2019 Draft

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Would anyone trade Zadina and our 6th to move up into the top 3 meaning that we get Hughes Kakko or Byram?

3 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Tag Bertuzzi is eligible to be drafted this year.

9 pts in 30 games in the OHL this year.

Maybe we can waste our 2nd rounder on him like we did with Tyler?

 I feel like we should get the Pennsylvania Fish and Game Wardens involved with this.

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Would anyone trade Zadina and our 6th to move up into the top 3 meaning that we get Hughes Kakko or Byram?

No.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

34 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Okay, so you don't think Zadina is destined to be a bust? Good talk...

Yeah you've been straw manning my position for the past few pages.

You literally went on a cuss rant about me calling Zadina a bust, and in the same post responded to me saying his ceiling was 80 points...

 

 

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

17 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yeah you've been straw manning my position for the past few pages.

You literally went on a cuss rant about me calling Zadina a bust, and in the same post responded to me saying his ceiling was 80 points...

No strawmaning. I was asking you over and over again if you think Zadina is a bust. Instead of answering the question you beat around the bush and we had a pointless discussion for several pages...

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I'll pass. I get the feeling Zadina and Rasmussen will get called up relatively quickly next season. Maybe we even see a little Joe Veleno in Detroit too.

No way Hughes is better

Well see what happens I think zadina has a shot to start depending how his preseason starts l Rasmussen Starts down but if he produces gets called up early I think since it’s veleno’s first year he will start down the whole year regardless unless it’s the same situation like zadina and he plays a few games at the end , think Stevie has his eye on a top 5 pick next year ... he’s bringing back tootoo and Samuelson 

 

and i prefer schwartzenneger  over devito 

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by nyqvististhefuture

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

18 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

No strawmaning. I was asking you over and over again if you think Zadina is a bust. Instead of answering the question you beat around the bush and we had a pointless discussion for several pages...

You asked once, and I answered:

On 5/14/2019 at 9:17 AM, krsmith17 said:

You had Zadina penciled in at 3, but yet you think he's going to be a bust?

On 5/14/2019 at 9:22 AM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I think Zadina will be about as good as Tatar or Nyquist was. Contributor, but not someone you build a team around.

Despite my answer that I think he will be a contributor, you continued misrepresenting my position (strawman):

On 5/14/2019 at 9:46 AM, krsmith17 said:

Does that constitute a bust though?

On 5/14/2019 at 9:56 AM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I think it's a joy when 2nd rounders and 4th rounders become contributors like Tatar and Nyquist are. I think it will be a disappointment if a guy taken at 6th overall, who was ranked top 3 in his draft, only ever amounts to Tatar or Nyquist level. Might as well have just kept Tatar and/or Nyquist at that point. 

At this point I've made it pretty clear I think Zadina is similar to Nyquist/Tatar, both top 6 wingers

Yet you continue to assert that I think he's a bust:

23 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Either way, to call Zadina a bust after one season is beyond f***ing stupid in my opinion...

22 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I'll leave it at this: Zadina's first season as pro was disappointing, just like Larkin's sophomore season was disappointing. That doesn't mean I think Larkin is a dumpster player.

Hint not taken and continued:

10 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

you should understand how dumb it is to assume he will be a bust...

8 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

The only reason any of this is being discussed right now is because you and mackel started calling Zadina a bust. And I'm not sure which is worse... mackel calling him a bust because he watched him a few times in his draft year in Halifax, or you calling him a bust because he's not as good as Larkin was at the same age...

"You called him a bust" Which I never did, so I finally call you out:

8 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I mean by all means, keep reverting back to this straw man if that's all you have to discredit my POV. You know exactly where I stand on Zadina's floor and cieling.

At this point I've compared Zadina to Nyquist/Tatar multiple times and explicitly called him a likely 50 to 60 pt winger

Never the less, you continue:

7 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Zadina is behind where Larkin was at the same age does not equal Zadina is / will be a bust...

6 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

AGAIN, Zadina having a disappointing season as a first year pro, younger than all his peers, is NOT equal to Zadina is / will be a bust. Zadina had a disappointing season. So f***ing what?

So is that his floor or ceiling? If you're saying it's his floor, I agree. If you're saying it's his ceiling, I think you're way off on your projection.

5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

His floor is idk, 30 pt winger? But I think that's unlikley

His ceiling is probably like 80 pts... at least that's what I thought when we drafted him.

Now I've even given you an 80 pt ceiling and 30 pt foor. But apparently I still think he's a bust:

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

What myself and others are disagreeing with you (and mackel) on, is calling him a bust as a teenager after ONE f***ing season in the pros... It is "dumb" and "f***ing stupid"...

You then go on to say that you're "expecting a much bigger second season out of him"... Why would you be "expecting" anything out of him, if you already consider him a "bust"?

Fair enough. I'm not too far off those numbers, although I'd say his floor is a little higher. I also think he's much more likely to come closer to his ceiling than floor.

Then my favorite

After calling out your straw-manning a second time, you simply write out a fake quote lol

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

No strawman here. You're the one that said he was a bust...

CRL: "Zadina is a bust".

*pages of debating whether or not Zadina is a bust*

CRL: "You know I don't actually think he's busted"...

... Okay.

If you got mixed up and honestly thought I called Zadina a bust somewhere down the line, just call it an oops and move on. But I didn't just lay hints, I explicitly called him a 50/60 point player, 80 pt ceiling, Nyquist/Tatar similar, future contributor, multiple times directly to you. So don't put your oops on me.

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You asked once, and I answered:

Despite my answer that I think he will be a contributor, you continued misrepresenting my position (strawman):

At this point I've made it pretty clear I think Zadina is similar to Nyquist/Tatar, both top 6 wingers

Yet you continue to assert that I think he's a bust:

Hint not taken and continued:

"You called him a bust" Which I never did, so I finally call you out:

At this point I've compared Zadina to Nyquist/Tatar multiple times and explicitly called him a likely 50 to 60 pt winger

Never the less, you continue:

Now I've even given you an 80 pt ceiling and 30 pt foor. But apparently I still think he's a bust:

Then my favorite

After calling out your straw-manning a second time, you simply write out a fake quote lol

If you got mixed up and honestly thought I called Zadina a bust somewhere down the line, just call it an oops and move on. But I didn't just lay hints, I explicitly called him a 50/60 point player, 80 pt ceiling, Nyquist/Tatar similar, future contributor, multiple times directly to you. So don't put your oops on me.

I'm certain you've called him a bust at some point, but I don't have the time or patience to go back through your post history to look for it. Anyway, I guess we agree, so whatever. Apparently there's just one moron that thinks Zadina is a bust then. My apologies.

Anyway, back on topic... sorta... Does anyone here have a subscription to NextGenHockey? I've heard they have some great draft prospect profiles. Just wondering if it's worth the subscription...

[amato 3,210]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Would anyone trade Zadina and our 6th to move up into the top 3 meaning that we get Hughes Kakko or Byram? 

Top two, maybe 

[mackel 679]

24 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm certain you've called him a bust at some point, but I don't have the time or patience to go back through your post history to look for it. Anyway, I guess we agree, so whatever. Apparently there's just one moron that thinks Zadina is a bust then. My apologies.

Anyway, back on topic... sorta... Does anyone here have a subscription to NextGenHockey? I've heard they have some great draft prospect profiles. Just wondering if it's worth the subscription...

I'm not a moron.... I dont appreciate being called a moron. And you can go FYS... 

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 minutes ago, mackel said:

I'm not a moron.... I dont appreciate being called a moron. And you can go FYS... 

Don't worry man, I wasn't talking about you...

[mackel 679]

6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Don't worry man, I wasn't talking about you...

GFYS

[BringBack19 110]

So since we are all airing grievances against each other, where the hell is Dabura’s mock draft? #fakenewsDabura #dickteasedabura 

3 minutes ago, mackel said:

GFYS

You were better when you were just trolling... Acronyms suck like Zagina...

[krsmith17 7,191]

23 minutes ago, mackel said:

GFYS

YACSPOFS

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

5 hours ago, mackel said:

Floor:  Helm Prime

Ceiling:  Nyquist Prime

Even if he reaches what I consider his ceiling their would have been better options at 6.

Its not stupid it's a reasonable concern based on a less than stellar season (that's a kind description).  Calling someone stupid because you don't agree with them is childish.

Being reasonably concerned he's going to bust and calling him a bust are two completely different things. This is why I think you're a troll. 

Also less than stellar is not a kind description, It's a pretty reasonable one. By all accounts people are happy with his season as a 19 year old playing his first pro season and most times I've heard it talked about people considered his numbers respectable. Like everyone else I wish he'd torn the league apart and been a 2 ppg player, but just because he didn't doesn't suddenly make his season terrible.

Also, how many Griffins games have you even watched this year?

Also Also, nobody called you stupid. A line of reasoning that was extremely stupid was referred to as stupid. Although I'm starting to wonder about you.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Wheelchairsuperhero

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Its gettin hot in herr.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm certain you've called him a bust at some point, but I don't have the time or patience to go back through your post history to look for it. Anyway, I guess we agree, so whatever. Apparently there's just one moron that thinks Zadina is a bust then. My apologies.

Anyway, back on topic... sorta... Does anyone here have a subscription to NextGenHockey? I've heard they have some great draft prospect profiles. Just wondering if it's worth the subscription...

I"m sure I did sarcastically/ironically at some point.

I've been non-sarcastically arguing that he's comparable to Hudler since like Novemeber though.

The theory sort of being that Zadina is a one-dimensional passenger style player, kinda like Jiri. On an average 2nd/3rd line he will be average, but give him a center like Johnny hockey (or Dylan Larkin) and he might score 70+ points. IDK just a theory though.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 hours ago, mackel said:

I'm not a moron.... I dont appreciate being called a moron. And you can go FYS... 

 

1 hour ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

Being reasonably concerned he's going to bust and calling him a bust are two completely different things. This is why I think you're a troll. 

Also less than stellar is not a kind description, It's a pretty reasonable one. By all accounts people are happy with his season as a 19 year old playing his first pro season and most times I've heard it talked about people considered his numbers respectable. Like everyone else I wish he'd torn the league apart and been a 2 ppg player, but just because he didn't doesn't suddenly make his season terrible.

Also, how many Griffins games have you even watched this year?

Also Also, nobody called you stupid. A line of reasoning that was extremely stupid was referred to as stupid. Although I'm starting to wonder about you.

@mackel is entitled to his opinion, however outrageous it may seem. We should be asking why poster X thinks player X is bad instead of calling people morons, or stupid, or trolls, or whatever TBH. A lot of people around here didn't like me when I first decided I thought Mrazek was s***... so I kinda know the feels

What I like about Zadina:
Accurate shot. Strong shot. Despite only 16 goals in the AHL this year I think he has sniper written all over him. His passing is underrated. Not lazy, definitely competes every shift, at least from what I've seen. Will back check and steal a puck off an attacker if he can. Hands are great quality and can cut to the middle and unload his shot when he wants to.

What I don't like about Zadina:
Foot speed/Foot work is average. Defensive abilities vastly overstated prior to the draft (I hope this can be taught with systems). His creativity one on one is sound, but I question his creativity working with teammates (kind of reminds me of AA).

My worry would be that Zadina ends up a trigger man. Kinda like how Hudler was. Or kinda like how AA is known for his breakaways, whereas Zadina would be known for being the finisher to a setup guy. Takeaway the setup guy and his offense disappears. I just also never feel the raw excitement I got from watching Larkin when I watch Zadina. Maybe Larkin is just an exciting style player and Zadina is not, or maybe Larkin's just better.

100% of that is speculation and amateur opinion, but I'd be curious to know what  @mackel 's opinion is on Zadina's ability...

 

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

10 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

 

@mackel is entitled to his opinion, however outrageous it may seem. We should be asking why poster X thinks player X is bad instead of calling people morons, or stupid, or trolls, or whatever TBH. A lot of people around here didn't like me when I first decided I thought Mrazek was s***... so I kinda know the feels

What I like about Zadina:
Accurate shot. Strong shot. Despite only 16 goals in the AHL this year I think he has sniper written all over him. His passing is underrated. Not lazy, definitely competes every shift, at least from what I've seen. Will back check and steal a puck off an attacker if he can. Hands are great quality and can cut to the middle and unload his shot when he wants to.

What I don't like about Zadina:
Foot speed/Foot work is average. Defensive abilities vastly overstated prior to the draft (I hope this can be taught with systems). His creativity one on one is sound, but I question his creativity working with teammates (kind of reminds me of AA).

My worry would be that Zadina ends up a trigger man. Kinda like how Hudler was. Or kinda like how AA is known for his breakaways, whereas Zadina would be known for being the finisher to a setup guy. Takeaway the setup guy and his offense disappears. I just also never feel the raw excitement I got from watching Larkin when I watch Zadina. Maybe Larkin is just an exciting style player and Zadina is not, or maybe Larkin's just better.

100% of that is speculation and amateur opinion, but I'd be curious to know what  @mackel 's opinion is on Zadina's ability...

 

When I call him a troll, It's because I legitimately believe he's trolling sometimes. That's how outrageous I find some of the posts. 

I don't have a problem with his opinion, I have an issue with how he continues to frame it.

Also I'm pretty with you on the likes/dislikes right now, although I may be less worried about his creativity with his teammates. All the things you've been saying regarding Zadina are perfectly reasonable, involving reasonable concerns. It's quite a bit different from:

"He's a bust, I've known it since juniors, bad pick."   <-----stupid

Ya feel? I'm not attacking the guy personally, but I'm definitely going to call out the nonsense. 

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

10 minutes ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

When I call him a troll, It's because I legitimately believe he's trolling sometimes. That's how outrageous I find some of the posts. 

I don't have a problem with his opinion, I have an issue with how he continues to frame it.

Also I'm pretty with you on the likes/dislikes right now, although I may be less worried about his creativity with his teammates. All the things you've been saying regarding Zadina are perfectly reasonable, involving reasonable concerns. It's quite a bit different from:

"He's a bust, I've known it since juniors, bad pick."   <-----stupid

Ya feel? I'm not attacking the guy personally, but I'm definitely going to call out the nonsense. 

 

Fersure. Which is why I want him to expand on what he thinks of Zagina's abilities and why he thinks Zagina is a bust.

A hard opinion should have decent reasoning behind it 100%

I'm willing to bet a good portion of what he'll say will be based on him slipping in the draft based on what I've seen him post before. To that I'd say, I was thrilled when we drafted Zadina, but after the fact I'm a little more skeptical. Zadina was advertised pre draft as a player who played a sound two way game without almost no faults. One of the only pre drafts knocks I could find on him was that he was "small" (he's 6 ft almost 200 lbs, not small). I definitely do not think his defensive game is up to par with what was advertised. I think he's currently closer to Hudler than he is too Hossa. And once I feel like I've been lied too I start picking apart the players game to figure out what else I've been lied to about.

Now I'm rambling and I'll stop, I don't wanna speak for @mackel

 

[xault 272]

4 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Its gettin hot in herre.

 

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

10 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Would anyone trade Zadina and our 6th to move up into the top 3 meaning that we get Hughes Kakko or Byram?

 I feel like we should get the Pennsylvania Fish and Game Wardens involved with this.

top 2 yes, top 3 no. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 hours ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

When I call him a troll, It's because I legitimately believe he's trolling sometimes. That's how outrageous I find some of the posts. 

I don't have a problem with his opinion, I have an issue with how he continues to frame it.

Also I'm pretty with you on the likes/dislikes right now, although I may be less worried about his creativity with his teammates. All the things you've been saying regarding Zadina are perfectly reasonable, involving reasonable concerns. It's quite a bit different from:

"He's a bust, I've known it since juniors, bad pick."   <-----stupid

Ya feel? I'm not attacking the guy personally, but I'm definitely going to call out the nonsense. 

Exactly this. I didn't start "attacking" mackel because of his dumb opinions, I started "attacking" mackel because of the way he went about expressing those opinions and how often he did it. Every. single. time Zadina was brought up, he would come spewing the same bulls*** about how "Zadina is a bust". Even when Podkolzin was brought up, he had to bring up how "Zadina is a bust".

I then seen CRL saying the same s***, not realizing that he was being sarcastic (should have known better)...

But yeah, "Zadina is a bust because I watched him a few games in juniors and he dropped a few spots in the draft for a reason"... is the dumbest "reason" to call a players a "bust"...

CRL, I pretty much agree with your assessment. I just don't share the same concern about him being a triggerman, or being the finisher to a setup guy... Every setup guy needs a finisher and every finisher needs a setup guy. I don't see the issue with Zadina being one half of that equation.

Like you mentioned, he has all the tools; shooting, passing, stick-handling, etc. His skating obviously isn't elite, but it won't hold him back (like Hudler).

I agree that Larkin should be a good measuring stick in a couple years, but I don't understand comparing Zadina to Larkin in play style. They're two completely different players. Ideally, Larkin will be a 25-35 goal, 50-60 assist center, and Zadina will be a 30-40 goal, 30-40 assist winger. Zadina probably won't ever drive offense like Larkin, but he'll be a key cog in the offensive production.

[marcaractac 3,962]

14 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Would anyone trade Zadina and our 6th to move up into the top 3 meaning that we get Hughes Kakko or Byram?

 I feel like we should get the Pennsylvania Fish and Game Wardens involved with this.

I'd do it for Hughes or Kakko without hesitation. 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

9 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

 

 

What I like about Hull:
Accurate shot. Strong shot. Despite only 16 goals in the AHL this year I think he has sniper written all over him. His passing is underrated. Not lazy, definitely competes every shift, at least from what I've seen. Will back check and steal a puck off an attacker if he can. Hands are great quality and can cut to the middle and unload his shot when he wants to.

What I don't like about Hull:
Foot speed/Foot work is average. Defensive abilities vastly overstated prior to the draft (I hope this can be taught with systems). His creativity one on one is sound, but I question his creativity working with teammates (kind of reminds me of Bossy).

My worry would be that Hull ends up a trigger man. Kinda like how Esposito was. Or kinda like how LaFleuer is known for his breakaways, whereas Hull would be known for being the finisher to a setup guy. Takeaway the setup guy and his offense disappears. I just also never feel the raw excitement I got from watching Messier when I watch Hull. Maybe Messier is just an exciting style player and Hull is not, or maybe Messier's just better.

100% of that is speculation and amateur opinion, but I'd be curious to know what  @mackel 's opinion is on Hull's ability...

 

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by Jonas Mahonas

[kipwinger 8,518]

So Kaapo Kakko is still torching NHL players at the World Championships I see.  Not bad for a guy who's definitely not even close to as good as Jack Hughes eh @Dabura?