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Jonas Mahonas

Helmdening Prison

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In concept I don't mind what Blashill is doing here, in execution it's bad.  I like the idea of having a gritty puck retrieval guy on each line.  Look how much better Bertuzzi makes his other winger. Mantha looks excellent when Bert's out there winning puck battles, screening goalies, and banging in rebounds.  Nyquist looked better with Bert too.  Yesterday the vaunted Mike Babcock bemoaned the fact that he didn't have more than one Zach Hyman to put on each of his lines, for the exact same reason. 

However, clearly Helm is not that guy.  I think this is more a function of not wanting to give too much to the young guys before they earn it.  It's pretty clear that Bert is already that kind of guy.  Rasmussen is supposed to be, but again, the team is big on guys "earning" their minutes and so when minutes are up for grabs it's not surprising that they go to veterans first.  For what it's worth, Svechnikov is supposed to be this type of guy too.  Blash said in the pre-season that he'd like to see Svech become a "Russian Tyler Bertuzzi".  So in the long run I'm not too worried about this decision.  Once we acquire a 2nd line center we'll have some combination of scoring wingers (AA, Zadina, Mantha) and grit wingers (Ras, Bert, Svech).  I feel pretty good about that actually. 

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13 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

In concept I don't mind what Blashill is doing here, in execution it's bad.  I like the idea of having a gritty puck retrieval guy on each line.  Look how much better Bertuzzi makes his other winger. Mantha looks excellent when Bert's out there winning puck battles, screening goalies, and banging in rebounds.  Nyquist looked better with Bert too.  Yesterday the vaunted Mike Babcock bemoaned the fact that he didn't have more than one Zach Hyman to put on each of his lines, for the exact same reason. 

However, clearly Helm is not that guy.  I think this is more a function of not wanting to give too much to the young guys before they earn it.  It's pretty clear that Bert is already that kind of guy.  Rasmussen is supposed to be, but again, the team is big on guys "earning" their minutes and so when minutes are up for grabs it's not surprising that they go to veterans first.  For what it's worth, Svechnikov is supposed to be this type of guy too.  Blash said in the pre-season that he'd like to see Svech become a "Russian Tyler Bertuzzi".  So in the long run I'm not too worried about this decision.  Once we acquire a 2nd line center we'll have some combination of scoring wingers (AA, Zadina, Mantha) and grit wingers (Ras, Bert, Svech).  I feel pretty good about that actually. 

I bet drafting Kakko will make you feel REAL good.

 

Zadina-Larkin-Kakko

Bertuzzi-Athanasiou-Mantha

Svechnikov-Veleno-Rasmussen

 

Yes.

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2 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I bet drafting Kakko will make you feel REAL good.

 

Zadina-Larkin-Kakko

Bertuzzi-Athanasiou-Mantha

Svechnikov-Veleno-Rasmussen

 

Yes.

I'd never put Zadina and Kakko on the same lines.  Nor would I put Svech and Ras on the same lines.  AND I'd prefer we draft a center.  But he's a great player and I couldn't be mad at it if we did draft him.

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3 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I'd never put Zadina and Kakko on the same lines. 

 

Why not?

 

Nor would I put Svech and Ras on the same lines. 

 

Why not?

 

AND I'd prefer we draft a center.  But he's a great player and I couldn't be mad at it if we did draft him.

 

Cool.

Top 2 wingers with top center, one righty, one lefty,  makes a lot of sense to most.

 

3rd line Winger with 3rd line center makes sense to most.

 

Drafting the #2 pick at #2 position makes sense to most.

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9 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Top 2 wingers with top center, one righty, one lefty,  makes a lot of sense to most.

 

3rd line Winger with 3rd line center makes sense to most.

 

Drafting the #2 pick at #2 position makes sense to most.

They're both volume shooters.  They both need the puck to be effective, but there's only one puck.  Same reason why Phil Kessel didn't work on Crosby's wing despite everybody salivating at the possibility.  Same reason why Washington put Tom Wilson opposite Ovechkin last season.  If you have a guy that needs to get 300 shots to score 40 goals, and you put another guy like that on the same line, one of them isn't going to get his 300 shots. 

So you take one guy like that and put him with a guy who scores via tips, rebounds, etc. and who is really good at retrieving the puck and getting it to your volume shooter. "Most" people think you should put all your most skilled forwards together, but "most" coaches don't do that for a reason.

As for the bolded, you didn't specify in your original post that you assumed we'd be drafting 2nd overall.  If we do, I'd personally prefer we'd trade back but that's another story. 

Also a bit of a stretch to project Ras as a 3rd line center at this point considering he didn't play there his last year of juniors, didn't play there at the Wings' development camp, didn't play there at main camp, didn't play there during his GR conditioning stint, and hasn't played there at all for the Wings.  "Most" people would assume that's an indication that he projects as a winger in the NHL, and I know how much you pay attention to what most people think.

Edited by kipwinger

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5 hours ago, kipwinger said:

In concept I don't mind what Blashill is doing here, in execution it's bad.  I like the idea of having a gritty puck retrieval guy on each line.  Look how much better Bertuzzi makes his other winger. Mantha looks excellent when Bert's out there winning puck battles, screening goalies, and banging in rebounds.  Nyquist looked better with Bert too.  Yesterday the vaunted Mike Babcock bemoaned the fact that he didn't have more than one Zach Hyman to put on each of his lines, for the exact same reason. 

However, clearly Helm is not that guy.  I think this is more a function of not wanting to give too much to the young guys before they earn it.  It's pretty clear that Bert is already that kind of guy.  Rasmussen is supposed to be, but again, the team is big on guys "earning" their minutes and so when minutes are up for grabs it's not surprising that they go to veterans first.  For what it's worth, Svechnikov is supposed to be this type of guy too.  Blash said in the pre-season that he'd like to see Svech become a "Russian Tyler Bertuzzi".  So in the long run I'm not too worried about this decision.  Once we acquire a 2nd line center we'll have some combination of scoring wingers (AA, Zadina, Mantha) and grit wingers (Ras, Bert, Svech).  I feel pretty good about that actually. 

Rasmussen's game isn't banging and grinding.  He's a skill player.

 

Svechnikov is not a "Russian Bertuzzi."

 

Blashill is a moron.

Edited by DickieDunn

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7 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Rasmussen's game isn't banging and grinding.  He's a skill player.

 

Svechnikov is not a "Russian Bertuzzi."

 

Blashill is a moron.

Spoken like a true authority.  Glad you're back. 

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19 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Rasmussen's game isn't banging and grinding.  He's a skill player.

 

Svechnikov is not a "Russian Bertuzzi."

 

Blashill is a moron.

 

11 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Spoken like a true authority.  Glad you're back. 

I mean I tend to agree. Svech n Tuzzi is an odd comparison in my book. Ras is certainly big and not shy, but he's definitely a skill player.

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So Larkin is Andy Dufresne? Who is Red?

1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

Rasmussen's game isn't banging and grinding.  He's a skill player

My wife prefers all 3 of these

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

Rasmussen is going to be a goalie. It's settled science.

Center to winger to D to doghouse. He'll be the next E.

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7 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I bet drafting Kakko will make you feel REAL good.

 

Zadina-Larkin-Kakko

Bertuzzi-Athanasiou-Mantha

Svechnikov-Veleno-Rasmussen

 

Yes.

On the local radio, they are saying “loose for Hughes, or suck for Kak”

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22 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Spoken like a true authority.  Glad you're back. 

One of his biggest problems is he decides what a player should be based on his body type and tries to force a square peg into a round hole.  Plenty of big guys don't play a physical game and are effective.  In fact, look at some of the hardest hitters from when players were actually allowed to hit each other and a lot of them really weren't that big. Kronwall, Konstantinov, Peca, Chelios...

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9 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

One of his biggest problems is he decides what a player should be based on his body type and tries to force a square peg into a round hole.  Plenty of big guys don't play a physical game and are effective.  In fact, look at some of the hardest hitters from when players were actually allowed to hit each other and a lot of them really weren't that big. Kronwall, Konstantinov, Peca, Chelios...

Are you suggesting that Rasmussen shouldn't be a net front guy? Or that he wasn't in Juniors? Or that he shouldn't use his size to win puck battles and protect the puck on the cycle?

I don't think skill and "banging and grinding" are mutually exclusive.  Corey Perry, James Van Riemsdyk, Wayne Simmonds, and a host of other guys seems to do both at a consistently high level.  Perhaps that's what Blashill is suggesting?

Edited by kipwinger

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2 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

One of his biggest problems is he decides what a player should be based on his body type and tries to force a square peg into a round hole.  Plenty of big guys don't play a physical game and are effective.  In fact, look at some of the hardest hitters from when players were actually allowed to hit each other and a lot of them really weren't that big. Kronwall, Konstantinov, Peca, Chelios...

Dickie cmon,, you claimed for months and months that Blashill wants Larkin to be a powerforward.

Larkin is a first line center.

I get that you don't like Blashill but I don't know where you drive  your conclusions from half the time. 

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