Yzerman vs Fedorov. Which one was better?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

25 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

would you have switched to the Sens?

 

3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Yes, I most definitely would have.

 

I kid

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Doesn't this statement kind of contradict everything else you just said?... 

 

 

Yzerman was the better all around player, and brought it every shift, every game. Fedorov was the more flashy player, and when he was on, he was one of the best the game's ever seen. If I could have one player in their prime right now, it would be Yzerman and it wouldn't be close. Yzerman doesn't leave a single box unchecked. 

Of course there's probably a bit of a bias from me. Yzerman was my idol as a kid and the reason I'm a Wings fan today. Even to this day, I get people ask me why I'm a Wings fan, and my answer is always the same. "I grew up a huge Yzerman fan". Which always helps them understand how a guy from Eastern Canada, where the population is about 98% Leafs and Habs fans, and 2% other, is a fan of an American based team. Most people always assume, especially when the Wings were the top team in the league every year, that that's the only reason I was a Wings fan, so I explain that I became a Wings fan around 1990, a few years before the Wings became that powerhouse team.

No. I think that Feds was often times the best player on the ice. He sometimes played like the opposition was a tier below him, so he didn't have to put forth as much effort. He played "down" to his competition. In other words, he didn't go all out every shift.

Stevie didn't play that way. He went all out every shift. He had the better career overall. I am not disputing that. But, I wouldn't put him in the conversation with the all time greats. Just a step below.

Feds had more natural skill IMO. If he had played like Yzerman every shift, not only do I think that he would have put up better numbers, but would have had the better career of the 2. And I do think that he would be among the all time greats as a result. Unfortunately for him, Feds didn't play the game that way, which is why Yzerman places higher on NHL's greatest players lists. And rightfully so.

BTW, I voted for Yzerman.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[kickazz 5,459]

20 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

No. I think that Feds was often times the best player on the ice. He sometimes played like the opposition was a tier below him, so he didn't have to put forth as much effort. He played "down" to his competition. In other words, he didn't go all out every shift.

Stevie didn't play that way. He went all out every shift. He had the better career overall. I am not disputing that. But, I wouldn't put him in the conversation with the all time greats. Just a step below.

Feds had more natural skill IMO. If he had played like Yzerman every shift, not only do I think that he would have put up better numbers, but would have had the better career of the 2. And I do think that he would be among the all time greats as a result. Unfortunately for him, Feds didn't play the game that way, which is why Yzerman places higher on NHL's greatest players lists. And rightfully so.

BTW, I voted for Yzerman.

The whole play style of "going all out every shift" isn't as easy as it sounds. Some players just have greater will power. The Yzermans, the Zetterbergs, Martin St Louis is another one that comes to mind. 

Lebron James

[Euro_Twins 4,476]

4 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Check out the playoff yrs

Seriously? You say he was more injured. I explain he played more games, also feds almost missed an entire season. And your retort is check out the playoff years? Which years? Show me some numbers, because I did check and your facts are not correct. 

[13dangledangle 965]

On ‎8‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 5:47 PM, krsmith17 said:

Yes, I most definitely would have. How different things would have turned out for those two organizations if that trade had gone down... I remember hearing the news when I was around 8 or 9 years old, and crying uncontrollably... and being so happy when I found out that it wasn't going to happen...

I was 13 and remember being pi**ed right off.  I hated Ottawa and I hated Yashin.  Yzerman became my favorite player when I was 9 years old when my dad took me to maple leaf gardens to see the leafs vs wings.  My eyes were glued to this dude making moves, moves I might add that  Ive only seen in my dreams, well up to this point anyway.  When the game was almost over my dad asked how I was liking the game, I said we need to stop by one of the stands on the way out and buy me an Yzerman jersey...Needless to say he was kinda pissed, it was almost blasphemy at that point for me less then an hour away from the leafs to route against them, but I did.  AND its been glorious

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

16 hours ago, 13dangledangle said:

I was 13 and remember being pi**ed right off.  I hated Ottawa and I hated Yashin.  Yzerman became my favorite player when I was 9 years old when my dad took me to maple leaf gardens to see the leafs vs wings.  My eyes were glued to this dude making moves, moves I might add that  Ive only seen in my dreams, well up to this point anyway.  When the game was almost over my dad asked how I was liking the game, I said we need to stop by one of the stands on the way out and buy me an Yzerman jersey...Needless to say he was kinda pissed, it was almost blasphemy at that point for me less then an hour away from the leafs to route against them, but I did.  AND its been glorious

You made the right choice. #RedArmy

[chaps80 1,591]

Yzerman was the more complete player, but Fedorov was more skilled. Either way, Yzerman is a hallowed figure in Detroit, and Fedorov tarnished his legacy. Like Dats.

[13dangledangle 965]

4 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Yzerman was the more complete player, but Fedorov was more skilled. Either way, Yzerman is a hallowed figure in Detroit, and Fedorov tarnished his legacy. Like Dats.

Didn't Fedorov act like a ***** for more money then left the wings for less money then he was asking?  Dats left to go back home to be with his daughter, I don't feel Dats tarnished his legacy anywhere close to Feds....I was already missing Stevie and Sergie, now Im missing Dats too

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

11 hours ago, 13dangledangle said:

Didn't Fedorov act like a ***** for more money then left the wings for less money then he was asking?  Dats left to go back home to be with his daughter, I don't feel Dats tarnished his legacy anywhere close to Feds....I was already missing Stevie and Sergie, now Im missing Dats too

To be fair to Sergei, he didn't abandon a contract mid-term. Datsyuk did. But yes, the motivations behind Datsyuk's decision were a little more endearing than Fedorov's.

[chaps80 1,591]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

To be fair to Sergei, he didn't abandon a contract mid-term. Datsyuk did. But yes, the motivations behind Datsyuk's decision were a little more endearing than Fedorov's.

Yeah, he'd already held out for money once, which made his jumping ship look a even worse. Dats only had one season left, he should have just finished it. I get wanting to be close to family, but he signed with a team hours away from them after returning to Russia. That didn't help his cause with the Detroit fanbase. Both situations sucked.

[kickazz 5,459]

Don Zetterberg will make sure his Russian BFF Datsyuk gets his # retired with legacy intact. 

40 and 13 next to each other on the rafters is only fitting. The two were probably the best dynamic duo in recent history. Not to mention their on ice chemistry was second to none. Maybe even almost as good as the Sedin twins.  

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by kickazz

[kipwinger 8,522]

I don't really see any argument for Fedorov.  He wasn't more skilled than Yzerman in any meaningful way, he scored less over the course of his career, and was less of a factor in all 3 Cup runs.  He was definitely more athletic though, I'll give him that.

[NerveDamage 4,176]

Yzerman had better flow

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

You have been visited by the rare party-Yzerman. This image only appears every 10,000 posts.

Like this post now, or be cursed with bad-parties for eternity.

[NerveDamage 4,176]

40 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You have been visited by the rare party-Yzerman. This image only appears every 10,000 posts.

Like this post now, or be cursed with bad-parties for eternity.

HYPEzerman!!!

[LeftWinger 4,958]

Every time I watch a video or interview with Yzerman, it makes me crazy thinking why he's not part of our organization. I just gave Holland hid props for the draft, but I really hope Yzerman comes home.

[toby91_ca 620]

On 8/14/2018 at 9:54 PM, Euro_Twins said:

Seriously? You say he was more injured. I explain he played more games, also feds almost missed an entire season. And your retort is check out the playoff years? Which years? Show me some numbers, because I did check and your facts are not correct. 

Probably referring to the playoff years during Fedorov's time with the Wings.  Fedorov : 162gp, 163pts.  Yzerman: 149gp, 135pts.

[kickazz 5,459]

Yzerman.

[Jersey Wing 1,521]

Who was better....at what? That's how I'd divvy this up. Who was better in which aspects of the game? I think we'll find Yzerman better in some and Fedorov better in some. Neither won a cup without the other. Maybe on the ice they'd come out even when everything is taken into consideration. Faceoffs, scoring, defensive play, both were asked to adapt their games mighitly and both succeeded, Fedorov has 2 Selkes and Stevie 1, Yzerman of course has a Conn Smythe on one leg. Fedorov won a Hart, Yzerman a gold medal. They were both magnificent. On the ice I'd call it a draw.

 

Then there's character. Leadership, not somehow getting away with dating a 16 year old tennis star (that always made me uncomfortable) and one didn't have a DUI (I was the victim of a drunk driver at 17) and one didn't bolt from the Red Wings releasing a statement in the middle of the night from Putinville Russia that said California's the place I oughta be...

 

Don't get me wrong, I want #91 in the rafters, let's get that done but if I pick one it's Stevie

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Fedorov Lost All His NHL Money Upon Leaving The NHL

[Seraph 240]

Depends if you mean the better player over the course of a career or the better player on one given night. We all know the answer if you put it like that.

[LeftWinger 4,958]

Fedorov left for a 5 year $40M contract.  Detroit's offer was 4 years $40M.  You say less money, but it's the same money, but less per year.  Fedorov wanted the 5 year deal that Detroit had on the table in December of that season, but Fedorov was switching agents and (if you believe the tabloids) was going through a divorce with Anna. He wanted to wait until all that was ironed out.  When he was ready Detroit dropped the offer to 4 years.  He wanted a couple of other things too....He wanted the extra year, but what he signed in Anaheim was 2 years guaranteed , with 3 years as an option to the player, Detroit would not do that.  Also he wanted the 2 years because the CBA was expiring the next off season and Detroit would not give him the 2 year guarantee.  Everyone always says, "he left for less money" "f*** him" "he turned down more here" etc.... fact is, he left for guarantee pay and another year on the contract.  It was never about the amount of money Detroit had offered.  If Detroit had  offered the 5 year $40m the second time along with the language he wanted in there, then he would've possibly retired a Red Wing. That is the fault of Ken Holland. Or is it?

Here is a small tidbit in to why he signed the offer sheet with Carolina. Apparently Larionov and Fetisov had said some things about him over the summer when he did not go with them to Russia with the Cup.  Fedorov maintains that he was not asked and did not want to go and leave Vladdy behind in the hospital.  So its possible he felt that he would not be welcome here anymore if those two rejected him on the team.  Could have something to do with how things were in Russia, if you weren't accepted by the leaders, you weren't accepted by the team, and Fedorov obviously still looked to those two as his leaders because of their legendary status with Red Army.  Here is a clip I found:

https://www.apnews.com/4f9a6b43336f6ab798ea848dddeff298

Quote

Fedorov had hinted he might not play for Detroit if the Red Wings decided to match. He reportedly is upset about comments made about him by Wings and fellow Russians Igor Larionov and Vyacheslav Fetisov made over the summer.

 

Larionov and Fetisov said in August that they were disappointed that Fedorov had rejected their invitation to accompany them when they brought the Stanley Cup back to Russia. Fedorov has said he was not invited and that he did not want to go because of defenseman Vladimir Konstantinov, who was still hospitalized with injuries sustained in a limousine accident six days after the Wings won the Stanley Cup.

Just like today, we don't always see what goes on behind the curtain.  Maybe these comments played a role in him leaving in 2003 as well?

[Jersey Wing 1,521]

You can make so many cases so many ways with stats. We all saw Fedorov's raw talent on display and Yzerman's skill and resolve. I'll settle it in my mind this way. You want your top starman to score your biggest most important goals and near as I remember Yzerman had one in the deepest darkest hours of Game 7 vs St. Louis, while Sergei had a lot of great goals and important ones, he never ever had THAT goal in a game 7 or a giant OT goal like Yzerman. It's a little thing but how I decide.

[F.Michael 4,590]

On 8/9/2018 at 11:57 AM, Learn2LuvIt said:

"Better" would need to be defined further.

Feds - More talented

Stevie - Better overall impact on his team

 

Regardless of stats - I'll just go with the old 'eyeball' test...Slight edge to Fedorov.

I've always felt Sergei had more raw talent than Grand Master Y, but the latter played to his ability, and led by example whereas the former was known to float from time to time.

Still - wonder where Sergei would've ended up in Norris Trophy votes had he played a few full seasons on D?

Edited August 21, 2019 by F.Michael

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Fedorov left for a 5 year $40M contract.  Detroit's offer was 4 years $40M.  You say less money, but it's the same money, but less per year.  Fedorov wanted the 5 year deal that Detroit had on the table in December of that season, but Fedorov was switching agents and (if you believe the tabloids) was going through a divorce with Anna. He wanted to wait until all that was ironed out.  When he was ready Detroit dropped the offer to 4 years.  He wanted a couple of other things too....He wanted the extra year, but what he signed in Anaheim was 2 years guaranteed , with 3 years as an option to the player, Detroit would not do that.  Also he wanted the 2 years because the CBA was expiring the next off season and Detroit would not give him the 2 year guarantee.  Everyone always says, "he left for less money" "f*** him" "he turned down more here" etc.... fact is, he left for guarantee pay and another year on the contract.  It was never about the amount of money Detroit had offered.  If Detroit had  offered the 5 year $40m the second time along with the language he wanted in there, then he would've possibly retired a Red Wing. That is the fault of Ken Holland. Or is it?

Here is a small tidbit in to why he signed the offer sheet with Carolina. Apparently Larionov and Fetisov had said some things about him over the summer when he did not go with them to Russia with the Cup.  Fedorov maintains that he was not asked and did not want to go and leave Vladdy behind in the hospital.  So its possible he felt that he would not be welcome here anymore if those two rejected him on the team.  Could have something to do with how things were in Russia, if you weren't accepted by the leaders, you weren't accepted by the team, and Fedorov obviously still looked to those two as his leaders because of their legendary status with Red Army.  Here is a clip I found:

https://www.apnews.com/4f9a6b43336f6ab798ea848dddeff298

Just like today, we don't always see what goes on behind the curtain.  Maybe these comments played a role in him leaving in 2003 as well?

My impression was Holland was getting fed up with Feds...The Carolina offer sheet, Feds moodiness that probably filtered into the locker room, the Anna divorce, and with Holland going from 5 down to 4 years seemed a bit childish, but I could understand the frustration Holland must've felt.

Wonder what Grand Master Y feels about this all - looking back?