Just for fun where are we at the All Star break

[toby91_ca 620]

23 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Why does everyone act like Holland just gives out NTC/NMC like candy on Halloween? It's part of negotiating a contract. He doesn't just give them away. They are asked for by the player usually in exchange for a shorter team deal or a lower salary,  which benefits the team. Can we stop acting like Holland is Santa Clause?

Ummm....there are something like 9 or 10 players on the team with NTC's and a lot of those contracts are for longer terms and for more money than most would like, so I'm not sure what you are suggesting makes sense.

Edit:  I checked just to see if Detroit truly had more than most teams and they certainly do.  

 - 22 teams have 6 or less

 - 4 teams have 7 (1 is ARI though, so I wouldn't count them as they picked up those contracts to get to cap floor, aren't really paying anything...5 of the 7 are on IR)

 - 2 teams have 8

 - CHI has 9

 - DET and TBL have 10 

Edited January 30, 2019 by toby91_ca

[Learn2LuvIt 245]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

The Vanek contract could have been worse. It could have been a multi-year contract. I understand why Holland may have had to attach a NTC to get him to sign here, I just don't get why he had to get him to sign here... Vanek is way past his prime, and has very little left in the tank. Sure, he's a veteran, but he's not exactly the type of veteran that we should want the kids to learn from. He's far from the type that does it right every shift, every night. Basically, he's lazy and he sucks...

I get the reasoning behind giving out NTC's, most of the time... However, I don't think it's necessary to give almost every player one that is eligible to get one. In my opinion, Vanek shouldn't have one. Abdelkader, Helm, Ericsson, DeKeyser and Daley shouldn't have one. I can understand why Nielsen and Green were given one. Kronwall and Nyquist, sure. Detroit has the most NTC/NMC in the league at 10. It's funny though that the only team with as many, is Tampa, and most Red Wings fans want Holland replaced by Yzerman...

Holland is great at a lot of things. Hiring the right people and allowing those people to do their job, without too much interference, he's good. Drafting and developing, very good. Negotiating RFA contracts, one of the best in the business. Negotiating UFA contracts on the other hand, one of the worst in my opinion...

Pretty much agree with all of what you've said.  I think for the total cost$/package, Kenny may have been thinking that bringing back Vanek was low price to pay to take some of the offensive pressure off of Dylan, Mantha and AA to help their development and get a player with some track record of offensive contribution.  I mean...if one or a few of our young offensive studs were to take a step back this year, who else can put the puck in the net consistently?  Nielsen and....??  Gus has been a pleasant surprise and I don't think we were counting on him contributing as much as he has this year.  Also, yes...way too many NTC's being handed out around here.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

The Vanek contract could have been worse. It could have been a multi-year contract. I understand why Holland may have had to attach a NTC to get him to sign here, I just don't get why he had to get him to sign here... Vanek is way past his prime, and has very little left in the tank. Sure, he's a veteran, but he's not exactly the type of veteran that we should want the kids to learn from. He's far from the type that does it right every shift, every night. Basically, he's lazy and he sucks...

I get the reasoning behind giving out NTC's, most of the time... However, I don't think it's necessary to give almost every player one that is eligible to get one. In my opinion, Vanek shouldn't have one. Abdelkader, Helm, Ericsson, DeKeyser and Daley shouldn't have one. I can understand why Nielsen and Green were given one. Kronwall and Nyquist, sure. Detroit has the most NTC/NMC in the league at 10. It's funny though that the only team with as many, is Tampa, and most Red Wings fans want Holland replaced by Yzerman...

Holland is great at a lot of things. Hiring the right people and allowing those people to do their job, without too much interference, he's good. Drafting and developing, very good. Negotiating RFA contracts, one of the best in the business. Negotiating UFA contracts on the other hand, one of the worst in my opinion...

But..but..he's a rightie.

2 hours ago, toby91_ca said:

Ummm....there are something like 9 or 10 players on the team with NTC's and a lot of those contracts are for longer terms and for more money than most would like, so I'm not sure what you are suggesting makes sense.

Edit:  I checked just to see if Detroit truly had more than most teams and they certainly do.  

 - 22 teams have 6 or less

 - 4 teams have 7 (1 is ARI though, so I wouldn't count them as they picked up those contracts to get to cap floor, aren't really paying anything...5 of the 7 are on IR)

 - 2 teams have 8

 - CHI has 9

 - DET and TBL have 10 

So you think he just gives them out without getting anything back? Holland may give out more than other GMs, but I am pretty confident that the player gives something back to get one.

[krsmith17 7,191]

27 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

So you think he just gives them out without getting anything back? Holland may give out more than other GMs, but I am pretty confident that the player gives something back to get one.

Sounds kinky...

[toby91_ca 620]

29 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

So you think he just gives them out without getting anything back? Holland may give out more than other GMs, but I am pretty confident that the player gives something back to get one.

I totally get that it's a negotiation and he's giving that out in return for something, but I think it's completely fair to criticize how often he gives these out, especially considering that it doesn't appear that he's getting value in return.  For example, there are several cases when I see him sign someone that I think the cap hit is too high...ok, maybe it's a shorter term...no......term looks too long as well.....then on top of that, he gives the NTC as well.

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

We sucked before and we will suck afterward.  Simple!

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

7 hours ago, toby91_ca said:

I totally get that it's a negotiation and he's giving that out in return for something, but I think it's completely fair to criticize how often he gives these out, especially considering that it doesn't appear that he's getting value in return.  For example, there are several cases when I see him sign someone that I think the cap hit is too high...ok, maybe it's a shorter term...no......term looks too long as well.....then on top of that, he gives the NTC as well.

You dont know what other offers there were from other teams. I think its likely that the players took less time and/or term to get those NMC/NTC based on what was out there. You're looking at the contract post signing without the benefit of being in on rhe negotiations. We can look at these contracts and say that the clauses were totally unnecessary, that said player could have been signed to the same contract without it, which in all likelihood, isnt true.