2018 Prospects Watch

[marcaractac 3,875]

21 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

What am I right about again?  And who else was I talking to?  I've been battling it out with KRSmith for sure, but he's the only one.  And so far he's been man enough to take it as well as he dishes it...which is why he's fun to talk to. 

Didn't realize you were so delicate.  My bad.  Feel free to ignore me though if my posts give you the vapors.

Ahh yes, the snowflake routine. How original. If anybody needs me I'll be in my safe space. 

[kipwinger 7,649]

3 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

Ahh yes, the snowflake routine. How original. If anybody needs me I'll be in my safe space. 

I'm just wondering why you decided to put your cape on and fly to KRSmith's defense?  Didn't think he could handle himself or what?  He's done a pretty good job of dealing with me, but apparently my "drama" was just too much for you to handle eh?  I'd think there are probably bigger worries in life.  Again, feel free to ignore me.  When I want your attention I'll jingle my zipper. 

 

[kipwinger 7,649]

Two goals tonight for Veleno.

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Not bad for a guy you said won't be more than a 3rd pairing guy just a few days ago. 

I said "probably" won't, and I stand by that. I hope he becomes a 2nd pair defenseman, but at this point, I think 3rd pair is more likely.

[kipwinger 7,649]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I said "probably" won't, and I stand by that. I hope he becomes a 2nd pair defenseman, but at this point, I think 3rd pair is more likely.

Just out of curiosity what do you project your boy Bode Wilde being? Because you seem really high on him, even said you would have preferred we took him over McIsaac and all.  But McIsaac has the same ppg as Wilde this year.  And a better ppg then Wilde did last year.  Plus most scouting reports say McIsaac's defense is better.  And he made Canada's WJC team in his draft plus one year, something Wilde didn't.  So if Jared is only going to be a 3rd pair guy, Wilde is going to be...a 3rd pair guy?  And if that's the case, then why do you like him so much?

Edited February 2, 2019 by kipwinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

11 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Just out of curiosity what do you project your boy Bode Wilde being? 

Top 4.

[kipwinger 7,649]

57 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Top 4.

Check my edits to the post above.

See, I was like you; prior to the draft I though Wilde was probably the better option.  But it turns out I was very wrong.  McIsaac seems to be as good or better offensively AND better defensely.  FWIW, The Hockey Writers magazine says they both have top pair upside.  So that's something. 

Edited February 2, 2019 by kipwinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

22 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Just out of curiosity what do you project your boy Bode Wilde being? Because you seem really high on him, even said you would have preferred we took him over McIsaac and all.  But McIsaac has a better ppg than Wilde this year.  Better ppg then Wilde last year too.  Plus most scouting reports say McIsaac's defense is better.  And he made Canada's WJC team in his draft plus one year, something Wilde didn't.  So if Jared is only going to be a 3rd pair guy, Wilde is going to be...a 3rd pair guy?  And if that's the case, then why do you like him so much?

I said I would have taken Wilde over Berggren, not McIsaac. I was very happy with the McIsaac pick.

You say that you're more interested in how good a player is going to become, not how good they currently are, and then you rattle off some stats (that are incorrect by the way) about which player is better currently.

McIsaac has a 1.12 PPG and Wilde has a 1.19 PPG. Last I checked, 1.19 is higher than 1.12. The OHL is also known to be a tougher league than the QMJHL. And the USDP, where Wilde played last season, definitely is. You're comparing apples to oranges.

I'm not sure why Wilde didn't play in the World Juniors. I'm not even sure if he would have played for team Canada. He was born in Quebec, but grew up in Michigan, so maybe he would have played for the US team if he had played in the tournament. Regardless, there are a ton of players cut from these teams that go on to have great careers and players that make their team, and never make the NHL.

In my opinion, McIsaac has the higher floor, but Wilde has the higher ceiling. I'd prefer the defenseman with the higher ceiling. Especially in the current state the Red Wings are in now. Loaded with depth, but lack high end talent. I'd like to see some more homerun swings, rather than the safe picks, but that's just me.

[kipwinger 7,649]

18 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I said I would have taken Wilde over Berggren, not McIsaac. I was very happy with the McIsaac pick.

You say that you're more interested in how good a player is going to become, not how good they currently are, and then you rattle off some stats (that are incorrect by the way) about which player is better currently.

McIsaac has a 1.12 PPG and Wilde has a 1.19 PPG. Last I checked, 1.19 is higher than 1.12. The OHL is also known to be a tougher league than the QMJHL. And the USDP, where Wilde played last season, definitely is. You're comparing apples to oranges.

I'm not sure why Wilde didn't play in the World Juniors. I'm not even sure if he would have played for team Canada. He was born in Quebec, but grew up in Michigan, so maybe he would have played for the US team if he had played in the tournament. Regardless, there are a ton of players cut from these teams that go on to have great careers and players that make their team, and never make the NHL.

In my opinion, McIsaac has the higher floor, but Wilde has the higher ceiling. I'd prefer the defenseman with the higher ceiling. Especially in the current state the Red Wings are in now. Loaded with depth, but lack high end talent. I'd like to see some more homerun swings, rather than the safe picks, but that's just me.

I corrected the stats above because I caught my mistake on the ppg thing.  This year they're both at 1.1 ppg (1.12 for McIsaac, 1.19 for Wilde). The difference between the two, .06 equates to 3 points over a 60 game season (which is what most junior players play). Last year McIsaac had a higher ppg by a more considerable margin.

Not sure why you think the USNDP is a "tougher" league than the Q?  They're both extrememly offensive leagues.  Crosby scored 130 points as a 16 year old in the Q.  Matthews scored 117 points as a 16 yo in the USNDP.  Clayton Keller scored 107 points in the USNDP.  All in about 60 games.  You're talking two of the highest scoring leagues in the junior hockey. 

Also, this year the top scorers in the OHL are actually scoring MORE than their QMJHL counterparts. So even if the OHL has traditionally been the lower scoring league, it's not true this year and this is the year we're comparing McIsaac and Wilde.  And they both have 1.1 ppg. 

And I notice you didn't even address the fact that the consensus is that McIsaac is better defensively that Wilde according to most sources.  So even if their offense is a wash, which statistically it isn't, McIsaac should probably still get the bump given that he's the better defender.

Edited February 2, 2019 by kipwinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I corrected the stats above because I caught my mistake on the ppg thing.  This year they're both at 1.1 ppg (1.12 for McIsaac, 1.19 for Wilde). The difference between the two, .06 equates to 3 points over a 60 game season (which is what most junior players play). Last year McIsaac had a higher ppg by a more considerable margin.

Not sure why you think the USNDP is a "tougher" league than the Q?  They're both extrememly offensive leagues.  Crosby scored 130 points as a 16 year old in the Q.  Matthews scored 117 points as a 16 yo in the USNDP.  Clayton Keller scored 107 points in the USNDP.  All in about 60 games.  You're talking two of the highest scoring leagues in the junior hockey. 

Also, this year the top scorers in the OHL are actually scoring MORE than their QMJHL counterparts. So even if the OHL has traditionally been the lower scoring league, it's not true this year and this is the year we're comparing McIsaac and Wilde.  And they both have 1.1 ppg. 

And I notice you didn't even address the fact that the consensus is that McIsaac is better defensively that Wilde according to most sources.  So even if their offense is a wash, which statistically it isn't, McIsaac should probably still get the bump given that he's the better defender.

I agree that the difference between their PPG is insignificant, I was just pointing out that you were (originally) wrong in stating that McIsaac's PPG was higher. I do find it funny though that you say they're both at 1.1, when Wilde is at 1.19... but whatever.

For me, the raw skills (skating, passing, shooting) are more important than the fundamentals (positioning, defensive awareness), especially in the lower leagues, where it's a lot less structured, run-and-gun hockey.

Defense can be taught, and I don't think a 6'4", 200lbs. smooth skating defenseman will have much of an issue figuring it out. Besides, I'm not even so sure his defensive game is that much of an issue...

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/283932/bode-wilde

"Bode Wilde is a talented and competitive defender that plays a tenacious 200-foot game. His balance and acceleration in-stride is noteworthy and he is never caught in no-man's land, or doing nothing. He is proactive and hard-nosed in pursuit if puck control, and he reads queues in all three zones naturally and quickly. Defensively, he is a beast and always looks to take time and space away from the opposition. He erases the open lane, keeps opponents to the outside, and is physical along the wall. In-transition, he is able to make that outlet pass or, more than likely, take it up himself to set up the trap. Offensively, he showcases a very hard, accurate shot that leaps off his stick. He can also open up space by way of his skating ability, size, and handling of the puck. Thanks to his quick thinking in making the high-percentage decision, he can be very difficult to read and play against. All-in-all, Wilde is a smart, competitive, and sizey two-way D-man that can provide a team with numbers on the board and stability on the ice."

A lot of what I've seen and read regarding Wilde's weaknesses is more so him taking risks offensively and getting caught defensively, rather than his actual ability to defend. But again, I would attribute that more to the league he's playing than the player he is, or more importantly, the player he will become.

Wilde was projected to go higher than McIsaac on just about every pre-draft board I've seen (significantly higher on some). Cory Pronman recently did a post-draft prospect ranking (top 57 players) and Wilde came in at 21, while McIsaac didn't make the cut.

I get it. You really like McIsaac. I do too, but maybe not quite as much as you. Where do you project McIsaac? What about Wilde?

[kipwinger 7,649]

I don't "like" McIsaac.  I don't know him. The whole point I was making is that "liking" players is dumb. Trying your best to analyze them against criteria is better, but that means that sometimes you'll find out the players you "like" aren't very good, or players you don't "like" are.  I'd argue that "liking" players is what gets you, KRSmith, into trouble because then you tie yourself in knots trying to explain away their failures.

I probably wouldn't project either guy at this point.  Why? Because they're still in junior hockey. They have no real track record and they're playing against kids. Same with Veleno.  I like their skill sets, but unlike you I don't care as much about skill sets.  There are plenty of 6'4, 200 lb, hockey players who are total puds.  Only in REALLY rare circumstances can you accurately project how good a 2nd round pick is going to be this early in his career. 

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

13 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I don't "like" McIsaac.  I don't know him. The whole point I was making is that "liking" players is dumb. Trying your best to analyze them against criteria is better, but that means that sometimes you'll find out the players you "like" aren't very good, or players you don't "like" are.  I'd argue that "liking" players is what gets you, KRSmith, into trouble because then you tie yourself in knots trying to explain away their failures.

I probably wouldn't project either guy at this point.  Why? Because they're still in junior hockey. They have no real track record and they're playing against kids. Same with Veleno.  I like their skill sets, but unlike you I don't care as much about skill sets.  There are plenty of 6'4, 200 lb, hockey players who are total puds.  Only in REALLY rare circumstances can you accurately project how good a 2nd round pick is going to be this early in his career. 

"Like" in the sense that I "like the way he plays the game", not him as a person... But I'm sure you knew what I meant... I like Wilde's physical attributes and his overall skill set. But you don't care as much about skill sets... 

I think Bode Wilde could be one of the steals of the draft. You disagree, and that's fine.

No one is expecting you to "accurately" project how good either of these players are going to be, but you obviously have an opinion, or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

I like the guy whos with the Wings more than the guy who isn't.

[The 91 of Ryans 2,561]

5 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I like the guy whos with the Wings more than the guy who isn't.

4 paragraph minimum plz. K thx! 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,619]

5 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

4 paragraph minimum plz. K thx! 

Seriously.  Jeez

[krsmith17 7,191]

McIsaac with another goal and 3 assists in a 4-2 win tonight. Guy has been absolutely on fire since the WJC.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

1 goal and an assist for chase Pearson , 14 goals matches career best in 10 fewer games with 10 assists , 24 pts in 26 games thus far 

[TLGTrico 500]

It took me starting a franchise mode in NHL 19 and realizing that he was missing to find out that Lane Zablocki is in the BCHL now.  I had my doubts about him as soon as I read his scouting report.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

8 hours ago, TLGTrico said:

It took me starting a franchise mode in NHL 19 and realizing that he was missing to find out that Lane Zablocki is in the BCHL now.  I had my doubts about him as soon as I read his scouting report.

Pretty much anyone from that draft is a bust 

[krsmith17 7,191]

Holland interview with NHL.com

https://www.nhl.com/news/detroit-red-wings-will-entertain-trade-offers/c-304544204

"We're going to give Zadina a little bit of an opportunity in March. I want him or the young players to see what the NHL is all about, so as they head into the offseason [they know what they need to work on]. I think a young player can really improve in the gym between June and August."

I hope Zadina is up for a stint right after the deadline. I'll be at a couple games in early March, and it would be awesome to see him live.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,619]

7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Holland interview with NHL.com

https://www.nhl.com/news/detroit-red-wings-will-entertain-trade-offers/c-304544204

"We're going to give Zadina a little bit of an opportunity in March. I want him or the young players to see what the NHL is all about, so as they head into the offseason [they know what they need to work on]. I think a young player can really improve in the gym between June and August."

I hope Zadina is up for a stint right after the deadline. I'll be at a couple games in early March, and it would be awesome to see him live.

Cool.  Excited to see him.

[YouFoo 41]

17 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Holland interview with NHL.com

https://www.nhl.com/news/detroit-red-wings-will-entertain-trade-offers/c-304544204

"We're going to give Zadina a little bit of an opportunity in March. I want him or the young players to see what the NHL is all about, so as they head into the offseason [they know what they need to work on]. I think a young player can really improve in the gym between June and August."

I hope Zadina is up for a stint right after the deadline. I'll be at a couple games in early March, and it would be awesome to see him live.

Gonna be at the Wings game in Vegas Mar 23, hope he's playing then

[kipwinger 7,649]

Filip Hronek with two goals tonight for the Griffs.  Does he even still count as a prospect at this point?

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Filip Hronek with two goals tonight for the Griffs.  Does he even still count as a prospect at this point?

Until he's full time, yes.

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Filip Hronek with two goals tonight for the Griffs.  Does he even still count as a prospect at this point?

The Griffins were down 1-0 with less than two minutes remaining, and The Moose took two consecutive penalties. We pulled Sateri to make it a 6 on 3, and Hronek scored a one-timer off a pass from Zadina. They put Sateri back in, and immediately gained control, set up for the 5 on 4 and scored less than a minute later with 25 seconds remaining. Big win, and big night for Hronek. Zadina played an okay game. Had a really good chance early in the game, but was robbed. Lashoff also scored what would have been the tying goal earlier in the 3rd, but it was negated due to goaltender interference by Rasmussen. 

As nice as it is to see Hronek dominating down in the AHL, he really should be in the NHL.