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Jonas Mahonas

Hughes vs. Cozens

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I'm starting to get the feeling this team might be better off trading down to #2 if we get the #1 in the lottery.

 

Jack Hughers strikes me as Johnny Gaudreau part 2 and not Patrick Kane part 2.  While Gaudreau is a great player, he is not what we need.

 

Dylan Cozens strikes me as Jason Spezza part 2 with potential for Ryan Getzlaf part 2. 

 

I think we are in need more of a RIGHT HANDED forward that can maintain offensive zone pressure than we are of a coast to coast puck carrier that can back off the D on initial zone entry.

 

If we got Buffalo's first and 2nd 1st round picks for the number 1 overall pick, would you pull the trigger?

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I've actually been thinking along these lines lately.

I've kind of settled on "Gaudreau 2" as a projection for Hughes, at least for the time being. With that (admittedly underinformed and therefore pretty meaningless) projection in mind, I've been wondering if maybe it wouldn't make more sense to trade down or trade for a multi-piece package.

I'm liking Larkin as a 1C tho. Not sure he'll ever be a *Great* player, but he could be good enough, depending on the talent around him. And if Veleno is a solid 2C? Well, then I'm not sure we need a high-end centerman more than we need a high-end winger.

And, of course, all of this is assuming Hughes becomes a full-time winger, which isn't a given. (It's also assuming we get the #1 pick in the first place.)

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I'd be thrilled with either Dylan Cozens or Kirby Dach at number 2, if that's where we end up. But no way should we pass up an opportunity to draft Jack Hughes at number one, unless it's for a package we just can't refuse.

If we win the lottery and Colorado (from Ottawa) gets the number 2 slot, and they offer us number 2 and Cale Makar (not going to happen), then yes, you probably have to consider it. Anything short of a package like that though, no.

I also think you're selling Hughes a little short. From everything I've seen and read, he's going to be a dominant player in the NHL. He's put up similar numbers to Matthews and better numbers than Kane at the same age. So far, I think he's the only player in this draft with elite potential. We need elite players, not more very good players...

#loseforhughes

Not so we can just turn around and trade him...

Hughes - Larkin - Mantha

Rasmussen - Veleno - Zadina

could be a very good top 6 in a couple years...

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24 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

But no way should we pass up an opportunity to draft Jack Hughes at number one, unless it's for a package we just can't refuse.

I agree that Hughes looks like the runaway favorite and we'd probably be stupid af to pass on him, but we as obsessive fans live for that "unless" stuff. :crazy:

That being said...

  • What does that offer look like? Is there anything slightly more realistic than 2nd overall + [Makar-caliber prospect] that gets you to bite?
  • To kind of run with Jimmy D's "We might go outside the box" tease: What if there's a pie-in-the-sky return that you feel is worth going HAM after? So, like, What if you add Mantha/Athanasiou (+ pick/prospect) on top of that 1st overall pick? Does that change the conversation?

You don't have to answer all or any of those questions, I'm just trying to find a way to push the Hughes conversation past "Don't overthink this. Draft Hughes" (which I agree with, at least in principle) into the realm of mental masturbation and spreadsheets.

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1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I'd be thrilled with either Dylan Cozens or Kirby Dach at number 2, if that's where we end up. But no way should we pass up an opportunity to draft Jack Hughes at number one, unless it's for a package we just can't refuse.

If we win the lottery and Colorado (from Ottawa) gets the number 2 slot, and they offer us number 2 and Cale Makar (not going to happen), then yes, you probably have to consider it. Anything short of a package like that though, no.

I also think you're selling Hughes a little short. From everything I've seen and read, he's going to be a dominant player in the NHL. He's put up similar numbers to Matthews and better numbers than Kane at the same age. So far, I think he's the only player in this draft with elite potential. We need elite players, not more very good players...

#loseforhughes

Not so we can just turn around and trade him...

Hughes - Larkin - Mantha

Rasmussen - Veleno - Zadina

could be a very good top 6 in a couple years...

Your points are well take.  Understand that my Gaudreau comparison is based on 15 minutes of highlight film that Ove watched on YouTube of Hughes.  So by no means do I have a great comprehensive analysis of what he projects to be.  

 

My main point is that I think there is a very real possibility we go 1 and Buffalo goes 2 or 3.  And Buffalo needs Jack Hughes to play alongside Eichel BADLY.  We need a right handed center man to play alongside Mantha and Athanasiou.  And one that specializes in digging pucks off the boards and getting them to wingers in the slot.  From what I've watched of Cozens, he excels in that area.

 

Buffalo has another potentially high first round pick from St Louis.  If we can get the #2 Pick AND any pick in the top 15, I think we have to do it.

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11 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

How do you guys know so much about these players?  Do you watch the Canadian junior leagues or NCAA?  I wouldn't know these kids if they walked into the room I'm in now.

Last season I spent some time in Canada and Sweden and got to see a lot of the top talent in person. That + deep-diving on the interwebs for info = I kinda sorta maybe had a very superficial handle on ~28 of the kids in the draft.

I'm pretty much clueless about the 2019 class. Seen Hughes in person a couple times, but that's about it. I'm starting to learn about the other top names, but I don't plan on seeing any of them in person.

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I am definitely a Hughes fan, but I have said on more than one occasion, what kind of package could we score if we thought about trading the #1 (if we got it.)

You know Vancouver would LOVE to untie the brothers, but I am sure there will be 30 teams with some amazing offers for that pick. We'd for sure get another 2019 1st, we could probably get a 2020 1st as well. We'd also more than likely get our #1/#2 D-man. Maybe his home state teams (Florida, Tampa) would have a couple of great offers to consider. (No I am not talking about Tippett, so please don't go there.)

Of course we'd love to have Hughes, but we'd at least have to have some serious conversations with teams about a deal.

Meanwhile, we should add anther player to the question, Kirby Dach.  He has 27 pts (10 goals) in 16 games, also shoots right. If we happen to make a deal with another top 5-10 team, we are still getting a great (projected) player. My choice would to try and deal the #1 to a team that has TWO top 15 (or higher) picks. Buffalo has two 1st this season. So far.

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14 hours ago, Dabura said:

I agree that Hughes looks like the runaway favorite and we'd probably be stupid af to pass on him, but we as obsessive fans live for that "unless" stuff. :crazy:

That being said...

  • What does that offer look like? Is there anything slightly more realistic than 2nd overall + [Makar-caliber prospect] that gets you to bite?

Probably not. If I'm thinking about trading an elite C/W like Hughes, the only way I consider it, is if I'm getting the next best player in the draft, and a potential top pair defenseman in return.

14 hours ago, Dabura said:
  • To kind of run with Jimmy D's "We might go outside the box" tease: What if there's a pie-in-the-sky return that you feel is worth going HAM after? So, like, What if you add Mantha/Athanasiou (+ pick/prospect) on top of that 1st overall pick? Does that change the conversation?

Are you asking if I'd trade Jack Hughes plus Mantha / Athanasiou plus another pick / prospect for Dylan Cozens / Kirby Dach plus Cale Makar? Or are you talking about a completely different trade package? If it's the former, Hell No! The latter, maybe, but it would have to be one hell of a package coming back.

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54 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Are you asking if I'd trade Jack Hughes plus Mantha / Athanasiou plus another pick / prospect for Dylan Cozens / Kirby Dach plus Cale Makar? Or are you talking about a completely different trade package? If it's the former, Hell No! The latter, maybe, but it would have to be one hell of a package coming back.

Completely different package. The idea being that this would be our chance to go crazy and pursue dragons and unicorns and other mythical trade targets.

Is that opportunity sexier than the opportunity to draft a much-needed star? Probably not. But all it takes is one GM who's willing to give us something that's too good to pass up.

Edited by Dabura

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