2019 Draft

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, Dabura said:

I know some Canadians who believe the US eclipsing Canada is an inevitability. And I guess it makes sense. There's way more people in the US. Hockey is always gaining new fans in the US. USA Hockey is going HAM on its "Hockey is for everyone" initiative and trying to remove or at least reduce the standard entry barriers that have, historically, helped keep hockey firmly in the "niche sport" category in the States (high costs, difficulty finding rinks, the perception that it's strictly a sport for white people, etc.)

tl;dr Canada: "THIS IS MY FINAL FORM!" USA: "THIS ISN"T EVEN MY FINAL FORM!"

The saddest part for Canada is the USA probably will eclipse them at some point in the future, and Football, Baseball, and Basketball will still be far ahead of hockey in the US.

Sorry Canada, we just got a f*** ton of warm bodies down here.

How are they combating high costs? I had great access to rinks growing up but my parents never wanted to fork over the dough for ice time and especially equipment. So I mostly had to learn on ponds and on hardknock suburban streets...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 minutes ago, Buppy said:

If we were to all post a list of the 10 best players in the NHL last year, the combined list could easily be 20-30 names. If we can't agree on how to judge players in the same league based on hindsight, how much should we be upset about some disagreement on how a bunch of 17/18 yo kids playing in many different leagues all over the world will turn out 5-6 years from now? Every guy we could have picked had someone who didn't think he should go that high, and all of Zegras, Cozens, Caufiled, and Boldy were ranked lower than Seider by at least one person.

Yes, it was a reach, but not a particularly big one. No big deal, no matter how it turns out.

This is why I trust and therefore defer to the experts/scouts. A reach is a reach based on what? Where Corey Pronman told you a guy should go? f*** Corey Pronman.

If Yzerman took Raphael Lavoie at #6 overall, my opinion would be damn this Lavoie kid must be a lot better than anyone realized. Not "Yzerman isn't folowing BPA! What a retard"

[Dabura 12,207]

5 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

How are they combating high costs? I had great access to rinks growing up but my parents never wanted to fork over the dough for ice time and especially equipment. So I mostly had to learn on ponds and on hardknock suburban streets...

I don't know how they're actually doing it, tbh. I guess I just trust that they are in fact doing it, or at least working hard on figuring out how to do it. I suppose I could be giving them too much credit, but they do at least seem to understand that growing hockey really starts at the ground level, i.e. appealing to really young kids and their families.

18 minutes ago, Buppy said:

If we were to all post a list of the 10 best players in the NHL last year, the combined list could easily be 20-30 names. If we can't agree on how to judge players in the same league based on hindsight, how much should we be upset about some disagreement on how a bunch of 17/18 yo kids playing in many different leagues all over the world will turn out 5-6 years from now? Every guy we could have picked had someone who didn't think he should go that high, and all of Zegras, Cozens, Caufiled, and Boldy were ranked lower than Seider by at least one person.

Yes, it was a reach, but not a particularly big one. No big deal, no matter how it turns out.

I'm willing to accept it was a reach by conventional standards. But I think those standards are dumb and outdated and I should be running every team's draft.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

10 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I don't know how they're actually doing it, tbh. I guess I just trust that they are in fact doing it, or at least working hard on figuring out how to do it. I suppose I could be giving them too much credit, but they do at least seem to understand that growing hockey really starts at the ground level, i.e. appealing to really young kids and their families.

I know the plan for expansion here in Seattle is not just to retrofit the KeyArena. There's also plans to add at least 5 more rinks around the city. Right now I live basically downtown and have to drive about 30 minutes outside of the city to get to the nearest rink.

I know they did this same plan when they expanded in Dallas. Build the rinks and they will come.

Equipment is just so expensive, especially for kids who outgrow it every year. A lot less pricey to just push your kid into basketball.

Edited June 24, 2019 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[The Datsyukian Deke 127]

7 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

The AHL is also a stronger league, albeit not by a huge margin, which would be better for his development. Not to mention playing on North American ice, and being right in the backyard of the big club, for better resources, training, eating, etc... Playing another year in the DEL wouldn't be the worst thing, but I personally hope he makes the jump to the AHL... I'd also be able to watch a lot more Grand Rapids games than Adler Mannheim, so there's also that...

Either way, really looking forward to see what the kid is all about in development camp this week!

WTF

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Me going into the first round of the draft with Zegras, Turcotte, and Caufield on the board

Me leaving the first round of the draft

[krsmith17 7,191]

I just don't understand the talk on Seider being a "reach". Based on what? Seider may have been a reach on other draft boards, but he clearly wasn't a "reach" to Yzerman, or at least one other general manager in the top 10.

Sure it's possible that Seider develops into a DeKeyser. Very unlikely in my opinion, but possible... It's also possible that Zegras develops into a Sam Bennett, or Cozens develops into a Jake Virtanen. None of these guys are a guarantee to become anything. I choose to believe that Yzerman has half a clue of what he's doing, and he truly did see something in this kid that few others seen.

I'll admit that I wanted Zegras or Cozens at 6, but I'm not going to pretend I know better than Yzerman or any of the scouts in the Red Wings organization. I'm happy with the pick, and it'll be interesting to see how it plays put.

10 minutes ago, The Datsyukian Deke said:

WTF

I'm confused about what you're WTFing about? Eating? Yes, professional athletes have very strict diets and most teams in the NHL have a team nutritionist. Lisa McDowell is the Red Wings nutritionist, and believe it or not, all of these kids take cooking classes and learn what foods they should and shouldn't be eating. It's actually a very important part of development camp, that starts tomorrow...

[TLGTrico 622]

The fact that Yzerman wanted to trade down before taking Seider tells me he was a reach for him too.

[The Datsyukian Deke 127]

Uhmm...you're seriously telling me athletes who made it to the NHL Draft and played in a mens system & in their national team, need nutrition advice? What?

You don't even get there if you don't do this right. Ok, maybe generational talent like Ovi or others in that tier might even make it overweight. But everybody else? I doubt it.

The main advantage for Seider would be that the whole system, facitilies, staff, coaches are a few classes above what he has here. But nutrition? I guess the times are over where you could get into pro leagues, while still having burgers & fries most of the time, or even smoking, as some professional soccer players in Europe still did in the 90s.

Today...well, I know a kid (son of a friend) who is in a development program for german youth soccer, scratching the under 16 national team. That kid is just 15 and doesnt need to know anything about food anymore.

And while soccer is the #1 sport here and most professional even down to juniors, I doubt any DEL team needs advice on that.

[Wings3:16 318]

I didn't care for the Seider pick at first but the more I read the more I'm satisfied. Mastrosimone seems like a good kid too. 2nd pick could have been better I think.

Edited June 24, 2019 by Wings3:16

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

33 minutes ago, TLGTrico said:

The fact that Yzerman wanted to trade down before taking Seider tells me he was a reach for him too.

I obviously missed that.

[krsmith17 7,191]

35 minutes ago, TLGTrico said:

The fact that Yzerman wanted to trade down before taking Seider tells me he was a reach for him too.

Yzerman wanted to trade down because he *thought* he might still be available at around 10, based on other rankings. He then found out that another team in the top 10 was in on him, so he didn't want to risk losing his guy, and took him at 6...

[krsmith17 7,191]

39 minutes ago, The Datsyukian Deke said:

Uhmm...you're seriously telling me athletes who made it to the NHL Draft and played in a mens system & in their national team, need nutrition advice? What?

You don't even get there if you don't do this right. Ok, maybe generational talent like Ovi or others in that tier might even make it overweight. But everybody else? I doubt it.

The main advantage for Seider would be that the whole system, facitilies, staff, coaches are a few classes above what he has here. But nutrition? I guess the times are over where you could get into pro leagues, while still having burgers & fries most of the time, or even smoking, as some professional soccer players in Europe still did in the 90s.

Today...well, I know a kid (son of a friend) who is in a development program for german youth soccer, scratching the under 16 national team. That kid is just 15 and doesnt need to know anything about food anymore.

And while soccer is the #1 sport here and most professional even down to juniors, I doubt any DEL team needs advice on that.

What's your argument here? I'm not going to speak on other sports, but professional hockey players do learn "how to eat" at a very young age, and it's a huge part of development camp, which goes along with "how to be a pro"... These athletes also know "how to train" to an extent, but none of these kids know everything there is to know about training, eating, even sleeping, etc...

[Buppy 1,720]

47 minutes ago, The Datsyukian Deke said:

Uhmm...you're seriously telling me athletes who made it to the NHL Draft and played in a mens system & in their national team, need nutrition advice? What?

You don't even get there if you don't do this right. Ok, maybe generational talent like Ovi or others in that tier might even make it overweight. But everybody else? I doubt it.

The main advantage for Seider would be that the whole system, facitilies, staff, coaches are a few classes above what he has here. But nutrition? I guess the times are over where you could get into pro leagues, while still having burgers & fries most of the time, or even smoking, as some professional soccer players in Europe still did in the 90s.

Today...well, I know a kid (son of a friend) who is in a development program for german youth soccer, scratching the under 16 national team. That kid is just 15 and doesnt need to know anything about food anymore.

And while soccer is the #1 sport here and most professional even down to juniors, I doubt any DEL team needs advice on that.

Don't forget these are still young kids, some still growing, and leading very active, athletic lifestyles. I've eaten pretty much nothing but junk food my whole life,  never been that in to exercise, and I didn't start getting fat until my 40s. The idea of a young hockey player being 6'1" 165 on a diet of pizza and hot pockets isn't too far-fetched. 

[The Datsyukian Deke 127]

Ok, let's agree to every additional 5% you can get, from different methods, inputs, styles and approaches, will help you improve. And it doesnt matter where you get it from.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

1 hour ago, TLGTrico said:

The fact that Yzerman wanted to trade down before taking Seider tells me he was a reach for him too.

TLG, KRS will never eat his crow.  We draft the top RH defenseman after missing out on Karlsson and Trouba 10 picks ahead of his expected draft position, and KRS is trying to convince us he was the BPA.  I explain why Yzerman cant come out and directly say that there were forwards available that were better players, but KRS wont listen.  His way, or the highway.

[krsmith17 7,191]

15 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

TLG, KRS will never eat his crow.  We draft the top RH defenseman after missing out on Karlsson and Trouba 10 picks ahead of his expected draft position, and KRS is trying to convince us he was the BPA.  I explain why Yzerman cant come out and directly say that there were forwards available that were better players, but KRS wont listen.  His way, or the highway.

You're so dumb.

It's even more funny now that you think the Seider pick had anything at all to do with "missing out on Karlsson and Trouba" (Yzerman may or may not have ever been in on either)...

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I also never once said that Seider was the BPA. I said that I believe that Seider was the BPA in the eyes of Yzerman and / or the scouts. You can choose to believe whatever you want, but I have a hard time believing that Yzerman knowingly decided to pass on the better player, and "reach" for Seider. But hey, you do you...

[Buppy 1,720]

6 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

TLG, KRS will never eat his crow.  We draft the top RH defenseman after missing out on Karlsson and Trouba 10 picks ahead of his expected draft position, and KRS is trying to convince us he was the BPA.  I explain why Yzerman cant come out and directly say that there were forwards available that were better players, but KRS wont listen.  His way, or the highway.

"Reach" just means he went against the prevailing opinion. Since he would obviously know that prevailing opinion, he would obviously understand that he might be able to trade back and still get his guy. That does not in any way suggest that he didn't believe Seider was the BPA.

Aside from that, it's only your opinion that RHD was our biggest need. Objectively, our biggest need is probably G, so Knight should have been his choice. Or if we're differentiating based on handedness, a right shot winger, so he should have gone Caufiled or Cozens (plus numerous options in the later rounds). If looking at defense, it's our left side if any that was weaker going in to the draft, though even if you just generalize all D, Broberg was generally ranked higher, so he should have been the choice. And finally, even though we have Larkin, C is not exactly an area of strength. Really the only thing we didn't need was left shot wingers. We drafted four.

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 minutes ago, Buppy said:

"Reach" just means he went against the prevailing opinion. Since he would obviously know that prevailing opinion, he would obviously understand that he might be able to trade back and still get his guy. That does not in any way suggest that he didn't believe Seider was the BPA.

Aside from that, it's only your opinion that RHD was our biggest need. Objectively, our biggest need is probably G, so Knight should have been his choice. Or if we're differentiating based on handedness, a right shot winger, so he should have gone Caufiled or Cozens (plus numerous options in the later rounds). If looking at defense, it's our left side if any that was weaker going in to the draft, though even if you just generalize all D, Broberg was generally ranked higher, so he should have been the choice. And finally, even though we have Larkin, C is not exactly an area of strength. Really the only thing we didn't need was left shot wingers. We drafted four.

THIS! All you doofuses that keep claiming that Yzerman "reached for Seider"... please read this ^ ...

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

I think it’s quite obvious by our weak prospect pool at d that we did in fact target more need over bpa , and no I’m not mad about seider pick ,just think when they feed the media the it was the bpa on our list stuff they might love the kid but I don’t know If I’d believe that some picks were the best players on their lists , might have had 3-4 forwards on the list and then a dman they picked and think well the difference isn’t that much off in our eyes , Let’s take the d 

I firmly believe we went into this draft with the sole purpose to fill our cupboard up with dmen, that’s fine it’s something that had to be done with our past track record I just personally don’t see anyone outside seider with star upside  from this draft , sure grewe can be a nice player but likely a 3rd liner and so on , but we’ll see what happens 

 

and on a side note , from here, other boards, twitter a lot of people seem to be excited about these d prospects as if there all locks to make the future roster with hronek,cholowski,mcisaac And it seems that everyone’s forgotten about 6’4 Alec regula who I still consider a pretty good prospect on our team and who should get a ton more responsibilities with London next season and that only means good things for his future and the wings 

Edited June 25, 2019 by nyqvististhefuture

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

34 minutes ago, Buppy said:

Don't forget these are still young kids, some still growing, and leading very active, athletic lifestyles. I've eaten pretty much nothing but junk food my whole life,  never been that in to exercise, and I didn't start getting fat until my 40s. The idea of a young hockey player being 6'1" 165 on a diet of pizza and hot pockets isn't too far-fetched. 

When I was 17/18 I could eat a whole large pizza to myself after practice and not gain a pound. Now I can't physically put down a full pizza anymore, and boy do I miss it.

[krsmith17 7,191]

10 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

I think it’s quite obvious by our weak prospect pool at d that we did in fact target more need over bpa , and no I’m not mad about seider pick ,just think when they feed the media the it was the bpa on our list stuff they might love the kid but I don’t know If I’d believe that some picks were the best players on their lists , might have had 3-4 forwards on the list and then a dman they picked and think well the difference isn’t that much off in our eyes , Let’s take the d 

I firmly believe we went into this draft with the sole purpose to fill our cupboard up with dmen, that’s fine it’s something that had to be done with our past track record I just personally don’t see anyone outside seider with star upside  from this draft , sure grewe can be a nice player but likely a 3rd liner and so on , but we’ll see what happens 

and on a side note , from here, other boards, twitter a lot of people seem to be excited about these d prospects as if there all locks to make the future roster with hronek,cholowski,mcisaac And it seems that everyone’s forgotten about 6’4 Alec regula who I still consider a pretty good prospect on our team and who should get a ton more responsibilities with London next season and that only means good things for his future and the wings 

Did you see "star upside" three years, two days after we drafted Cholowski and Hronek? I doubt it... Most Red Wings fans were pretty meh on those picks three years ago, and yet most Red Wings fans are pretty high on those picks today. "Top 4 potential".

Point is, it's very difficult to gauge where any of these players will be in their development a year from now, let alone 3-5 years from now. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

He's kinda got that creepy "felt cute, might invade Poland later" German smile

Strong Jaw, add that to the list of things I like about him

Don't normally like bow ties, but somehow it seems to work with a hockey jersey

Meme potential image

Have we talked about how the Germans have underrated Jerseys yet?

Winning the German league cup

This one is from the future as he walks to accept the 2020 Norris Trophy

I figure if I humanize him enough everyone will have to love him

7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Did you see "star upside" three years, two days after we drafted Cholowski and Hronek? I doubt it... Most Red Wings fans were pretty meh on those picks three years ago, and yet most Red Wings fans are pretty high on those picks today. "Top 4 potential".

Point is, it's very difficult to gauge where any of these players will be in their development a year from now, let alone 3-5 years from now. 

> Swap Chychrun for Cholowski and afterthought Hronek
> Booo Chychrun is better than Cholowski!
> Afterthought Hronek turns out better than both
> Prospects are chaos

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

48 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

I think it’s quite obvious by our weak prospect pool at d that we did in fact target more need over bpa , and no I’m not mad about seider pick ,just think when they feed the media the it was the bpa on our list stuff they might love the kid but I don’t know If I’d believe that some picks were the best players on their lists , might have had 3-4 forwards on the list and then a dman they picked and think well the difference isn’t that much off in our eyes , Let’s take the d 

I firmly believe we went into this draft with the sole purpose to fill our cupboard up with dmen, that’s fine it’s something that had to be done with our past track record I just personally don’t see anyone outside seider with star upside  from this draft , sure grewe can be a nice player but likely a 3rd liner and so on , but we’ll see what happens 

 

and on a side note , from here, other boards, twitter a lot of people seem to be excited about these d prospects as if there all locks to make the future roster with hronek,cholowski,mcisaac And it seems that everyone’s forgotten about 6’4 Alec regula who I still consider a pretty good prospect on our team and who should get a ton more responsibilities with London next season and that only means good things for his future and the wings 

This.  Its so obvious.  

[Buppy 1,720]

1 hour ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

I think it’s quite obvious by our weak prospect pool at d that we did in fact target more need over bpa , and no I’m not mad about seider pick ,just think when they feed the media the it was the bpa on our list stuff they might love the kid but I don’t know If I’d believe that some picks were the best players on their lists , might have had 3-4 forwards on the list and then a dman they picked and think well the difference isn’t that much off in our eyes , Let’s take the d ...

So....you're argument is that it's probable that they ranked some defensemen only slightly lower than some forwards, but completely unbelievable that they might have ranked those same defensemen slightly above those same forwards?

Leaving aside that our D is not necessarily the weakest part of our prospect pool, you also have to consider that there were several big, mobile, two-way D available, and ranked higher than Tuomisto. There was clearly something specific about him as an individual that led to that pick.