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Jonas Mahonas

Is Hughes > or = to Gudreau

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I just looked up Dobson's 2018-19 stats line. 9 goals and 16 points in 28 games played. Not all that impressive.

Veleno? 23 goals and 58 points in 30 games played.

Just some food for thought, is all.

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5 hours ago, mackel said:

I made no prediction about Walstrom... please don't make assumptions on my behalf.   I did say I'd rather have those 2 players...  a forward that may pan out, and a defenceman that looks to be on track.

I'm not assuming, I'm reaching a logical conclusion based on your words. Regardless, you just said "he may pan out" so that solves that. 

How is it that he may pan out but Zadina's a bust? Wahlstrom's numbers are pretty bad. To be clear I like Wahlstrom, still, and I'm also still not yet worried about Zadina. But boy do I smell a double standard here. 

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11 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

There isn't one NHL GM who wouldnt have taken Zadina at 6. Any GM sitting at 11 and 12 would have taken Dobson and Wahlstrom.

Agreed, unless you personally scouted him and saw something everything else didn't, criticizing the Zadina pick in hindsight (which is way to soon anyways) is being irrational. He likely would have been taken 3, 4, or 5 by most teams. We essentially got the 3rd pick with #6.

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14 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

There isn't one NHL GM who wouldnt have taken Zadina at 6. Any GM sitting at 11 and 12 would have taken Dobson and Wahlstrom.

What would have made him such a better pick than Bouchard?

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5 hours ago, toby91_ca said:

What would have made him such a better pick than Bouchard?

Too soon to tell. Bouchard would have been a good pick too. And assuming Zadina was gone by #6, I would have been perfectly content with Bouchard there (although I believe Holland would have gone Hughes instead). But when I saw Arizona take Hayton, I immediately thought that Holland has to take Zadina (BPA at that point in every mock draft I saw). There were some good young D available there, but I believe that any other GM in the same spot would have also taken Zadina

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On 1/4/2019 at 7:36 PM, mackel said:

Hopefully we avoid another 1st bust...

#Zadina 

 

On 1/6/2019 at 1:10 PM, mackel said:

I'd love to be wrong... but his play validates what I've seem of him in Junior and his drop in the draft.  At best I think he'll be a regular with a few good years... IE Vanek.  At worst it'll be another tale of a first round nothing.  Time will tell.  But I'm confident in my assessment.  I'd far rather be the Isles who drafted Walstrom and Dobson. 

 

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6 hours ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

I'm confused by your question. What makes any player a better pick than any other player?

The comment was "There isn't one NHL GM who wouldnt have taken Zadina at 6"  Zadina and Bouchard were available at #6, so my question was pretty basic.....what makes it so obvious to pick Zadina over Bouchard?  Must be obvious if there isn't a single GM that wouldn't have taken Bouchard over Zadina. 

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4 minutes ago, toby91_ca said:

The comment was "There isn't one NHL GM who wouldnt have taken Zadina at 6"  Zadina and Bouchard were available at #6, so my question was pretty basic.....what makes it so obvious to pick Zadina over Bouchard?  Must be obvious if there isn't a single GM that wouldn't have taken Bouchard over Zadina. 

I would not have taken Zadina.

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11 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I would not have taken Zadina.

That was my point, not saying it was a bad pick, most picks are shots in the dark....my issue was with the suggestion that every single GM would have taken him with that pick.  Not sure that statement makes sense at all.

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1 hour ago, toby91_ca said:

That was my point, not saying it was a bad pick, most picks are shots in the dark....my issue was with the suggestion that every single GM would have taken him with that pick.  Not sure that statement makes sense at all.

Whats so difficult to understand? Zadina was a top 3 or 4 draft pick in just about every mock draft. Bouchard wasnt. Zadina was considered the 2nd best scorer in the draft behind Svechnikov. Bouchard was a good D prospect among several others (Boqvist, Hughes, and Dobson). He wasnt even the first one picked out of that group. So I guess someone could have taken him at 6 over Zadina, but based on projections made by people who know a lot more about these players than you or me,  taking Bouchard over Zadina is what would have made less sense.

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5 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I would not have taken Zadina.

Disagree.

On 6/15/2018 at 8:34 AM, Jonas Mahonas said:

No one knew Yzerman was going to be Yzerman.  Minnesota and Hartford would probably like to rechoose if given the chance.  I'm not comparing Zadina to Yzerman. I'm illustrating that a number 3 selection has a much greater chance of having a higher ceiling and reaching it than the guys we would be giving up in that trade scenario.  I don't like giving up Mantha and 3 good prospects.  But getting a legit first line winger is important.  All signs are pointing to Zadina being just that.

You wanted to trade up in the draft and ensure we got him.

Y'all are ridiculous

 

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6 hours ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

Disagree.

You wanted to trade up in the draft and ensure we got him.

Y'all are ridiculous

 

Well, you got me there.  Let me rephrase - I would have wondered very hard why 3 teams passed on him and strongly considered doing the same.

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10 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Well, you got me there.  Let me rephrase - I would have wondered very hard why 3 teams passed on him and strongly considered doing the same.

The Wings would have likely taken Zadina if they won that 3rd pick in the lottery. Why would you pass on the player you want just because other GM's passed on him? Don't overthink it. Trust your scouting staff and take your guy.

Should we have passed on Veleno too because about 15 teams passed on him? What about McIsaac because about 10 teams passed on him?...

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1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I would have wondered very hard why 3 teams passed on him and strongly considered doing the same.

Why do people talk about Zadina going 6th overall like it was this massive slide that *really makes you think*? Guy went 6th overall, not 40th.

  • Kotkaniemi was a late riser. The Habs badly needed a high-end centerman. Pretty easy decision for them.
  • Tkachuk was right there in the top 5 mix for a lot of people for the whole year. Him going a spot or two before Zadina wasn't surprising.
  • The Coyotes reached for Hayton because they like him a lot.

To be fair, Zadina didn't help his cause with his weak performance in the QMJHL playoffs and, from what I've heard, his underwhelming fitness testing results. If he leads the Mooseheads on a deep postseason run and/or he performs better in the fitness testing, maybe he isn't available at 6th overall.

In any case, taking Zadina when we did was a good call. Let's pump the brakes on the "Zadina's a bust" anti-HYPE!

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12 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Why do people talk about Zadina going 6th overall like it was this massive slide that *really makes you think*? Guy went 6th overall, not 40th.

  • Kotkaniemi was a late riser. The Habs badly needed a high-end centerman. Pretty easy decision for them.
  • Tkachuk was right there in the top 5 mix for a lot of people for the whole year. Him going a spot or two before Zadina wasn't surprising.
  • The Coyotes reached for Hayton because they like him a lot.

To be fair, Zadina didn't help his cause with his weak performance in the QMJHL playoffs and, from what I've heard, his underwhelming fitness testing results. If he leads the Mooseheads on a deep postseason run and/or he performs better in the fitness testing, maybe he isn't available at 6th overall.

In any case, taking Zadina when we did was a good call. Let's pump the brakes on the "Zadina's a bust" anti-HYPE!

Correction: just looked it up -- he put up 12 points in 9 playoff games with the Mooseheads. For some reason I had it in my head that he disappointed in those playoffs. I didn't watch, but, judging by those numbers, I'm guessing he wasn't part of the problem for the Mooseheads.

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On 1/7/2019 at 12:22 AM, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

I'm not assuming, I'm reaching a logical conclusion based on your words. Regardless, you just said "he may pan out" so that solves that. 

How is it that he may pan out but Zadina's a bust? Wahlstrom's numbers are pretty bad. To be clear I like Wahlstrom, still, and I'm also still not yet worried about Zadina. But boy do I smell a double standard here. 

Zadina was supposed to have a higher ceiling...

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I'd like to think that after 2 or 3 more drafts that Zadina will be this team's 4th or 5th best prospect/U25 roster player. 

Putting this much pressure/expectation on a 19 year old scoring winger this early in their career is the type of irrational thought that only comes from a fan of a team who hasn't drafted in the top 6 since Keith Primeau in 19effingNINTEY(!) (or a Leafs fan on a Tuesday)

Wait until this team picks in the top 5 in each of the next few seasons and start adding #1 centers and top pairing D type prospects. Then we can all see Zadina for what he truly is. A 30 goal scorer on a good team adjacent to a good play-making center, and just one piece of a much larger, wining, puzzle. 

 

1 hour ago, mackel said:

Zadina was supposed to have a higher ceiling...

and he still does. So, point? 

Edited by The 91 of Ryans

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6 minutes ago, mackel said:

Zadina was supposed to have a higher ceiling...

Or "is" supposed to have a higher ceiling, so expectations are higher.  Probably not a good excuse either way for a clear bias, but talking about ceiling as if it's in the past is a bit weird when we are talking about 18 year olds...well, I guess Zadina just turned 19.

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1 hour ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I'd like to think that after 2 or 3 more drafts that Zadina will be this team's 4th or 5th best prospect/U25 roster player. 

Putting this much pressure/expectation on a 19 year old scoring winger this early in their career is the type of irrational thought that only comes from a fan of a team who hasn't drafted in the top 6 since Keith Primeau in 19effingNINTEY(!) (or a Leafs fan on a Tuesday)

Wait until this team picks in the top 5 in each of the next few seasons and start adding #1 centers and top pairing D type prospects. Then we can all see Zadina for what he truly is. A 30 goal scorer on a good team opposite a good play-making center, and just one piece of a much larger, wining, puzzle. 

 

and he still does. So, point? 

God please be reading this post and make the bolded happen.....your tried and true Wings fans have suffered enough missing playoffs for 3 years in a row. 

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19 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Zadina will make the team next year.  The fact that he's playing in the AHL this year is a GOOD sign.  Just needs more muscles.

From what I saw, with my own eyes of him in the Q, his game needs a makeover.  In that league if you're a top tier athlete you can cheat a lot and be bailed out by your athleticism, that's what I saw with Zadina.  A guy who was always waiting for somone to get the puck for him and send him on a break out... that may change and I may end up being totally wrong.  But players don't often back away from whats got them this far.

This was the draft to have traded down, I doubt if the Islanders had the option and knew the names of the draftees they would have made that deal.

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19 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Zadina will make the team next year.  The fact that he's playing in the AHL this year is a GOOD sign.  Just needs more muscles.

I'm not sure how good of a sign it is that he's in the AHL.  I don't think it means much at all in terms of ability.  The limited number of 18/19/20 year olds playing in the AHL isn't because of a lack of enough skill, it's because of the CHL / NHL agreement.  If a player is drafted by the NHL, but doesn't make the team right away, the agreement keeps the players from being able to play in the AHL....otherwise, the CHL would be stripped of a lot of it's players.

I don't know the full details, but I thought the player needed to turn 20 before 12/31 of that year....so perhaps it's turning 20 in the year in which the season ends (2019) and not turning 20 before 12/31/18 for Zadina as he won't turn 20 until later this year.  Or, there are other exceptions for European players based on their European experience prior to joining CHL.  I think the only exception though is a European player that is drafted in the NHL before playing in the CHL (not the case for Zadina).

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22 minutes ago, toby91_ca said:

I'm not sure how good of a sign it is that he's in the AHL.  I don't think it means much at all in terms of ability.  The limited number of 18/19/20 year olds playing in the AHL isn't because of a lack of enough skill, it's because of the CHL / NHL agreement.  If a player is drafted by the NHL, but doesn't make the team right away, the agreement keeps the players from being able to play in the AHL....otherwise, the CHL would be stripped of a lot of it's players.

I don't know the full details, but I thought the player needed to turn 20 before 12/31 of that year....so perhaps it's turning 20 in the year in which the season ends (2019) and not turning 20 before 12/31/18 for Zadina as he won't turn 20 until later this year.  Or, there are other exceptions for European players based on their European experience prior to joining CHL.  I think the only exception though is a European player that is drafted in the NHL before playing in the CHL (not the case for Zadina).

Zadina technically wasn't drafted out of the CHL because he was "on loan" to Halifax from Pardubice of the Czech league. Because he wasn't official property of the Mooseheads at the time of the draft, he was AHL eligible.

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