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Jonas Mahonas

Larkin/Athanasiou

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Do we have our next dynamic duo in these 2?  

 

With Zadina/Cozens/Mantha/Bertuzzi, our top 6 looks healthy going forward.

 

Rasmussen-Veleno-Svechnikov might end up dangerous as well.

 

I feel like Holland might want to start looking at becoming a buyer instead of a seller in the next 1-2 seasons.  We don't seem that far off at forward.

 

Defense is another issue.  That department is D- material.

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AA had a really great game last night, but I'd need to see more of those than not for the remainder of the season before I'd be willing to chalk him in as a center full time.  I still think the best course of action is to draft a center (Zegras) and let AA stay on the wing and fly.

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No. They will never be as good as the Euro Twins. D and Z were elite 2 way top line centers in their primes.

Larkin is very good. Good enough to be a 2 way 1C, but not elite.

AA is better this year, but will never be elite. He is not a 2 way player, and is not a full time center, let alone a 1C.

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35 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Top 5 at their position.

That definition precludes some pretty good centers.  Let's say McDavid, Crosby, and Matthews are the top three, and I'll let you pick the next two, I bet I can name a whole host of "elite" guys who wouldn't satisfy your requirement but would nevertheless be considered elite by just about everyone. 

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12 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

That definition precludes some pretty good centers.  Let's say McDavid, Crosby, and Matthews are the top three, and I'll let you pick the next two, I bet I can name a whole host of "elite" guys who wouldn't satisfy your requirement but would nevertheless be considered elite by just about everyone. 

Now we know why Blashill uses the "elite, elite" label. If he just said "elite" then everyone would be confused all the time. :hehe:

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55 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

That definition precludes some pretty good centers.  Let's say McDavid, Crosby, and Matthews are the top three, and I'll let you pick the next two, I bet I can name a whole host of "elite" guys who wouldn't satisfy your requirement but would nevertheless be considered elite by just about everyone. 

There's no denying that Z and D were better players than Larkin is currently. Whether he surpasses them is another story. 

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

AA is better this year, but will never be elite. He is not a 2 way player, and is not a full time center, let alone a 1C.

"AA sucks and can only score on breakaways" - Neomaxizoomdweedie 2018

Scores in the shootout, scores on breakaways, scores on the rush, carries his own play and skates from one end of the ice to the other and scores, scores on rebound, scores from a pass. - Andreas Athanasiou 2018/2019 NHL season.

Edited by kickazz

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I guess this is one of the nice things about rebuilding.

We needed Datsyuk and Zetterberg to become powerhouse players and they did. We needed Nyquist and Tatar to become powerhouse players and they didn't. Now that we're rebuilding, we're not trapped in a situation where we need [insert a couple of nobody prospects] to magically become powerhouses. Mantha's probably not going to be a 40-goal scorer and that's ok, because in a few months our top-six wingers could be Mantha, Bertuzzi, Athanasiou, Hughes/Kakko, Zadina, Rasmussen -- i.e. a group with a hell of a lot of potential.

Same deal with center and defense. Larkin is The Man right now, but there's nothing to say we're not going to have an even better centerman at some point soon. Hronek is establishing himself as the closest thing we have to a (future) legit 1D, but he doesn't necessarily have to become a total beast, as we have other genuinely promising defensemen in the system and I have to assume we're going to get at least one more in the upcoming draft.

Like, think of it this way. A few years ago, Zadina would've been seen as a gift from God to this organization. But in the context of this rebuild? Well, he's a potential 40-goal scorer...and we could be just a few months away from getting an even better forward prospect in the draft.

Edited by Dabura

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36 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I guess this is one of the nice things about rebuilding.

We needed Datsyuk and Zetterberg to become powerhouse players and they did. We needed Nyquist and Tatar to become powerhouse players and they didn't. Now that we're rebuilding, we're not trapped in a situation where we need [insert a couple of nobody prospects] to magically become powerhouses. Mantha's probably not going to be a 40-goal scorer and that's ok, because in a few months our top-six wingers could be Mantha, Bertuzzi, Athanasiou, Hughes/Kakko, Zadina, Rasmussen -- i.e. a group with a hell of a lot of potential.

Same deal with center and defense. Larkin is The Man right now, but there's nothing to say we're not going to have an even better centerman at some point soon. Hronek is establishing himself as the closest thing we have to a (future) legit 1D, but he doesn't necessarily have to become a total beast, as we have other genuinely promising defensemen in the system and I have to assume we're going to get at least one more in the upcoming draft.

Like, think of it this way. A few years ago, Zadina would've been seen as a gift from God to this organization. But in the context of this rebuild? Well, he's a potential 40-goal scorer...and we could be just a few months away from getting an even better forward prospect in the draft.

Basically we may have options and there's no rush.

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5 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Basically we may have options and there's no rush.

This is what I don't agree with.  Rebuilding shouldn't be a 10 year process.  It should be 3-4 years.  We are already almost finished with year 2.  After the next 2 drafts and FA periods, a team should be in place to contend.  We don't want to follow the Oiler model.  The Blackhawks and Pens did it right with their 2 big drafts.

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1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

This is what I don't agree with.  Rebuilding shouldn't be a 10 year process.  It should be 3-4 years.  We are already almost finished with year 2.  After the next 2 drafts and FA periods, a team should be in place to contend.  We don't want to follow the Oiler model.  The Blackhawks and Pens did it right with their 2 big drafts.

Wow, you're right.  Rebuilding like the Penguins or Blackhawks would be better than rebuilding like the Oilers.  Let's do that.

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4 hours ago, kickazz said:

There's no denying that Z and D were better players than Larkin is currently. Whether he surpasses them is another story. 

"AA sucks and can only score on breakaways" - Neomaxizoomdweedie 2018

Scores in the shootout, scores on breakaways, scores on the rush, carries his own play and skates from one end of the ice to the other and scores, scores on rebound, scores from a pass. - Andreas Athanasiou 2018/2019 NHL season.

You're right. AA is an elite, 2 way full time top line center. Is that what you want me to say?

 

Hmmm. Somehow I think my first assessment was more accurate.

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21 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I'm not seeing the problem here.

I am.  Not every Larkin and every Athanasiou has a 10 year window of awesomeness like the Yzerman, Fedorov, and Datsyuks of the league.  Some guys only speak for 4-5 years.  We gotta get good quick.

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25 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

You're right. AA is an elite, 2 way full time top line center. Is that what you want me to say?

 

Hmmm. Somehow I think my first assessment was more accurate.

Red Herring.

No one is implying AA is elite. He's a capable top 6 player and is improving and that's basically what majority of the guys here had projected since last year. You wrote off AA last summer by calling him a guy that just scores on breakaways, which he obviously proved otherwise and now you're making hasty conclusions that Larkin and AA will never be "X, Y or Z". 

Larkin is young and we don't know how much more he can improve. AA too is young; though his window towards his peak is shorter. 

Edited by kickazz

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5 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I am.  Not every Larkin and every Athanasiou has a 10 year window of awesomeness like the Yzerman, Fedorov, and Datsyuks of the league.  Some guys only speak for 4-5 years.  We gotta get good quick.

Eh, I dunno. I'll worry when we're genuinely underachieving and wasting years of what should be a Cup window. IMO, we're at least a year away from having that kind of talent and the high expectations that come with it.

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46 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Eh, I dunno. I'll worry when we're genuinely underachieving and wasting years of what should be a Cup window. IMO, we're at least a year away from having that kind of talent and the high expectations that come with it.

I think we are 5-7 years away with only a 2-3 year window if Holland doesn't pick up some UFAs to supplement the draft picks.  That was my point.

1 hour ago, kickazz said:

Red Herring.

No one is implying AA is elite. He's a capable top 6 player and is improving and that's basically what majority of the guys here had projected since last year. You wrote off AA last summer by calling him a guy that just scores on breakaways, which he obviously proved otherwise and now you're making hasty conclusions that Larkin and AA will never be "X, Y or Z". 

Larkin is young and we don't know how much more he can improve. AA too is young; though his window towards his peak is shorter. 

Yes, don't let Neo or 91OR off the hook.  They both took a dump on AA after 50 games = stupid.  Guy could score 50 this year with bottom 6 line mates.  That's INCREDIBLE.

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6 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I think we are 5-7 years away with only a 2-3 year window if Holland doesn't pick up some UFAs to supplement the draft picks.  That was my point.

If we're 5-7 years away, then we're probably going to pick up a lot of very good young players in the coming years, and those will probably be complemented by free agent signings and trade acquisitions. So I dunno why we have to be gnashing our teeth over 22-year-old Larkin and good-not-great Athanasiou and worrying that their primes are only going to last for five years.

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3 hours ago, Dabura said:

If we're 5-7 years away, then we're probably going to pick up a lot of very good young players in the coming years, and those will probably be complemented by free agent signings and trade acquisitions. So I dunno why we have to be gnashing our teeth over 22-year-old Larkin and good-not-great Athanasiou and worrying that their primes are only going to last for five years.

Edmonton Oilers is why

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