2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread, Pt. 2 - What's the Yzerplan?

[kickazz 5,459]

22 hours ago, Dabura said:

The other Official 2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread has run its course; consider this a continuation/reboot/reset/restart/rebuild/retool. (How very meta.)

Plan is to tank again 

[LeftWinger 4,951]

Here we go!

First of all, you never trade AA. Period.

Cap rises to $83M (shy of $85M rumor)

Isles lose in 7 games to Nashville in SCF, they call Detroit at the draft asking them the price of acquiring Nielsen for veteran leadership.  Nielsen waives his NTC and Isles send 2019 1st (#30) to Detroit in exchange for Nielsen, 2019 2nd (#35.)

Detroit trades E. Svechnikov, Givani Smith, 2019 2nd round (Isles #60) to Carolina for Justin Faulk.

Detroit drafts Bowen Byram at #6, Cole Caufield (fingers crossed) at #30. See below for my entire draft!

Detroit uses ZERO buyouts

Detroit signs Erik Karlsson (5 yrs $12M) and Gus Nyquist (5 yrs $5.5M) on July 1. Re-Signs Kronwall (1yr 4$M) Witkowski (2yrs $750K)

Mike Green start season on LTIR along with Z and Fanzen.  Cholowski, Rasmussen, Kuffner, Frk (re-signed) start in GR. Sign Veleno, Byram and Caufield to ELC's. Re-sign McIlrath, Chelios, Rybar, Sulak, Hicketts, Wade (all GR.)  Vanek, Sateri are both allowed to pursue other opportunities. Rybar and Larsson are your GR goalies.

Believe it or not, still have $5.5M in cap space.

Opening Day Looks like:

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha

Hirose - AA - Zadina

Helm - DLR - Nyquist

Abby - Ehn - Glenny

(Witko)

DD - Karlsson

Daley - Faulk

Kronwall - Hronek

(Ericsson - Bowey)

Howard

Bernier

....Do I think Holland will be this bold? No. But this would be nice! Yep, I'm crazy, but as long as we are poking and hoping. (yes, I dropped the idea of Skinner in exchange for a cheaper Nyquist, who will no doubt bring Karlsson with him! )

 

2019 Draft: (after my deals above)

1st round:  B. Byram, C. Caufield (if not there then Nolan Foote)

2nd round: (with SJS pick that remains after trades) Ethan Keppen

3rd round: Ryan Johnson

4th round: Nando Eggenberger

5th round: Michal Mrazik, Mason Primeau

6th round: Juuso Parsinen

7th round: Adam Edstrom

 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

5 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

 

....Do I think Holland will be this bold? No. But this would be nice! Yep, I'm crazy, but as long as we are poking and hoping. (yes, I dropped the idea of Skinner in exchange for a cheaper Nyquist, who will no doubt bring Karlsson with him! )

My money is on both Nyquist and Karlsson going to Dallas. Gus is a very known quantity to Jim Nill. Maybe not? I think Karlsson's going there for 100% sure. 

[LeftWinger 4,951]

9 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

My money is on both Nyquist and Karlsson going to Dallas. Gus is a very known quantity to Jim Nill. Maybe not? I think Karlsson's going there for 100% sure. 

then we'll trade them E.

[krsmith17 7,191]

43 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

First of all, you never trade AA. Period.

I don't get this... Why not? He's a 2nd line center / winger that relies heavily on speed to produce chances / goals. That speed isn't going to last forever, and I question how productive he will be when he does eventually (inevitably) lose a step or two. I'm not advocating trading him for just anything, but if we could trade him in a package for a top pair, or even top three defenseman, I'd do it without thinking twice. You say "never trade AA. Period." as if you wouldn't trade him for a Rasmus Dahlin or Miro Heiskanen... I don't think that would be the case though (at least I'd hope not), even for the most die hard Athanasiou fans...

52 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Detroit signs Erik Karlsson (5 yrs $12M) and Gus Nyquist (5 yrs $5.5M) on July 1. Re-Signs Kronwall (1yr 4$M) Witkowski (2yrs $750K)

I f***ing hope not. Stay away from any and all big name free agents. That includes Karlsson, especially at that price...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

12 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't get this... Why not? He's a 2nd line center / winger that relies heavily on speed to produce chances / goals. That speed isn't going to last forever, and I question how productive he will be when he does eventually (inevitably) lose a step or two. I'm not advocating trading him for just anything, but if we could trade him in a package for a top pair, or even top three defenseman, I'd do it without thinking twice. You say "never trade AA. Period." as if you wouldn't trade him for a Rasmus Dahlin or Miro Heiskanen... I don't think that would be the case though (at least I'd hope not), even for the most die hard Athanasiou fans...

I f***ing hope not. Stay away from any and all big name free agents. That includes Karlsson, especially at that price...

His breakaways are exciting thou

[kipwinger 8,521]

It would be really hard for me to part with AA for the sole reason that the lion's share of his points are goals, but his point totals are relatively low.  50 pts guys in the NHL are a dime a dozen, but when 30 of those points are goals you're in select company.  Why does this matter?  Because he'll provide a ton of goals for a more modest cap hit than you'd expect.  Given that his last two years have been lackluster my guess is he'll come in around 5.5-6 per year, which is great.  I'd be MUCH more skeptical of giving that money to a 50 point guy who's primarily racking up assists. 

Two other things, if you're going to criticize AA for being a one trick pony at least acknowledge that burying breakaways is a pretty awesome trick.  Not many guys can get those types of looks in the NHL and even fewer can capitalize. I'm also not even sure it's true anymore.  In the past sure, but if you look back at a lot of his goals this year you'll see him shooting WAY more, using better positioning to score on backdoor plays/rebounds, and stickhandling through defenders to get open looks. 

Secondly, tons of fast skaters maintain their speed well into their mid-30's and I think AA is probably better than most of those guys.  Off the top of my head Grabner, Gaborik, Selanne, Bure, Fedorov, come to mind.  Power guys seem WAY more likely to fall off than excellent skaters.  So EVEN IF AA scores most of his goals off breakaways (which is probably less true now than in the past) I'd bet on him keeping that up for a good long time over someone like, say, Bertuzzi who doesn't have that dynamic element to his game. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by kipwinger

[Dabura 12,207]

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

It would be really hard for me to part with AA for the sole reason that the lion's share of his points are goals, but his point totals are relatively low.  50 pts guys in the NHL are a dime a dozen, but when 30 of those points are goals you're in select company.  Why does this matter?  Because he'll provide a ton of goals for a more modest cap hit than you'd expect.  Given that his last two years have been lackluster my guess is he'll come in around 5.5-6 per year, which is great.  I'd be MUCH more skeptical of giving that money to a 50 point guy who's primarily racking up assists.

I go back and forth on this issue. Goals versus assists, I mean.

On the one hand, goals are goals; you want goals, you want guys who are proven high-percentage goal-scorers. On the other hand, you could argue that playmakers are equally valuable because some of the best goal-scorers need good setup guys.

What makes AA a tricky case -- and you've been hitting on this point -- is that he doesn't necessarily need setup guys as much as a guy like, say, Ovi does. A lot/Most of AA's goals are rush goals. For that reason, "AA scores most of his goals on breakaways" isn't necessarily the damning criticism that some people might think it is.

I like Mantha's all-around game; I think he's the better playmaker, I think he's the better possession player (in terms of the conventional shot-based metrics), I think he's better on the cycle, I think he's the smarter player. At the same time, I feel like AA is arguably a gamebreaking goal-scorer and has the capacity to be wildly effective just doing his thing and perfecting it, whereas maybe Mantha is more of an all-around solid guy who doesn't necessarily offer real gamebreaking prowess.

But then Mantha has a Mule-esque monster game and I throw my hands up in the air and ask why we're even talking about trading either of these guys when our only core scorers are Bertuzzi, Larkin, Mantha, Athanasiou, an unproven Hirose, and an unproven Zadina.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Dabura

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

[Dabura 12,207]

6 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

[Dabura 12,207]

A good read:

Rebuilding the Red Wings - My Approach To The 2019 Offseason [Winging It In Motown]

tl;dr This team isn't a Connor McDavid away from being a truly solid playoff team, so management should hold off on making any big moves until 2020-21. Embrace the suck for one more season.

There are some good discussions in the comment section of this piece...

Quote

I think this is a logical path to take if the Red Wings weren't also a business

I think a majority of the fanbase would be upset at what they see as stagnation (and I have to admit I felt it a little bit as well while reading this). I don’t see any situation where Detroit simply sits and waits for things to get better, as they need to sell tickets, corporate boxes, and merchandise, and although the fans are starting to rally around the young stars, they want a winner, or at least tangible signs of improvement in the standings. The Wings haven’t been players in FA/trades in what feels like forever, and I think a lot of people are thinking "if not now, when?"

Even a couple slight differences could change that tone and still accomplish a majority of what you want to do (with the possibility of a few more wins), however. I think buying out one of E or Daley and replacing them with a younger off-the-radar guy in a similar spot as Bowey via trade or short-term deal would show a commitment to improvement/competition on the blue line without hamstringing the future much. The Wings have so many picks this year/next that it might be worthwhile to skip the line on a couple years of development and buy a pretty good AHL prospect from a team with a logjam instead of hoping one of the current crop suddenly leaps over their projection by a mile. Signing an older forward (under 35 though) with playoff experience to a short-term deal to balance the roster/hedge for a draft pick is also likely/probably good in my mind. I like Svech, and want him to get a chance and succeed, but I don’t want the team banking on it, or to have to see more Turgeon-esque players in the lineup due to injury. I wouldn’t resign Frk, as I think the Wings can use the cabana to actually rotate in developmental guys next year, and could let two of Svech, DLR, Turgeon, or Hirose battle it out in practice and in games to decide who stays long term. All the other moves you suggest I’m on board with, but I really do think a little spice in the offseason is needed, even just to wake up the locker room a little bit.

Posted  by toazmark05  on Apr 17, 2019 | 8:05 AM

Quote

It's common enough to be closer to 50%

The point is I can’t pencil a guy with 9 games and another with 10 games into my top 6. That is a recipe for failure.

[Hirose and Zadina] are fine on the 3rd line. So if they start on the 3rd line how do we fill out a 2nd line opening night/weeks/month etc?

AA Helm Abby. Hard pass
AA Ras Vet Pass again

We have 4 top six forwards for 6 spots. Hoping 2 10 games or less guys or junior hockey guys are simply going to fit; is a terrible strategy IMO.

I ask for one UFA or trade for a top six guy. The sixth can still be one of these kids.

Posted  by MidlandWingsFan74  on Apr 17, 2019 | 2:25 PM

Quote

What kind of failure is it a recipe for?

I just want to confirm that you think doing that (and the expecation that both Zadina and Hirose continue to get caved possession-wise in these top six minutes) is worse for their development or is worse for the Red Wings winning games?

I can see Prashanth’s overall point that letting the team be pretty much as bad next year (and probably even a little worse) is still fine.

I know you stated elsewhere below that your main concern seems to be that another losing season for the core we have developing right now is too much risk for you to take, but that’s kind of what I want to confirm we’re working at here, because I think giving both of those guys a legit shot at the top six and letting them essentially fall up and down the lineup as their development warrants is good for the development of the team, but is also very likely detrimental to the ability to win consistently enough to become a bubble team during the 2019-20 campaign.

I don’t necessarily mind being a bubble team in the upcoming year, but that is a LOT of risk for me because I worry about doing so creating a situation where the Wings are too tempted to buy assets too early and end up overpsending to come up just short, which could trigger a necessary reset on the rebuild (i.e. we become Buffalo)

I absolutely don’t mind the concept of adding a bonafide top-six guy to help solidify things and to teach the kids, but I’m worried that it’s not possible to get such a player on the term I would want him for (one year). They tried that with Vanek and the risk of that is you might end up with Thomas Vanek. I’d love to add Jordan Eberle, but I can’t commit to the risk of giving him the multi-year high-paying deal it would take to entice him to come to Detroit.

I’m at the point where I almost wouldn’t mind Detroit doing something you basically don’t see anymore and trying their hand at giving out a one-year deal to a UFA that’s wildly out-of-sync with the kinds of deals that get signed right now (basically paying the extra premium for the added risk the UFA is taking on by signing for only one year). Give Eberle a $14M deal for one year. If things go great from there, you’re on the inside track to commit to a more market-sane multi-year extension or you’re in position to eat half of that overpayment and trade him to a contender at the deadline.

Posted  by J.J. from Kansas  on Apr 17, 2019 | 2:55 PM

Quote

I believe

You can’t have a core losing for 4, 5 and 6 years; otherwise they are Buffalo or at the very least require members of it to be moved (ie Duchene and Hall (bad deal notwithstanding)) Guys get complacent losing year after year with the same guys around them IMO.

Larks, Mantha and AA are already 3 mostly full seasons of losing together. I don’t believe these guys will have the fire to make a difference if next year starts with this years roster. I would assume they are smart enough to realize the current roster would need near perfect circumstances (ie health and upticks for all) to grab a playoff spot. To me that is not how we keep them engaged and getting better. They need help. Gifting guys top six roles is not the way to give it to them IMO.

Boils down to (IMO at least). If we want the current new core to ever win (Larks, AA, Mantha, Bert) then we can’t expect to make them wait another two seasons to even sniff a chance at a playoff spot. If we want to start at ground Zadina; thats fine too. We should start shopping the current new core then as I think we will lose some of them (mentally or actually (ie AA is a UFA in two years)) if its just suck and pray for the lottery yet again.

I agree guys should have shots to get into the top 6. Going after one 28-30 yr old UFA won’t stop that. One spot by default is open; injuries could open another and certainly a guy like Bert might not hang in the top six over the long term. The one UFA will help stabilize the top six and not leave so much to just plain hope that guys are ready to step in right away.

I agree we shouldn’t buy a pile of assets. Ride out our issues on D and find our Eric Staal (3 years) and not all the Nielsens, Backes etc from a few years back. It can be done.

We have been RHS deficient for years so I could easily commit to 6 million and 4 years for Eberle (if he would come for that). Everyone knew Vanek was on a big down slide. Eberle has been playing for a D loving Isles team. He had decent upside and is not glacially slow like Vanek so he can keep up to our guys. Also Green is down to one year. I wouldn’t be spending 5 million on him again so the remaining years of Eberle are covered.

I love the idea of a 1 year huge dollar deal.

In the end I want my core to not think we are just waiting for the next core. That feels like what a team like Buffalo does where every year is "we’ll be better next year" without the effort to do it. Skinner is Buffalo this year was really a deadline deal signing. They just couldn’t follow through after the hot start.

Posted  by MidlandWingsFan74  on Apr 17, 2019 | 3:26 PM

(Note: I am not any of these people.)

The idea of an enormous one-year UFA deal is intriguing. I suppose that could be classified as an "outside the box" move, no?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 minutes ago, Dabura said:

A good read:

Rebuilding the Red Wings - My Approach To The 2019 Offseason [Winging It In Motown]

tl;dr This team isn't a Connor McDavid away from being a truly solid playoff team, so management should hold off on making any big moves until 2020-21. Embrace the suck for one more season.

There are some good discussions in the comment section of this piece...

(Note: I am not any of these people.)

The idea of an enormous one-year UFA deal is intriguing. I suppose that could be classified as an "outside the box" move, no?

I don't like WIIM and I refuse to read this

[Dabura 12,207]

13 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I don't like WIIM and I refuse to read this

I hear ya. I'm generally not a fan of WIIM or SB Nation, but I feel Iyer's done some good work here. Also, news is slow and the Wings are a total nonentity in the rumor mill right now, so I'll take what I can get.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Dabura

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

26 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I hear ya. I'm generally not a fan of WIIM or SB Nation, but I feel Iyer's done some good work here. Also, news is slow and the Wings are a total nonentity in the rumor mill right now, so I'll take what I can get.

Alright I read this

I definitely agree that with the emergence of Larkin/Bertuzzi/Mantha/AA as a young forward core we need to start turning this ship around. Not that we need to win the cup or even make the playoffs, but we need to make serious strides in a positive direction. Like flirt with the playoffs and maybe finish in the 10 to 15 pick range. If we don't we risk turning these kids into Sabres type losers.

I think management knows this too, I think they've known it longer than we have realized it. Hence the Holland Devellano comments about accelerating this ***** this coming off season with bigger moves.

$14 million for 1 year of Eberle is completed retarded and JJ from Kansas is a stupid retard and always has been

I think the Red Wings should make a strong play for a strong Dman like we say every year. Whether that's Trouba, Karlsson, someone up and coming, I don't care.

I'll get chewed up for this, but If we are going to sign forwards I'd like to see us sign someone older who won't cost much, that can lead by example for the young forward core. Something like a Todd Bertuzzi or Jaromir Jagr was in the recent past. Basically a dad. Unfortunately there isn't much out there for this. Maybe Joe Thornton? Maybe Justin Williams?

That being said, I'd still want kids playing the heavy minutes. I don't want vets playing on top of them so to speak. Maybe get a few "two kids and an old goat line" going.

I get the feeling though that the Red Wings will combine the need for leaders and Dmen and just sign Kronwall again.

 

 

Edited April 17, 2019 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[Dabura 12,207]

10 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Alright I read this

I definitely agree that with the emergence of Larkin/Bertuzzi/Mantha/AA as a young forward core we need to start turning this ship around. Not that we need to win the cup or even make the playoffs, but we need to make serious strides in a positive direction. Like flirt with the playoffs and maybe finish in the 10 to 15 pick range. If we don't we risk turn these kids into Sabres type losers.

I think management knows this too, I think they've known it longer than we have realized it. Hence the Holland Devellano comments about accelerating this ***** this coming off season with bigger moves.

$14 million for 1 year of Eberle is completed retarded and JJ from Kansas is a stupid retard and always has been

I think the Red Wings should make a strong play for a strong Dman like we say every year. Whether that's Trouba, Karlsson, someone up and coming, I don't care.

I'll get chewed up for this, but If we are going to sign forwards I'd like to see us sign someone older who won't cost much, that can lead by example for the young forward core. Something like a Todd Bertuzzi or Jaromir Jagr was in the recent past. Basically a dad. Unfortunately there isn't much out there for this. Maybe Joe Thornton? Maybe Justin Williams?

I get the feeling though that the Red Wings will combine the need for leaders and Dmen and just sign Kronwall again.

I like Eberle for the right-hand shot, but I feel like he's basically Nyquist.

In terms of dad guys...I guess there's Spezza...? meh.

I'm having a really tough time identifying a plausible path to the 2020 playoffs. It sucks. I want to speculate and rosterbate and trust that Holland has something up his sleeve, but I'm starting to think we're in for another season of spinning our wheels, because there really isn't anything else we can do that makes a ton of sense. The team will continue to get younger, which is good, and there'll be a questionable UFA signing or two, and that'll probably be it.

I've joked about Derick Brassard and Tyler Myers being *chef kiss* Holland targets. If we can NOT sign those guys, I would consider that a big win.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Dabura

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, Dabura said:

I like Eberle for the right-hand shot, but I feel like he's basically Nyquist.

In terms of dad guys...I guess there's Spezza...? meh.

I'm having a really tough time identifying a plausible path to the 2020 playoffs. It sucks. I want to speculate and rosterbate and trust that Holland has something up his sleeve, but I'm starting to think we're in for another season of spinning our wheels, because there really isn't anything else we can do that makes a ton of sense. The team will continue to get younger, which is good, and there'll be a questionable UFA signing or two, and that'll probably be it.

I've joked about Derrick Brassard and Tyler Myers being *chef kiss* Holland targets. If we can NOT sign those guys, I would consider that a big win.

If I was Holland I'd make no moves July 1. I'd wait two weeks to even a month depending on the market is like, then I'd scoop up someone leftover for cheap. Like after all the teams have made their moves but there's still a pretty well known guy out there. Sorta like how Toronto got Tyler Ennis, although Ennis is weird example. Then I'd hunt the waiver wire going into the season.

I just doubt Holland or Yzerman or ownership would approve that plan.

[Dabura 12,207]

2 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

If I was Holland I'd make no moves July 1. I'd wait two weeks to even a month depending on the market is like, then I'd scoop up someone leftover for cheap. Like after all the teams have made their moves but there's still a pretty well known guy out there. Sorta like how Toronto got Tyler Ennis, although Ennis is weird example. Then I'd hunt the waiver wire going into the season.

I just doubt Holland or Yzerman or ownership would approve that plan.

Any appetite for a Kasperi Kapanen trade?

[LeftWinger 4,951]

I kind of like the 1 year huge salary idea, BUT I'd rather throw the $14M at Matt Duchene than Eberle or maybe Panarin.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I kind of like the 1 year huge salary idea, BUT I'd rather throw the $14M at Matt Duchene than Eberle or maybe Panarin.

Not to get on you, cause it's JJ from dumbstown's idea, but this is one of those moves that appeals heavily to fans but is just completely unrealistic in real life.

First, it's situationly unlikely. Teams not going for it all, shouldn't be overpaying players, they should be building a base of smart contracts to build on, and hopefully saving their owner a bit cash during this time. And teams who are going for it rarely ever have that amount of cap to spend.

Secondly, it's financially dumb.This is technically a $6 million dollar player right now on paper, and he played this season like a $3-4 dollar player. And you wanna pay him $14 million? A possible overvaluation of $10 million? Yikes. What if he gets injured? What if he misses 30 games? 40? 50 games? What if you can't re-sign him and he wants to move on? What if scores 37 pts again? Fired Fired Fired. Congrats you just pissed away $10 million of your owners money on one contract. It's one thing to pay a guy $2 million on a one year and he only ends up playing like a $1 million dollar guy. But that's a pretty reasonable risk in this sport/business I feel. $14 million on Jordan Eberle is bonkers to me though. I think you could forward a decent argument for doing this on Karlsson (I still wouldn't agree) but not on Eberle.

Thirdly, what's that lockerroom like? You have a guy who may end up on your third line getting paid over double your biggest star, leader, and (probably) soon to be captain. It's gotta be weird. Imagine at your job your co-worker who does the same job, but pulls a quarter of the load you do, but he's gonna make over double what you make this year. Now consider youere the leader/foreman of your team and this guy is underneath you. Gotta be weird. Has to upset the structure. Especially off the ice. Sean Avery told a story on a podcast where the entire Wings team went out for rookie night (a yearly tradition) where all the rookies have to foot the bill. Well it ends up getting out the control and the bill becomes absolutely massive, way beyond what someone like you or me could afford. So the rookies realize they can't pay this thing, at least not without wire transfers and seriously hurting themselves financially, so Lidstrom just picked up the bill and everything was good. Never spoke of it again, no questions asked. Things had gotten crazy that year so Lids just ate it. That story struck me in a weird way as good leadership. Papa Lidstrom knew things had gone way past where they should go so he covered for his rookies. Mad respect earned. That's why you pay your leaders more. These kids certainly make a lot of money, but you still want them to look at Lid's house n his cars n his wife and the money he's able to easily throw around, and say damn if I keep workin' I could be like this guy. He's got it figured out.

Lastly, it's a 40 - 60 pt winger were talking here. He scored 37 this year. Just no. I would fire you before the contract is signed if I were the owner.

TLDR: This is an xbox EA games armchair GM in a vacuum with no real world repercussions type deal.

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

Any appetite for a Kasperi Kapanen trade?

I really don't know much about him. He's been traded multiple times already right? That spooks me.

EDIT: 44 pts for a 22 year old and former 1st rounder. On paper looks good. I honestly didn't watch one Leafs game this season, would they even trade him to us?

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[chaps80 1,591]

"AA MUST STAY!"

[Dabura 12,207]

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I really don't know much about him. He's been traded multiple times already right? That spooks me.

EDIT: 44 pts for a 22 year old and former 1st rounder. On paper looks good. I honestly didn't watch one Leafs game this season, would they even trade him to us?

He was a central piece in the Kessel trade. My understanding is moving him was strictly business; Pens wanted a big gun and he was part of the price they had to pay. Seems like he could be the odd man out in the Leafs' looming cap crunch, which is kind of a shame because he's already a pretty good top-six scoring winger and I feel he's capable of being as good as Panarin. At worst, he's Tatar.

In a vacuum, I think he makes perfect sense for the Wings. The right age (a week older than Larkin), can step in immediately, right-handed shot, natural goal-scorer who could become lethal on the PP.

Not sure what the ask would be. If he's getting moved, it's as a cap dump...so I'm tempted to say a pick and/or a prospect might be enough. Or maybe we offer-sheet him...? If Dubas doesn't want to trade him within the division, an offer-sheet would be the only way we could land him. Maybe it would be worth it, maybe not.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 minutes ago, Dabura said:

He was a central piece in the Kessel trade. My understanding is moving him was strictly business; Pens wanted a big gun and he was part of the price they had to pay. Seems like he could be the odd man out in the Leafs' looming cap crunch, which is kind of a shame because he's already a pretty good top-six scoring winger and I feel he's capable of being as good as Panarin. At worst, he's Tatar.

In a vacuum, I think he makes perfect sense for the Wings. The right age (a week older than Larkin), can step in immediately, right-handed shot, natural goal-scorer who could become lethal on the PP.

Not sure what the ask would be. If he's getting moved, it's as a cap dump...so I'm tempted to say a pick and/or a prospect might be enough. Or maybe we offer-sheet him...? If Dubas doesn't want to trade him within the division, an offer-sheet would be the only way we could land him. Maybe it would be worth it, maybe not.

I'm all for wild moves this year. Offer sheet him. f*** it.

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 hours ago, Dabura said:

A good read:

Rebuilding the Red Wings - My Approach To The 2019 Offseason [Winging It In Motown]

I agree with pretty much everything Iyer says in this article except for (again), I think we should utilize the buyout on one of Daley or Ericsson this offseason. The savings this season, as well as the extra roster spot is more than worth the extra year of the contract at less than a mil. I think we should be making room for all three of Hronek, Cholowski and Bowey in the top six, to go along with Green, DeKeyser and Ericsson / Daley.

I agree that Byram and Cozens should be our main targets if they're available at 6.

I agree that we should let Kronwall and Vanek walk.

I agree that we should stay away from any and all free agents.

I agree that we should stay away from offer sheets.

I agree that we should utilize our extra cap space to take on a bad contract to acquire assets.

I even for the most part agree with his 2019-20 lines and pairings... just move Bowey in for Daley.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I agree with pretty much everything Iyer says in this article except for (again), I think we should utilize the buyout on one of Daley or Ericsson this offseason. The savings this season, as well as the extra roster spot is more than worth the extra year of the contract at less than a mil. I think we should be making room for all three of Hronek, Cholowski and Bowey in the top six, to go along with Green, DeKeyser and Ericsson / Daley.

I agree that Byram and Cozens should be our main targets if they're available at 6.

I agree that we should let Kronwall and Vanek walk.

I agree that we should stay away from any and all free agents.

I agree that we should stay away from offer sheets.

I agree that we should utilize our extra cap space to take on a bad contract to acquire assets.

I even for the most part agree with his 2019-20 lines and pairings... just move Bowey in for Daley.

gots to have a token black guy tsk tsk

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 hours ago, Dabura said:

Any appetite for a Kasperi Kapanen trade?

Absolutely. I've liked Kapanen for a couple years now. Kapanen > Nylander IMHO...

He'd be a great addition to the Red Wings young forward corps. Right-handed shot as well. The Leafs may have trouble signing him this summer as well. Not sure what it would take to get him, but I'd definitely kick the tires on him.