2019 Draft

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Just now, kipwinger said:

Sounds familiar.  Who said that?  Seems like something an extremely handsome, educated, and generally well endowed guy would say right before he signed off LGW to bang all your wives. 

C+ joke dad

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Weak.  That's the Jimmy Howard of LGW responses.  Which, by your standards, means it's probably a top ten post. 

lol your sense of humor increases the more you try to ignore the sinking ship of an argument you built yourself

[kipwinger 8,520]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

C+ joke dad

It's a weak year for jokes, so it's easily a B- given how athletic it seems on its Youtube highlights package. 

And speaking of packages, tell your mom I've got something for her. A package.  Get it? 

What's in the package?  A book detailing the benefits of a gluten free diet.  Progressivism starts at home you batch of deplorables. @Dabura

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

It's a weak year for jokes, so it's easily a B- given how athletic it seems on its Youtube highlights package. 

And speaking of packages, tell your mom I've got something for her. A package.  Get it? 

What's in the package?  A book detailing the benefits of a gluten free diet.  Progressivism starts at home you batch of deplorables. @Dabura

lol your sense of humor increases the more you try to ignore the sinking ship of an argument you built yourself

[kipwinger 8,520]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

lol your sense of humor increases the more you try to ignore the sinking ship of an argument you built yourself

Don't draft an "offensive" defensemen whose offensive skills you've compared to Darren Helm in the top of the first round is a sinking ship argument?  Ok.  Guilty.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Just now, kipwinger said:

Don't draft an "offensive" defensemen whose offensive skills you've compared to Darren Helm in the top of the first round is a sinking ship argument?  Ok.  Guilty.

You read my post where I mentioned Darren Helm. Why misconstrue it? You're smarter than that.

[kipwinger 8,520]

2 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You read my post where I mentioned Darren Helm. Why misconstrue it? You're smarter than that.

No, I didn't read it.  I can't be bothered to go back that many pages.  You crib noted it for me when you said "Lol did you just read my post comparing him to Helm a few posts back where I talked about his IQ and not knowing what to do with the puck? Thanks for parroting it back to me."

Seems like a pretty straight forward, and damning, summary of your comparison and Broberg's "offensive" talent.  Though, I'll allow for the fact that maybe I'm taking you out of context and that when you compared Broberg's puck skills and IQ to Helm's it was actually a compliment. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

No, I didn't read it.  I can't be bothered to go back that many pages. 

It was 1 page ago. You posted on the same page as it 30 minutes ago...

5 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

You crib noted it for me when you said "Lol did you just read my post comparing him to Helm a few posts back where I talked about his IQ and not knowing what to do with the puck? Thanks for parroting it back to me."

Seems like a pretty straight forward, and damning, summary of your comparison and Broberg's "offensive" talent.  Though, I'll allow for the fact that maybe I'm taking you out of context and that when you compared Broberg's puck skills and IQ to Helm's it was actually a compliment. 

Look if you're gonna keep playing avoid and not respond to my last main body of text in our discussion, lets just call it.

I enjoy discussing with you because you're smart and good at arguing, but the dance around feels like a waste of time.

Cheers.

[kipwinger 8,520]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

It was 1 page ago. You posted on the same page as it 30 minutes ago...

Look if you're gonna keep playing avoid and not respond to my last main body of text in our discussion, lets just call it.

I enjoy discussing with you because you're smart and good at arguing, but the dance around feels like a waste of time.

Cheers.

Aren't you the guy who responded "nerd" to my well constructed post a page or so ago.  Didn't realize I owed you anything Your Highness. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

Aren't you the guy who responded "nerd" to my well constructed post a page or so ago.  Didn't realize I owed you anything Your Highness. 

If you'd like me to expand on my comment, I will, no problem.

I agree with you that empirical data is a good basis. A backbone we can rely on when there is a bunch of subjective BS being thrown around. It should be and usually is our backbone when discussing NHL players. However I'd make the same distinction I've been making with Broberg and Brendan Smith. I think it's very hard to look at the stats of a 17/18 year old in some far removed league and say "based on this I know what he will be". With these young players I don't think stats are anywhere near as quality a picture as with someone playing in the NHL.

So when you say this is a player of limited offensive potential, I disagree. Nearly every outlet is reporting offense is where he will most likely flourish, it's a strength of his. I do agree he makes panicky passes after carrying into the zone, but I also have seen how soft of hands he has and I'm not overly concerned with his raw offensive ability. 

So looking only at a stat sheet and saying "this 17 year old in Sweden has limited offensive upside bc this" I yes think is short sighted. Nerd.

Now are you going to address my last main post or not? If not, just bow to your highness already

 

[kipwinger 8,520]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Christ, why would you write your responses inside a quote box? If your purposely making me copy and past everything one by one to be cruel, congrats you have succeeded.

Yeah but that's not the point. You're comparing Boqvist to a guy who barely slipped out of the 1st round and probably could go top 15 next to Noah Dobson in a redraft, and then saying "look, Boqvist isn't any better than a 2nd rounder". That's like me saying Adam Foote should never have been drafted in the 2nd round because Lidstrom was drafted in the 3rd.

We can discuss how asinine it is to "very much not be ok with" selecting a player at 6th overall because you - a person with zero professional training in the industry and no experience scouting this player or any player for that matter - once googled a stat sheet. I'd love to have that discussion with a lot of sports fans.

.Ok please enlighten me how picks 4-12 will play out. I'm excited to see who we're taking.

I thought you didn't trust those scouting reports??

38 pts would have put Klefbom in the top 35 of all Dmen in the league in terms of points this year. Being a 30-40 pt Dman - which is Klefbom's scoring rate - basically means your a top 50 Dman in the league in terms of points. How much do you think Dmen usually score?

Klefbom also led Edmonton's Dmen in PP points and PP time. Plays 1st unit PP and 2nd unit PK. 

What is he again? Shut down Dman?

Lol did you just read my post comparing him to Helm a few posts back where I talked about his IQ and not knowing what to do with the puck? Thanks for parroting it back to me.

Ah now we acknowledge he has the raw tools and potential... and even a high floor! Right on

Nerd

This one?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Just now, kipwinger said:

This one?

Yessir

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

14 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

If you'd like me to expand on my comment, I will, no problem.

I agree with you that empirical data is a good basis. A backbone we can rely on when there is a bunch of subjective BS being thrown around. It should be and usually is our backbone when discussing NHL players. However I'd make the same distinction I've been making with Broberg and Brendan Smith. I think it's very hard to look at the stats of a 17/18 year old in some far removed league and say "based on this I know what he will be". With these young players I don't think stats are anywhere near as quality a picture as with someone playing in the NHL.

So when you say this is a player of limited offensive potential, I disagree. Nearly every outlet is reporting offense is where he will most likely flourish, it's a strength of his. I do agree he makes panicky passes after carrying into the zone, but I also have seen how soft of hands he has and I'm not overly concerned with his raw offensive ability. 

So looking only at a stat sheet and saying "this 17 year old in Sweden has limited offensive upside bc this" I yes think is short sighted. Nerd.

Now are you going to address my last main post or not? If not, just bow to your highness already

 

Stat sheets tells us if a player will a good player  duh

[kipwinger 8,520]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Christ, why would you write your responses inside a quote box? If your purposely making me copy and past everything one by one to be cruel, congrats you have succeeded.

1: Yeah but that's not the point. You're comparing Boqvist to a guy who barely slipped out of the 1st round and probably could go top 15 next to Noah Dobson in a redraft, and then saying "look, Boqvist isn't any better than a 2nd rounder". That's like me saying Adam Foote should never have been drafted in the 2nd round because Lidstrom was drafted in the 3rd.

2: We can discuss how asinine it is to "very much not be ok with" selecting a player at 6th overall because you - a person with zero professional training in the industry and no experience scouting this player or any player for that matter - once googled a stat sheet. I'd love to have that discussion with a lot of sports fans.

3: .Ok please enlighten me how picks 4-12 will play out. I'm excited to see who we're taking.

4: I thought you didn't trust those scouting reports??

5: 38 pts would have put Klefbom in the top 35 of all Dmen in the league in terms of points this year. Being a 30-40 pt Dman - which is Klefbom's scoring rate - basically means your a top 50 Dman in the league in terms of points. How much do you think Dmen usually score?

6: Klefbom also led Edmonton's Dmen in PP points and PP time. Plays 1st unit PP and 2nd unit PK. 

What is he again? Shut down Dman?

7: Lol did you just read my post comparing him to Helm a few posts back where I talked about his IQ and not knowing what to do with the puck? Thanks for parroting it back to me.

8: Ah now we acknowledge he has the raw tools and potential... and even a high floor! Right on

9: Nerd

Here goes:

1: I'm not saying "Boqvist isn't better than a 2nd rounder".  He's better than lots of 2nd rounder probably.  I'm saying that based on his offensive track record prior to the draft he should probably have been drafted somewhere closer to McIsaac than Hughes or Bouchard, and that Chicago didn't get proper value for their pick because they took him too early. I'm also saying that is very likely what will happen if someone drafts Broberg too early given that he has historically produced about a much offense as Gustav Lindstrom, a guy who nobody expects to provide offense in the NHL.  In a regular year Broberg likely goes toward the later half of the first round or beginning of the 2nd.  But it's a weak draft class for defensemen so he's a hot commodity despite his lack of actual accomplishments.

2: If one needs scouting experience to talk about the NHL draft on a Red Wings message board then LGW wouldn't exist.  We're all playing fantasy hockey of sorts, and some of us are trying to do so logically.  Falling back on "well you're not a pro scout and neither am I" is lazy, but also defeats the purpose of joining the board in the first place.

3: That wasn't the point I was making.  The point I was making is that every year people say "it's a toss up between picks 3 and 12, or 4 and 10, or 5 and 11" or whatever.  And if you look back at past drafts, or do a redraft you realize that isn't true.  There's pretty much always separation between the players everyone thinks are in the same tier.  A year ago everyone said Hughes, Bouchard, Boqvist, and Dobson were all a "toss up".  Looks like a bad take to me.  So I disagree with you when you say that after the first two picks it's all up in the air (paraphrasing your argument).  There's going to be MASSIVE separation between the 6th best player in this draft and the 12th.  It behooves the Red Wings to figure out who's better than who, and a good place to start narrowing down their options is to look at who has historically dominated their respective leagues and who hasn't.  Hint: Broberg hasn't. 

4:  I don't.  I just said that those scouting reports (which may be wrong) tend to compare Broberg to guys who have tended to put up pedestrian offensive numbers in the NHL. Maybe it's just a stylistic comparison and he'll be better than Klefbom, Stralman, or whomever.  But it's a risky bet to assume a guy who doesn't score well in a 2nd tier Swedish league is going to start scoring more in the AHL or NHL. 

5:  38 points is pretty mediocre for an "offensive" NHL defenseman.  For reference, Matt Niskanen scored 39 points as a 30 yo in 2017.  It wasn't even his best season.  So again, if you wanna classify Klefbom as an offensive defenseman that's fine, he's a pretty average one.  Unless you're impressed by guys whose best years are roughly equal to a 32 yo journeyman defender's 2nd best season. Not the kind of upside you want to see if you're taking Broberg with a top ten pick.

6:  Edmonton's defense is a nighmare.  Being their best "offensive" defenseman is like being the best Special Olympic Hurdler.  Being a better point man on the powerplay than Darnell Nurse or Adam Larsson is hardly a feather in your cap. Who the hell else was going to do it? Even with all those sweat powerplay minutes (minutes he wouldn't get on a decent team) he still couldn't crack 40 points. But he's "offensive"? 

7: Already been discussed.

8: I've never denied Broberg's physical tools.  Just don't think those alone are worth a top ten pick and that any team who does so will be taking a significant risk considering it's easier for a kid to grow, or improve their skating, after he's drafted than to suddenly develop skills he's never had. Again, all of those things applied to McIsaac and I certainly think he would have been a reach in the top ten. 

9: Already discussed.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

12 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Here goes:

1: I'm not saying "Boqvist isn't better than a 2nd rounder".  He's better than lots of 2nd rounder probably.  I'm saying that based on his offensive track record prior to the draft he should probably have been drafted somewhere closer to McIsaac than Hughes or Bouchard, and that Chicago didn't get proper value for their pick because they took him too early. I'm also saying that is very likely what will happen if someone drafts Broberg too early given that he has historically produced about a much offense as Gustav Lindstrom, a guy who nobody expects to provide offense in the NHL.  In a regular year Broberg likely goes toward the later half of the first round or beginning of the 2nd.  But it's a weak draft class for defensemen so he's a hot commodity despite his lack of actual accomplishments.

I don't disagree with your premise that it's a weak draft year for Dmen. But there's a part of me that thinks it's just a heavy year for high end forwards, and that's why a guy - similar in stats in his draft year and somewhat similar in play and draft position to Boqvist - is probably gonna get pushed to mid 1st round when he might normally have gone 8 or 9 like Boqvist.

Of course that assumes I believe Boqvist was taken at relatively the correct position. And I'm also not convinced Cozens and Zegras and company are all true heavy hitters. So like I said I don't disagree with this premise.

I'll reserve judgement on Boqvist for now. He definitely had a good season in the OHL stat wise but I'm not sure I watched any of the London Knights this year. Really don't know how he looked.

27 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

2: If one needs scouting experience to talk about the NHL draft on a Red Wings message board then LGW wouldn't exist.  We're all playing fantasy hockey of sorts, and some of us are trying to do so logically.  Falling back on "well you're not a pro scout and neither am I" is lazy, but also defeats the purpose of joining the board in the first place.

I'm not saying you need scouting or pro level play experience to discuss hockey. I've been discussing all evening with you despite my inexperience in both categories. I'm saying I think it's dumb to get bent out of shape about a reach in a draft because you developed some amateur expectation for him and the players you perceive to be before him, because you read posts from guys like me and Craig Bottun mock drafts.

For full disclosure, I'm 100% trusting of the scouting staff. Not 99, 100. If the Red Wings selected some player I have never even heard of with the 6th pick, I would be more intrigued and excited than 'not ok with it'. My first thought if they took Tobias Bjornfot with the the 6th, would be "what did I not see in Bjornfot that they did".

Am I being naive in this? I'm asking honestly.

I still enjoy discussing these player even though I place very minimal stock in our media and fan rankings. Helps you to learn what type of player you're drafting. And I'll use this to transition back to Broberg:

I'm not so concerned with where u have Broberg going in the draft. I hope I've been clear about that. I dont' expect him to be taken by us. But I do expect him to be a Dman who will be offensively minded. That's where we but heads about "offensive potential" I think.

51 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

3: That wasn't the point I was making.  The point I was making is that every year people say "it's a toss up between picks 3 and 12, or 4 and 10, or 5 and 11" or whatever.  And if you look back at past drafts, or do a redraft you realize that isn't true.  There's pretty much always separation between the players everyone thinks are in the same tier.  A year ago everyone said Hughes, Bouchard, Boqvist, and Dobson were all a "toss up".  Looks like a bad take to me.  So I disagree with you when you say that after the first two picks it's all up in the air (paraphrasing your argument).  There's going to be MASSIVE separation between the 6th best player in this draft and the 12th.  It behooves the Red Wings to figure out who's better than who, and a good place to start narrowing down their options is to look at who has historically dominated their respective leagues and who hasn't.  Hint: Broberg hasn't.

Bare with me, I'm not sure I understand so clarify if I'm wrong.

My original point was (or at least what I meant by it was), after Kakko and Hughes no one knows where anyone is going. Some think it's Podkolzin, but some also think Podkolzin is dropping to like 20, etc etc.

I think that you are suggesting that their is a tier of players in the 6 to 12 range, and that those players will be mixed in that range, but largely won't fall outside of it. Is that correct?

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

5:  38 points is pretty mediocre for an "offensive" NHL defenseman.  For reference, Matt Niskanen scored 39 points as a 30 yo in 2017.  It wasn't even his best season.  So again, if you wanna classify Klefbom as an offensive defenseman that's fine, he's a pretty average one.  Unless you're impressed by guys whose best years are roughly equal to a 32 yo journeyman defender's 2nd best season. Not the kind of upside you want to see if you're taking Broberg with a top ten pick. 

Ah here's the spicy

I'll use the math you love. Again, assuming there's 186 top 6 Dmen in the league, 38 pts means Klefbom is in the top 17% in point producers among Dmen. Thats's really good.

I would also definitely consider Niskanen an offensively gifted Dman, I pretty much always have. He''s a journeyman? Why cause he changes teams some

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

 6:  Edmonton's defense is a nighmare.  Being their best "offensive" defenseman is like being the best Special Olympic Hurdler.  Being a better point man on the powerplay than Darnell Nurse or Adam Larsson is hardly a feather in your cap. Who the hell else was going to do it? Even with all those sweat powerplay minutes (minutes he wouldn't get on a decent team) he still couldn't crack 40 points. But he's "offensive"?

Again, I don''t think you have a realistic impression of what Dmen score. Klefbom is easily among the top 50 in the league in terms of Dman point getters. Alongside your assessment that he's a "shut down Dman" he should be one of the best Dmen in the league.

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

8: I've never denied Broberg's physical tools.  Just don't think those alone are worth a top ten pick and that any team who does so will be taking a significant risk considering it's easier for a kid to grow, or improve their skating, after he's drafted than to suddenly develop skills he's never had. Again, all of those things applied to McIsaac and I certainly think he would have been a reach in the top ten.

You're making my point. McIsaac probably shouldn't have gone in the top 10... but he probably should've gone in the top 15 or top 20.

Instead he went high 2nd. Demonstrating why, despite stats, a player can be better than what the numbers say in his draft year.

Scouting matters.

[Buppy 1,720]

3 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Here goes:

1: I'm not saying "Boqvist isn't better than a 2nd rounder".  He's better than lots of 2nd rounder probably.  I'm saying that based on his offensive track record prior to the draft he should probably have been drafted somewhere closer to McIsaac than Hughes or Bouchard, and that Chicago didn't get proper value for their pick because they took him too early. I'm also saying that is very likely what will happen if someone drafts Broberg too early given that he has historically produced about a much offense as Gustav Lindstrom, a guy who nobody expects to provide offense in the NHL.  In a regular year Broberg likely goes toward the later half of the first round or beginning of the 2nd.  But it's a weak draft class for defensemen so he's a hot commodity despite his lack of actual accomplishments.

3: That wasn't the point I was making.  The point I was making is that every year people say "it's a toss up between picks 3 and 12, or 4 and 10, or 5 and 11" or whatever.  And if you look back at past drafts, or do a redraft you realize that isn't true.  There's pretty much always separation between the players everyone thinks are in the same tier.  A year ago everyone said Hughes, Bouchard, Boqvist, and Dobson were all a "toss up".  Looks like a bad take to me.  So I disagree with you when you say that after the first two picks it's all up in the air (paraphrasing your argument).  There's going to be MASSIVE separation between the 6th best player in this draft and the 12th.  It behooves the Red Wings to figure out who's better than who, and a good place to start narrowing down their options is to look at who has historically dominated their respective leagues and who hasn't.  Hint: Broberg hasn't. 

1. You're using Boqvist wrong. My point in bringing him up, and what his play demonstrates is almost exactly the opposite of what you're trying to say. Based on his production (or lack thereof) in the SHL/Allsvenskan you would have concluded that he had less offensive potential than the other top D prospects. But then he came to the OHL and scored just as well as the other top guys (while being almost a full year younger). What his track record shows is that European Pro leagues are not the same as NA Jr leagues, so we shouldn't expect similar production. Also, last year was considered very deep for defense, and he still went top-10. Kind of shoots a hole in your theory that Broberg is just being overrated because it's a weak year.

3. That's not what people mean when they say that. It just means that those players look to have similar potential. Of course not all will develop the same. Also it's laughable to think you can already draw any conclusions about last year's draft. 

[Dabura 12,207]

14 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Sure, but that's true of basically every single Canadian and American being discussed in the top 15 to 20 as well.  And as much as everyone acts like the difference between 6 and 12 (for instance) is a roll of the dice, a franchise rebuild literally depends on getting it right.  So you've got to use some set of metrics for separation and I'd say that failing to dominate your respective league (despite heavily touted offensive ability) might be the kind of thing that stops you from drafting a guy at 6 who might better be drafted at 12, again, for instance. 

Just for the record, I'm not really interested in taking Broberg 6th overall. I'm just saying the case against him isn't necessarily cut-and-dry.

[Dabura 12,207]

FC's 2019 NHL Mock Draft [FC Hockey]

Quote

With the sixth overall pick in the 2019 NHL Draft, the Detroit Red Wings are proud to select from the USA NTDP, C Trevor Zegras.

Summary (via Dylan Galloway): With his first selection as the GM Steve Yzerman takes the, creative, two-way forward from the stacked NTDP. Zegras is incredibly mobile making him difficult to contain with the puck and has shown a knack for being able to finish himself or make creative passing plays to create chances on net. Zegras, who also played wing, would be an excellent fit for the rebuilding Red Wings who already boast a loaded cupboard of forward prospects including Zadina and Veleno.

Edited June 15, 2019 by Dabura

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

4 minutes ago, Dabura said:

FC's 2019 NHL Mock Draft [FC Hockey]

Wouldn’t despise zegras , not too big a fan of the 54-66 picks though , hopefully we’ll move up or some guys like holmstrom,fagemo,thrun fall to us , have a feeling we’ll pick up someone sooner who we see upside like struble,ahac,lacombe 

should be a nice draft to watch

[Dabura 12,207]

2 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Wouldn’t despise zegras , not too big a fan of the 54-66 picks though , hopefully we’ll move up or some guys like holmstrom,fagemo,thrun fall to us , have a feeling we’ll pick up someone sooner who we see upside like struble,ahac,lacombe 

should be a nice draft to watch

It's gonna be interesting, no doubt.

[Dabura 12,207]

14 hours ago, kipwinger said:

3: That wasn't the point I was making.  The point I was making is that every year people say "it's a toss up between picks 3 and 12, or 4 and 10, or 5 and 11" or whatever.  And if you look back at past drafts, or do a redraft you realize that isn't true.  There's pretty much always separation between the players everyone thinks are in the same tier.  A year ago everyone said Hughes, Bouchard, Boqvist, and Dobson were all a "toss up".  Looks like a bad take to me.  So I disagree with you when you say that after the first two picks it's all up in the air (paraphrasing your argument).  There's going to be MASSIVE separation between the 6th best player in this draft and the 12th.  It behooves the Red Wings to figure out who's better than who, and a good place to start narrowing down their options is to look at who has historically dominated their respective leagues and who hasn't.  Hint: Broberg hasn't.

Saying there isn't much separation within a group of players is an assessment of perceived potential, not an assertion that said players are all going to have the same success in their respective careers. There's always going to be separation in the long run, and I agree that it behooves any and every team to do everything in their power to get as firm a handle on a given group of players as possible so as to give themselves as good a shot at landing a gamechanging player as possible.

That being said, if I'm an NHL amateur scout, I don't know that I see Broberg's "lack of dominance" as a meaningful point of concern. Maybe I ultimately conclude it is, but I will have reached that conclusion after having sunk countless hours into soul-suckingly tedious deep diving. Is Gustav Lindstrom a good comparable? Is Adam Boqvist a better comparable? Those might be among my first questions -- the first of many increasingly specific questions.

Armchair scouts like us can say, "Broberg isn't truly an offensive defenseman. Just look at his stats," and we'll pat ourselves on the back because that's damn near the smartest thing you're going to read in your average hockey forum discussion. Meanwhile, Official Oilers Scout Guy Who Every Oilers Fan on the Internet Believes to Be a Fool Because He Liked That One Player Who Ultimately Became a Career AHLer and He Really Should Have Known Better has binders full of data and anecdotes on dozens of players and a vault of videos of every game each of those players has ever played.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

Saying there isn't much separation within a group of players is an assessment of perceived potential, not an assertion that said players are all going to have the same success in their respective careers. There's always going to be separation in the long run, and I agree that it behooves any and every team to do everything in their power to get as firm a handle on a given group of players as possible so as to give themselves as good a shot at landing a gamechanging player as possible.

That being said, if I'm an NHL amateur scout, I don't know that I see Broberg's "lack of dominance" as a meaningful point of concern. Maybe I ultimately conclude it is, but I will have reached that conclusion after having sunk countless hours into soul-suckingly tedious deep diving. Is Gustav Lindstrom a good comparable? Is Adam Boqvist a better comparable? Those might be among my first questions -- the first of many increasingly specific questions.

Armchair scouts like us can say, "Broberg isn't truly an offensive defenseman. Just look at his stats," and we'll pat ourselves on the back because that's damn near the smartest thing you're going to read in your average hockey forum discussion. Meanwhile, Official Oilers Scout Guy Who Every Oilers Fan on the Internet Believes to Be a Fool Because He Liked That One Player Who Ultimately Became a Career AHLer and He Really Should Have Known Better has binders full of data and anecdotes on dozens of players and a vault of videos of every game each of those players has ever played.

How much does the guy who makes the binders earn in a year? What is his job title? And how do I get this job with the Red Wings?

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

https://theathletic.com/1014192/2019/06/06/live-qa-corey-pronman-on-the-nhl-draft-friday-at-1-p-m-et/

Q&A with Pronman and someone asked him how Broberg and Bouchard compared as prospects. He said Broberg was better.

I personally don't take him at 6, but found it interesting anyway. I was pretty high on Bouchard during his draft year. 

He also thinks Zegras has the highest potential to be a superstar outside of Hughes/Kakko. 

Edited June 16, 2019 by Wheelchairsuperhero

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

If we draft another left handed forward, im going to lose it.  Looks like Cozens may not be around tho.

[krsmith17 7,191]

16 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

If we draft another left handed forward, im going to lose it.  Looks like Cozens may not be around tho.

I think one of Cozens or Dach will go top 5. I want Cozens. Dach, not so much. I'd prefer Zegras. I want to add more right-handed forwards as much as anyone, but not at the expense of the better player. Always BPA, especially this high in the draft.

[Dabura 12,207]