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Official 2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread, Pt. 2 - What's the Yzerplan?

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11 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Hmmmm, so Winnipeg has inquired about draft picks. Strange, seems a certain user on here seems to think they won't accept anything less that parts to win now. I'd give them the #6 for sure for Trouba.

What guy? It's an article saying that Yzerman is indeed interested in Trouba and Winnipeg has inquired about our draft picks. We're gonna have two 1sts probably next year in a deeper draft. We can afford to deal our #6 for a true #1 defender, who will positively sign a long term deal here. It may even be a sign and trade. Get it done. 

Sure, we can afford to trade out 6th overall pick, but why would we? I'm with @nyqvististhefutureon this one. No way should we be giving up huge assets for a player that could end up coming here for free in a year's time. I mentioned trading Rasmussen plus, but even that may be too high a price to pay...

The 6th overall pick could end up being our future number one defenseman, if Byram falls (doubtful), or our number one center. I wouldn't trade that for a player that has been rumored to want to "come home" for years... I do think Yzerman will acquire Trouba, and I do think it will be for MUCH less than some of you are thinking it will be.

What guy? Jonas. Not that I think any of us would have what it takes to be a NHL general manager, but this guy would be the absolute worst...

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6 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Once in awhile, I forget who I'm dealing with here. You're right CRL. Winnipeg will get the #1 pick from Jersey, McDavid from Edmonton and Mathews from Toronto in a 4 way trade. Look at the haul Karlsson at 27 brought! Man that was way overpayment! Ottawa fleeced them!

It's time for a break. Thanks number9, for putting all on the right path. Not sure where we'd be without your insight.

Larkin, AA and Zadina for Trouba.

You've provided absolutely zero evidence or argument behind your line of thinking

Literally just saying: he's not gonna cost much trust me

And when no one takes you seriously you resort to straw manning others

Come back when you have something

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

The quotes you're thinking of are from last offseason, not this offseason...

Here's the article...

It’s May 22, 2018, and Jacob Trouba sits beside Josh Morrissey at Bell MTS Place. Trouba is adamant that his mission in Winnipeg hasn’t been accomplished yet.

You get the sense there’s a little unfinished business here with this team,” Trouba says. “We all have such good relationships on this team — it’s fun to be part of.”

Trouba is all smiles and optimism. He cracks jokes and pokes fun at Morrissey while insisting that his situation in Winnipeg has improved since his 2016 contract stalemate.

It’s a special team,” he reiterates. “You want to play for a contender and that’s what we have here.”

For Jets fans, the only way to improve this press conference from Trouba would be if he closed it off by signing a long-term extension. Instead, Trouba holds court, lauding Morrissey’s development, highlighting their burgeoning chemistry and emphasizing his increased responsibility as a reason things are looking up in Winnipeg.

He doesn’t sign a long-term contract. Trouba elects for an arbitration hearing instead, which promptly ties GM Kevin Cheveldayoff’s hands. Winnipeg is forced to choose between a one- or two-year arbitration award. Given that a two-year contract would walk Trouba directly to unrestricted free agency in 2020, Cheveldayoff chooses a one-year pact. This decision will have consequences.

Fast forward to April 22, 2019. After a prolonged second-half slump and a six-game first round loss, Winnipeg’s optimism has faded.

Trouba’s exit interview is exactly one month (or two metric playoff series) earlier this season than it was a year ago. This time, it’s not defensive partner Morrissey at Trouba’s side but pending unrestricted free agent Brandon Tanev. Trouba is wearing a black Detroit Tigers baseball cap.

He shifts back and forth restlessly in his chair as the question everyone knows has to be asked finally comes. Does Trouba want to be a long-term Winnipeg Jet?

Same answer as always,” says Trouba. “I’ll figure it out once things get going in the summer, what’s best and move forward from there.”

It’s summertime, Winnipeg.

The Jacob Trouba saga is coming to an end or, at least, it should be. With May long weekend in the rearview mirror, we are exactly one month away from the NHL draft — or, from Winnipeg’s perspective, a great opportunity to trade Trouba.

Those consequences we mentioned earlier? They were dire.

While playing out his one-year arbitration award, Trouba did himself all kinds of favours on the ice and on his stat sheet, too.

We’ve known Trouba was a top-end 5-on-5 point producer for years — he’s placed inside the top 20 for points per minute among defencemen at 5-on-5 in each of his past three seasons — but prime-time power-play minutes have been tough to come by. In a league where point production equals ability plus opportunity, Trouba finally enjoyed the best of both worlds in 2018-19. With 82 healthy games and career-high power-play minutes, Trouba obliterated his previous career high of 33 points, reaching the 50-point plateau for the first time.

Suffice to say, if Winnipeg decides to trade Trouba, his value will be at an all-time high.

Of course, the truth is that players with Trouba’s pedigree are typically supposed to be untouchable.

At 25 years old, Trouba has just completed a career season in Winnipeg. Whether you look at all-situations minutes or key in on 5-on-5, he played the second-most minutes among Jets blueliners during the regular season and the playoffs, too. His 50 points led all Jets D in offence and tied Trouba with Patrik Laine for fourth in points.

And don’t let Trouba’s six full years of NHL experience fool you — he’s younger than Dustin Byfuglien, Tyler Myers, Dmitry Kulikov, Ben Chiarot, Nathan Beaulieu, Joe Morrow and Tucker Poolman.

If ever there were the type of player whose age and performance dictated a long-term contract, it would be Trouba.

The problem is ever since his 2016 contract standoff, the perception around Trouba is that home is simply not in Winnipeg — that he’d prefer to play as much of his career as possible in the United States. He and the Jets have been allowed to negotiate a contract extension since Jan. 1, but nothing has been announced. After all of this long-term consternation, the thought in Winnipeg is that a long-term contract is not in the cards and that Trouba will be traded before this summer’s draft.

So what does Winnipeg need?

On the ice, Winnipeg’s most pressing need is a player who can come in and play in its top four. Without Trouba and with the potential loss of Tyler Myers to free agency, there are going to be more opportunities on D in Winnipeg than there are experienced bodies to fill them. It should be noted that the Jets are presumably in win-now mode. The most ideal return may well be a Trouba clone or, at the very least, a defender who can play in their top four. Similarly pressing, Winnipeg’s second-line-centre situation is ambiguous heading into 2019-20 — Bryan Little has been ousted from that job in consecutive seasons, while none of Adam Lowry, Jack Roslovic or Andrew Copp has managed to claim his spot.

Off the ice, the Jets need to replenish their prospect pipeline. A team known for drafting and development — and in dire need of value contracts after Laine and Kyle Connor get extensions this summer — heads into June’s draft with just a second-, a fourth- and a fifth-round pick to its name. That sheer lack of picks needs to change, and Trouba may be Cheveldayoff’s best bet to make that happen.

Finally, the Jets do have prospect defencemen — most notably Sami Niku, Dylan Samberg, Logan Stanley, Luke Green and Poolman — but no one with Trouba’s ceiling or pedigree. Any meaningful addition to this group would have to be seen as a boon.

Thanks, yes year old quote my mistake.

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Data: Everything is pointing toward Trouba moving on from Winnipeg.

Rumor/speculation is not evidence or data

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

CRL: Everything everyone is hearing is just rumors. There is no truth to any of it. Trouba will re-sign with Winnipeg... 

Can't fault that logic... Everyone in the hockey world are probably wrong. I'm sure Trouba is perfectly happy in Winnipeg...

Quite literally true. It's all just fan rumors. Nothing reliable.

Everyone in the hockey world? Do you mean fans? Because there isn't one quote from a reliable source that Trouba will be traded or that that trade will take him to Detroit. None.

2 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

 

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Hmmmm, so Winnipeg has inquired about draft picks. Strange, seems a certain user on here seems to think they won't accept anything less that parts to win now. I'd give them the #6 for sure for Trouba.

What guy? It's an article saying that Yzerman is indeed interested in Trouba and Winnipeg has inquired about our draft picks. We're gonna have two 1sts probably next year in a deeper draft. We can afford to deal our #6 for a true #1 defender, who will positively sign a long term deal here. It may even be a sign and trade. Get it done. 

lol

This isn't a reliable source whatsoever. They mention the Athletic, but the Athletic has not published anything saying this, and they don't link to the Athletic, they link to NHLTradeRumors which is total BS and has no source at all.

Fake news at its finest

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1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You've provided absolutely zero evidence or argument behind your line of thinking

Literally just saying: he's not gonna cost much trust me

And when no one takes you seriously you resort to straw manning others

Come back when you have something

Thanks, yes year old quote my mistake.

Rumor/speculation is not evidence or data

Quite literally true. It's all just fan rumors. Nothing reliable.

Everyone in the hockey world? Do you mean fans? Because there isn't one quote from a reliable source that Trouba will be traded or that that trade will take him to Detroit. None.

 

lol

This isn't a reliable source whatsoever. They mention the Athletic, but the Athletic has not published anything saying this, and they don't link to the Athletic, they link to NHLTradeRumors which is total BS and has no source at all.

Fake news at its finest

Yah, 2 2nd rounders will not land us Trouba.

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1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Rumor/speculation is not evidence or data

You're absolutely right. However, where there's this much smoke, there's definitely a fire. You really don't think there's any truth to these rumors? Why is it only Trouba that we've been hearing these rumors about for the past 3 years? Why are we not hearing that Werenski (or any other NHLer) is unhappy in Columbus (team they're playing for) and wants to come home to Michigan (hometown)?

I think Trouba has played his last game in Winnipeg. I think he will be traded before training camp. I think there's a good chance he lands in Detroit. I also think he will end up being traded for a lot less than you and a few others are expecting.

We shall see...

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5 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Agreed.  I know KRS thinks we are just going to be handed Trouba.  But we all know his "they probably wouldnt go for it" rhetoric is garbage.  Pick #6, the Sharks 2nd, and Green for Trouba.  Sign 8 year/60 million extension immediately.

No. CRL, No.9, that is the reference.  But even though it is in black and white that Yzerman has called about Trouba and Winnipeg is interested in picks, he still says it'll take the sky to get him. It won't.  He will be very surprised at what little is costs to get him. Remeber when Ottawa was going to get a King's ransom for Karlsson? Well, we see how that turned out. Winnipeg better accept what they can now, because one more year, Trouba will be in the EXACT same spot as Karlsson, except less points, Norris Trophies and All World Accolades. But ya, it'll cost all our core plus 16 1st round picks.

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37 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You're absolutely right. However, where there's this much smoke, there's definitely a fire.

There isn't definitely anything.

Just because fans haven't shut the f*** up about trading for Trouba for the past 3 years doesn't lend credence to anything.

If Friedman or Dreger or Mackenzie or someone pop on the twitter tomorrow and say "hearing negotiations between Trouba's camp and Winnipeg's have completely broken down" or "Hearing Trouba has expressed through his agent a desire to play closer to home" THAT is smoke.

This fanbase and LGW obsessing about obtaining a particular player is not anything new. Before Trouba it was Bogosian. Before Bogosian it was Edler. With the later two It all turned out to be just baseless fan speculation compounded by years of snowballing confirmation bias.

57 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You really don't think there's any truth to these rumors?

No, I think the rumors could be true. I also think there could be aliens in area 51 and the US government could have killed JFK, but until there's actual evidence I'm not even remotely convinced.

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Why is it only Trouba that we've been hearing these rumors about for the past 3 years? Why are we not hearing that Werenski (or any other NHLer) is unhappy in Columbus (team they're playing for) and wants to come home to Michigan (hometown)?

The simple answer is: Because Detroit has needed a stud Dman for a long time. Trouba is from Detroit. Trouba has requested a trade in the past. Trouba hasn't committed to Winnipeg long-term. Boom, he's the perfect player to speculate about.

The long answer is: The above + a long-winded nerdy explanation about psychology, group-think, and the bandwagon effect.

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I think Trouba has played his last game in Winnipeg. I think he will be traded before training camp. I think there's a good chance he lands in Detroit. I also think he will end up being traded for a lot less than you and a few others are expecting.

We shall see...

I think you have developed some very rigid and specific thoughts based on very little evidence.

If we trade for Trouba on the cheap, I will be thrilled. But I'm not convinced we're getting Callahan or Trouba yet. And there's exactly the same amount of evidence that we're getting either.

4 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

No. CRL, No.9, that is the reference.  But even though it is in black and white that Yzerman has called about Trouba and Winnipeg is interested in picks, he still says it'll take the sky to get him. It won't.  He will be very surprised at what little is costs to get him. Remeber when Ottawa was going to get a King's ransom for Karlsson? Well, we see how that turned out. Winnipeg better accept what they can now, because one more year, Trouba will be in the EXACT same spot as Karlsson, except less points, Norris Trophies and All World Accolades. But ya, it'll cost all our core plus 16 1st round picks.

NHLTradeRumors isn't a credible source. Next.

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41 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

No. CRL, No.9, that is the reference.  But even though it is in black and white that Yzerman has called about Trouba and Winnipeg is interested in picks, he still says it'll take the sky to get him. It won't.  He will be very surprised at what little is costs to get him. Remeber when Ottawa was going to get a King's ransom for Karlsson? Well, we see how that turned out. Winnipeg better accept what they can now, because one more year, Trouba will be in the EXACT same spot as Karlsson, except less points, Norris Trophies and All World Accolades. But ya, it'll cost all our core plus 16 1st round picks.

You wouldnt pull the trigger on #6, #57, and Green for Trouba?

2 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

There isn't definitely anything.

Just because fans haven't shut the f*** up about trading for Trouba for the past 3 years doesn't lend credence to anything.

If Friedman or Dreger or Mackenzie or someone pop on the twitter tomorrow and say "hearing negotiations between Trouba's camp and Winnipeg's have completely broken down" or "Hearing Trouba has expressed through his agent a desire to play closer to home" THAT is smoke.

This fanbase and LGW obsessing about obtaining a particular player is not anything new. Before Trouba it was Bogosian. Before Bogosian it was Edler. With the later two It all turned out to be just baseless fan speculation compounded by years of snowballing confirmation bias.

No, I think the rumors could be true. I also think there could be aliens in area 51 and the US government could have killed JFK, but until there's actual evidence I'm not even remotely convinced.

The simple answer is: Because Detroit has needed a stud Dman for a long time. Trouba is from Detroit. Trouba has requested a trade in the past. Trouba hasn't committed to Winnipeg long-term. Boom, he's the perfect player to speculate about.

The long answer is: The above + a long-winded nerdy explanation about psychology, group-think, and the bandwagon effect.

I think you have developed some very rigid and specific thoughts based on very little evidence.

If we trade for Trouba on the cheap, I will be thrilled. But I'm not convinced we're getting Callahan or Trouba yet. And there's exactly the same amount of evidence that we're getting either.

NHLTradeRumors isn't a credible source. Next.

I remember when people were obsessing over Wade Redden on here and throwing out Pavel Fricking Datsyuk as a trade offer.  Jesus.

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5 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

You wouldnt pull the trigger on #6, #57, and Green for Trouba?

I remember when people were obsessing over Wade Redden on here and throwing out Pavel Fricking Datsyuk as a trade offer.  Jesus.

I think we discussed trading Datsyuk for Joe Thornton at one point too. We should revisit that thread now that Datsyuk is out of the league at 37 and Thornton is considering come back again at 40.

At least with Edler it started because it was confirmed Holland wanted to draft him

I don't even remember why or how Bogo mania started

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1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

You wouldnt pull the trigger on #6, #57, and Green for Trouba?

I remember when people were obsessing over Wade Redden on here and throwing out Pavel Fricking Datsyuk as a trade offer.  Jesus.

Yes I would.

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I think we discussed trading Datsyuk for Joe Thornton at one point too. We should revisit that thread now that Datsyuk is out of the league at 37 and Thornton is considering come back again at 40.

At least with Edler it started because it was confirmed Holland wanted to draft him

I don't even remember why or how Bogo mania started

Datsyuk may not be out of the league much longer.

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2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

There isn't definitely anything.

Just because fans haven't shut the f*** up about trading for Trouba for the past 3 years doesn't lend credence to anything.

...

The simple answer is: Because Detroit has needed a stud Dman for a long time. Trouba is from Detroit. Trouba has requested a trade in the past. Trouba hasn't committed to Winnipeg long-term. Boom, he's the perfect player to speculate about.

Not sure what it is you're trying to argue. Do you think anyone is unaware that we're speculating? Or do you think that because it's speculation, it somehow means that your theory that he'll stay in WPG isn't? 

You gloss over him not committing to WPG, and don't even mention the two contentious negotiations he's had, as if those things don't give good cause to speculate about him leaving. Inertia is not going to keep him in WPG, staying is not the default. They have to convince him to stay or he will leave in a year. Their failure to sign him long-term when they've already had three (or six, technically) years to negotiate has to be taken as a sign of some kind of disconnect, at least when viewed along side his past two negotiations. Furthermore, it's not just Trouba's desires that come in to play. The Jets are not in a particularly great spot, and may be in their best interest to trade him even he did want to stay. They're going to lose some defense no matter what. Trading Trouba may allow them to sign both Myers and Chiarot, plus return a couple good assests. 

And none of that has anything to do with what kind of return they could get if they do move him.

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16 minutes ago, Buppy said:

Not sure what it is you're trying to argue. Do you think anyone is unaware that we're speculating? Or do you think that because it's speculation, it somehow means that your theory that he'll stay in WPG isn't?

You can speculate all day that Johnny Toes is gonna waive his NMC and demand a trade to the Red Wings this off season because he grew up an Yzerman fan and wants to play for his hero. That's anyone's right.

And it's my right to call that speculation dumb.

I'm not arguing for a theory that he'll stay in Winnipeg. I'm arguing that there's absolutely nothing to suggest Johnny Toes wants to come to Detroit, and likewise nothing to suggest Jacob Trouba wants to come to Detroit.

I guess I am alone in thinking this, because despite no real indicators, many others appear to be not only convinced he's getting moved, he's also moving to Detroit, and for cut-rate cost. Book it.

38 minutes ago, Buppy said:

You gloss over him not committing to WPG, and don't even mention the two contentious negotiations he's had, as if those things don't give good cause to speculate about him leaving. Inertia is not going to keep him in WPG, staying is not the default. They have to convince him to stay or he will leave in a year. Their failure to sign him long-term when they've already had three (or six, technically) years to negotiate has to be taken as a sign of some kind of disconnect, at least when viewed along side his past two negotiations. Furthermore, it's not just Trouba's desires that come in to play. The Jets are not in a particularly great spot, and may be in their best interest to trade him even he did want to stay. They're going to lose some defense no matter what. Trading Trouba may allow them to sign both Myers and Chiarot, plus return a couple good assests.

I don't find anything you're saying here unreasonable. I didn't find anything unreasonable about your previous post in this thread either, which is probably why I neglected to respond to it. Thank you.

I recognized previous negotiation troubles and the fact that he hasn't committed long-term in my last post about Trouba in response to KR. This is really the sole reason one should speculate about Trouba leaving. Is it because he hates playing there and wants gone, or was he just a young player with serious disagreements about his value, like Athanasiou or Nylander etc... This season he finally truly flourished becoming a top 5 point getter on the team, equaling Laine in points, and playing good D the entire way. If I'm Chevy my first priority is keeping Laine, Connor, and Trouba on the team... the rest can get f***ed for all I care.

I disagree with you a bit about how tight their cap is. If they can get Trouba in at 7, Connor and Laine in at 6, that leaves them with 6 million remaining with 9 roster forwards and 6 roster Dmen. Adding ELC players, cheap fighters/projects, should keep them under the cap, albeit tight.

At the end of the day I don't think Trouba leaving is that wild of an idea. But being convinced he's coming to Detroit and for cheap just because Winnipeg has a tight cap is wild to me.

Will be thrilled if Yzerman can pull it off though.

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On 5/27/2019 at 7:12 PM, krsmith17 said:

Did you not see the moves he made in Tampa? You're really underestimating how ruthless Yzerman can be. If he sees an opportunity to upgrade his team, he will do it. Trading Green at the deadline is a no-brainer.

Do you think Yzerman won't buy-out a Daley because he might "look like a jerk" or "damage relationships"?...

Daley and Green arent comparable situations. A buyout due to cap restraints or underperformance is different from a guy who is contributing and worth his contract being traded. 

Green did not want to be traded at the last TDL but reportedly agreed reluctantly to accept a trade to TB. Green and Holland negotiated again over the summer with Green having concerns over being potentially traded again. Both parties agreed that he wouldnt be. Then Green re-signed based on that understanding.

Does Yzerman have to honor a deal made by his predecessor? Again, no. But Green's contract is with the Red Wings, not Ken Holland. And just because it's Yzerman now, he still represents the organization and he shouldn't renege on an agreement already made between the 2 parties. 

And yeah. Assuming that Green took less money and/or a shorter term contract in order to secure that part of the deal, then it would absolutely be a s****y thing for Yzerman to trade him against his wishes.

Daley's situation is totally different. He signed a multi-year deal at market value without any other promises or guarantees by Holland. He's not coming back, and his contract vs performance makes him more difficult to trade. If he was bought out, no one would think anything of it.

Edited by Neomaxizoomdweebie

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3 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Daley and Green arent comparable situations. A buyout due to cap restraints or underperformance is different from a guy who is contributing and worth his contract being traded. Then Green re-sre-signed based on thay understanding.

Green did not want to be traded at the last TDL but reportedly agreed reluctantly to accept a trade to TB. Green and Holland negotiated again over the summer with Green having concerns over being potentially traded again. Both parties agreed that he wouldnt be.

Does Yzerman have to honor a deal made by his predecessor? Again, no. But Green's contract is with the Red Wings, not Ken Holland. And just because it's Yzerman now, he still represents the organization and he shouldn't renege on an agreement already made between the 2 parties. 

And yeah. Assuming that Green took less money and/or a shorter term contract in order to secure that part of the deal, then it would absolutely be a s****y thing for Yzerman to trade him against his wishes.

Daley's situation is totally different. He signed a multi-year deal at market value without any other promises or guarantees by Holland. He's not coming back, and his contract vs performance makes him more difficult to trade. If he was bought out, no one would think anything of it.

I think you're right if you're suggesting Green can contribute and Daley can't.  We need to bury Daley and Errorson. Unless its contrary to the CBA I'd be.fully prepared to send both to GR.  They would clear waivers (if not all the better) and you have the best players playing on the big club.  The cap wouldn't be a problem their replacements would be cheap ELCs and their salaries need to count either way.  I really don't understand why this doesn't happen more often.

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We have roughly $63 million spent against the cap right now, leaving us with $20 million to spend, and almost no one to re-sign.

This is assuming Kronwall retires, Vanek parts ways, and Zadina, Hirose, and Hronek are added to the roster full-time.

Boys, we basically have $20 mill in free cap we can do whatever we want with.

We can blow it on Karlsson and Panarin. Make crazy trades to bring in Trouba/Point/Marner. Whatever.

But we have absolute no need to buy anyone out right now and extend the length of the annoying minor cap hit.

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22 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Daley and Green arent comparable situations. A buyout due to cap restraints or underperformance is different from a guy who is contributing and worth his contract being traded. 

Green did not want to be traded at the last TDL but reportedly agreed reluctantly to accept a trade to TB. Green and Holland negotiated again over the summer with Green having concerns over being potentially traded again. Both parties agreed that he wouldnt be. Then Green re-signed based on that understanding.

Does Yzerman have to honor a deal made by his predecessor? Again, no. But Green's contract is with the Red Wings, not Ken Holland. And just because it's Yzerman now, he still represents the organization and he shouldn't renege on an agreement already made between the 2 parties. 

And yeah. Assuming that Green took less money and/or a shorter term contract in order to secure that part of the deal, then it would absolutely be a s****y thing for Yzerman to trade him against his wishes.

Daley's situation is totally different. He signed a multi-year deal at market value without any other promises or guarantees by Holland. He's not coming back, and his contract vs performance makes him more difficult to trade. If he was bought out, no one would think anything of it.

You have no idea what Holland and Green agreed on in principle or of any "handshake deal" made. The only agreement made was the contract that was written. That contract states that Green has a full NTC up until February 1st 2020. After that it becomes a M-NTC in which he would have to provide the team with a 10 team no trade list. If there really were an agreement in place that Green would not be traded, it obviously would have been in the contract (full NTC for the entirety of the contract).

So again, if Yzerman sees an opportunity to upgrade his team, he's going to do it. Whether that's trading Green at the deadline for picks, or buying out a bad contract to free up roster spots. 

9 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

We have roughly $63 million spent against the cap right now, leaving us with $20 million to spend, and almost no one to re-sign.

This is assuming Kronwall retires, Vanek parts ways, and Zadina, Hirose, and Hronek are added to the roster full-time.

Boys, we basically have $20 mill in free cap we can do whatever we want with.

We can blow it on Karlsson and Panarin. Make crazy trades to bring in Trouba/Point/Marner. Whatever.

But we have absolute no need to buy anyone out right now and extend the length of the annoying minor cap hit.

Buying out a player would have nothing to do with freeing up cap space. It would be to free up a roster spot. There's still a log jam on defense, and I believe buying out one of Daley or Ericsson would be a smart move. Like mentioned, we don't need the cap space, and the payout over the next two years would be minimal. What a buyout would do, is free up another roster spot for a young defenseman. We currently have DeKeyser, Green, Daley, Ericsson, Bowey, Hronek, Cholowski and Kaski vying for spots on the blueline. That's not considering any possible trades or free agent signings. I'd buyout Daley (or Ericsson) in a heartbeat.

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27 minutes ago, mackel said:

I think you're right if you're suggesting Green can contribute and Daley can't.  We need to bury Daley and Errorson. Unless its contrary to the CBA I'd be.fully prepared to send both to GR.  They would clear waivers (if not all the better) and you have the best players playing on the big club.  The cap wouldn't be a problem their replacements would be cheap ELCs and their salaries need to count either way.  I really don't understand why this doesn't happen more often.

Because if you bury a 4 mil NHLer in the minors, ur cap hit is still 3.1 mil. Replace him with a less experienced, developing kid with a 900k salary and ur cap hit is exactly the same. 

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5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

There isn't definitely anything.

Just because fans haven't shut the f*** up about trading for Trouba for the past 3 years doesn't lend credence to anything.

It's not just fans though. It's media. It's coming from people that are inside the dressing room on a daily basis. People that have an inside look and personal conversations with the players.

Anyway, believe what you want to believe. As will I. I think there's too many rumors and rumblings to ignore. I think Trouba is done in Winnipeg and there's a strong possibility that he could become a Red Wing sooner than later. I've never said that he would come cheap. I just think he will likely come cheaper than you seem to think he will. Like I said though, we'll see how it plays out...

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10 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You have no idea what Holland and Green agreed on in principle or of any "handshake deal" made. The only agreement made was the contract that was written. That contract states that Green has a full NTC up until February 1st 2020. After that it becomes a M-NTC in which he would have to provide the team with a 10 team no trade list. If there really were an agreement in place that Green would not be traded, it obviously would have been in the contract (full NTC for the entirety of the contract).

So again, if Yzerman sees an opportunity to upgrade his team, he's going to do it. Whether that's trading Green at the deadline for picks, or buying out a bad contract to free up roster spots. 

Buying out a player would have nothing to do with freeing up cap space. It would be to free up a roster spot. There's still a log jam on defense, and I believe buying out one of Daley or Ericsson would be a smart move. Like mentioned, we don't need the cap space, and the payout over the next two years would be minimal. What a buyout would do, is free up another roster spot for a young defenseman. We currently have DeKeyser, Green, Daley, Ericsson, Bowey, Hronek, Cholowski and Kaski vying for spots on the blueline. That's not considering any possible trades or free agent signings. I'd buyout Daley (or Ericsson) in a heartbeat.

I personally would just let Kronwall walk and give his spot to Hronek. I would let Green play out his contract. And I would trade Daley at the TDL and bring up Cholowski full time for the rest of the year.

I wouldnt buy out anyone at this point because I think the extended cap hit outweighs the short term benefit of adding a roster spot.

I wouldn't hate it tho.

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6 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Because if you bury a 4 mil NHLer in the minors, ur cap hit is still 3.1 mil. Replace him with a less experienced, developing kid with a 900k salary and ur cap hit is exactly the same. 

I'm not advocating burying players, but in a lot of cases it makes sense. Especially when the cap hit is, like you said, "exactly the same". Get rid of an underperforming player. Give a developing player an opportunity. Seems like a win-win to me. Cap space is a non-issue for this team right now. If they think sending Daley down to the minors and giving that spot to Cholowski is the right move for the team, I wouldn't complain...

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24 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You have no idea what Holland and Green agreed on in principle or of any "handshake deal" made. The only agreement made was the contract that was written. That contract states that Green has a full NTC up until February 1st 2020. After that it becomes a M-NTC in which he would have to provide the team with a 10 team no trade list. If there really were an agreement in place that Green would not be traded, it obviously would have been in the contract (full NTC for the entirety of the contract).

So again, if Yzerman sees an opportunity to upgrade his team, he's going to do it. Whether that's trading Green at the deadline for picks, or buying out a bad contract to free up roster spots. 

Buying out a player would have nothing to do with freeing up cap space. It would be to free up a roster spot. There's still a log jam on defense, and I believe buying out one of Daley or Ericsson would be a smart move. Like mentioned, we don't need the cap space, and the payout over the next two years would be minimal. What a buyout would do, is free up another roster spot for a young defenseman. We currently have DeKeyser, Green, Daley, Ericsson, Bowey, Hronek, Cholowski and Kaski vying for spots on the blueline. That's not considering any possible trades or free agent signings. I'd buyout Daley (or Ericsson) in a heartbeat.

Just waive em

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5 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I personally would just let Kronwall walk and give his spot to Hronek. I would let Green play out his contract. And I would trade Daley at the TDL and bring up Cholowski full time for the rest of the year.

I wouldnt buy out anyone at this point because I think the extended cap hit outweighs the short term benefit of adding a roster spot.

I wouldn't hate it tho.

I would buy-out Daley prior to the start of the season. Here's a look at the "extended cap hit"...

2019-20 - $1,699,999

2020-21 - $733,333

We clearly don't need the $1.7M this season. Do you really think the $734K is going to make or break this team next season? Again, the cap hit on a Daley or Ericsson buy-out is a non-issue. We don't need the cap space, but we could use the extra roster spot.

I would go with this to start next season...

DeKeyser - Green

Ericsson - Hronek

Cholowski - Bowey

Witkowski

I would then trade Green at the deadline for pick(s) and call up whoever. Kaski if he's ready, or maybe Lindstrom...

In my opinion, you don't hold onto a player like Green if you can acquire key assets for the rebuild.

3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Just waive em

I'd be fine with either option.

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5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I would buy-out Daley prior to the start of the season. Here's a look at the "extended cap hit"...

2019-20 - $1,699,999

2020-21 - $733,333

We clearly don't need the $1.7M this season. Do you really think the $734K is going to make or break this team next season? Again, the cap hit on a Daley or Ericsson buy-out is a non-issue. We don't need the cap space, but we could use the extra roster spot.

I would go with this to start next season...

DeKeyser - Green

Ericsson - Hronek

Cholowski - Bowey

Witkowski

I would then trade Green at the deadline for pick(s) and call up whoever. Kaski if he's ready, or maybe Lindstrom...

In my opinion, you don't hold onto a player like Green if you can acquire key assets for the rebuild.

I'd be fine with either option.

Wouldn't it just be better to eat the whole contract this year while we have 20 million in unspent cap?

Are we against the contract limit or something? Can only have 50 player contracts, not sure how many we got

EDIT: We're at 40/50 with Frk, Vanek, Kronwall, Witkowski, Turgeon, Sadowy, Megan, Hicketts, Sulak, Rybar unsigned

Edited by ChristopherReevesLegs

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4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Wouldn't it just be better to eat the whole contract this year while we have 20 million in unspent cap?

Are we against the contract limit or something? Can only have 50 player contracts, not sure how many we got

I'm not worried about the 50 contract limit. As far as I know, we still have plenty of room there. I'm more concerned with the 23-man roster limit, or more specifically, the 7-man defensive corp. I want more kids given more of an opportunity. I want Cholowski on the team over Daley. I don't care how that's achieved, but make it happen. Throw his name out there as a trade option. Offer to eat half his salary. If there are no takers, waive him or buy him out. I don't care. Daley was a bad signing two years ago, and as expected, is terrible now. Get rid of him.

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1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm not worried about the 50 contract limit. As far as I know, we still have plenty of room there. I'm more concerned with the 23-man roster limit, or more specifically, the 7-man defensive corp. I want more kids given more of an opportunity. I want Cholowski on the team over Daley. I don't care how that's achieved, but make it happen. Throw his name out there as a trade option. Offer to eat half his salary. If there are no takers, waive him or buy him out. I don't care. Daley was a bad signing two years ago, and as expected, is terrible now. Get rid of him.

Well if Yzerman agrees with you, I'm sure he'd just waive him. If he's as awful as you say and a buyout candidate then he's not gonna fetch a trade.
Rebuilding cash rich teams don't need to buyout players with 1 year left.

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