2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread, Pt. 2 - What's the Yzerplan?

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

You know it's the middle of August when.........................

My underarm, and boob sweat in the humidity wishes it was October already...

 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

30 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Yes, I would like to see that.

For this reason here.  I am sure Turgeon would LOVE to be dealt to the MTL Organization, and McCarron the same here. When the players like Abby, Helm and disney.com are gone, I'd much rather see McCarron here in a 4th line role than Turgeon.  For no other reason to see a local kid play for his hometown team. PLUS, you never know what could happen.  Imagine the might behind a line with McCarron and Rasmussen? Big boys!

sorry man but if we have a Rasmussen and mccarron 4th line duo it would be a complete failure when you consider we wasted a 9th overall pick 

9 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

You know it's the middle of August when.........................

At least nfl’s right around the corner 

16 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

"Your" in the universal sense. I know it wasn't your specific trade proposal.  Also, I don't care whether or not Turgeon wants to play in Montreal or vice versa.  This a business.  If it doesn't improve the organization then it's not worth bothering with.  Also, the Red Wings might very well like Turgeon's game.  I mean, they drafted him AND re-signed him.  So trading him because McCarron is from Michigan seems pretty dumb unless they like McCarron just as much or more, and there's nothing to indicate that they do (having passed on him in the draft). 

What does passing on a player at the draft have to do with anything ? Players get moved all the time and players get resigned all the time it’s just adding depth players to your organization rather than losing them for nothing ,at this point both players are going to be 4th line guys or career ahl guys so I don’t see the big deal of swapping them both if it’s a deal that both teams like 

[kipwinger 8,524]

16 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

sorry man but if we have a Rasmussen and mccarron 4th line duo it would be a complete failure when you consider we wasted a 9th overall pick 

At least nfl’s right around the corner 

What does passing on a player at the draft have to do with anything ? Players get moved all the time and players get resigned all the time it’s just adding depth players to your organization rather than losing them for nothing ,at this point both players are going to be 4th line guys or career ahl guys so I don’t see the big deal of swapping them both if it’s a deal that both teams like 

My point is that the Red Wings like Turgeon, and there's nothing to indicate they have any feelings at all about McCarron except that they had the chance to draft him and didn't. Your whole "why not if you like the deal?" scenario is silly because there's everything to suggest the Red Wings "like" Turgeon and nothing to suggest they would want McCarron. So why would they "like a deal for McCarron"? It's a nothing trade for no reason.  But then again, big puds like McCarron will always appeal to somebody I suppose. 

Edited August 12, 2019 by kipwinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

36 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

"Your" in the universal sense. I know it wasn't your specific trade proposal.  Also, I don't care whether or not Turgeon wants to play in Montreal or vice versa.  This a business.  If it doesn't improve the organization then it's not worth bothering with.  Also, the Red Wings might very well like Turgeon's game.  I mean, they drafted him AND re-signed him.  So trading him because McCarron is from Michigan seems pretty dumb unless they like McCarron just as much or more, and there's nothing to indicate that they do (having passed on him in the draft). 

Turgeon being from Quebec and McCarron being from Michigan isn't the reason I'd make the trade, it's just an aside. What makes you think that McCarron for Turgeon wouldn't improve the team? Last season Turgeon put up a whopping 20 points in 72 games in Grand Rapids, and 0 points in 4 games in Detroit. McCarron put up 21 points in 32 games in Laval, and 1 point in 18 games in Montreal. Sure seems like an upgrade to me...

Holland drafted Turgeon, and yes he did pass on McCarron to draft Mantha. I'd say that was a pretty good decision. But who's to say that they didn't really like McCarron too and maybe would have drafted him in the 2nd round instead of Nastasiuk...

There's nothing to indicate that the Red Wings like any player outside of the organization, so with that logic, we should never make any trades...

[krsmith17 7,191]

26 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

My point is that the Red Wings like Turgeon, and there's nothing to indicate they have any feelings at all about McCarron except that they had the chance to draft him and didn't. Your whole "why not if you like the deal?" scenario is silly because there's everything to suggest the Red Wings "like" Turgeon and nothing to suggest they would want McCarron. So why would they "like a deal for McCarron"? It's a nothing trade for no reason.  But then again, big puds like McCarron will always appeal to somebody I suppose. 

Would you trade Svechnikov for Aho? Probably not. The Red Wings like Svechnikov because they drafted him, and have never showed any interest in Aho because they had a chance to draft him and didn't...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Turgeon being from Quebec and McCarron being from Michigan isn't the reason I'd make the trade, it's just an aside. What makes you think that McCarron for Turgeon wouldn't improve the team? Last season Turgeon put up a whopping 20 points in 72 games in Grand Rapids, and 0 points in 4 games in Detroit. McCarron put up 21 points in 32 games in Laval, and 1 point in 18 games in Montreal. Sure seems like an upgrade to me...

Holland drafted Turgeon, and yes he did pass on McCarron to draft Mantha. I'd say that was a pretty good decision. But who's to say that they didn't really like McCarron too and maybe would have drafted him in the 2nd round instead of Nastasiuk...

There's nothing to indicate that the Red Wings like any player outside of the organization, so with that logic, we should never make any trades...

Wait. Aren't you, like, the only member of LGWs that actually likes Turgeon?  He's always your future 4th line center no? 

[kipwinger 8,524]

20 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Would you trade Svechnikov for Aho? Probably not. The Red Wings like Svechnikov because they drafted him, and have never showed any interest in Aho because they had a chance to draft him and didn't...

Aho is a demonstrably better player than Svech.  McCarron isn't a demonstrably better player than Turgeon.  Again, the premise of the trade is that since neither are any good, why not?  I'll always make trades that improve the team.  Trades that don't do anything are pointless, and dumb.  Checking line centers are supposed to do things like play defense, win faceoffs, kill penalties, etc.  McCarron isn't that guy, so why bother with him? 

26 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Turgeon being from Quebec and McCarron being from Michigan isn't the reason I'd make the trade, it's just an aside. What makes you think that McCarron for Turgeon wouldn't improve the team? Last season Turgeon put up a whopping 20 points in 72 games in Grand Rapids, and 0 points in 4 games in Detroit. McCarron put up 21 points in 32 games in Laval, and 1 point in 18 games in Montreal. Sure seems like an upgrade to me...

Holland drafted Turgeon, and yes he did pass on McCarron to draft Mantha. I'd say that was a pretty good decision. But who's to say that they didn't really like McCarron too and maybe would have drafted him in the 2nd round instead of Nastasiuk...

There's nothing to indicate that the Red Wings like any player outside of the organization, so with that logic, we should never make any trades...

Nope, you should make trades if a player is better, fills a need, has a better contract, etc. etc. etc.  TONS of reasons to make trades.  What you should definitely not do is make a trade just for the heck of it.  Which is EXACTLY what this would be.  The Wings like Turgeon, he checks all the boxes for a checking line center, McCarron fills none of them.  He's also younger for what that's worth.  And since neither of these guys is going to be anything MORE than a checking line center, why trade for the worse one?  Again, it's an idiotic trade idea supported by lazy fans who get it in their head that they "like" a player and then jump through hoops trying to justify why acquiring that player is a good idea.  It's not.  McCarron sucks.  We have plenty of guys who suck.  Why swap them?  For a different version of "suck"?

Edited August 12, 2019 by kipwinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

30 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Aho is a demonstrably better player than Svech.  McCarron isn't a demonstrably better player than Turgeon.  Again, the premise of the trade is that since neither are any good, why not?  I'll always make trades that improve the team.  Trades that don't do anything are pointless, and dumb.  Checking line centers are supposed to do things like play defense, win faceoffs, kill penalties, etc.  McCarron isn't that guy, so why bother with him? 

I just "demonstrated" how McCarron is "demonstratably better" than Turgeon, unless of course you don't like the stats I provided...

33 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Nope, you should make trades if a player is better, fills a need, has a better contract, etc. etc. etc.  TONS of reasons to make trades.  What you should definitely not do is make a trade just for the heck of it.  Which is EXACTLY what this would be.  The Wings like Turgeon, he checks all the boxes for a checking line center, McCarron fills none of them.  He's also younger for what that's worth.  And since neither of these guys is going to be anything MORE than a checking line center, why trade for the worse one?  Again, it's an idiotic trade idea supported by lazy fans who get it in their head that they "like" a player and then jump through hoops trying to justify why acquiring that player is a good idea.  It's not.  McCarron sucks.  We have plenty of guys who suck.  Why swap them?  For a different version of "suck"?

Trades "for the heck of it" are made all the time...

If we're talking about the player that "lazy fans like" more, it's Turgeon for me. I've long been a supporter of Turgeon and have said he deserves a shot as our 4th line center. That doesn't mean he's untouchable, or we shouldn't trade him for a better player. McCarron, in my opinion is a better player. You disagree, but get off your high horse and stop thinking you know better than everyone else. You don't.

[kipwinger 8,524]

3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I just "demonstrated" how McCarron is "demonstratably better" than Turgeon, unless of course you don't like the stats I provided...

Trades "for the heck of it" are made all the time...

If we're talking about the player that "lazy fans like" more, it's Turgeon for me. I've long been a supporter of Turgeon and have said he deserves a shot as our 4th line center. That doesn't mean he's untouchable, or we shouldn't trade him for a better player. McCarron, in my opinion is a better player. You disagree, but get off your high horse and stop thinking you know better than everyone else. You don't.

McCarron has already proven he can't score in the NHL.  He's not good at anything else.  Turgeon isn't a scorer, but IS good at everything else.  As such, he's more valuable. 

Edit:  I don't think I know more than everyone else.  Just you. 

Edited August 12, 2019 by kipwinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

McCarron has already proven he can't score in the NHL.  He's not good at anything else.  Turgeon isn't a scorer, but IS good at everything else.  As such, he's more valuable. 

Edit:  I don't think I know more than everyone else.  Just you. 

Yeah, Turgeon's 0 points, -5, and 35% faceoff wins in 9 NHL games proves very valuable...

I'm not all about trading Turgeon. I'm all about debunking your dumbass reasoning why such a trade would be "idiotic". Would it be a great trade? Probably not. Would it be a dumb trade like you're suggesting? Nope.

[kipwinger 8,524]

15 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, Turgeon's 0 points, -5, and 35% faceoff wins in 9 NHL games proves very valuable...

I'm not all about trading Turgeon. I'm all about debunking your dumbass reasoning why such a trade would be "idiotic". Would it be a great trade? Probably not. Would it be a dumb trade like you're suggesting? Nope.

Yeah, Turgeon has played 9 NHL games.  That's a pretty small sample size. However, McCarron has sucked in 69 NHL games.  So take that for what it's worth.  Also, as already noted Turgeon wasn't drafted to be a scorer.  McCarron WAS drafted to be a scorer, so his .12 ppg over 69 games should be proof positive that he blows. AND McCarron is terrible at everything else.  Turgeon isn't, which is why the Wings re-signed him.

It's an idiotic trade that would accomplish nothing.  We'd get nothing good out of it.  It's the very definition of dumb.  If a person finds themselves defending such a trade, they are also dumb.  It's science. 

Edited August 12, 2019 by kipwinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Yeah, Turgeon has played 9 NHL games.  That's a pretty small sample size. However, McCarron has sucked in 69 NHL games.  So take that for what it's worth.  Also, as already noted Turgeon wasn't drafted to be a scorer.  McCarron WAS drafted to be a scorer, so his .12 ppg over 69 games should be proof positive that he blows. AND McCarron is terrible at everything else.  Turgeon isn't, which is why the Wings re-signed him.

It's an idiotic trade what would accomplish nothing.  We'd get nothing good out of it.  It's the very definition of dumb.  If a person finds themselves defending such a trade, they are also dumb.  It's science. 

Imagine being so egotistical to call people names over a discussion about two minor league players in the dead of the offseason. F***ing loser.

[kipwinger 8,524]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Imagine being so egotistical to call people names over a discussion about two minor league players in the dead of the offseason. F***ing loser.

I didn't call you a name.  I said it's a dumb trade and only dumb people would endorse it.  You don't have to endorse it.  You can back out now and just admit trading for a one-trick pony who isn't even good at his one trick is a bad idea for a trade.  The only way the "dumb" comment applies to you is if you'd make the trade.  So would you?

[krsmith17 7,191]

14 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I didn't call you a name.  I said it's a dumb trade and only dumb people would endorse it.  You don't have to endorse it.  You can back out now and just admit trading for a one-trick pony who isn't even good at his one trick is a bad idea for a trade.  The only way the "dumb" comment applies to you is if you'd make the trade.  So would you?

As I said from the beginning. Sure, why not? It's two depth players that will never have a big enough impact on the game to move the needle one way or another. Maybe a change of scenery gives one or both a boost. 

But yeah, anyone that disagrees with kipwinger is dumb... 

[kipwinger 8,524]

14 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

As I said from the beginning. Sure, why not? It's two depth players that will never have a big enough impact on the game to move the needle one way or another. Maybe a change of scenery gives one or both a boost. 

But yeah, anyone that disagrees with kipwinger is dumb... 

First, Turgeon doesn't need a "boost".  He's already played well enough to earn a new contract from the vaunted GM Yzerman.  McCarron's the one who has played his way off his NHL team.  Speaking of, I just want you to reiterate that you're in favor of trading for a player who has already proven over the course of roughly 70 NHL games that he sucks because he "might" play better after a "change of scenery"?  And you'd trade a player that the Wings' organization is obviously happy with in order to get this retread? 

And you don't think that's a dumb trade?

Edited August 12, 2019 by kipwinger

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

McCarron is big

I like that about him

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

22 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

First, Turgeon doesn't need a "boost".  He's already played well enough to earn a new contract from the vaunted GM Yzerman.  McCarron's the one who has played his way off his NHL team.  Speaking of, I just want you to reiterate that you're in favor of trading for a player who has already proven over the course of roughly 70 NHL games that he sucks because he "might" play better after a "change of scenery"?  And you'd trade a player that the Wings' organization is obviously happy with in order to get this retread? 

And you don't think that's a dumb trade?

McCarron was also re-signed by his team. So what? You think that determines a players worth?

9 games is a small sample size, but so is 69 games over the course of three seasons. He still has 8 more points than Turgeon now, and maybe 8 more than he'll ever get at the NHL level. Oh, but that doesn't matter, because Turgeon is such a stud defensively.

Again, I like Turgeon. I think he could be a decent 4th line center. It's not even about this insignificant trade. It's about how you always think you know better than everyone else.

"Not everyone. Just you" Derp...

[kipwinger 8,524]

8 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

McCarron was also re-signed by his team. So what? You think that determines a players worth?

9 games is a small sample size, but so is 69 games over the course of three seasons. He still has 8 more points than Turgeon now, and maybe 8 more than he'll ever get at the NHL level. Oh, but that doesn't matter, because Turgeon is such a stud defensively.

Again, I like Turgeon. I think he could be a decent 4th line center. It's not even about this insignificant trade. It's about how you always think you know better than everyone else.

"Not everyone. Just you" Derp...

So you've chosen to argue with me all morning about a trade you don't care about to prove how SMART you are? 

Good thinking. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

So you've chosen to argue with me all morning about a trade you don't care about to prove how SMART you are? 

Good thinking. 

Absolutely. I don't give a s*** about this trade. I just think you're an arrogant prick.

It's been a blast.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Yeah, Turgeon's 0 points, -5, and 35% faceoff wins in 9 NHL games proves very valuable...

I'm not all about trading Turgeon. I'm all about debunking your dumbass reasoning why such a trade would be "idiotic". Would it be a great trade? Probably not. Would it be a dumb trade like you're suggesting? Nope.

Right?  What Turgeon is Kipwinger watching?  Every time i have watched him, he has stunk. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

Absolutely. I don't give a s*** about this trade. I just think you're an arrogant prick.

It's been a blast.

Man, you really had me going.  Who knew that instead of you yet again being all histrionic when someone disagrees with you (as has been the case for years), this has all been a clever ruse to prove to everyone that I'm a d*ck?  You're thinking like 10 steps ahead here.  You're basically the Napoleon of LGW.  I'm in awe.

1 minute ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Right?  What Turgeon is Kipwinger watching?  Every time i have watched him, he has stunk. 

I'm not going to address your sock account, @krsmith17.  One of you is more than enough. 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Absolutely. I don't give a s*** about this trade. I just think you're an arrogant prick.

It's been a blast.

Dude, RELAX.  Kipwinger is just a stubborn ol cuss is all.  You can present evidence that the greatest player to ever play hockey feels the same way you do, and he still wont back off.  Dont let him bug you.  Everyone else can see when he is wrong.

4 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

 

I'm not going to address your sock account, @krsmith17.  One of you is more than enough. 

Ha!  KRS and I battle regularly.  But he isnt as knuckleheaded as you.  Hes just wrong sometimes.  

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

3 hours ago, kipwinger said:

My point is that the Red Wings like Turgeon, and there's nothing to indicate they have any feelings at all about McCarron except that they had the chance to draft him and didn't. Your whole "why not if you like the deal?" scenario is silly because there's everything to suggest the Red Wings "like" Turgeon and nothing to suggest they would want McCarron. So why would they "like a deal for McCarron"? It's a nothing trade for no reason.  But then again, big puds like McCarron will always appeal to somebody I suppose. 

They like him enough to keep him around rather than losing him for nothing at this point which isn’t saying much , he’s in the same boat as ehn,delarose etc... I’m sure he’s vey expendable 

sure we don’t know how they feel about mccarron or any players since we’re not privileged enough to be in the player discussions but to think a player like mccarron isn’t a possibility because we passed on him is just stupid , why would any team trade for any player? Why would buffalo trade Alex nylander for jokiharju? They had a chance and passed on him , so silly 

you do realize just because a team signs someone and “likes them” doesn’t mean they won’t trade that player , again ... sometimes it’s as simple as keeping an asset rather than losing them for nothing

anyways this was just a simple question I had I don’t wanna get into it and get into it over two bottom line guys who will be lucky enough to play 2-3 seasons in the nhl at this point lol

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

10 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Right?  What Turgeon is Kipwinger watching?  Every time i have watched him, he has stunk. 

I don't even really agree with this. I don't think he stinks. Turgeon is the perfect example of why you don't sign players like Abdelkader, Helm, Glendening, etc. to life-term contracts. Turgeon is a replacement level player that could easily step in and play adequately on the 4th line.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

3 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Wait. Aren't you, like, the only member of LGWs that actually likes Turgeon?  He's always your future 4th line center no? 

He has a chance to play on the fourth line for a few seasons maybe ,but let’s be real our team is stacked with a s*** ton of scrubs lol + smith maybe in a few seasons , I’m personally higher on Pearson than turgeon and think he will be a player + I’d have ehn ahead of turgeon , he’s very expendable and I’d be shocked to see him here in 2- 3 years