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Official 2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread, Pt. 2 - What's the Yzerplan?

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59 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

That is pure speculation. All we know about Trouba's situation in Winnipeg is that they disagreed on his worth at the beginning of the 2016/17 season and he held out until he felt he was paid fairly. After that contract completed he became an RFA for 22 days and then re-signed with Winnipeg again on a 1 year deal.

None of that suggests he wants out of Winnipeg, only that he wants to be paid according to his own perceived value.

I can't remember where it came from, but a couple years ago there were some serious rumors stating that Trouba wanted to be closer to home. There's no place closer to home for Trouba than Detroit... Even you said, you know people that know Trouba that backed these rumors... Regardless, that's all they are at this point, so I'll leave it at that, but I do think he wants to play for the Red Wings.

59 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

In fact, if he was hell bent on leaving Winnipeg, he would've negotiated a 2 year deal last season and left the team as a UFA. But he didn't.

It takes two parties to negotiate a contract. I'm sure Trouba would have preferred a two year contract. Cheveldayoff wanted no part of a two year contract. And here we are...

59 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Trouba's recent interview in the Athletic also painted the picture of a guy pretty happy to be playing in Winnipeg (paywall).

What do you expect him to say? He hates Winnipeg and he's miserable there?

59 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

RFA control has significant value. Any team that trades for Trouba is basically guaranteed a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd if he decides to run off and sign elsewhere. And, if Trouba ends up signing for more than $8.2 that team would receive two 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd. And it's entirely possible he will sign for that much. He's a player who's proven he will hold out for the money he feels he's owed, and for comparison, Esa Lindell - a 30 pt Dman of the same age as Trouba - just signed for $5.8 AAV.

With that in mind, anyone wanting Trouba basically needs to offer the value of a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, plus more.

This simply isn't true. Winnipeg know that they have a one year window to trade Trouba or they potentially (likely) lose him for nothing. Every team in the league knows this. So, while they're not going to give him away, I don't think they'll get maximum return either.

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Here's a trade suggestion from Rangers fans:

To NYR:
Jacob Trouba

To Winnipeg:
Lias Andersson (first round pick), Brett Howden (first round pick), 1st round pick, 5th round pick

Here's another one I just found from Wings fans at WIIM:

To DET:
Jacob Trouba

To Winnipeg:
Joe Veleno, Jared McIssac, + picks

Here's another from Jet's fans:

To whomever:
Jacob Trouba

To Winnipeg:
Great prospect, so-so prospect, 1st round pick, pick after the 1st round

That's a lot of convincing evidence you have compiled there... Random fans armchair GM trades. My armchair GM trade was...

To DET: Jacob Trouba

To WPG: Mike Green, Michael Rasmussen, 2nd round pick

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I don't think two high-end prospects and a 2nd is at all unreasonable for Trouba. For someone who really wants Trouba I think you're being incredibly naive when it comes to his value. I mean no insult by that.

I agree that it's not the right time for a Trouba trade reagrdless. Especially if he has the secret desire to come home.

I think the two high-end prospects that you mentioned (Hronek, Veleno) is completely unreasonable / unrealistic.

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I agree that it's not the right time for a Trouba trade reagrdless. Especially if he has the secret desire to come home.

This, I tend to agree with.

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1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

That is pure speculation. ...

He did request a trade back in 2016, and went to arbitration for his last contract. He's had only two negotiations with them and neither went well. It is of course "speculation", but you have to admit there's a hell of a lot of smoke.

Looking at some recent trades:

  • Adam Fox: Top prospect, 3 year ELC +3 years of further RFA control. Traded for high 2nd + a 2020 3rd that could change to a 2nd.
  • Mark Stone: Pending UFA, but given how quickly he signed it was probably negotiated beforehand, better player but at a less important position. Traded for a good prospect and a 2020 2nd, plus a swap of irrelevant Lindbergs. 
  • Karlsson: Pending UFA, prospect of resigning always in doubt, elite player. Traded for a 1st, 2nd, decent prospect, and two mediocre roster players.
  • Kevin Hayes: Pending UFA, low chance of resigning: WPG gave up a late 1st plus a mediocre prospect to rent him.

A team trading for Trouba would have him for 1 year guaranteed, but there'd be some risk of losing him for nothing after. Likely to cost >$8M/yr.

Putting it all together, WPG is not just going to trade him for whatever they can get. The Hayes price would almost certainly not be enough. They'd rather keep him for the season/playoffs than settle. That said, two good prospects plus a high-ish pick is more than market value, and maybe more than anyone would pay. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he isn't moved.

Hronek + the #35 would be a fair offer, though I don't think I'd do it. I'd rather try to sign Myers to a short deal. 

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If an extension was prenegotiated I'd trade Zadina and Green.  I'm not high on Zadina (well documented) but you might be able to peddle him as an ELC replacement for Liane allowing them to trade Liane at some future point.

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5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

What's your point. No comparison was made between the two. I simply said that neither would happen. That's it.

If I said it is "equally" as foolish, you'd have a beef. I didn't...

What the f*** are you talking about?

Legitimately curious to know what you think I said...

Hirose ≠ Rasmussen. Ericsson ≠ Green. 3rd round pick ≠ 2nd round pick. Landeskog ≠ Trouba.

Your trade offers are BUPKIS dude.  

Rasmussen = mid level prospect, 3rd liner.

Green = vet 6 years past his prime.

2nd round pick = 4th liner.

 

For

 

Trouba = 1B defenseman entering his prime.

 

There is ZERO chance of this happening.  Zero.  Cant you see this?

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8 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Green's NTC becomes a M-NTC on February 1st of next season, in which he would have to submit a 10 team no trade list. Assuming Green is healthy, and we're not a playoff team by that time, he will 100% be traded. Yzerman has no ties to Green, and would not feel obligated to honor a deal made by the previous GM.

Yzerman wont trade him without Green's blessing. The deal may have been made under Holland, but Yzerman isnt going to trade him against his wishes. Is it really worth damaging relationships with players and looking like a jerk to other potential free agents to get one more pick? I don't think so.

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44 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Your trade offers are BUPKIS dude.  

Rasmussen = mid level prospect, 3rd liner.

Green = vet 6 years past his prime.

2nd round pick = 4th liner.

 

For

 

Trouba = 1B defenseman entering his prime.

 

There is ZERO chance of this happening.  Zero.  Cant you see this?

So it doesn’t happen , wait till next summer or move on ... we’re a rebuilding franchise going on the up especially if we draft smart in 19 and 20 , we’re in no position to be giving away 2-3 top assets for a 25 yr old who’s a year away from ufa who’s been rumoured to wanting to come home for years 

nothing would piss me off  more at this point if we traded veleno and cholowski and the 35 th pick and then hearing trouba talking to the media all excited saying he’s been wanting to come home for years and was counting down the days 

wait a year , he goes elsewhere it’ll suck but we’ll live 

45 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

It's going to cost far less than you naysayers are thinking. Whomever trades for him. But he's not signing long term unless it's a serious TOP contender or it's Detroit.

If he’s dealt on trade deadline day he’ll get a 1st rounder + and there’s no way we’d deal the #6 now or next years 1st so the cost will be high won’t be 2 2nds , they want to win now 

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42 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Your trade offers are BUPKIS dude.  

Rasmussen = mid level prospect, 3rd liner.

Green = vet 6 years past his prime.

2nd round pick = 4th liner.

For

Trouba = 1B defenseman entering his prime.

There is ZERO chance of this happening.  Zero.  Cant you see this?

Rasmussen = high-end prospect, top six winger.

Green = top 4 defenseman / power-play quarterback, that provides value for the same number of years (1) as Trouba. Age doesn't matter much when it's a one year contract.

2nd round pick = good value pick.

Trouba = 1B defenseman entering his prime that will NOT re-sign. Every single GM in the league knows this. They will not get max value.

49 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Yzerman wont trade him without Green's blessing. The deal may have been made under Holland, but Yzerman isnt going to trade him against his wishes. Is it really worth damaging relationships with players and looking like a jerk to other potential free agents to get one more pick? I don't think so.

Did you not see the moves he made in Tampa? You're really underestimating how ruthless Yzerman can be. If he sees an opportunity to upgrade his team, he will do it. Trading Green at the deadline is a no-brainer.

Do you think Yzerman won't buy-out a Daley because he might "look like a jerk" or "damage relationships"?...

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5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I can't remember where it came from, but a couple years ago there were some serious rumors stating that Trouba wanted to be closer to home. There's no place closer to home for Trouba than Detroit... Even you said, you know people that know Trouba that backed these rumors... Regardless, that's all they are at this point, so I'll leave it at that, but I do think he wants to play for the Red Wings.

Rumors stimulate discussion, but we can't operate on them as if they were true, because they may be entirely false. Even my own.

5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

It takes two parties to negotiate a contract. I'm sure Trouba would have preferred a two year contract. Cheveldayoff wanted no part of a two year contract. And here we are...

I certainly agree with you here. Chevy may have wanted to keep the deal short so he could still be traded for value. If Trouba signs another 1 year, or is traded and signs a 1 year, he's as good as ours I would think based on the rumors.

6 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

What do you expect him to say? He hates Winnipeg and he's miserable there?

No, but he expressly says he's much happier than he was in 2016, with the state of the team and his place on it. Sounds like he believes he's on a team that's ready to compete for a cup and he's excited about that. He even said something along the lines of "my work isn't done here yet in Winnipeg" or something like that. If anyone has access to Athletic and can post the exact quote please and thanks. 

6 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

This simply isn't true. Winnipeg know that they have a one year window to trade Trouba or they potentially (likely) lose him for nothing. Every team in the league knows this. So, while they're not going to give him away, I don't think they'll get maximum return either.

? Players who want off there current team get max value all the time. I would especially think so of an RFA.

If you're retort is he only wants to play in Detroit and that's why the package will be low, my answer is rumors don't mean jack. And there hasn't even been any legit rumors linking him to Detroit. Zero. Just fan speculation.

 

6 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

That's a lot of convincing evidence you have compiled there... Random fans armchair GM trades. My armchair GM trade was...

To DET: Jacob Trouba

To WPG: Mike Green, Michael Rasmussen, 2nd round pick

I think the two high-end prospects that you mentioned (Hronek, Veleno) is completely unreasonable / unrealistic.

I don't think you're trade is too far off. I just don't think a 34 year old Mike Green is gonna be anything they want other than a throw in who can play for them short term. Green + Rasmussen + 1st + Lindstrom I think is more realistic.

4 hours ago, Buppy said:

He did request a trade back in 2016, and went to arbitration for his last contract. He's had only two negotiations with them and neither went well. It is of course "speculation", but you have to admit there's a hell of a lot of smoke.

Like I said to KR, based on his current interviews he goes out of his way to point out he's much happier in Winnipeg than he was in 2016. There really isn't any current rumor that he still wants out. Just media and fan BS.

4 hours ago, Buppy said:

Looking at some recent trades:

  • Adam Fox: Top prospect, 3 year ELC +3 years of further RFA control. Traded for high 2nd + a 2020 3rd that could change to a 2nd.
  • Mark Stone: Pending UFA, but given how quickly he signed it was probably negotiated beforehand, better player but at a less important position. Traded for a good prospect and a 2020 2nd, plus a swap of irrelevant Lindbergs. 
  • Karlsson: Pending UFA, prospect of resigning always in doubt, elite player. Traded for a 1st, 2nd, decent prospect, and two mediocre roster players.
  • Kevin Hayes: Pending UFA, low chance of resigning: WPG gave up a late 1st plus a mediocre prospect to rent him.

A team trading for Trouba would have him for 1 year guaranteed, but there'd be some risk of losing him for nothing after. Likely to cost >$8M/yr.

Putting it all together, WPG is not just going to trade him for whatever they can get. The Hayes price would almost certainly not be enough. They'd rather keep him for the season/playoffs than settle. That said, two good prospects plus a high-ish pick is more than market value, and maybe more than anyone would pay. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he isn't moved.

Hronek + the #35 would be a fair offer, though I don't think I'd do it. I'd rather try to sign Myers to a short deal. 

Again I'm not convinced that Trouba wants out, but lets pretend he does. In that case Trouba and Winnipeg are in a weird situation. Rarely do big name studs with RFA rights get traded.

I still maintain baseline is clearly 1st, 2nd, 3rd round pick. That's what they're guaranteed to get on the offer sheet market. If you can offer them something more attractive to their situation than that, I'm sure they'd bite.

But all in all, I'm betting he'll re-sign with Winnipeg.

3 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

It's going to cost far less than you naysayers are thinking. Whomever trades for him. But he's not signing long term unless it's a serious TOP contender or it's Detroit.

Yeah yeah and Owen Tippett will run away with the 2017/18 season and 2018/19 season.

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Trouba = 1B defenseman entering his prime that will NOT re-sign. Every single GM in the league knows this. They will not get max value.

Here's what I'm talking about. You're clearly operating as if the rumors are true. Rumors are not anything to lean on.

And the rumors don't even take him to Detroit, they're just that he wants out of Winnipeg.

If that's the case any team should trade for him, but I don't even buy that rumor to be true.

Yall are living in fantasy rumor land I swear. Get ready for the let down.

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Premise: Michigan Dman becomes stud

Data: No indication he will come to the Red Wings

LGW Conclusion: He will be traded here for cheap

Can't fault that logic boys carry on

Stare long enough into the hype and the hype stares back into you

 

 

Edited by ChristopherReevesLegs

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22 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Like I said to KR, based on his current interviews he goes out of his way to point out he's much happier in Winnipeg than he was in 2016. There really isn't any current rumor that he still wants out. Just media and fan BS.

Again I'm not convinced that Trouba wants out, but lets pretend he does. In that case Trouba and Winnipeg are in a weird situation. Rarely do big name studs with RFA rights get traded.

I still maintain baseline is clearly 1st, 2nd, 3rd round pick. That's what they're guaranteed to get on the offer sheet market. If you can offer them something more attractive to their situation than that, I'm sure they'd bite.

Like I said, it's certainly speculation, but there's some good cause for it.

From https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/jets-defenceman-jacob-trouba-comments-future-winnipeg/

  • Asked on Monday if he wanted to be a Winnipeg Jet for the long-term, Trouba was non-committal.
  • “Same answer as always,” he said to the familiar question. “We’ll figure it out once things get going in the summer, what’s best, and move forward from there. We gotta sit down, have a meeting and figure out what to do moving forward. I haven’t really thought about it. I tried to put it in the back of my mind as much as I could this year.

(And I'm sure the Tiger's hat will add some fuel to the speculation, though I think it's already been mentioned here somewhere.)

Also this:

  • Asked Trouba if he plays a role in helping the Jets stay under the salary cap this upcoming season, he responds, “that’s Chevy’s job.”

He did say this last year:

  • You get the sense there’s a little unfinished business, I guess, here with this team. We all have such good relationships on this team, it’s fun to be part of. It’s a special team. You want to play for a contender, and that’s what we have here.”

But after that he went through arbitration, played for a team that earned 15 fewer points, lost in the first round, and now may not have enough cap space to resign all of Laine, Connor, Myers, Trouba, plus another 4-5 players to fill out the roster. They don't have much in the way of prospects coming up, nor much money coming off the books. The situation there isn't looking quite as rosy as it probably was at the end of last year.

But none of that has anything to do with what return they'll get if they trade him, just makes it more likely IMO that they will try to trade him. 

Offer sheet compensation is irrelevant, since no one will offer sheet him. Most likely he will elect arbitration again. But even if he doesn't, and someone did give him an offer, the Jets would just match. It'd have to be an insane offer to keep them from matching, so you might as well argue that the baseline is 4 1sts. 

It's rare for big name players to get traded period, so it's difficult to gauge value, but how many players recently have brought the kind of return you're talking about? Karlsson. Duchene. Maybe McDonagh depending on how you value Miller/Namestnikov. 

Trouba had a great year, but I don't think that completely erases the fact that his history is hardly that impressive. Hronek may already be a better scorer. Maybe I could see a 3rd good asset being conditional on resigning him long term, but otherwise two, or two + a throw-in.

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Once in awhile, I forget who I'm dealing with here. You're right CRL. Winnipeg will get the #1 pick from Jersey, McDavid from Edmonton and Mathews from Toronto in a 4 way trade. Look at the haul Karlsson at 27 brought! Man that was way overpayment! Ottawa fleeced them!

It's time for a break. Thanks number9, for putting all on the right path. Not sure where we'd be without your insight.

Larkin, AA and Zadina for Trouba.

Edited by LeftWinger

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9 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

No, but he expressly says he's much happier than he was in 2016, with the state of the team and his place on it. Sounds like he believes he's on a team that's ready to compete for a cup and he's excited about that. He even said something along the lines of "my work isn't done here yet in Winnipeg" or something like that. If anyone has access to Athletic and can post the exact quote please and thanks.

The quotes you're thinking of are from last offseason, not this offseason...

Here's the article...

It’s May 22, 2018, and Jacob Trouba sits beside Josh Morrissey at Bell MTS Place. Trouba is adamant that his mission in Winnipeg hasn’t been accomplished yet.

You get the sense there’s a little unfinished business here with this team,” Trouba says. “We all have such good relationships on this team — it’s fun to be part of.”

Trouba is all smiles and optimism. He cracks jokes and pokes fun at Morrissey while insisting that his situation in Winnipeg has improved since his 2016 contract stalemate.

It’s a special team,” he reiterates. “You want to play for a contender and that’s what we have here.”

For Jets fans, the only way to improve this press conference from Trouba would be if he closed it off by signing a long-term extension. Instead, Trouba holds court, lauding Morrissey’s development, highlighting their burgeoning chemistry and emphasizing his increased responsibility as a reason things are looking up in Winnipeg.

He doesn’t sign a long-term contract. Trouba elects for an arbitration hearing instead, which promptly ties GM Kevin Cheveldayoff’s hands. Winnipeg is forced to choose between a one- or two-year arbitration award. Given that a two-year contract would walk Trouba directly to unrestricted free agency in 2020, Cheveldayoff chooses a one-year pact. This decision will have consequences.

Fast forward to April 22, 2019. After a prolonged second-half slump and a six-game first round loss, Winnipeg’s optimism has faded.

Trouba’s exit interview is exactly one month (or two metric playoff series) earlier this season than it was a year ago. This time, it’s not defensive partner Morrissey at Trouba’s side but pending unrestricted free agent Brandon Tanev. Trouba is wearing a black Detroit Tigers baseball cap.

He shifts back and forth restlessly in his chair as the question everyone knows has to be asked finally comes. Does Trouba want to be a long-term Winnipeg Jet?

Same answer as always,” says Trouba. “I’ll figure it out once things get going in the summer, what’s best and move forward from there.”

It’s summertime, Winnipeg.

The Jacob Trouba saga is coming to an end or, at least, it should be. With May long weekend in the rearview mirror, we are exactly one month away from the NHL draft — or, from Winnipeg’s perspective, a great opportunity to trade Trouba.

Those consequences we mentioned earlier? They were dire.

While playing out his one-year arbitration award, Trouba did himself all kinds of favours on the ice and on his stat sheet, too.

We’ve known Trouba was a top-end 5-on-5 point producer for years — he’s placed inside the top 20 for points per minute among defencemen at 5-on-5 in each of his past three seasons — but prime-time power-play minutes have been tough to come by. In a league where point production equals ability plus opportunity, Trouba finally enjoyed the best of both worlds in 2018-19. With 82 healthy games and career-high power-play minutes, Trouba obliterated his previous career high of 33 points, reaching the 50-point plateau for the first time.

Suffice to say, if Winnipeg decides to trade Trouba, his value will be at an all-time high.

Of course, the truth is that players with Trouba’s pedigree are typically supposed to be untouchable.

At 25 years old, Trouba has just completed a career season in Winnipeg. Whether you look at all-situations minutes or key in on 5-on-5, he played the second-most minutes among Jets blueliners during the regular season and the playoffs, too. His 50 points led all Jets D in offence and tied Trouba with Patrik Laine for fourth in points.

And don’t let Trouba’s six full years of NHL experience fool you — he’s younger than Dustin Byfuglien, Tyler Myers, Dmitry Kulikov, Ben Chiarot, Nathan Beaulieu, Joe Morrow and Tucker Poolman.

If ever there were the type of player whose age and performance dictated a long-term contract, it would be Trouba.

The problem is ever since his 2016 contract standoff, the perception around Trouba is that home is simply not in Winnipeg — that he’d prefer to play as much of his career as possible in the United States. He and the Jets have been allowed to negotiate a contract extension since Jan. 1, but nothing has been announced. After all of this long-term consternation, the thought in Winnipeg is that a long-term contract is not in the cards and that Trouba will be traded before this summer’s draft.

So what does Winnipeg need?

On the ice, Winnipeg’s most pressing need is a player who can come in and play in its top four. Without Trouba and with the potential loss of Tyler Myers to free agency, there are going to be more opportunities on D in Winnipeg than there are experienced bodies to fill them. It should be noted that the Jets are presumably in win-now mode. The most ideal return may well be a Trouba clone or, at the very least, a defender who can play in their top four. Similarly pressing, Winnipeg’s second-line-centre situation is ambiguous heading into 2019-20 — Bryan Little has been ousted from that job in consecutive seasons, while none of Adam Lowry, Jack Roslovic or Andrew Copp has managed to claim his spot.

Off the ice, the Jets need to replenish their prospect pipeline. A team known for drafting and development — and in dire need of value contracts after Laine and Kyle Connor get extensions this summer — heads into June’s draft with just a second-, a fourth- and a fifth-round pick to its name. That sheer lack of picks needs to change, and Trouba may be Cheveldayoff’s best bet to make that happen.

Finally, the Jets do have prospect defencemen — most notably Sami Niku, Dylan Samberg, Logan Stanley, Luke Green and Poolman — but no one with Trouba’s ceiling or pedigree. Any meaningful addition to this group would have to be seen as a boon.

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10 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Premise: Michigan Dman becomes stud

Data: No indication he will come to the Red Wings

LGW Conclusion: He will be traded here for cheap

Can't fault that logic boys carry on

Stare long enough into the hype and the hype stares back into you

Premise: Michigan defenseman is a stud.

Data: Everything is pointing toward Trouba moving on from Winnipeg.

LGW: We should go after Trouba. What would it cost to get him? Or maybe we should wait until free agency?

CRL: Everything everyone is hearing is just rumors. There is no truth to any of it. Trouba will re-sign with Winnipeg... 

Can't fault that logic... Everyone in the hockey world are probably wrong. I'm sure Trouba is perfectly happy in Winnipeg...

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Changing gears for a moment, would you entertain a trade for Zucker and Suter out of Minny. Zucker has been on the block for a couple seasons and there have been rumblings out there about Minny could possibly trade Suter. He probably wouldn't waive to come here though.

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17 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Changing gears for a moment, would you entertain a trade for Zucker and Suter out of Minny. Zucker has been on the block for a couple seasons and there have been rumblings out there about Minny could possibly trade Suter. He probably wouldn't waive to come here though.

Are you serious? Hell No!

Why would we want a 27 year old, 40-50 point left winger that is signed for $5.5M for the next 4 seasons? And a 34 year old, 40-50 point defenseman that is signed for $7.5M for the next 6 seasons? Zucker is overpaid and soon going to be past his prime. Suter is paid fairly but for too long, and will soon be past his prime. Both are still solid players (not for much longer), but are players a team a piece or two away from being legit Cup contenders would acquire, not a rebuilding team that is several key pieces away...

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20 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Are you serious? Hell No!

Why would we want a 27 year old, 40-50 point left winger that is signed for $5.5M for the next 4 seasons? And a 34 year old, 40-50 point defenseman that is signed for $7.5M for the next 6 seasons? Zucker is overpaid and soon going to be past his prime. Suter is paid fairly but for too long, and will soon be past his prime. Both are still solid players (not for much longer), but are players a team a piece or two away from being legit Cup contenders would acquire, not a rebuilding team that is several key pieces away...

You have to start somewhere. You need some big time vets, you cannot go with all kids or you'll be Edmonton. 30 years old is not past prime. We built a team with draft and vets, kept it for 10-20 years, we were doing our best when they were 25-35. You guys have to realize that in order to properly rebuild, you need to acquire talent just as much as you need to draft it. Not saying these two are the answer, but Suter would STILL be our 1A defender for the rest of his contract. You won't find a #1 guy for what his Cap hit is. Not even Trouba wil have a cap less than $8M.

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13 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Kessel for ?

a contender...

We have no use for a 31 year old winger signed for $6.8M for the next three seasons. Kessel would cost huge assets... something we can't afford to give up.

4 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

:lol: No!

Imagine this guy being our GM...

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2 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Hmmmm, so Winnipeg has inquired about draft picks. Strange, seems a certain user on here seems to think they won't accept anything less that parts to win now. I'd give them the #6 for sure for Trouba.

1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

a contender...

We have no use for a 31 year old winger signed for $6.8M for the next three seasons. Kessel would cost huge assets... something we can't afford to give up.

:lol: No!

Imagine this guy being our GM...

What guy? It's an article saying that Yzerman is indeed interested in Trouba and Winnipeg has inquired about our draft picks. We're gonna have two 1sts probably next year in a deeper draft. We can afford to deal our #6 for a true #1 defender, who will positively sign a long term deal here. It may even be a sign and trade. Get it done. 

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3 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

You have to start somewhere. You need some big time vets, you cannot go with all kids or you'll be Edmonton. 30 years old is not past prime. We built a team with draft and vets, kept it for 10-20 years, we were doing our best when they were 25-35. You guys have to realize that in order to properly rebuild, you need to acquire talent just as much as you need to draft it. Not saying these two are the answer, but Suter would STILL be our 1A defender for the rest of his contract. You won't find a #1 guy for what his Cap hit is. Not even Trouba wil have a cap less than $8M.

You want vets? Acquire them via free agency, not trade. It would be beyond dumb to trade high end picks / prospect / roster players for two players that are soon to be past their prime. The average prime years for a forward is approximately 23/24-27/28. The average prime years for a defenseman is a little older (not much). Of course an elite player like Suter is an outlier here, but he will soon start a regression as well.

I'm so sick of this "we don't want to end up being the next Oilers" narrative. It's dumb. The Oilers haven't been terrible because they didn't have veteran leadership. They have been terrible because they've had (up until now) terrible management. That team was mismanaged for years. I think Holland will turn things around there in a big way.

You're right. Suter would instantly be our best defenseman. That doesn't make it a good trade though. How much longer would he be our best defenseman? 1? 2? 3 years? At what cost? The cap hit isn't what worries me. I said as much in my previous post. It's the age, term, and cost (assets) that made me say "Hell No!"...

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6 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Hmmmm, so Winnipeg has inquired about draft picks. Strange, seems a certain user on here seems to think they won't accept anything less that parts to win now. I'd give them the #6 for sure for Trouba.

What guy? It's an article saying that Yzerman is indeed interested in Trouba and Winnipeg has inquired about our draft picks. We're gonna have two 1sts probably next year in a deeper draft. We can afford to deal our #6 for a true #1 defender, who will positively sign a long term deal here. It may even be a sign and trade. Get it done. 

Agreed.  I know KRS thinks we are just going to be handed Trouba.  But we all know his "they probably wouldnt go for it" rhetoric is garbage.  Pick #6, the Sharks 2nd, and Green for Trouba.  Sign 8 year/60 million extension immediately.

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