Your Favorite Defenseman 2 Years From Now

[krsmith17 7,191]

9 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Umm no. If there was a roster logjam Hronek would be in GR, not scratched, which is where he'll probably be when Daley comes back. I am ok with him getting 20 minutes a night in the AHL. He's still developing. Bring him up full time next year. Keep him in GR for the playoffs, assuming the Griffins get in.

Umm what? You don't think there's a logjam on defense right now? I strongly disagree there. In my opinion, Hronek has earned a spot on the roster over several other players. You disagree, which is fine. I just think Hronek's positive impact on the games have far outweighed any negatives. No, his defense hasn't been perfect, but it hasn't been particularly bad either. Like I mentioned before, Ericsson has been the direct cause of at least two goals against when they were on the ice together.

I think he should be playing in Detroit, but if he's sent down again, that would be better than him sitting in the pressbox for weeks.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Umm what? You don't think there's a logjam on defense right now? I strongly disagree there. In my opinion, Hronek has earned a spot on the roster over several other players. You disagree, which is fine. I just think Hronek's positive impact on the games have far outweighed any negatives. No, his defense hasn't been perfect, but it hasn't been particularly bad either. Like I mentioned before, Ericsson has been the direct cause of at least two goals against when they were on the ice together.

I think he should be playing in Detroit, but if he's sent down again, that would be better than him sitting in the pressbox for weeks.

No. I was saying that a logjam isnt why he was scratched. If hes on the big roster but isnt playing, thats not a log jam. Theres room for him but Blash isnt playing him when he could be . If there was a true logjam at D he wouldnt be on the roster at all. He would be in GR.

[krsmith17 7,191]

24 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

No. I was saying that a logjam isnt why he was scratched. If hes on the big roster but isnt playing, thats not a log jam. Theres room for him but Blash isnt playing him when he could be . If there was a true logjam at D he wouldnt be on the roster at all. He would be in GR.

Gotcha. 

[wings4thecup06 504]

17 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Umm what? You don't think there's a logjam on defense right now? I strongly disagree there. In my opinion, Hronek has earned a spot on the roster over several other players. You disagree, which is fine. I just think Hronek's positive impact on the games have far outweighed any negatives. No, his defense hasn't been perfect, but it hasn't been particularly bad either. Like I mentioned before, Ericsson has been the direct cause of at least two goals against when they were on the ice together.

I think he should be playing in Detroit, but if he's sent down again, that would be better than him sitting in the pressbox for weeks.

Couldn't agree more, and it really wound me up when Blashill scratched him when DK came back and kept Ericsson in the lineup. 'We don't change a winning lineup unless someone comes back from injury'. Just watch as Hronek is another scratch again tonight against the canucks. 

This team has been crying out for puck moving defensemen for years since Lidstrom left. Look at why we're better with Green in the lineup. He's horrendous in his own zone but moves the puck well - as does Hronek and Cholo. 

The guy was a PPG player in GR, so why send him down? Why bench him too when he's proven he belongs here, has clearly improved since his first call up at the start of the year, and oh yea, we're rebuilding. Not like we need Ericsson in the lineup to do what exactly? Help us win? Really? 

It sends the wrong message if you ask me to a young player trying to break into the lineup of a bad team. What more does he have to do? What do we have to lose by putting him and cholo in for the rest of the season, and scratching Daley (when he comes back) and Ericsson? Are the latter two guys gonna be around/core players when this team does become competitive again and starts competing for playoff spots? Of course not!!! So let the young guys learn how to make mistakes now, so they don't make them in 2/3 years time when we need them not to. 

But again, if you're going to scratch him, why not just be done with it and send him to GR instead of letting him waste his youth in the press box wondering why the f*** he can't break the lineup for some cagey, one legged defensemen. Oh wait. Accountability. Yea, there isn't any. There's a reason this team is in the damn basement of the league and it's old school attitudes like this. 

[kipwinger 7,587]

I'm probably in the minority here, but I actually think Blashill does a pretty good job managing the young guys.  Say what you want about his coaching, which I'm not really smart enough to dissect, but basically every young guy who was supposed to develop under Blashill did so.  Larkin turned into a top center, Mantha and AA are high quality wingers, Bert is good, Cholo and Hronek look promising, and Rasmussen looks decent.  I don't really see that he's mismanaged anyone.  Look at Babcock's handling of Smith, Jurco, Kindl, Sheahan, and Pulkkinen.  We all know they suck now, but at one time those guys were our top end prospects and they were regular scratches as well. So not much is different. If we were in a playoff hunt I'd want them in the lineup each night.  But we aren't, so scratching them isn't hurting anything.  They're missing an odd game here or there.  It's not like Blash is making Hronek into Witkowski or anything.

Edited January 21, 2019 by kipwinger

[kickazz 5,459]

4 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I'm probably in the minority here, but I actually think Blashill does a pretty good job managing the young guys.  Say what you want about his coaching, which I'm not really smart enough to dissect, but basically every young guy who was supposed to develop under Blashill did so.  Larkin turned into a top center, Mantha and AA are high quality wingers, Bert is good, Cholo and Hronek look promising, and Rasmussen looks decent.  I don't really see that he's mismanaged anyone.  Look at Babcock's handling of Smith, Jurco, Kindl, Sheahan, and Pulkkinen.  We all know they suck now, but at one time those guys were our top end prospects and they were regular scratches as well. So not much is different. If we were in a playoff hunt I'd want them in the lineup each night.  But we aren't, so scratching them isn't hurting anything.  They're missing an odd game here or there.  It's not like Blash is making Hronek into Witkowski or anything.

Babcock developed Lebda 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

12 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I'm probably in the minority here, but I actually think Blashill does a pretty good job managing the young guys.  Say what you want about his coaching, which I'm not really smart enough to dissect, but basically every young guy who was supposed to develop under Blashill did so.  Larkin turned into a top center, Mantha and AA are high quality wingers, Bert is good, Cholo and Hronek look promising, and Rasmussen looks decent.  I don't really see that he's mismanaged anyone.  Look at Babcock's handling of Smith, Jurco, Kindl, Sheahan, and Pulkkinen.  We all know they suck now, but at one time those guys were our top end prospects and they were regular scratches as well. So not much is different. If we were in a playoff hunt I'd want them in the lineup each night.  But we aren't, so scratching them isn't hurting anything.  They're missing an odd game here or there.  It's not like Blash is making Hronek into Witkowski or anything.

How can Blashill be good at developing players when hes not giving the kids the ice time they clearly deserve?

[puckbags 863]

4 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

How can Blashill be good at developing players when hes not giving the kids the ice time they clearly deserve?

Exactly. We are bad, we aren't going anywhere. It's time to let Hronek and Cholo play as much as possible. Problem is we are in salary cap purgatory and there is no where for some of these guys to go. DK, Ericsson and Jensen are just taking up space but no one is taking on E or DK's contract. 

[Dabura 11,951]

22 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I'm probably in the minority here, but I actually think Blashill does a pretty good job managing the young guys.  Say what you want about his coaching, which I'm not really smart enough to dissect, but basically every young guy who was supposed to develop under Blashill did so.  Larkin turned into a top center, Mantha and AA are high quality wingers, Bert is good, Cholo and Hronek look promising, and Rasmussen looks decent.  I don't really see that he's mismanaged anyone.

Agreed.

I've done a pretty hard 180 on this matter, going from complaining about the way Blashill is managing the kids to supporting and defending most of his decisions on that front. What changed? I realized we're seeing mostly positive results with our key young players. I realized every single team's fan base has people who complain that their coach is ruining their young talent. I realized those people tend to look like babies and I'd rather not look like a baby.

While people are gnashing their teeth over the Cholowski scratch, they are, at the same time, ignoring that Blashill 1) put Cholowski -- a 20-year-old defenseman with no AHL exerience -- on the opening night roster, 2) gave Cholowski tons of minutes early on, 3) has continued to allow Cholowski to run his own power play unit, and 4) waited until more than halfway into the season to give Cholowski a night off. If you look at Cholowski's numbers -- basic stats and underlying metrics -- and if you've been watching him closely, it's pretty much impossible to not see that the kid has been struggling just to keep his head above water. He put up points early and often but has cooled off considerably, so much so that he's not showing up on the score sheet anymore.

Hard truth: Cholowski is a major work in progress on the defensive side of the puck, and if he's not materially helping our offense, he's basically a liability. If anything, I'd say the fact that it took Blashill this long to healthy-scratch him could be viewed as mismanagement. Again, the kid has clearly been struggling (which is to be expected). I'm sure teams are identifying him as an exploitable weak point in our lineup and I'm sure they're compiling tape on him. With the losses piling up and Cholowski doing us no favors in those losses, why aren't any of the people who claim to be concerned about the kid's self-confidence and mental wellness discussing this angle? What if he feels overwhelmed? What if he's treading water and the best thing you can do for him is give him a break? Will Winging It In Motown's hot-take column address this possibility? Probably not. Because "Dumb coach man was mean to cherubic wonderkid and this is why dumb coach man must go. Apologize right now, Blashill!"

Maybe it was a dick move to not let Cholowski play in Vancouver, but I think it was the right call. He can pout about it or he can be a professional and find a way to make it work for him.

/rant

Edited January 22, 2019 by Dabura

[kipwinger 7,587]

12 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

How can Blashill be good at developing players when hes not giving the kids the ice time they clearly deserve?

All of our best players are "kids" and they all developed under Blashill.  So he's pretty obviously doing a decent job with their long term development.  I suppose if you think that scratching Hronek or Cholo occasionally is somehow detrimental to their long term development then I'm not sure what to tell you...except that even Datsyuk and Zetterberg were healthy scratched as rookies.  It's really not the end of the world. 

[The 91 of Ryans 2,525]

So Cholowski isn't going to be a Calder finalist? 

 

[kickazz 5,459]

8 hours ago, kipwinger said:

.except that even Datsyuk and Zetterberg were healthy scratched as rookies.  It's really not the end of the world. 

Z was a healthy scratch rookie year? That’s news to me. 

[Dabura 11,951]

8 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

So Cholowski isn't going to be a Calder finalist?

Vezina, imho

[kipwinger 7,587]

2 hours ago, kickazz said:

Z was a healthy scratch rookie year? That’s news to me. 

I think it was actually his second year now that I think about it.  I'm looking for the article I read now.  It was mentioned by the Free Press in an article in the last few years, but the long and short of it is that even our resident superstars were healthy scratched early in their careers. 

[toby91_ca 620]

30 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I think it was actually his second year now that I think about it.  I'm looking for the article I read now.  It was mentioned by the Free Press in an article in the last few years, but the long and short of it is that even our resident superstars were healthy scratched early in their careers. 

Not so sure about that.  He missed 3 games in his rookie season with the flu....played all other 79 games.  In 2nd season, he missed 21 games with a broken leg....played all other 61.

[kipwinger 7,587]

1 minute ago, toby91_ca said:

Not so sure about that.  He missed 3 games in his rookie season with the flu....played all other 79 games.  In 2nd season, he missed 21 games with a broken leg....played all other 61.

Yeah, I swear I read this article within the last couple of years but can't find it so there's a good chance I'm wrong about this.  I'll keep looking, but safe to say he wasn't ever healthy scratched until proven otherwise.

[toby91_ca 620]

3 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Yeah, I swear I read this article within the last couple of years but can't find it so there's a good chance I'm wrong about this.  I'll keep looking, but safe to say he wasn't ever healthy scratched until proven otherwise.

It's likely something you'd have a very difficult timing finding evidence of, even if it was true.

[kipwinger 7,587]

1 minute ago, toby91_ca said:

It's likely something you'd have a very difficult timing finding evidence of, even if it was true.

Well the only record is from the actual game report for each individual game, and there's no way I'm combing through all of those.  But I recall reading about it in a Free Press article.  The story was about someone else being scratched and there was a one-off sentence about Zetterberg being scratched (once or twice) early in his career.  Anyway, doesn't matter.  I'm happy to take the loss on this one. 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,566]

18 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Well the only record is from the actual game report for each individual game, and there's no way I'm combing through all of those.  But I recall reading about it in a Free Press article.  The story was about someone else being scratched and there was a one-off sentence about Zetterberg being scratched (once or twice) early in his career.  Anyway, doesn't matter.  I'm happy to take the loss on this one. 

You are right, but not the Red Wings.  Peo Larsson healthy scratched Zetterberg 3 times early in his first year (2000-2001) for Timra IK of the SEL.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

15 hours ago, kipwinger said:

All of our best players are "kids" and they all developed under Blashill.  So he's pretty obviously doing a decent job with their long term development.  I suppose if you think that scratching Hronek or Cholo occasionally is somehow detrimental to their long term development then I'm not sure what to tell you...except that even Datsyuk and Zetterberg were healthy scratched as rookies.  It's really not the end of the world. 

I was being as sarcastic, LOL. My post was a tongue in cheek response to criticism about how Blashill is using the kids.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

19 hours ago, Dabura said:

 

/rant

No. Blashill is clearly mismanaging the kids, especially Cholowski and Hronek. How dare he bench them and play Ericsson. You must hate Blashill. Its only logical.

[kipwinger 7,587]

9 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I was being as sarcastic, LOL. My post was a tongue in cheek response to criticism about how Blashill is using the kids.

Oh, I genuinely didn't pick up on that lol.  Apparently I need to take things people say on LGW less seriously than I already do haha.

[Dabura 11,951]

26 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Oh, I genuinely didn't pick up on that lol.  Apparently I need to take things people say on LGW less seriously than I already do haha.

how. dare. you. sir.

[chaps80 1,591]

Datsyuk got into 70 games his rookie season, and that was also 2002. Hard to crack that lineup with HOFers on every line. Z played 79 his rookie season the following year, again on a stacked roster. Special players those two, now passed into history. 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,566]

Hronek with another pt.