2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread, Pt. 2 - What's the Yzerplan?

[mackel 681]

6 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I'd do that trade in a heartbeat. That was my original trade proposal a few weeks ago. Some thought Tampa wouldn't part with a 1st round pick. Now people are saying that Raddysh wouldn't be enough...

I still think Raddysh has top six upside, but he may top out as a 3rd line winger. But you still need those guys, and that 2nd round pick would be exactly that, a gamble. Again, I take the sure thing, but that's just me.

I'm high on Hronek, Cholowski and McIsaac, but I still think we need to add another top pair defenseman to that group. The only one that has Trouba level upside in my opinion, is Hronek. I'm okay with waiting it out, but I'd also be okay with going after him in a trade, depending on what we'd have to give up.

If Byram somehow falls to us, that would be amazing. I just don't see any possibility of that happening...

If Byram is available at #4 you have to try and trade up IMHO. #6 plus a prospect, 2nd rounder something...

[krsmith17 7,191]

22 minutes ago, mackel said:

If Byram is available at #4 you have to try and trade up IMHO. #6 plus a prospect, 2nd rounder something...

I'm never really in favor of trading up in the draft, but especially in one that is as deep as this one. I want Byram, like pretty much every Red Wings fan, but I'd also be more than okay with any number of other high end prospects at 6. I say stay at 6, hope Byram somehow falls to us (the way our boy, Zadina did last year ), and if not, take the best center available. Cozens, Turcotte, Zegras or Dach...

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

2 hours ago, mackel said:

If Byram is available at #4 you have to try and trade up IMHO. #6 plus a prospect, 2nd rounder something...

He wont be.  Earmarked for Chi.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

9 hours ago, F.Michael said:

As CRL pointed out that when taking Trouba's negotiations/contracts into account - he apparently does not want to stay in Winnipeg...My only concern is how much more 'mileage' will get added to his odometer when he becomes a UFA?

Karlsson 2 years ago was every GMs wet dream...Not so much anymore, but I'm certain 2, or 3 will offer him exactly what he wants...Then in a few years they'll regret that signing.

Meh I may be in the minority on this one, but I think Karlsson will hold up fine. I wouldn't be afraid to sign him.

In regards to Trouba, I'd rather gamble that he wants to hit UFA to decide his fate. It kinda seems like it'll it happen with this player. I aslo get the strong feeling he wants to be back in Michigan. Some old friends of mine knew him when he was in highschool in Rochester MI and always said he was super close with family and especially his mom. I have the feeling this kid has his eyes set on the Red Wings and returning home at some point in his career.

6 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Winnipeg can't ask for a player who is going to demand $6M in a year. They need to re-sign Myers and Laine will get Eichel money. They need a player or players on ELC's that, when due, will more than likely sign a nice bridge deal. Rasmussen, Saarjarvi, Lindstrom, etc...

I'd gladly trade Ras, Lindstrom, pick for Trouba....

....but now who do I trade to EDM for RNH?

Mantha and AA will both get $5M-$6M next contract, and we can afford to pay them that, even with giving Trouba $8M, so no need to trade them.

Meh I don't really have any interest in RNH. I'd rather lean on AA/Veleno/Ras at C than trade for him. He didn't get more than 25 pts in the last 3 seasons not counting this one. This one he had 41. He's really not that good. Mantha is by far the better player.

4 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Rasmusssen needs to get his PENIS up, or he will be traded.

Lmao I forgot about this

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm never really in favor of trading up in the draft, but especially in one that is as deep as this one. I want Byram, like pretty much every Red Wings fan, but I'd also be more than okay with any number of other high end prospects at 6. I say stay at 6, hope Byram somehow falls to us (the way our boy, Zadina did last year ), and if not, take the best center available. Cozens, Turcotte, Zegras or Dach...

Yeah I want Byram, but not trading up level want. There's other good players out there if we dont get him.

10 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

A 25 yo RH top pair D is exactly the kind of player a rebuilding team acquires. I would rather have that than a bunch of 18 yo D prospects who may not turn out.

If Winnipeg is looking for top 4 D in return, than the Wings dont have that. I dont know why that would be a demand when a team trading for Trouba more than likely has a D need already. 

If the Wings want him, they're probably going to have to overpay on the Forward side. I would be ok with trading Moose, but I think the Jets will be wanting one of Hronek, Cholowski, or McIsaac included in that deal. I would rather see Yzerman go high with his F offer (AA) , and include a lesser D prospect going back.

Let him hit FA, then sign him.

[Akakabuto 1,750]

8 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Rasmusssen needs to get his PENIS up, or he will be traded.

On this subject; any news on Larkins ballsac arrest?

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

In regards to Trouba, I'd rather gamble that he wants to hit UFA to decide his fate. It kinda seems like it'll it happen with this player. I aslo get the strong feeling he wants to be back in Michigan. Some old friends of mine knew him when he was in highschool in Rochester MI and always said he was super close with family and especially his mom. I have the feeling this kid has his eyes set on the Red Wings and returning home at some point in his career.

This isn't the first time I've seen you mention this. I hope you're right. And like nyqitf mentioned, Yzerman may also have a good idea of where his head is at. Not that I think he's spoken to him directly, but I'm sure a lot of people deep in the hockey circles have a much better idea of what's going on with all of these players (pending free agents) than most of us average fans do. Trouba would be a HUGE add, and getting him for free (giving up no assets) would be massive for the rebuild.

5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Meh I don't really have any interest in RNH. I'd rather lean on AA/Veleno/Ras at C than trade for him. He didn't get more than 25 pts in the last 3 seasons not counting this one. This one he had 41. He's really not that good. Mantha is by far the better player.

I agree. I'd prefer to wait and see what we have in Athanasiou and Veleno (I think Rasmussen is better suited as a winger), rather than give up the assets to acquire Nugent-Hopkins. However, you're way off on your stats. You're looking at his assist totals, not points. He's actually been a 55-65 point center for most of his career, aside from two down years (2015-2017). That's a high, high end 2C, which is what we would hope Veleno could become some day. I think he can, but I've been wrong before...

EDIT: I would consider trading Athanasiou or Rasmussen in a package for Nugent-Hopkins, but not Mantha... But again, the price would likely be too high in any RNH trade scenario...

Edited May 24, 2019 by krsmith17

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

This isn't the first time I've seen you mention this. I hope you're right. And like nyqitf mentioned, Yzerman may also have a good idea of where his head is at. Not that I think he's spoken to him directly, but I'm sure a lot of people deep in the hockey circles have a much better idea of what's going on with all of these players (pending free agents) than most of us average fans do. Trouba would be a HUGE add, and getting him for free (giving up no assets) would be massive for the rebuild.

I agree. I'd prefer to wait and see what we have in Athanasiou and Veleno (I think Rasmussen is better suited as a winger), rather than give up the assets to acquire Nugent-Hopkins. However, you're way off on your stats. You're looking at his assist totals, not points. He's actually been a 55-65 point center for most of his career, aside from two down years (2015-2017). That's a high, high end 2C, which is what we would hope Veleno could become some day. I think he can, but I've been wrong before...

EDIT: I would consider trading Athanasiou or Rasmussen in a package for Nugent-Hopkins, but not Mantha... But again, the price would likely be too high in any RNH trade scenario...

Gotta keep the faith in veleno man , been cautious with him but I’m hoping he proves me wrong and becomes a 2c , i haven’t seen too many ppl on the podkolzin wagon but in my head I’m thinking in 3 yrs ....

bertuzzi larkin mantha

zadina veleno podkolzin

thats gotta be one of the best top 6 in the league in 5 years right ? Haha , as for AA I do think it’s a matter of time before he’s moved there just won’t be enough spots if these kids all start developing and god knows who else we get right? I’m high on beecher personally so if we somehow got him with our second pick we’d have Larkin veleno beecher for the future you would think 100% AA gets moved for a dman so I’m hoping he goes for another 25-35 goal season cause if we decide to trade him he would fetch us a high return 

just imagine on trade deadline day to a cup contending team?a kid who will be an rfa with big numbers can probably fetch us a top d prospect and a 1st? Then it also helps us be less better and land a lafraniere or Raymond , a top 5 pick in 2020 

i just think sooner or later of it all progresses right we might have to move people like AA and svechnikov(still think he can be a 20- 25 goal guy time will tell)

AA + svechnikov for bean and a 1st would be aces 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

On this subject; any news on Larkins ballsac arrest?

Out for the rest of the tourney but will be fine

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

This isn't the first time I've seen you mention this. I hope you're right. And like nyqitf mentioned, Yzerman may also have a good idea of where his head is at. Not that I think he's spoken to him directly, but I'm sure a lot of people deep in the hockey circles have a much better idea of what's going on with all of these players (pending free agents) than most of us average fans do. Trouba would be a HUGE add, and getting him for free (giving up no assets) would be massive for the rebuild.

I agree. I'd prefer to wait and see what we have in Athanasiou and Veleno (I think Rasmussen is better suited as a winger), rather than give up the assets to acquire Nugent-Hopkins. However, you're way off on your stats. You're looking at his assist totals, not points. He's actually been a 55-65 point center for most of his career, aside from two down years (2015-2017). That's a high, high end 2C, which is what we would hope Veleno could become some day. I think he can, but I've been wrong before...

EDIT: I would consider trading Athanasiou or Rasmussen in a package for Nugent-Hopkins, but not Mantha... But again, the price would likely be too high in any RNH trade scenario...

Whoops!

[Dabura 12,207]

On 5/23/2019 at 7:27 AM, krsmith17 said:

Care to explain this one? Of all the possible trade scenarios floating around, this one makes the most sense for us (and Tampa) in my opinion. I'm not sure exactly what such a trade would look like, but acquiring Callahan makes a ton of sense. Yzerman helps out his old team by taking a bad contract for one year, and continues to acquire key assets for his rebuilding Wings.

I don't know that the Bolts give us a key asset for taking on Callahan. I mean, it's certainly possible. But I've been conditioned to assume the worst in these matters.

[Dabura 12,207]

On 5/23/2019 at 9:40 PM, krsmith17 said:

I'm never really in favor of trading up in the draft, but especially in one that is as deep as this one. I want Byram, like pretty much every Red Wings fan, but I'd also be more than okay with any number of other high end prospects at 6. I say stay at 6, hope Byram somehow falls to us (the way our boy, Zadina did last year ), and if not, take the best center available. Cozens, Turcotte, Zegras or Dach...

Yeah, this is pretty much where I'm at.

I love Byram. But, if I'm being honest, I dunno that I love him much more than I love [insert any number of other guys in that 3-12 range]. He's an elite D prospect and we do desperately need an elite NHL defenseman, so in that sense he stands above the rest. But defensemen truly are voodoo and I do feel there's something to the notion that Byram isn't quite Heiskanen-tier, let alone Dahlin-tier. (Granted, I totally slept on Heiskanen in his draft year, so I guess I don't have much room to talk.)

I dunno that I'd want to be the team that takes a defenseman in the top five in this center-heavy draft.

[Dabura 12,207]

On 5/24/2019 at 9:24 AM, nyqvististhefuture said:

Gotta keep the faith in veleno man , been cautious with him but I’m hoping he proves me wrong and becomes a 2c , i haven’t seen too many ppl on the podkolzin wagon but in my head I’m thinking in 3 yrs ....

bertuzzi larkin mantha

zadina veleno podkolzin

This is why I'm feeling pretty optimistic about the future and it's why I don't feel there's a pressing need to move AA or Mantha at this time. I live for s*** that makes me laugh maniacally and nothing in hockey makes me laugh as maniacally as overwhelming forward depth does.

There's a saying that you'll see obsessive Oilers fans throw around online: "Get good players. Keep good players." That's how you build the foundation for a perennial powerhouse. Don't worry too much about perceived positional need until that need has directly led to your defeat in a best-of-seven series. Don't trade Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson. Don't place an arbitrary limit on how many 30-goal scorers you're going to allow yourself to carry.

We're getting an elite forward prospect next month. Let's say that player is Dylan Cozens. All of a sudden, with just that one addition, we've got a guy whose floor is a solid 2C and whose ceiling is a better-than-Larkin 1C. All of a sudden, with just that one addition, the idea that Bertuzzi-Larkin-Mantha will be our top line a couple of years from now seems almost quaint. All of a sudden, there's a bit less pressure on every single player in the system to overachieve and become a total stud.

There's strength in numbers. This, in theory, is strength in numbers:

Athanasiou
Bertuzzi
Cozens
Larkin
Mantha
Rasmussen
Veleno
Zadina

Now, granted, the salary cap system means that even if we could get this group together on the Wings roster, it probably wouldn't last for more than a season or two. But I say you cross that bridge when you come to it. Maybe something falls into your lap on your way to that point and you end up trading AA for a Brett Pesce. Cool. Do that. I'm just saying I think the default mindset should be "Patience, patience, patience. Hoard, hoard, hoard."

Edited May 25, 2019 by Dabura

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

I don't know that the Bolts give us a key asset for taking on Callahan. I mean, it's certainly possible. But I've been conditioned to assume the worst in these matters.

You said "it doesn't make much sense for us" though. It wouldn't need to be a "key" asset coming back, just an asset. I'm sure Tampa would / will give up a 2nd round pick (at the very least) to get rid of the final year of Callahan's contract.

I think it's only a matter of time before Callahan is traded. I just hope Yzerman is calling his old buddy BriseBois to see if they can work out a deal...

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

Yeah, this is pretty much where I'm at.

I love Byram. But, if I'm being honest, I dunno that I love him much more than I love [insert any number of other guys in that 3-12 range]. He's an elite D prospect and we do desperately need an elite NHL defenseman, so in that sense he stands above the rest. But defensemen truly are voodoo and I do feel there's something to the notion that Byram isn't quite Heiskanen-tier, let alone Dahlin-tier. (Granted, I totally slept on Heiskanen in his draft year, so I guess I don't have much room to talk.)

I dunno that I'd want to be the team that takes a defenseman in the top five in this center-heavy draft.

I definitely like Byram over any of the forwards that could be available to us at 6, but not enough to trade up and give key assets to a team like Chicago or Colorado... Byram man never be a Heiskanen or Dahlin level player, but I do think he has legit 1D potential, more in the mold of a Morgan Rielly...

I'd love to be the team that take Byram is this center-heavy draft...

[Dabura 12,207]

You said "it doesn't make much sense for us" though. It wouldn't need to be a "key" asset coming back, just an asset. I'm sure Tampa would / will give up a 2nd round pick (at the very least) to get rid of the final year of Callahan's contract.

I think it's only a matter of time before Callahan is traded. I just hope Yzerman is calling his old buddy BriseBois to see if they can work out a deal...

I said Callahan *probably* doesn't make much sense for us. That's assuming we're not getting a 1st or Foote or Raddysh. I get that getting any assets in return for taking on a salary dump for one year is usually going to be considered a win, but I still wonder if that $5.8M in cap space wouldn't be worth more to us this season than, say, Tampa's 2020 2nd.

Cap flexibility hasn't really been a thing in Wings World for a long time. I guess I see the potential for a ton of cap flexibility in the upcoming season and I feel like Yzerman could really speed up this rebuild if he plays his cards right.That being said, maybe BriseBois gives him a prime asset and my concerns are rendered moot. Maybe we get Callahan + 2020 2nd and then we flip Callahan for another 2nd around the trade deadline, which could be a big win.

21 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You said "it doesn't make much sense for us" though. It wouldn't need to be a "key" asset coming back, just an asset. I'm sure Tampa would / will give up a 2nd round pick (at the very least) to get rid of the final year of Callahan's contract.

I think it's only a matter of time before Callahan is traded. I just hope Yzerman is calling his old buddy BriseBois to see if they can work out a deal...

I definitely like Byram over any of the forwards that could be available to us at 6, but not enough to trade up and give key assets to a team like Chicago or Colorado... Byram man never be a Heiskanen or Dahlin level player, but I do think he has legit 1D potential, more in the mold of a Morgan Rielly...

I'd love to be the team that take Byram is this center-heavy draft...

Fair enough. I'd take him at 6. But I don't think I'd trade up for him (unless it's a comfy deal) and I'm not sure he'd be the clear-cut best choice at 3 or 4 or even 5. I love his game. I love the numbers he's put up this season. I love that he's younger than most of his peers. But, knowing what we know about defensemen, I think there's a certain degree of risk there that's maybe a bit higher than it is with a top-rated forward.

[mackel 681]

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

I said Callahan *probably* doesn't make much sense for us. That's assuming we're not getting a 1st or Foote or Raddysh. I get that getting any assets in return for taking on a salary dump for one year is usually going to be considered a win, but I still wonder if that $5.8M in cap space wouldn't be worth more to us this season than, say, Tampa's 2020 2nd.

Cap flexibility hasn't really been a thing in Wings World for a long time. I guess I see the potential for a ton of cap flexibility in the upcoming season and I feel like Yzerman could really speed up this rebuild if he plays his cards right.That being said, maybe BriseBois gives him a prime asset and my concerns are rendered moot. Maybe we get Callahan + 2020 2nd and then we flip Callahan for another 2nd around the trade deadline, which could be a big win.

Fair enough. I'd take him at 6. But I don't think I'd trade up for him (unless it's a comfy deal) and I'm not sure he'd be the clear-cut best choice at 3 or 4 or even 5. I love his game. I love the numbers he's put up this season. I love that he's younger than most of his peers. But, knowing what we know about defensemen, I think there's a certain degree of risk there that's maybe a bit higher than it is with a top-rated forward.

I'd not go nuts but I would certainly explore trading up.... 6th and our second rounder this year or possibly 6th and our 2nd this year and next year.  I'd pay that price.

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

I said Callahan *probably* doesn't make much sense for us. That's assuming we're not getting a 1st or Foote or Raddysh. I get that getting any assets in return for taking on a salary dump for one year is usually going to be considered a win, but I still wonder if that $5.8M in cap space wouldn't be worth more to us this season than, say, Tampa's 2020 2nd.

Cap flexibility hasn't really been a thing in Wings World for a long time. I guess I see the potential for a ton of cap flexibility in the upcoming season and I feel like Yzerman could really speed up this rebuild if he plays his cards right.That being said, maybe BriseBois gives him a prime asset and my concerns are rendered moot. Maybe we get Callahan + 2020 2nd and then we flip Callahan for another 2nd around the trade deadline, which could be a big win.

I just think that our cap flexibility would be best utilized on a cap dump, picking up extra assets. I'd personally rather take on one season of a bad contract, than go after any of the available free agents. The only reason I can think that we might need some extra cap space is if we trade for a big name player. And even then, I think we have more than enough cap space after trading for a Callahan, to acquire a player another player via trade.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I just think that our cap flexibility would be best utilized on a cap dump, picking up extra assets. I'd personally rather take on one season of a bad contract, than go after any of the available free agents. The only reason I can think that we might need some extra cap space is if we trade for a big name player. And even then, I think we have more than enough cap space after trading for a Callahan, to acquire a player another player via trade.

God I’d be picking up Callahan and eating his salary and trading him right away if it were possible (I don’t think right now he’d waive to come here but who’s to sa we can’t facilitate a trade and pick up 2-3 draft picks in the process )

same with marleau or someone else , what’s the point of having all this cap space , it’s good for the owners but for the team if we can add 2,3,4,5 picks , whatever for guys who won’t even play for the wings,or barely play for one season it shouldn’t even be something to think about 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

 

https://t.co/gsNZL6b9JG?amp=1

 

thought all those rumours had ended and he was going back to his own home town?

anyone have access to the full article?

Edited May 26, 2019 by nyqvististhefuture

[LeftWinger 4,959]

36 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

 

https://t.co/gsNZL6b9JG?amp=1

 

thought all those rumours had ended and he was going back to his own home town?

anyone have access to the full article?

He'll be signed here for 1 season to put butts in the seats. All depends on money.

1 hour ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

God I’d be picking up Callahan and eating his salary and trading him right away if it were possible (I don’t think right now he’d waive to come here but who’s to sa we can’t facilitate a trade and pick up 2-3 draft picks in the process )

same with marleau or someone else , what’s the point of having all this cap space , it’s good for the owners but for the team if we can add 2,3,4,5 picks , whatever for guys who won’t even play for the wings,or barely play for one season it shouldn’t even be something to think about 

Absorb all the cap you can in order to obtain tons of picks. I'd take Callahan and Marleau if it meant getting multiple picks at this draft. 2nds galore! (No 2nd for Tampa, so I'll take that 2020 1st.) Of course have to clear roster spots.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

8 hours ago, Dabura said:

I'm just saying I think the default mindset should be "Patience, patience, patience. Hoard, hoard, hoard."

In regards to Callahan, the more I think about it, the more I think we might get out of Tampa.

Think about our Datsyuk trade. If we didn't move Datsyuk's contract so what? We woulda been tied down for a season but ultimately we'd be fine after.

If Tampa doesn't move Callahan they are serious repercussions. Point is probably gone. Karlsson isn't an option. Meanwhile 3 defensive regulars need to be re-signed.

Stakes are much higher here. This will be the first real test of Brisebois. He absolutely must move that contract IMO if not more.... just let old buddy Stevie help you out like he helped Holland with Quincey...

Edited May 26, 2019 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[krsmith17 7,191]

Yzerman is going to trade for Callahan and Trouba this summer. It's just a question of which trade he pulls off first...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Yzerman is going to trade for Callahan Brayden Point and Trouba sign Karlsson this summer. It's just a question of which deal he pulls off first...

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

11 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Brayden Point

Karlsson

F*** that noise...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

F*** that noise...

You wouldn't be happy if?

[Akakabuto 1,750]

https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2019/05/nhl-trade-rumor-jacob-trouba-to-detroit.html?m=1

A 2nd and Kuffner. Done deal. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You wouldn't be happy if?

Hell No!

A trade for Point costs us what? Larkin, McIsaac and a pick? Or Mantha, Hronek and a pick? No thanks...

You know how I feel about Karlsson... Stay far away.

1 hour ago, Akakabuto said:

https://www.nhltraderumors.me/2019/05/nhl-trade-rumor-jacob-trouba-to-detroit.html?m=1

A 2nd and Kuffner. Done deal. 

 Who writes this s***?

"The Red Wings also have some prospects that interest the Winnipeg Jets. Ryan Kuffner is one player of interest along with Matt Puempel"

Why would we add a 2nd with those two stud prospects? Kuffner and Puempel for Trouba straight up. Jets get two high end prospects. Wings get a pending UFA defenseman. Seems fair to me...

Edited May 26, 2019 by krsmith17