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2019 Draft

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29 minutes ago, greenrebellion said:

So the Yzerman love fest ended quicker then I expected!

You think? I think we're definitely still in the honeymoon phase. I can only imagine the firestorm that would have erupted from LW alone if Holland were still in charge. I'm a little surprised that there isn't more backlash directed at Tyler Wright and the scouts, and I have to assume the reason for it is they're being shielded by the aura of goodwill emanating from Yzerman. He could be in trouble if he makes any bad UFA signings though.

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20 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

After this draft I’m hardly excited about the 2020 draft anymore , only thing that can save us is a lottery pick as well as the fact that we drafted like 6-7 dmen so yzerman should stfu and stop exaggerating with drafting for need over best player available cause he certainly didn’t do that this year 

That's the spirit!

19 hours ago, The Datsyukian Deke said:

From what I read so far, mostly on german media in more detail, he wouldn't mind. Just keep working, keep improving, get to his goals. That's who he is.

Just to be clear, I was snarking on the WIIM crew. I'm sure Seider dgaf, nor should he.

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1 hour ago, greenrebellion said:

So the Yzerman love fest ended quicker then I expected!

There was never an Yzerman love fest from me, if that's who you're directing your comment toward.  I was vocally in the minority that I preferred Holland to Yzerman all day every day.  Though, from the looks of it our top pick this year wouldn't have been much different with Holland at the helm. 

 

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1 hour ago, greenrebellion said:

So the Yzerman love fest ended quicker then I expected!

I love yzerman doesn’t mean I’m gonna be a blind sheep and agree with every single move he’ll ever make , Don’t forget Wright and others were here before yzerman and they were at the draft table this weekend so outside of pick #6 I’m sure yzerman heavily relied on them .... check our recent draft history last 10 years and it’s nothing to write home about 

 

1 hour ago, HoweFan said:

Last year we drafted forwards when we should of maybe drafted another dman. This year it was the opposite. It worked out well last year and it will this year. Seider will be a big piece of our defense.  Seeing that I never went to Europe and did any scouting I will trust the guys that did. If it was me maybe I would have taken Robertson at 35 but that’s because of what I read not any real knowledge. I like this Tuo guy more every time I watch his videos and read the reports.  Hakan knows a little more than I do.  I’m fine with all of his choices

We had four solid dmen in 2017 and went for size in Rasmussen , we had opportunities 

its all nice to say hakan knows more than us but sadly he hasn’t produced anything really in 10 years , I’ll be the first one to come back here and happily say I was wrong if johansson becomes a first pair star dman , just with the recent history I’m not going to get too excited 

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Regarding Hakans resumee, to be fair, you have to say that our picks on average over the last 10-15 years might be about the highest in the league, which makes it harder to get results. It's not like, let's say the Pens, found guys like Crosby or Malkin in late rounds like we did with Z or Dats..

Most stars, franchise players or 1C, 1D, go early...and we haven't been picking there a lot..

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Just now, nyqvististhefuture said:

I love yzerman doesn’t mean I’m gonna be a blind sheep and agree with every single move he’ll ever make , Don’t forget Wright and others were here before yzerman and they were at the draft table this weekend so outside of pick #6 I’m sure yzerman heavily relied on them .... check our recent draft history last 10 years and it’s nothing to write home about

I'd be interested to know how much the whole switching organizations thing factored into his focus and preferences and choices. Like, he says he first saw Seider in December. Maybe at that point he'd already decided he'd be leaving for Detroit at the end of the season...but maybe he hadn't. (There's probably a definitive timeline out there, but I haven't looked into it.) Maybe he was looking at Seider through the lens of "We (Tampa) have a late 1st. This kid looks like he could be there when we make our pick." Maybe it's the same deal with some of our other picks. Maybe he'd been focusing on players that you'd expect a Cup contender's GM to be focusing in on, i.e. relatively under-the-radar guys. That could explain why at least a couple of the selections were "reaches."

Alternatively, maybe he deferred to the scouting team more than he otherwise would have because our scouts had been in "We're a bad team and we're picking early in every round" mode for some time.

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6 hours ago, wolfgang durst said:

EDM took Cozens & Broberg out for dinner at the combine. They  have never been in on  Seider.

Which may very well have been bc Holland knew Yzerman was gonna take Seider. Lets not forget these two men were basically scouting together the entire season.

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I'd be interested to know how much the whole switching organizations thing factored into his focus and preferences and choices. Like, he says he first saw Seider in December. Maybe at that point he'd already decided he'd be leaving for Detroit at the end of the season...but maybe he hadn't. (There's probably a definitive timeline out there, but I haven't looked into it.) Maybe he was looking at Seider through the lens of "We (Tampa) have a late 1st. This kid looks like he could be there when we make our pick." Maybe it's the same deal with some of our other picks. Maybe he'd been focusing on players that you'd expect a Cup contender's GM to be focusing in on, i.e. relatively under-the-radar guys. That could explain why at least a couple of the selections were "reaches."

Alternatively, maybe he deferred to the scouting team more than he otherwise would have because our scouts had been in "We're a bad team and we're picking early in every round" mode for some time.

Cant recall when he left Tampa and when he knew he was leaving  cause but If I’m yzerman and in Tampa and I’m thinking we’ll be 25-30 then Yes sure makes sense to follow a seider thinking you can trade up like 10 spots to get him , maybe he fell so love at that point with the player he’s like I don’t give A s*** I’m taking him and thats it ...rewatch when seider was selected Draper and Wright didn’t see too thrilled and if you keep it to the end I’d bet any internet money that , that smile on Draper was fake as f*** and if they both left for Edmonton I wouldn’t be shocked at all

 

i Think more for the other picks he relied on the scouts and hakan especially I don’t think he’d be watching for other prospects projected 50+  , maybe he knows Wright is leaving so he relied on hakan and I’m hoping with more picks this year he can find one guy who can be a stud dpair I’m just not counting on it happening ... I hope no problem with 5-7 rounds going for reaches and trying to hit a homerun from nowhere , that’s what we should always do not do it all draft imo , especially with 3 seconds 

anyways outside hakan I’m expecting yzerman to be bringing in some fresh guys for next season

 

 

 

 r

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1 hour ago, Buppy said:

You think? I think we're definitely still in the honeymoon phase. I can only imagine the firestorm that would have erupted from LW alone if Holland were still in charge. I'm a little surprised that there isn't more backlash directed at Tyler Wright and the scouts, and I have to assume the reason for it is they're being shielded by the aura of goodwill emanating from Yzerman. He could be in trouble if he makes any bad UFA signings though.

sorry to disappoint you, but I would've reacted very similar if Holland were still drafting here. As a matter of fact I even made reference to our picks asking if we're sure Holland isn't still drafting for us. You'll have to forgive me, but I'm not, as you say, bats*** crazy anymore and over the last year have come to realize there is way more to life than this. I try to enjoy Red Wings for sure, but there is so much more important things to get (or not get) upset over. Please, enjoy your day!

4 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Cant recall when he left Tampa and when he knew he was leaving  cause but If I’m yzerman and in Tampa and I’m thinking we’ll be 25-30 then Yes sure makes sense to follow a seider thinking you can trade up like 10 spots to get him , maybe he fell so love at that point with the player he’s like I don’t give A s*** I’m taking him and thats it ...rewatch when seider was selected Draper and Wright didn’t see too thrilled and if you keep it to the end I’d bet any internet money that , that smile on Draper was fake as f*** and if they both left for Edmonton I wouldn’t be shocked at all

 

i Think more for the other picks he relied on the scouts and hakan especially I don’t think he’d be watching for other prospects projected 50+  , maybe he knows Wright is leaving so he relied on hakan and I’m hoping with more picks this year he can find one guy who can be a stud dpair I’m just not counting on it happening ... I hope no problem with 5-7 rounds going for reaches and trying to hit a homerun from nowhere , that’s what we should always do not do it all draft imo , especially with 3 seconds 

anyways outside hakan I’m expecting yzerman to be bringing in some fresh guys for next season

 

 

 

 r

IMHO I believe Yzerman was scouting players for Detroit from the day he left Tampa. This was in the works way before March.

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22 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

sorry to disappoint you, but I would've reacted very similar if Holland were still drafting here. As a matter of fact I even made reference to our picks asking if we're sure Holland isn't still drafting for us. You'll have to forgive me, but I'm not, as you say, bats*** crazy anymore and over the last year have come to realize there is way more to life than this. I try to enjoy Red Wings for sure, but there is so much more important things to get (or not get) upset over. Please, enjoy your day!

IMHO I believe Yzerman was scouting players for Detroit from the day he left Tampa. This was in the works way before March.

He left in March? Well there ya go probably figured he’d be picking for Tampa when he started scouting seider and Tampa would pick him 

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7 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

If seider turns out to be a bottom 4 dman from the #6 pick considering what we left on the table I’d be hugely dissapointed , think he has the potential to be a really good #2 but I’m still gonna be hoping he turns into a #1 , just have my reservations just look back at all the nhl German d’s  And none were a star . Hopefully he’s the first 

I think seider and hronek can be a future d pair , also think cholowski is being forgotten , kid had a hot start to his career if he can ever be consistent he can turn into a 45-60 d guy we so desperately need and lack on this team which is why I was hoping for a matthew Robertson at 35

Pietrangelo was one of the best d’s for years , suddenly we’ve all forgotten it cause saint Louis struggled for 3 months ?

No... he's a solid star defender not in the elite 1d category.   

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6 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Our system can be thin on defense and we can try and fix it but I just don’t agree with the way we did it , everyone here knows how much I love podkolzin and how I think teams will look very stupid for passing on him but I also wanted to trade athanasiou although some fans wanted nothing to do with dealing him to move up and get seider so i got no problem getting seider just pissed we got him at 6 due to Holland’s wet dream of him so it is what it is 

I’d personally would have got Matthew Robertson over tuomisto who I see as a more offensive dman we could have used on a top Ppl some day ... is what it is , we’ll never know but if we liked Albert so much we could have grabbed him at 66 and with 54 and 60 I would have went for puistola and leason , maybe one day I’ll look like a f***en moron but that’s what I would have liked 

and no I’m not a head scout but those guys weren’t taken too far off from us so are those guys morons for taking them?and Albert grewe if we liked him so much maybe we could have dealt the Vegas 2021 3rd with a team to draft him

 

anyways it’s over now , we’ll see where these guys from the 2019 draft  are at in 2-4 years 

Both parties have to agree to have a deal... I'm sure they tried several trade back scenarios  likely even with the 6th pick, but it takes 2 to tango.  On some level you must realize this.

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1 hour ago, Dabura said:

I'd be interested to know how much the whole switching organizations thing factored into his focus and preferences and choices. Like, he says he first saw Seider in December. Maybe at that point he'd already decided he'd be leaving for Detroit at the end of the season...but maybe he hadn't. (There's probably a definitive timeline out there, but I haven't looked into it.) Maybe he was looking at Seider through the lens of "We (Tampa) have a late 1st. This kid looks like he could be there when we make our pick." Maybe it's the same deal with some of our other picks. Maybe he'd been focusing on players that you'd expect a Cup contender's GM to be focusing in on, i.e. relatively under-the-radar guys. That could explain why at least a couple of the selections were "reaches."

Alternatively, maybe he deferred to the scouting team more than he otherwise would have because our scouts had been in "We're a bad team and we're picking early in every round" mode for some time.

...On the other hand, I'm surprised that people are so suprised that an Yzerman draft haul would look like this.

Big defensemen who don't flash spectacular skill but are mostly smart and mobile and well-rounded and effective? Check out Tampa's D:

  • Cernak: 6'4
  • Coburn: 6'5
  • Foote: 6'4
  • Girardi: 6'1
  • Hedman: 6'6
  • McDonagh: 6'1
  • Rutta: 6'3
  • Sergachev: 6'3
  • Stralman 5'11

Slater Koekkoek was traded to Chicago in January, but he's an Yzerman pick. (2012, 10th overall. *cringe*) He's 6'2.

The aforementioned Erik Cernak was drafted 43rd overall by LA in the 2015 draft.

A couple of impressions of Cernak from 2015:

https://dobberprospects.com/player/erik-cernak/

Quote

June 2015 – Kings take Cernak 43rd overall. Zero fantasy value, but should re-evaluate in one to two years to see if any offense develops. Dobber

June 2015 – When you watch Erik Cernak you see a huge defensive defenseman who battles hard in front of his goalie and in the corner capable of using his size to outplay guys physically. Already playing in a men’s league in Slovakia, Cernak is playing with older players and contributing playing a regular shift in the top four D of his team while also playing on both the penalty kill and powerplay. The big man’s most impressive trait is his ability to not take penalties in his battles as in his 50 games at the top level of Slovak hockey in the 2014-2015 season and playoffs Cernak only took 22 penalty minutes. Benjamin Gallant

Sound familiar?

Now check out the latest report on that page:

Quote

April 2019 – Cernak finished his 2019 season as a key contributor in Tampa Bay’s lineup after receiving his first call-up from Syracuse in November. Cernak carved out a steady role on Tampa’s bottom two pairs and found time on the penalty kill as well, where he put his defensive skill-set to work as Tampa Bay only allowed four powerplay goals against during his 104:09 of ice time on the penalty kill. In addition to a flourishing defensive game, Cernak showed an improvement to his offensive abilities in 2019 as he was able to move the puck with great efficiency from the backend, as he posted five goals and 16 points in 58 regular seasons in addition to his three points in the postseason. With Tampa Bay’s impending cap crunch coming, Cernak figures to be a reliable component of the Bolts’ defensive core moving forward and may even see a consistent role in Tampa’s top four as early as the 2019-2020 season. Brandon Holmes

5 goals and 16 points in 58 regular season games as a 21-year-old rookie defenseman. 3 assists in 4 playoff games as a 21-year-old rookie defenseman.

And check out that characterization at the top of the page (not sure when it was written):

Quote

Cernak is a mobile, physically mature, and intelligent stay-at-home defender who has the raw skills to develop a well-balanced two-way game.

6'4...mobile...RH...physical maturity has never been an issue...smart player...not super flashy...projects as a solid two-way player...

200w.webp

Small hard-working forwards of the "Literally who?" variety? I'm sure I don't even need to name names, but I will:

  • Gourde (a centerman): 5'9
  • Johnson (a centerman): 5'8
  • Kucherov: 5'11 (178)
  • Point (a centerman): 5'10

Ethan Phillips, for example, has "Yzerman guy" written all over him...

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/305096/ethan-phillips

Quote

Defensively, he is a smart player who manages risk and reward and is an effective shut-down guy at his foundation

giphy.webp

So. Yzerman's history is the main reason why I'm inclined to believe him when he says he went BPA in this draft. I think he simply has strong personal preferences, a short list of specific things he always looks for...and this year those preferences led him to pick 2-4 players that most people would not have taken at those spots in the draft.

People wanna say Yzerman is the best GM in the league and then when he does Yzerman things it's all "WHAT IS HE DOING?!"

Edited by Dabura

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23 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I'd be interested to know how much the whole switching organizations thing factored into his focus and preferences and choices.

From what I've read, Seider was an Yzerman pick, and it's because he genuinely thinks the kid has very high potential. Objectively speaking, he took a 3rd-tier rated prospect with a 2nd-tier pick. Even if he's wrong it's not any big deal. At least a couple of the 2nd-tier guys are going to come up short as well.

Tuomisto was a Wright pick, and was a bigger reach. Worse given that he plays the same spot as Seider, and that there were still several picks with perceived 1st-round talent. We also already had Hronek, Bowey, Kaski, Lindstrom, plus Regula, Barton, and maybe Saarijarvi on the right side. I'd probably be OK with it if we'd taken Zegras or Cozens with our first.

No real reaches in the rest of the draft. I don't think there's much difference in who a top team would scout for 2nd/3rd round picks, as opposed to a bottom team. Probably a combination of info from both teams went into those picks. I would have been happier with Lavoie, Leason, and Legare in the 2nd, but no one knows if they'll actually be better.

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53 minutes ago, Dabura said:

...On the other hand, I'm surprised that people are so suprised that an Yzerman draft haul would look like this.

Big defensemen who don't flash spectacular skill but are mostly smart and mobile and well-rounded and effective? Check out Tampa's D:

  • Cernak: 6'4
  • Coburn: 6'5
  • Foote: 6'4
  • Girardi: 6'1
  • Hedman: 6'6
  • McDonagh: 6'1
  • Rutta: 6'3
  • Sergachev: 6'3
  • Stralman 5'11

Slater Koekkoek was traded to Chicago in January, but he's an Yzerman pick. (2012, 10th overall. *cringe*) He's 6'2.

The aforementioned Erik Cernak was drafted 43rd overall by LA in the 2015 draft.

A couple of impressions of Cernak from 2015:

https://dobberprospects.com/player/erik-cernak/

Sound familiar?

Now check out the latest report on that page:

5 goals and 16 points in 58 regular season games as a 21-year-old rookie defenseman. 3 assists in 4 playoff games as a 21-year-old rookie defenseman.

And check out that characterization at the top of the page (not sure when it was written):

6'4...mobile...RH...physical maturity has never been an issue...smart player...not super flashy...projects as a solid two-way player...

200w.webp

Outside of hedman that list of d drafted is write home about lol , makes more depressed now ... thanks haha 

29 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Will Seider be at development camp?

Yup after that they’ll decide where he goes 

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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3 minutes ago, amato said:

I believe when he got drafted, Seider said something along the lines of he'd go where ever the wings management decided he should. I hope he starts in Grand Rapids 

By the sounds of it I think this is a real possibility. He defiantly should either be in the AHL or DEL

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28 minutes ago, amato said:

I believe when he got drafted, Seider said something along the lines of he'd go where ever the wings management decided he should. I hope he starts in Grand Rapids 

Why would he say anything else? :D

If he handles it well, he benefits anyway. If he gets to the AHL earlier, he get's to learn the system earlier, might even get a call up at some point, learns how life goes in the US, is close to the big club. If he stays at home, he can finish school while still improving and preparing, as competition in a mens league already challenges an 18y old who needs to add to get to the level of his opponents.

Edited by The Datsyukian Deke

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