2019 Draft

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

59 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

 

Who's Hull?

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

So Kaapo Kakko is still torching NHL players at the World Championships I see.  Not bad for a guy who's definitely not even close to as good as Jack Hughes eh @Dabura?

So far in tournament

KK - 6G 0A 

JH - 000000000000000s

Glad I'm not making decisions for NJD and would looooove to be in NYR position right now. MOtherf***ers. 

 

Edited May 17, 2019 by The 91 of Ryans

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

JH - 000000000000000s

Bust

[kipwinger 8,522]

2 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

So far in tournament

KK - 6G 0A 

JH - 000000000000000s

 

 

That's just because Hughes is chess, and Kakko is checkers.  Hughes' impact takes a really long time to set up, he'll probably deliver the coup de grace in USA's final game...long after they're out of medal contention lol. 

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

1 hour ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

So far in tournament

KK - 6G 0A 

JH - 000000000000000s

Glad I'm not making decisions for NJD and would looooove to be in NYR position right now. MOtherf***ers. 

 

Isn't Kakko used to playing against professionals? Hughes has been playing against children so far in a developmental U.S. league.  Big difference as to who's NHL ready at the current moment.  

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

18 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

Isn't Kakko used to playing against professionals? Hughes has been playing against children so far in a developmental U.S. league.  Big difference as to who's NHL ready at the current moment.  

Yup, that's why I want no part of zegras or turcotte.  The usndp players are all real good at beating team Honduras 22-1.  Good for them.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

8 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Yup, that's why I want no part of zegras or turcotte.  The usndp players are all real good at beating team Honduras 22-1.  Good for them.

That's not necessarily what I meant, though.  My point was that those players are not as NHL ready as Kakko who plays in a professional league against grown men.  That's not to say, though, that their ceiling is lower than his.  Only time will tell whose ceiling is higher.  Technically, you could say the same thing about Canadians playing in the CHL.  They play against kids also.

If I have the top pick, I'd rather pick a center than a winger.  Higher potential payout if he's a star.  A winger can only have so much impact on a team.  Even the two best wingers in the league the last 50 years (Jagr and Ovechkin), didn't win a single Stanley Cup without some good center ice depth.  In Jagr's case it was in his first couple of seasons.  As good as Kakko is, he'll need some top centers to complement him. 

Of course, New Jersey already has Taylor Hall, so it's easier for them to pick Hughes.     

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

1 hour ago, GMRwings1983 said:

That's not necessarily what I meant, though.  My point was that those players are not as NHL ready as Kakko who plays in a professional league against grown men.  That's not to say, though, that their ceiling is lower than his.  Only time will tell whose ceiling is higher.  Technically, you could say the same thing about Canadians playing in the CHL.  They play against kids also.

If I have the top pick, I'd rather pick a center than a winger.  Higher potential payout if he's a star.  A winger can only have so much impact on a team.  Even the two best wingers in the league the last 50 years (Jagr and Ovechkin), didn't win a single Stanley Cup without some good center ice depth.  In Jagr's case it was in his first couple of seasons.  As good as Kakko is, he'll need some top centers to complement him. 

Of course, New Jersey already has Taylor Hall, so it's easier for them to pick Hughes.     

 I agree with you.  The US players are not developed as well as other countries.

[kipwinger 8,522]

2 hours ago, GMRwings1983 said:

That's not necessarily what I meant, though.  My point was that those players are not as NHL ready as Kakko who plays in a professional league against grown men.  That's not to say, though, that their ceiling is lower than his.  Only time will tell whose ceiling is higher.  Technically, you could say the same thing about Canadians playing in the CHL.  They play against kids also.

If I have the top pick, I'd rather pick a center than a winger.  Higher potential payout if he's a star.  A winger can only have so much impact on a team.  Even the two best wingers in the league the last 50 years (Jagr and Ovechkin), didn't win a single Stanley Cup without some good center ice depth.  In Jagr's case it was in his first couple of seasons.  As good as Kakko is, he'll need some top centers to complement him. 

Of course, New Jersey already has Taylor Hall, so it's easier for them to pick Hughes.     

I agree with everything you say, but I'd add that many analysts believe Hughes projects as a winger at the NHL level and he's most often compared to Patrick Kane and Johnny Gaudreau, both wingers.  So this take - though sound in principle - might not be that relevant in the case of Kakko and Hughes. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Kakko and Byram will both be better than Hughes.

[Dabura 12,207]

6 hours ago, kipwinger said:

So Kaapo Kakko is still torching NHL players at the World Championships I see.  Not bad for a guy who's definitely not even close to as good as Jack Hughes eh @Dabura?

William Nylander has way more points than Larkin. William Nylander >>> Dylan Larkin.

[kipwinger 8,522]

9 hours ago, Dabura said:

William Nylander has way more points than Larkin. William Nylander >>> Dylan Larkin.

William Nylander might actually be better than Larkin.  He has been better for significant portions of his NHL career.  The only year he was obviously worse was this year, so that's actually a terrible example of what you're trying to prove. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by kipwinger

[Dabura 12,207]

4 hours ago, kipwinger said:

William Nylander might actually be better than Larkin.  He has been better for significant portions of his NHL career.  The only year he was obviously worse was this year, so that's actually a terrible example of what you're trying to prove. 

Ah, so sample size matters. Interesting.

[Dabura 12,207]

I've always said Kakko is probably the more NHL-ready player. I've always favored him to win the Calder next season. I've always gushed over Kakko.

The only thing you and I disagree about is Hughes versus Kakko. I still think Hughes is better. I still think Kakko is a very, very good winger, while Hughes has the potential to be one of the top centermen in the league.

"OK, but analysts compare Hughes to Kane and Gaudreau and they think he might be a winger." Are these the same analysts you were saying we shouldn't trust because it's obviously in their best interests to push Hughes as a generational player?

"Dude, Hughes has no points in this tournament." Aren't you the same person who's said people put too much stock in international tournaments?

"Look, I'm just saying there's a good chance Hughes' game won't translate to the NHL." Zegras is essentially the same player with the same strengths and the same weaknesses and you love him. (So do I, for the record. And he's who I have the Wings taking at 6.)

"I love him at #6, not #1." And who do you love at #1?

"Kakko." Cool, so this is a boring "Who should go first overall, Player A or Player B?" discussion.

"I'm just saying Corey Pronman said something that echoed what I said before Corey Pronman said it." Cool.

Honestly, at this point, I don't care about Hughes or Kakko, because neither one's gonna be a Wing. If we're gonna be arguing about players, let's argue about ones that could be available at 6.

[Dabura 12,207]

My mock draft of the top 16.

1. NJD -- Jack Hughes
2. NYR -- Kaapo Kakko
3. CHI -- Dylan Cozens
4. COL -- Bowen Byram
5. LAK -- Alex Turcotte
6. DET -- Trevor Zegras
7. BUF -- Kirby Dach
8. EDM -- Matthew Boldy
9. ANA -- Peyton Krebs
10. VAN -- Cole Caufield
11. PHI -- Vasili Podkolzin
12. MIN -- Cam York
13. FLA -- Victor Soderstrom
14. ARI -- Philip Tomasino
15. MTL -- Thomas Harley
16. COL -- Alex Newhook

I'll expand this out to at least halfway through the 2nd round as we get closer to the draft.

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 minutes ago, Dabura said:

My mock draft of the top 16.

1. NJD -- Jack Hughes
2. NYR -- Kaapo Kakko
3. CHI -- Dylan Cozens
4. COL -- Bowen Byram
5. LAK -- Alex Turcotte

This would be worst case scenario for me. I want one of Byram, Cozens or Turcotte, in that order...

8 minutes ago, Dabura said:

         6. DET -- Trevor Zegras

I wouldn't hate this though...

I also wouldn't mind a trade back if that's how the top 5 plays out...

[Dabura 12,207]

28 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

This would be worst case scenario for me. I want one of Byram, Cozens or Turcotte, in that order...

I wouldn't hate this though...

I also wouldn't mind a trade back if that's how the top 5 plays out...

Totally up in the air, as always. Everyone seems convinced Byram is going in the top five and I'm sitting here thinking he could easily slip to 6 because he's a defenseman not named Dahlin or Heiskanen.

19 hours ago, kipwinger said:

That's just because Hughes is chess, and Kakko is checkers.  Hughes' impact takes a really long time to set up, he'll probably deliver the coup de grace in USA's final game...long after they're out of medal contention lol. 

I'm old enough to remember when Elias Pettersson put up one point (an assist) in six games at the 2017 U-20 WJC.

[krsmith17 7,191]

22 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Totally up in the air, as always. Everyone seems convinced Byram is going in the top five and I'm sitting here thinking he could easily slip to 6 because he's a defenseman not named Dahlin or Heiskanen.

I'd be shocked / thrilled if Byram drops to 6. I just don't see it happening. 

[Dabura 12,207]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'd be shocked / thrilled if Byram drops to 6. I just don't see it happening. 

Prob'ly won't happen. But crazier things have happened.

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Prob'ly won't happen. But crazier things have happened.

I can see anyone outside of Hughes, Kakko (obviously) and Byram being available at 6. I'd be more shocked to see Byram sitting there at 6, than I would be to see any of Cozens, Turcotte, Zegras, Dach, Podkolzin, etc. sitting there at 12.

[Dabura 12,207]

1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

I can see anyone outside of Hughes, Kakko (obviously) and Byram being available at 6. I'd be more shocked to see Byram sitting there at 6, than I would be to see any of Cozens, Turcotte, Zegras, Dach, Podkolzin, etc. sitting there at 12.

I'd say that sounds about right, yeah.

On the other hand: defenseman, i.e. crapshoot. Byram might be a slightly better prospect than, say, Cozens (up for debate), but a team might feel safer taking the big, right-shooting, high-scoring, two-way centerman.

In any case, it's gonna be reeeeal interesting watching this 1st round play out.

[kipwinger 8,522]

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

Ah, so sample size matters. Interesting.

Hasn't Kakko been better all season?  He just had a record breaking season in a much harder league. 

[kipwinger 8,522]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

Totally up in the air, as always. Everyone seems convinced Byram is going in the top five and I'm sitting here thinking he could easily slip to 6 because he's a defenseman not named Dahlin or Heiskanen.

I'm old enough to remember when Elias Pettersson put up one point (an assist) in six games at the 2017 U-20 WJC.

I'm old enough to remember you not slobbering all over Pettersson in his draft year like you did with Hughes.  Again, he's chess right?  He's just playing a whole different game than everyone else.   So who cares about his tourney stats, he's not a phenom like your boy Jack.  

 

[Dabura 12,207]

19 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Hasn't Kakko been better all season?  He just had a record breaking season in a much harder league. 

Hughes is also a record-breaking player. Everyone seems to think his schedule and quality of competition as a USDP player is a cake walk, but that isn't the case. I'd also add that while the Liiga is a men's league, that doesn't mean it's filled to the brim with outstanding players. It just means it's a league full of men. A pro league.

That's not to take anything away from what Kakko's done this season. It's extraordinary.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Dabura

[Dabura 12,207]

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I'm old enough to remember you not slobbering all over Pettersson in his draft year like you did with Hughes.

Because Hughes is the more HYPE!-worthy player. Pettersson flew under the radar and now a lot of people look stupid. It happens every year and this draft will probably be no exception.

4 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Again, he's chess right?  He's just playing a whole different game than everyone else.

I mean, yeah, basically. That's why everyone is so high on him. Hughes > Kakko > everyone else. I stand by that claim.

6 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

So who cares about his tourney stats, he's not a phenom like your boy Jack. 

Cry harder, nerd.