2019 Draft

[kipwinger 8,524]

Thanks for using "it" when referring to me.  It's extremely progressive of you to be sensitive to my gender identity.  Most people aren't PC enough to understand that not everyone identifies in a non-binary way. 

Not the case with Philip Broberg though.  He's a b*tch, through and through. 

11 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

"Like Oscar Klefbom" ... "Shutdown defender"

Kipwinger hurt itself in confusion!

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Thanks for using "it" when referring to me.  It's extremely progressive of you to be sensitive to my gender identity.  Most people aren't PC enough to understand that not everyone identifies in a non-binary way. 

Not the case with Philip Broberg though.  He's a b*tch, through and through. 

 

I'm trans-progressive, I identify as progressive when it suits me, much like a politician or shape-shifting reptilian

Which leads me to the obvious question, which one of your dads did Broberg f***? 

[kipwinger 8,524]

26 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I'm trans-progressive, I identify as progressive when it suits me, much like a politician or shape-shifting reptilian

Which leads me to the obvious question, which one of your dads did Broberg f***? 

Neither, he doesn't have enough skill to close the deal. 

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Who do you like with our three 2nds?

Here are a few names that would be nice:

Brett Leason

Samuel Poulin

Nolan Foote

 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

6 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Who do you like with our three 2nds?

Here are a few names that would be nice:

Brett Leason

Samuel Poulin

Nolan Foote

 

Dont know guys outside of top 15. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

12 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Who do you like with our three 2nds?

Here are a few names that would be nice:

Brett Leason

Samuel Poulin

Nolan Foote

 

Tag Bertuzzi

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

16 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Who do you like with our three 2nds?

Here are a few names that would be nice:

Brett Leason

Samuel Poulin

Nolan Foote

 

Up front  ... Beecher, fagemo,puistola,holmstrom,tracey 

defense .... kolyachonok,misyul,Robertson,knyazev,warren,thrun 

goalies ... kotchekov,alnefelt 

 

hopefully we land that 27th from tampa

Edited June 13, 2019 by nyqvististhefuture

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Assuming all players have SOME chance of being a bust, I'd argue it's still a smarter move to draft the one with the higher ceiling.  If your ceiling is "mobile shutdown defender with limited offensive upside" you probably shouldn't be drafted in the Top 10.  But what do I know?

 

It looks more like kipwinger's reading and comprehension have limited upside.

 

Philip Broberg is a smart two-way defenceman with undeniable skill. His fluid skating ability allows him to punish over-extension immediately with how quickly he can start plays from his own end. What his impressive mobility tends to overshadow, though, is his positional play. While he doesn't always make the high percentage play, he is very perceptive and thinks his decisions through. On the fly, he pays close attention to where the puck's going and where it's been. This allows him to read the play early and make the most of any time and space found. All-in-all, Broberg could be the most complete defenceman in his draft class. He's got elite mobility and hockey sense, and he doesn't give up his own end. (Curtis Joe, EP 2018)

 He has exceptional skating ability and exceptional command of the game in every single regard, Craig Button - TSN 2018

 Smooth defenseman, likes to take advantage of his remarkable skating ability and good reach to carry the puck up the ice, Draftin Europe 2018

[kipwinger 8,524]

14 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

 

It looks more like kipwinger's reading and comprehension have limited upside.

 

Philip Broberg is a smart two-way defenceman with undeniable skill. His fluid skating ability allows him to punish over-extension immediately with how quickly he can start plays from his own end. What his impressive mobility tends to overshadow, though, is his positional play. While he doesn't always make the high percentage play, he is very perceptive and thinks his decisions through. On the fly, he pays close attention to where the puck's going and where it's been. This allows him to read the play early and make the most of any time and space found. All-in-all, Broberg could be the most complete defenceman in his draft class. He's got elite mobility and hockey sense, and he doesn't give up his own end. (Curtis Joe, EP 2018)

 He has exceptional skating ability and exceptional command of the game in every single regard, Craig Button - TSN 2018

 Smooth defenseman, likes to take advantage of his remarkable skating ability and good reach to carry the puck up the ice, Draftin Europe 2018

You got me.  I was wrong.  He has undeniable skill, which is why he absolutely tore up Sweden's Allsvenskan (their 2nd level league) to the tune of 2 goals and 7 assists in 41 games this year.  I haven't seen dominance like that from a draft eligible player since...wait for it...Gustav Lindstrom had the EXACT SAME production in 2017.  We took that guy with the 38th overall pick BTW.  So either Broberg is a big reach at 6th, or Lindstrom was the steal of the century at 38th.  Either way, I'm sure it will warm your (easily impressed) little heart to know we already have a right handed, Swedish "two way" defender, with limited offensive upside in our prospect pool.  And we didn't have to waste a top ten pick to get him either.  

[F.Michael 4,590]

18 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/650/sportsnet-tonight-650/june-11-canucks-vs-free-agency/

56:20 mark podkolzin talk

 

At #6 redwings select podkolzin please 

They make Podkolzin sound like...

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

11 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

They make Podkolzin sound like...

Sounds good to me man , Ppl reading too much into players stats alone the kid will be dynamite 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

21 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

You got me.  I was wrong.  He has undeniable skill, which is why he absolutely tore up Sweden's Allsvenskan (their 2nd level league) to the tune of 2 goals and 7 assists in 41 games this year.  I haven't seen dominance like that from a draft eligible player since...wait for it...Gustav Lindstrom had the EXACT SAME production in 2017.  We took that guy with the 38th overall pick BTW.  So either Broberg is a big reach at 6th, or Lindstrom was the steal of the century at 38th.  Either way, I'm sure it will warm your (easily impressed) little heart to know we already have a right handed, Swedish "two way" defender, with limited offensive upside in our prospect pool.  And we didn't have to waste a top ten pick to get him either.  

You must not like Podkolzin very much either

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You must not like Podkolzin very much either

He must of loved daigle 

[kipwinger 8,524]

Just now, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You must not like Podkolzin very much either

I thought you and I had already discussed Podkolzin elsewhere.  No, I don't.  I'm skeptical of his production and think he's highly regarded not because he's effective but because he's flashy.  I'd like him even less if we already had the EXACT same guy already in our prospect pool. 

I've said already, I like Zegras, Dach, Cozens at 6th or Krebs/Newhook in a trade back scenario.  I generally don't like defensemen who don't have offense with a high 1st round selection. 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

I thought you and I had already discussed Podkolzin elsewhere.  No, I don't.  I'm skeptical of his production and think he's highly regarded not because he's effective but because he's flashy.  I'd like him even less if we already had the EXACT same guy already in our prospect pool. 

I've said already, I like Zegras, Dach, Cozens at 6th or Krebs/Newhook in a trade back scenario.  I generally don't like defensemen who don't have offense with a high 1st round selection. 

You make him sound like Tomas Jurco or something. Sounds like his motor, character, and forecheck ability is off the hook. I'm not saying he will/should go as high as 6. But if he does, it won't be because he made a few moves one time in a tournament when he was 16. I like Podkolzen. I also like Zegras, Dach, and Cozens. 

100% agree with you on Broberg. Only someone who thinks AA is as good as Larkin would see something in him worth taking at 6. 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

 

Kids gonna be a beast don’t care what his stats say now

1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

You make him sound like Tomas Jurco or something. Sounds like his motor, character, and forecheck ability is off the hook. I'm not saying he will/should go as high as 6. But if he does, it won't be because he made a few moves one time in a tournament when he was 16. I like Podkolzen. I also like Zegras, Dach, and Cozens. 

100% agree with you on Broberg. Only someone who thinks AA is as good as Larkin would see something in him worth taking at 6. 

Taking broberg at #6 would be stupid but he does have a ton of upside , hopefully we can land a 1st for green for the 2020 draft cause if it’s gonna be as good a draft as this season the more picks in the first round the better 

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

You make him sound like Tomas Jurco or something. Sounds like his motor, character, and forecheck ability is off the hook. I'm not saying he will/should go as high as 6. But if he does, it won't be because he made a few moves one time in a tournament when he was 16. I like Podkolzen. I also like Zegras, Dach, and Cozens. 

100% agree with you on Broberg. Only someone who thinks AA is as good as Larkin would see something in him worth taking at 6. 

I've heard that too.  My issue with him is that none of this has translated to actual offense.  I want a proven player with a top ten pick.  Guys who have all the tools but still haven't figured out how to "put it all together" are perfect for later in the draft and I'd have no problem taking Podkolzin, Broberg, or the like if we had the 20th pick or something.  But in a draft this deep with proven offensive producers I don't see why you'd take a flier on a guy that hasn't figured out how to consistently find the scoresheet with the 6th overall pick. 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

2 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

 

Kids gonna be a beast don’t care what his stats say now

 

FYI. There's only a three vowel difference between beast and bust. 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

2 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

FYI. There's only a three vowel difference between beast and bust. 

Ummm I’ll stick to beast lol , I’ll leave the bust to the krebs of the world 

Lauko is someone I wanted last season and already signed with Boston .... if podkolzin comes here that’ll really bring up the hate for the wings and bruins future playoff series , sign me up 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

I thought you and I had already discussed Podkolzin elsewhere.  No, I don't.  I'm skeptical of his production and think he's highly regarded not because he's effective but because he's flashy.  I'd like him even less if we already had the EXACT same guy already in our prospect pool. 

I've said already, I like Zegras, Dach, Cozens at 6th or Krebs/Newhook in a trade back scenario.  I generally don't like defensemen who don't have offense with a high 1st round selection. 

I certainly don't have a hard on for Broberg, or any player for that matter. I trust the scouts more than I trust my own opinion.

I just find your take on Broberg bizarre. From what I've seen and read he's arguably the most offensively talented Dman in the draft, but he has "limited offensive upside" in your opinion. All the knocks on him I've read are because of his defensive lapses and shakiness in his own zone, yet you call him a "shutdown down Dman".

His production was limited in the tier 1 Swedish mens league, but you can say the same for most all euro Dmen. Broberg is nearly a ppg Dman with players his own age.

What're you reading that I'm not?

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I certainly don't have a hard on for Broberg, or any player for that matter. I trust the scouts more than I trust my own opinion.

I just find your take on Broberg bizarre. From what I've seen and read he's arguably the most offensively talented Dman in the draft, but he has "limited offensive upside" in your opinion. All the knocks on him I've read are because of his defensive lapses and shakiness in his own zone, yet you call him a "shutdown down Dman".

His production was limited in the tier 1 Swedish mens league, but you can say the same for most all euro Dmen. Broberg is nearly a ppg Dman with players his own age.

What're you reading that I'm not?

s*** I guess I’ve been reading the same rubbish nonsense you have ... fml 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

https://www.eprinkside.com/2019/6/13/burke-weighing-the-risk-and-reward-of-nhl-draft-prospect-philip-broberg

 

 just seen this broberg  article 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

You got me.  I was wrong.  He has undeniable skill, which is why he absolutely tore up Sweden's Allsvenskan (their 2nd level league) to the tune of 2 goals and 7 assists in 41 games this year.  I haven't seen dominance like that from a draft eligible player since...wait for it...Gustav Lindstrom had the EXACT SAME production in 2017.  We took that guy with the 38th overall pick BTW.  So either Broberg is a big reach at 6th, or Lindstrom was the steal of the century at 38th.  Either way, I'm sure it will warm your (easily impressed) little heart to know we already have a right handed, Swedish "two way" defender, with limited offensive upside in our prospect pool.  And we didn't have to waste a top ten pick to get him either.  

Broberg is left handed.  Youd know this if you actually did what i told you to do and watched his highlight reel.  And youd also like him a lot more.  Kid is silky.

[kipwinger 8,524]

49 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I certainly don't have a hard on for Broberg, or any player for that matter. I trust the scouts more than I trust my own opinion.

I just find your take on Broberg bizarre. From what I've seen and read he's arguably the most offensively talented Dman in the draft, but he has "limited offensive upside" in your opinion. All the knocks on him I've read are because of his defensive lapses and shakiness in his own zone, yet you call him a "shutdown down Dman".

His production was limited in the tier 1 Swedish mens league, but you can say the same for most all euro Dmen. Broberg is nearly a ppg Dman with players his own age.

What're you reading that I'm not?

My "shutdown" comment was in reference to Oscar Klefbom, to whom Broberg has been compared by the same dorks who compare Hughes to Connor McDavid.  The biggest differences in our perceptions are probably based on a few things.  But first let me explain my standard for evaluation.  Tangible evidnece I value the most, then testimonial evidence, then intangible things (like potential). So...

First, Broberg's offensive output is extremely pedestrian given where we're drafting this year.  As I've already mentioned, Gustav Lindstrom produced at the same rate in Sweden's 2nd tier league, and at a better rate against his peers, in his draft year.  NOBODY around here thinks that guy should have gone 6th overall.  We're not talking about a Rasmus Dahlin here.  We're not even talking about a guy playing in Sweden's top league as a draft eligible.  We're talking about a guy who produced modestly in a 2nd tier league. 

Second, I tend not to put a ton of stock into scouting reports from big media types like Craig Button.  These rankings are, by and large, the standard rankings by which most of the fans/bloggers/etc. develop their impressions of players early on because they're the first ones we see.  I don't do that for a few reasons.  These guys don't actually scout anyone, and only watch tape.  Also, they seem to be extremely susceptible to recency bias (Caufield and Boldy are both in Button's top 5 in his final rankings for instance).  Rather, when looking for an outside opinion I prefer Pronman, who actually does scout players in person.  This is extremely important for European players in particular because a lot of people opining on them have never actually seen them play at all.  Pronman is very skeptical of Broberg's offense. 

Likewise, when people do opine on Broberg the players he's most frequently compared to are NOT difference makers.  Guys like Klefbom, Anton Stralman, and Matthias Ekholm.  All good players, none of which I'd take at 6th overall when guys like Zegras, Cozens, Dach, Caufield, or Krebs will still be on the board. 

Third, this high in the draft I'm extremely skeptical of players who "need to put it all together".  While I understand that all players need further developmental time and none are as good as they're going to be, most of the top of the draft guys have demonstrated that they're elite in their respective leagues prior to the draft.  For example, Cozens' goal scoring as a draft eligible was significantly better than say Joe Veleno's was.  His production was better too.  He's clearly dominating his league in a way that later 1st round guys don't.  Broberg is closer to the latter than the former.  Potential is good, and I'd rather my prospects have it than not, but with this high of a pick in this deep of a draft I need to see something more tangible than "he's got all the physical tools". 

13 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Broberg is left handed.  Youd know this if you actually did what i told you to do and watched his highlight reel.  And youd also like him a lot more.  Kid is silky.

If I put together a highlight real of all the awesome s*** I did this year, and none of the lame stuff, you'd probably be washing my car or something right now.  What's it like to be so impressed by shiny things?

Edited June 13, 2019 by kipwinger

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

27 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

First, Broberg's offensive output is extremely pedestrian given where we're drafting this year.  As I've already mentioned, Gustav Lindstrom produced at the same rate in Sweden's 2nd tier league, and at a better rate against his peers, in his draft year.  NOBODY around here thinks that guy should have gone 6th overall.  We're not talking about a Rasmus Dahlin here.  We're not even talking about a guy playing in Sweden's top league as a draft eligible.  We're talking about a guy who produced modestly in a 2nd tier league.

Gustav Lindstrom is a nice comparison and all, I just don't put that much stock into it. Plenty of players score a lot in their draft year and go on to be nothing. Likewise, plenty of players score much less by comparison, and go on to become NHL offensive contributors. I don't think you can point at Lindstrom and say that's what Broberg is.

I also do not think we will be taking Broberg at 6, but I wouldn't care if we did.

37 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Second, I tend not to put a ton of stock into scouting reports from big media types like Craig Button.  These rankings are, by and large, the standard rankings by which most of the fans/bloggers/etc. develop their impressions of players early on because they're the first ones we see.  I don't do that for a few reasons.  These guys don't actually scout anyone, and only watch tape.  Also, they seem to be extremely susceptible to recency bias (Caufield and Boldy are both in Button's top 5 in his final rankings for instance).  Rather, when looking for an outside opinion I prefer Pronman, who actually does scout players in person.  This is extremely important for European players in particular because a lot of people opining on them have never actually seen them play at all.  Pronman is very skeptical of Broberg's offense. 

I agree with you here. I think it's the wild west after Hughes and Kakko, and I would make a similar statement about almost all drafts. Broberg could be as high as 5 on some teams draft charts, and I think he could low as the 2nd round on others. I don't know, and I don't think Craig Button knows either.

What I think scouting reports are useful for is determining what kinda player you're getting.

If I recall correctly Lindstrom came to us described as a two-way Dman who makes a smart first pass, thinks the game well, and needed to improve his skating.

Broberg by every description I've read is an offensive Dman with great hands, likes to carry the puck up ice, blows by people with his speed, but is prone to defensive lapses and needs to work on his game in his own zone.

Similar stats in their draft years sure, but two very different players. When it comes to Broberg I've seen some calling into question his hockey IQ, which is to explain why he hasn't produced at times. But nobody seems to disagree that he has the raw talent and toolbox to score and produce points.

Based on all that I'd be much more concerned about Broberg's actual defensive play than his stat sheet in the SHL when drafting this player.

57 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Likewise, when people do opine on Broberg the players he's most frequently compared to are NOT difference makers.  Guys like Klefbom, Anton Stralman, and Matthias Ekholm.  All good players, none of which I'd take at 6th overall when guys like Zegras, Cozens, Dach, Caufield, or Krebs will still be on the board. 

Third, this high in the draft I'm extremely skeptical of players who "need to put it all together".  While I understand that all players need further developmental time and none are as good as they're going to be, most of the top of the draft guys have demonstrated that they're elite in their respective leagues prior to the draft.  For example, Cozens' goal scoring as a draft eligible was significantly better than say Joe Veleno's was.  His production was better too.  He's clearly dominating his league in a way that later 1st round guys don't.  Broberg is closer to the latter than the former.  Potential is good, and I'd rather my prospects have it than not, but with this high of a pick in this deep of a draft I need to see something more tangible than "he's got all the physical tools".

When I see comparisons, I again think style of play, not end result. I remember Jarnkrok being compared to Zetterberg and Tvrdon being compared to Hossa. I didn't take that to mean they'd end up with the success of either of those players, just that Jarnkrok was a smart playmaking two-way centerman, and Tvrdon was a defensively sound winger who could score.

Broberg reads to me like a boom/bust prospect. Could be really good, could be really bad. And I agree that because he didn't have a better year this year he'll likely fall outside of the top10 or even top15. He still may very well be the 2nd Dman taken though, and for good reason.