Helm and Rasmussen

[Buppy 1,720]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I'm kinda with you to be perfectly honest. Kid rode a hot streak into the draft. His peers in the top 5 of his draft class are massively outperforming him besides Barret Hayton (lmao)

Zadina's foot speed is not great. His decision making in the cycle is questionable. And his defense is nothing to be admired. However his ability to beat defenders with his stick skills and beat goalies with his shot are very good. He needs to adapt and learn to do those things at a new speed. The pro speed. Improving his foot work and adding weight would be huge for him. And he's only 18 or whatever so he should be able to accomplish this.

My primary concern is the decision making. His ability/instincts to beat you one on one are superb, but his ability to see the ice and anticipate creative plays leaves me wanting. And this is a team sport. He needs to improve that, which i think is harder to improve than the aforementioned skills. Maybe when he learns our systems better this will improve (I hope).

My biggest fear is that he is a trigger-man only (one-dimensional) and will not be able to drive play on his own.

Right now, for me, he his Hudler+

If he can be a bigger stronger Hudler who does not fear the dirty areas or have off ice issues, we got a good player on our hands. I think he maxes out at Hossa and bottoms out at Hudler during his Detroit tenure. Obviously Hudler during Detroit tenure would be a slight disappointment based on his draft position, but still a valuable player.

18 is young, lets see how he goes. Cholowski also struggled after being drafted.

Your narrative is somewhat skewed. 

For one, let's stop acting like Zadina was a first overall pick. Despite the perfectly justified excitement, he wasn't expected to be a star from day 1. Pretty much all the scouting reports had him borderline NHL-ready at best, as is the case with almost every top player. He got some notice from world juniors, but by the draft he and Tkachuk were considered similar, a tier below Dahlin and Svechnikov. Kotkaniemi was a late riser, under the radar most of the season before getting a ton of hype close to the draft. Usually a guy like that most years. Kind of a stretch to say Zadina really "fell" in the draft. Two of the five taken ahead of him were always expected to be, a 3rd could have gone either way, and a 4th was a late-riser who was also selected largely because of position. The only guy that was a true reach was Hayton, who was also position based and taken ahead of several other players ranked ahead of him besides Zadina. There were also those defensemen who could have easily gone top-5 if a team had been more in need.

To say anyone is "massively" anything after 10-20 games is ridiculous. Tkachuk has had a few good games. Kotka has been alright, but hardly a game-breaker. Svech was actually supposed to be a day-1 guy and he's only been OK. Even Dahlin isn't that remarkable. Zadina has played 16 games as a pro, and has 10 points. He's not really struggling. No more than any of the dozen or so players who might have been able to make an NHL roster this year, but fell short. 

Take a look at players drafted in the 3-6 range over the past couple decades. If you were expecting a star out of the gate, or even just an obvious future star, then you weren't paying attention. You let yourself get caught up in the hype you're now trying to project on everyone else.

People who know so much more than you that you literally aren't even capable of understanding how much more they know have said Zadina has elite potential. He does. Odds are he won't make it. That's not a prediction, nor analysis, nor pessimism. It's just reality. Most prospects don't hit their potential. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't get excited about potential, or should start doubting it if it isn't reached in the first couple months.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 hours ago, Buppy said:

Your narrative is somewhat skewed. 

For one, let's stop acting like Zadina was a first overall pick. Despite the perfectly justified excitement, he wasn't expected to be a star from day 1. Pretty much all the scouting reports had him borderline NHL-ready at best, as is the case with almost every top player. He got some notice from world juniors, but by the draft he and Tkachuk were considered similar, a tier below Dahlin and Svechnikov. Kotkaniemi was a late riser, under the radar most of the season before getting a ton of hype close to the draft. Usually a guy like that most years. Kind of a stretch to say Zadina really "fell" in the draft. Two of the five taken ahead of him were always expected to be, a 3rd could have gone either way, and a 4th was a late-riser who was also selected largely because of position. The only guy that was a true reach was Hayton, who was also position based and taken ahead of several other players ranked ahead of him besides Zadina. There were also those defensemen who could have easily gone top-5 if a team had been more in need.

To say anyone is "massively" anything after 10-20 games is ridiculous. Tkachuk has had a few good games. Kotka has been alright, but hardly a game-breaker. Svech was actually supposed to be a day-1 guy and he's only been OK. Even Dahlin isn't that remarkable. Zadina has played 16 games as a pro, and has 10 points. He's not really struggling. No more than any of the dozen or so players who might have been able to make an NHL roster this year, but fell short. 

Take a look at players drafted in the 3-6 range over the past couple decades. If you were expecting a star out of the gate, or even just an obvious future star, then you weren't paying attention. You let yourself get caught up in the hype you're now trying to project on everyone else.

People who know so much more than you that you literally aren't even capable of understanding how much more they know have said Zadina has elite potential. He does. Odds are he won't make it. That's not a prediction, nor analysis, nor pessimism. It's just reality. Most prospects don't hit their potential. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't get excited about potential, or should start doubting it if it isn't reached in the first couple months.

Ok the vast majority of what I wrote was about how he plays. Do you have anything to say about that, or are you just gonna try blow up a minor point in my post?

Zadina was at one point ranked #1 overall. No one expected him to be available at 6 at the draft, not even the Wings. The hype all summer was he could possibly make the team straight out the gate, or at least light up the AHL. He didn't make the team and he's not lighting up the AHL, so that's the "disappointment" premise I'm operating under. I think we can all acknowledge that and be big boys and girls about it and move forward.

Have you watched him play? Let me know what you think of his play. I was pretty generous in my assessment of him. Didn't call him a bust, said he bottoms out at Hudler level. I used Hudler because I think they have slightly similar qualities as wingers and I think his floor is around a 50 to 60 pt player... Do you disagree?

Edited November 21, 2018 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

11 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Ok the vast majority of what I wrote was about how he plays. Do you have anything to say about that, or are you just gonna try blow up a minor point in my post?

Zadina was at one point ranked #1 overall. No one expected him to be available at 6 at the draft, not even the Wings. The hype all summer was he could possibly make the team straight out the gate, or at least light up the AHL. He didn't make the team and he's not lighting up the AHL, so that's the "disappointment" premise I'm operating under. I think we can all acknowledge that and be big boys and girls about it and move forward.

Have you watched him play? Let me know what you think of his play. I was pretty generous in my assessment of him. Didn't call him a bust, said he bottoms out at Hudler level. I used Hudler because I think they have slightly similar qualities as wingers and I think his floor is around a 50 to 60 pt player... Do you disagree?

I bolded the part he'll try and cherry pick. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

59 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I bolded the part he'll try and cherry pick. 

Buppy, cherry pick? Never...

[Dabura 12,207]

lazy and sucks

very very very disappointing

should've drafted hossa

soft euro

fire holland

[Dabura 12,207]

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

10 minutes ago, Dabura said:

lazy and sucks

very very very disappointing

should've drafted hossa

soft euro

fire holland

 

4 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Sorry, I didn't realize Zads is a lefty. My opinion was wrong, please ignore.

[Buppy 1,720]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Ok the vast majority of what I wrote was about how he plays. Do you have anything to say about that, or are you just gonna try blow up a minor point in my post?

Zadina was at one point ranked #1 overall. No one expected him to be available at 6 at the draft, not even the Wings. The hype all summer was he could possibly make the team straight out the gate, or at least light up the AHL. He didn't make the team and he's not lighting up the AHL, so that's the "disappointment" premise I'm operating under. I think we can all acknowledge that and be big boys and girls about it and move forward.

Have you watched him play? Let me know what you think of his play. I was pretty generous in my assessment of him. Didn't call him a bust, said he bottoms out at Hudler level. I used Hudler because I think they have slightly similar qualities as wingers and I think his floor is around a 50 to 60 pt player... Do you disagree?

1 hour ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I bolded the part he'll try and cherry pick. 

Yep, made it my priority just for you, because it is technically wrong. We were talking about him possibly being there before the draft. You can go back and look.

And yes, I'm mostly talking about a minor point in your post. The rest of it is generic drivel, and even if it's accurate it doesn't mean anything because it's only been two months. I'm not going to watch what I'm guessing is probably less than an hour of his play and think it makes me qualified to make an accurate assessment of his future. His floor is where he is now, and his ceiling according to experts is "elite scorer". 

My point is it's ok to get excited about a kid's potential, and talk about kids optimistically. That's not over-hyping anything, nor does it justify "disappointment" after 16 games. 

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

11 minutes ago, Buppy said:

Yep, made it my priority just for you, because it is technically wrong. We were talking about him possibly being there before the draft. You can go back and look.

And yes, I'm mostly talking about a minor point in your post. The rest of it is generic drivel, and even if it's accurate it doesn't mean anything because it's only been two months. I'm not going to watch what I'm guessing is probably less than an hour of his play and think it makes me qualified to make an accurate assessment of his future. His floor is where he is now, and his ceiling according to experts is "elite scorer". 

My point is it's ok to get excited about a kid's potential, and talk about kids optimistically. That's not over-hyping anything, nor does it justify "disappointment" after 16 games. 

 

Bolded: Idk what you're talking about here, can you elaborate? Sorry I like half read most of your posts.

Ok so when am I allowed to post my generic drivel? 20 games in? 50 games in? 1 season in? 2 seasons in? 5? 10? What's appropriate here?

[Buppy 1,720]

7 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Bolded: Idk what you're talking about here, can you elaborate? Sorry I like half read most of your posts.

It's one of life's great mysteries. The value is in figuring it out for yourself. If I have to tell you the answer, you aren't ready to hear it.

7 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Ok so when am I allowed to post my generic drivel? 20 games in? 50 games in? 1 season in? 2 seasons in? 5? 10? What's appropriate here?

You're confused. You can post it any time you want, just like I can call it stupid any time I want. It's, like, one of the top 8 perks of freedom. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, Buppy said:

It's one of life's great mysteries. The value is in figuring it out for yourself. If I have to tell you the answer, you aren't ready to hear it.

You're confused. You can post it any time you want, just like I can call it stupid any time I want. It's, like, one of the top 8 perks of freedom. 

Thanks Dad

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

19 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

 Sorry I like half read most of your posts.

This would crush me if it was said to me.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

This would crush me if it was said to me.

Sorry I like half read most of your posts. 

 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

2 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

This would cru

< half actually

Edited November 22, 2018 by The 91 of Ryans

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

5 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Sorry I like half read most of your posts. 

 

Sorry, Neo.  Dont care if you dont.  Just CRL.  Sorry.

[Prolix 65]

17 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Sorry, Neo.  Dont care if you dont.  Just CRL.  Sorry.

Are you posting from a typewriter?

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

4 hours ago, Prolix said:

Are you posting from a typewriter?

And if so?

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

And if so?