockey/

Yep. So am I talking out of MY azz or Z's or Blashill's or HSJ's or Kulfan's. I'm confused. Cuz it sounds to me like we are all saying the same thing.

I quoted you the coaches opinion. You've given me speculation and ass talking; which you seem to be a pro at (not surprised since you voted for guy that does the same). And I've also mentioned in my post that the kids in general are young and need to improve. But all you've done is talk AA down.  

Objectively, AA's minutes went up and he's gotten a contract some people here thing is overpayment. Subjectively you're extrapolating your ass into nonsense. And I'm pointing out that your hate for AA is far fetched. 

Additionally, if AA was "good enough" up into Jan 5 and all of a sudden things went down hill which caused him to get benched in February, that still doesn't negate the fact that he was getting praised for his first half season performance by Blashill. You on the other hand are coming up with a narrative the he simply hasn't improved, is stubborn and refuses to be coached. The direct quote from Blashill in January says otherwise. So unless you have a quote from someone in the organization that explicitly says "AA refuses to be coached" then you're talking out your ass. Constantly. Like more than Trump does. Maybe even more than Bush and his WMD nonsense in Iraq. 

Edited July 17, 2018 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

14 hours ago, kickazz said:

You're right, he isn't. But it's good that AA is already being compared to him. Shows Nyquist's worth. Especially because AA is already better than him. 

No s***, but having a premature discussion about him being elite or not is stupid af and using his "elite" status as a supporting argument against him is also stupid af. It shouldn't even be in the discussion because nobody on the Red Wings is elite. We have an elite player in his twilight years and that's Z. That's all.  

I dont think AA has passed Nyquist on the depth chart yet. Although that could change in the first week if AA brings it I think. Whos better? Idk theyre both better at different things. I think Nyquist is more the style of player the Red Wings like in their system thou. Regardless, i think AA v Goose is the real s***ty comparison being made here.

Not sure what ur on about, I haven't used AA "not being elite" against him. 

[kickazz 5,459]

10 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I dont think AA has passed Nyquist on the depth chart yet. Although that could change in the first week if AA brings it I think. Whos better? Idk theyre both better at different things. I think Nyquist is more the style of player the Red Wings like in their system thou. Regardless, i think AA v Goose is the real s***ty comparison being made here.

Not sure what ur on about, I haven't used AA "not being elite" against him. 

I'm not saying you are for either of those. Neonaxi there has brought it up and I was speaking out loud that AA or anyone on the team at this point can't even be in a conversation about being elite. And using that as an argument to define AA is just dumb and an unnecessary and inapt way to criticize a youngster.

Edited July 17, 2018 by kickazz

[kickazz 5,459]

6 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

 I think Nyquist is more the style of player the Red Wings like in their system thou

Thank you for bringing this up. And it's exactly my point. AA's style isn't a bad one and he certainly shouldn't be criticized for his strengths (aka him using his speed and vision for breakaways and looking for outlet passes off the bench). The Babcockian style of "defense first" is all but one style of coaching. 

Blashill has adopted that style, although Blashill prefers his defensemen jumping in on the forecheck (something Babcock was against). Sure AA can improve one certain parts of his game much like Larkin, Mantha, and youngsters in general can. But people using the whole "oh all he does is score on breakaways blah blah" argument sounds pretty stupid. Scoring on breakways is a good thing and a good skill, not a bad one.  

Edited July 17, 2018 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

16 hours ago, kickazz said:

Thank you for bringing this up. And it's exactly my point. AA's style isn't a bad one and he certainly shouldn't be criticized for his strengths (aka him using his speed and vision for breakaways and looking for outlet passes off the bench). The Babcockian style of "defense first" is all but one style of coaching. 

Blashill has adopted that style, although Blashill prefers his defensemen jumping in on the forecheck (something Babcock was against). Sure AA can improve one certain parts of his game much like Larkin, Mantha, and youngsters in general can. But people using the whole "oh all he does is score on breakaways blah blah" argument sounds pretty stupid. Scoring on breakways is a good thing and a good skill, not a bad one.  

I don't disagree, but I'm not so worried about the Babcockian defense theory, I'm more worried that AA is one-dimensional. I like speed, I like breakaways, but successful breakaway attempts for AA account for less than 0.01% of his shifts on the ice. He needs to provide something else away from the puck and with the puck to warrant more ice time.

He needs to greatly improve his playmaking and scoring ability in the cycle (this is where Nyquist has him beat). He needs to forecheck hard and win offensive zone turnovers. He needs to backcheck hard and win defensive zone turnovers. I'm confident he can learn to forecheck/backcheck hard if he tries, I'm not as confident about the playmaking ability.

If he decides to commit to D in the offensive/neutral/defensive zone, then great, we have the Darren Helm we always wanted. A speedy 3rd line center/winger who can shut down opponents and make you pay for over-committing in the O-zone via the breakaway. I'd be thrilled with that, but obviously I'd like him to do better than Helm+

 

[kickazz 5,459]

10 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I don't disagree, but I'm not so worried about the Babcockian defense theory, I'm more worried that AA is one-dimensional. I like speed, I like breakaways, but successful breakaway attempts for AA account for less than 0.01% of his shifts on the ice. He needs to provide something else away from the puck and with the puck to warrant more ice time.

He needs to greatly improve his playmaking and scoring ability in the cycle (this is where Nyquist has him beat). He needs to forecheck hard and win offensive zone turnovers. He needs to backcheck hard and win defensive zone turnovers. I'm confident he can learn to forecheck/backcheck hard if he tries, I'm not as confident about the playmaking ability.

If he decides to commit to D in the offensive/neutral/defensive zone, then great, we have the Darren Helm we always wanted. A speedy 3rd line center/winger who can shut down opponents and make you pay for over-committing in the O-zone via the breakaway. I'd be thrilled with that, but obviously I'd like him to do better than Helm+

 

Those are the key words here. "What we always wanted". At this point, I'd rather him be an offensive dynamo. Because our offense is just as terrible, if not worse than our defense (I know a lot of people still think the defense is biggest issue, but that's actually not true anymore since the departure of Datsyuk and the decline of Zetterberg and Kronwall; we have one of the worst offense in the league. And for all the names we've drafted we have actually have zero results to show for it. 

I also disagree about his playmaking and scoring in the cycle. He gets breakaways, but he has shown great hockey IQ with those things. But he isn't consistent about it. And consistency comes with experience. He's had about 2 seasons in the NHL and this past season was the first time he actually got legitimate minutes. Which also goes to my other point, his minutes are just fine for his experience. The AA situation isn't as bad as it's being made out to be. Not everyone is a Dylan Larkin and breaks out their 1st year. 

Also going to restate the fact that the AA vs. Nyquist debate actually favors AA. Nyquist is 29 and no longer has an upside (he's not getting any better) and AA can only get better at this point in his career. They both had similar results end of the season in terms of production but with Nyquist having the superior elite playmaker and the teams best goal scorer on his line. 

Edited July 18, 2018 by kickazz

[toby91_ca 620]

11 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

If he decides to commit to D in the offensive/neutral/defensive zone, then great, we have the Darren Helm we always wanted. A speedy 3rd line center/winger who can shut down opponents and make you pay for over-committing in the O-zone via the breakaway. I'd be thrilled with that, but obviously I'd like him to do better than Helm+

 

I think a 3rd liner is far below what most Wings fans have hoped for him though.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

I just hoping for a future top 6 of:

Mantha - Larkin - Zadina

AA - Rasmussen - Berggren

If we had that within 3 years, that would be a great top 6 IMO. For the bottom 6, counting Veleno and other kids (Smith and Pope or Svech to round out the 3rd line,) all you'd have left for vets are 1 more year of Nielsen and two more years of Abby. Although there is potential they do re-sign Helm and Glenny after their contracts are up too.

Edited July 18, 2018 by LeftWinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

10 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

No righties.  Gotta trade to get some RH wingers.

Only thing I agree with you on...

[kipwinger 8,521]

7 hours ago, toby91_ca said:

I think a 3rd liner is far below what most Wings fans have hoped for him though.

Depends.  Michael Grabber is a third liner who's s***ty defensively but gives you 20-30 goals a year for like  3-4 million per year. Almost all of which come off the breakaway or by blowing the zone.  If AA only ever turned out to be that he'd be worth his current contract and all future contracts in the same ballparkk and every Wings fan should be thrilled by the prospect. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

No righties.  Gotta trade to get some RH wingers.

I feel like this is a big, juicy, squirming nightcrawler.

 

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Only thing I agree with you on...

It's like he's in ur head. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

13 hours ago, kickazz said:

Those are the key words here. "What we always wanted". At this point, I'd rather him be an offensive dynamo. Because our offense is just as terrible, if not worse than our defense (I know a lot of people still think the defense is biggest issue, but that's actually not true anymore since the departure of Datsyuk and the decline of Zetterberg and Kronwall; we have one of the worst offense in the league. And for all the names we've drafted we have actually have zero results to show for it. 

I also disagree about his playmaking and scoring in the cycle. He gets breakaways, but he has shown great hockey IQ with those things. But he isn't consistent about it. And consistency comes with experience. He's had about 2 seasons in the NHL and this past season was the first time he actually got legitimate minutes. Which also goes to my other point, his minutes are just fine for his experience. The AA situation isn't as bad as it's being made out to be. Not everyone is a Dylan Larkin and breaks out their 1st year. 

Also going to restate the fact that the AA vs. Nyquist debate actually favors AA. Nyquist is 29 and no longer has an upside (he's not getting any better) and AA can only get better at this point in his career. They both had similar results end of the season in terms of production but with Nyquist having the superior elite playmaker and the teams best goal scorer on his line. 

"What we always wanted" is not an accurate quote. My quote was "the Darren Helm we always wanted". I meant that as a side comment to disparage Darren Helm and nothing more.

I wholly disagree about our defense and forward group. The forward group has Larkin, Mantha, AA, and Bertuzzi, 4 young bright spots, 2 of which will probably be core players on this coming seasons roster. The defense has no one even close to this at this point in time.

AA had 17 assists last year and a large amount of his goals came on the breakaway. If you think his playmaking and scoring in the cycle is where it needs to be, then we can agree to disagree.

Again, I think AA v. Nyquist is a real s***ty comparison not worth exploring.

12 hours ago, toby91_ca said:

I think a 3rd liner is far below what most Wings fans have hoped for him though.

At this point in time that's where he's slotted. He's gotta take the next step up. I'm optimistic about him, I think he can.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

On 7/7/2018 at 2:35 PM, LeftWinger said:

I know who Z is, and I know you're referring to Zadina as well, but you list Z, ZZ and Z2. Who is Who?

AA i s better than a deserves to be in top 6 over Nyquist. 

Nyquist-Nielsen-Vanek is a great line in the 3rd slot.

No. This is where the whole AA vs. Nyquist thing started.

I disagreed and said I would prefer Nyquist in the top 6 over AA for reasons that I stated.

No Nyquist and AA are not similar players when it comes to direct comparisons, but there are different reasons why one could argue that one belongs in the top 6 over the other...which is one way of comparing them.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

7 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

No. This is where the whole AA vs. Nyquist thing started.

I disagreed and said I would prefer Nyquist in the top 6 over AA for reasons that I stated.

No Nyquist and AA are not similar players when it comes to direct comparisons, but there are different reasons why one could argue that one belongs in the top 6 over the other...which is one way of comparing them.

IDK why this comparison keeps getting made. Goose and AA are not similar at all IMO.

Mantha is probably the best comparison. Two young goal scorers with tremendous talent,both of whom have been flanked by compete/effort issues resulting in a perceived one-dimensional game.

I think Mantha is rounding out his game already. His work in front of the net this past season was much better than the season prior. To me, it looks like he's taken to heart some lessons and is trying to expand his game.

I want the same for AA now. Take that speed, take that stick work, and build it into something the Red Wings can use on every shift. This will be a crucial season for him.

 

[LeftWinger 4,951]

He'll get there. Remember when they all said Datsyuk was not a playoff performer? AA's game will round out.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

44 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

He'll get there. Remember when they all said Datsyuk was not a playoff performer? AA's game will round out.

Like I said, I'm optimistic as well, but my worry is Mrazek syndrome... That he's going to dig his heels in and double-down on being the flashy one-dimensional player he currently is.

If he doesn't bring it this season, you can expect me to start s***ting all over him.

 

[kickazz 5,459]

30 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Like I said, I'm optimistic as well, but my worry is Mrazek syndrome... That he's going to dig his heels in and double-down on being the flashy one-dimensional player he currently is.

If he doesn't bring it this season, you can expect me to start s***ting all over him.

 

You already did start s***ting on him. You’re just taking a softer tone now because I shat on people who were already s***ting on him prematurely. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

32 minutes ago, kickazz said:

You already did start s***ting on him. You’re just taking a softer tone now because I shat on people who were already s***ting on him prematurely. 

When I said he's lazy and he sucks lol?

I think you missed the boat on the joke...

I see AA is going to be your Brendan Smith. Should be fun lol.

Edited July 20, 2018 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[kickazz 5,459]

5 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

When I said he's lazy and he sucks lol?

I think you missed the boat on the joke...

Someone pulled the Franzen trigger on you and you went off on AA. Saying that he’ll never be even at Franzen’s 2010 level.

Before that Neo responded to Buppy’s question about why everyone is turning on AA already, to which Neo accused AA of unwilling to be coached as if he has the ins and outs of AA’s life.

I have seen absolutely zero evidence that AA is unwilling to be coached or learn. With Mrazek there were reports that came out directly about some of the issues he was having with the team and he admitted them in interviews as well. With AA there are zero, zero quotes from him or coaches that he is unwilling to be coached or has issues with the team.

 

Edited July 20, 2018 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Just now, kickazz said:

Someone pulled the Franzen trigger on you and you went off on AA.

Before that Neo responded to Buppy’s question about why everyone is turning on AA already and accused AA of unwilling to be coaches as if he has the ins and outs of AA’s life.

Because AA is currently a dumpster fire on skates. Sure he has some limited potential, but he wouldn't even get us much in a trade at this point in time.

[kickazz 5,459]

Just now, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Because AA is currently a dumpster fire on skates. Sure he has some limited potential, but he wouldn't even get us much in a trade at this point in time.

And there goes the soft tone, back to premature s*** talking. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, kickazz said:

And there goes the soft tone, back to premature s*** talking. 

You didn't like my realistic optimist tone, and I'm just trying to make you happy

I can talk s*** about AA for days if need be. He's not that good. Plain and simple.

[kickazz 5,459]

10 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You didn't like my realistic optimist tone, and I'm just trying to make you happy

I can talk s*** about AA for days if need be. He's not that good. Plain and simple.

If you’re reality is backed without evidence and stats then by all means. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, kickazz said:

If you’re reality is backed without evidence and stats then by all means. 

33 pts. 16 goals. Not very good. Plain and simple.

[Dabura 12,207]

19 minutes ago, kickazz said:

If you’re reality is backed without evidence and stats then by all means. 

*your