2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread, Pt. 2 - What's the Yzerplan?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

8 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

The past couple years it's been BAD, but it could / should be much better in the not too distant future...

DeKeyser, Cholowski, Hronek, Lindstrom, McIsaac, Bowey isn't a terrible young corps to build around. Add in a Trouba, Fox or Byram via free agency, trade or draft and we could be looking pretty good in the next few years...

 

Green, Ericsson, and Daley all come off the books after this next season, god bless em, but hopefully we can trade all three at the deadline.

[krsmith17 7,191]

9 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Green, Ericsson, and Daley all come off the books after this next season, god bless em, but hopefully we can trade all three at the deadline.

F*** it, retain 50% salary on all three at the deadline to get max value...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

F*** it, retain 50% salary on all three at the deadline to get max value...

Damn right

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, GMRwings1983 said:

That team could certainly beat the 1993 Senators in a 7 game series.  

But would the 2019 Senators?

[Dabura 12,207]

Can Red Wings realistically improve defense in 2019-20? [MLive]

Quote

“What do we do about the defense?” general manager Ken Holland said. “We draft, we develop, we have patience. We live with their mistakes. We hold them accountable. We educate them. We try to have some veteran players here we think are role models for them and are steadying influences on and off the ice.

“But to find top-four defensemen, you got to draft them, for the most part, and you got to develop them. Maybe you can trade for one, but you got to trade a significant piece to get one of those guys.”

That significant piece would be a core, young forward, like Andreas Athanasiou, Anthony Mantha or Tyler Bertuzzi, and there’s no reason to believe that will happen this off-season.

Quote

“There’s always potentially a free agent or two; there haven’t been many on the market that are going to really change your team,” coach Jeff Blashill said. “Certainly, I’m in favor of making our team a little bit better with some free-agent acquisitions, if they’re available. If we can add players who make us a lot better in a hurry, now, not so much of the pressure is on the young players here. We’d love to do that, and we’ll see.”

Blashill added: “I still think the reality of us getting better has to come from the growth of our guys that we currently have.”

Quote

Holland envisions 2020-21 as the season the team will make a significant improvement on the blue line.

“As we’re rebuilding, we know some of our defense has to be young and if you look forward to the ’20-21 season, pretty much all those old defensemen, their contracts have expired,” Holland said. “These young defensemen have to slowly, methodically take that ice time.”

Edited April 16, 2019 by Dabura

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Can Red Wings realistically improve defense in 2019-20? [MLive]

The one thing I disagree with is that in order to acquire a top four defenseman, you must give up a significant "core" piece like Mantha, Athanasiou or Bertuzzi. That's the going rate for an established top four defenseman. However, I think we should be looking to trade for a prospect that has top four, maybe top two potential. It's been reported that Adam Fox could be had for a pick and a prospect. That's the type of trade that Holland needs to be all over...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

48 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Can Red Wings realistically improve defense in 2019-20? [MLive]

I know it all to be true but sweet mother fu k it drives me nuts when Holland basically says the only way to get top four help on D is through the draft and then I lean back in my chair and run through the list of D men he has drafted in this century so far. SMH FML

[kipwinger 8,518]

If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times, our defense isn't as bad as people think and it's only going to get better.  If Byram is there at 6, draft him.  If not, sit tight on defensemen and continue to develop what we've got until Trouba hits FA.  Hronek's about to be the next Roman Josi anyway so there's nothing to worry about. 

[Dabura 12,207]

24 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

The one thing I disagree with is that in order to acquire a top four defenseman, you must give up a significant "core" piece like Mantha, Athanasiou or Bertuzzi. That's the going rate for an established top four defenseman. However, I think we should be looking to trade for a prospect that has top four, maybe top two potential. It's been reported that Adam Fox could be had for a pick and a prospect. That's the type of trade that Holland needs to be all over...

Admittedly, I'm not overly familiar with Fox. I know he has scoring upside and is a natural PP quarterback, but that's about it. That being said, I'm guessing "a pick and a prospect" means something more substantial than, say, a 2019 2nd and E. Svechnikov -- especially if this is going to be a bidding war situation. We don't have a late 1st and I'm not sure we have a prospect that's both extremely appealing and expendable.

I agree that we should be looking at guys like Fox, I'm just not sure our asset pool is rich enough for hunting expeditions. The upcoming draft might finally get us there tho.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

5 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times, our defense isn't as bad as people think and it's only going to get better.  If Byram is there at 6, draft him.  If not, sit tight on defensemen and continue to develop what we've got until Trouba hits FA.  Hronek's about to be the next Roman Josi anyway so there's nothing to worry about. 

Well, I mean, there were four teams that allowed more goals than us this year. I know GA is a team stat but still, that's pretty incriminating. 

I do agree about the "only getting better thing". And not because we can't get any worse. As others have already stated, I do have genuine optimism about the future of our D. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

8 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Admittedly, I'm not overly familiar with Fox. I know he has scoring upside and is a natural PP quarterback, but that's about it. That being said, I'm guessing "a pick and a prospect" means something more substantial than, say, a 2019 2nd and E. Svechnikov -- especially if this is going to be a bidding war situation. We don't have a late 1st and I'm not sure we have a prospect that's both extremely appealing and expendable.

I agree that we should be looking at guys like Fox, I'm just not sure our asset pool is rich enough for hunting expeditions. The upcoming draft might finally get us there tho.

Didn't Buffalo acquire the rights to Vesey for just a 3rd rounder?

[Dabura 12,207]

11 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I know it all to be true but sweet mother fu k it drives me nuts when Holland basically says the only way to get top four help on D is through the draft and then I lean back in my chair and run through the list of D men he has drafted in this century so far. SMH FML

Same, lol. I agree with everything he's saying...and at the same time I want to scream at him.

Fortunately, the young talent we currently have in the system is generally a cut above what we're used to. If Hronek turns out to be a home run (and he does seem to be trending that way), that gives us something concrete to work with and build around.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

11 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times, our defense isn't as bad as people think and it's only going to get better.  If Byram is there at 6, draft him.  If not, sit tight on defensemen and continue to develop what we've got until Trouba hits FA.  Hronek's about to be the next Roman Josi anyway so there's nothing to worry about. 

 

1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Well, I mean, there were four teams that allowed more goals than us this year. I know GA is a team stat but still, that's pretty incriminating. 

I do agree about the "only getting better thing". And not because we can't get any worse. As others have already stated, I do have genuine optimism about the future of our D. 

If there was one thing I agreed with Holland on in the MLive article Dabs posted, it was that 2020/21 is the year we take a step forward on D. Ericsson, Daley, and Green's contracts will have expired, and they will each be 36, 36, and 34 respectively. Maybe you re-sign Green for cheapish, but Daley and E should hit the road. By that time Hronek should be established, and Cholowski and McIssac should be clawing their way on to the roster.

Dekesyer - Hronek
Cholowski - Green
McIssac - Bowey

Can probably throw some FAs and possibly Lindstrom in their too

[Dabura 12,207]

16 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times, our defense isn't as bad as people think and it's only going to get better.  If Byram is there at 6, draft him.  If not, sit tight on defensemen and continue to develop what we've got until Trouba hits FA.  Hronek's about to be the next Roman Josi anyway so there's nothing to worry about. 

7 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Well, I mean, there were four teams that allowed more goals than us this year. I know GA is a team stat but still, that's pretty incriminating. 

I do agree about the "only getting better thing". And not because we can't get any worse. As others have already stated, I do have genuine optimism about the future of our D. 

Yeah, what 91 said. Wings shouldn't be satisfied, shouldn't assume things will fall perfectly into place -- but the future looks brighter than it has in a long time.

12 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Didn't Buffalo acquire the rights to Vesey for just a 3rd rounder?

I believe so. Might've been different circumstances, can't remember. Weren't there rumors about Vesey wanting to be a Ranger? And did Buffalo have the luxury of time that Carolina seems to have with Fox? Honest questions, cuz I honestly don't know.

[Dabura 12,207]

8 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

If there was one thing I agreed with Holland on in the MLive article Dabs posted, it was that 2020/21 is the year we take a step forward on D. Ericsson, Daley, and Green's contracts will have expired, and they will each be 36, 36, and 34 respectively. Maybe you re-sign Green for cheapish, but Daley and E should hit the road. By that time Hronek should be established, and Cholowski and McIssac should be clawing their way on to the roster.

Dekesyer - Hronek
Cholowski - Green
McIssac - Bowey

Can probably throw some FAs and possibly Lindstrom in their too

Was funny to see Holland call them "old defensemen." Straight-up, no qualifiers.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

13 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

 

If there was one thing I agreed with Holland on in the MLive article Dabs posted, it was that 2020/21 is the year we take a step forward on D. Ericsson, Daley, and Green's contracts will have expired, and they will each be 36, 36, and 34 respectively. Maybe you re-sign Green for cheapish, but Daley and E should hit the road. By that time Hronek should be established, and Cholowski and McIssac should be clawing their way on to the roster.

Dekesyer - Hronek
Cholowski - Green
McIssac - Bowey

Can probably throw some FAs and possibly Lindstrom in their too

Yeah. I would do Green on a year to year deal after his contract, if for nothing else, to have a vet and another RH shot.

E and Daley? No.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[Dabura 12,207]

3 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

E and Daley? No.

This is definitely their last year as Red Wings. If we didn't know it before, that piece I linked to pretty muched confirmed it.

Kronwall's got one year left or zero years left.

DeKeyser isn't a problem if he can consistently play the way he played late in the season. Even if he can't, shedding other old guy contracts should take some heat off of him.

Green could assume Kronwall's leadership role.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

20 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Yeah, what 91 said. Wings shouldn't be satisfied, shouldn't assume things will fall perfectly into place -- but the future looks brighter than it has in a long time.

I believe so. Might've been different circumstances, can't remember. Weren't there rumors about Vesey wanting to be a Ranger? And did Buffalo have the luxury of time that Carolina seems to have with Fox? Honest questions, cuz I honestly don't know.

Buffalo thought Eichel would lure Vesey to sign because they both went to college in Boston I guess. I think he chose the Rags because he wanted to live in Manhattan though. Was a lifestyle choice, not necessarily a team thing.

Fox is linked to the Rangers too, as I think he grew up a blueshirt fan. That's why I think you could take a stab, offload a 3rd, and give him your best pitch just like Buffalo did. The Rangers will sit back and wait till he hits FA.

[kipwinger 8,518]

Just now, The 91 of Ryans said:

Well, I mean, there were four teams that allowed more goals than us this year. I know GA is a team stat but still, that's pretty incriminating. 

I do agree about the "only getting better thing". And not because we can't get any worse. As others have already stated, I do have genuine optimism about the future of our D. 

That's basically what I meant.  The future of our defense is good and will get better.  I realize the current iteration is terrible, but they're placeholders.  Should have specified.

[Dabura 12,207]

19 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Buffalo thought Eichel would lure Vesey to sign because they both went to college in Boston I guess. I think he chose the Rags because he wanted to live in Manhattan though. Was a lifestyle choice, not necessarily a team thing.

Fox is linked to the Rangers too, as I think he grew up a blueshirt fan. That's why I think you could take a stab, offload a 3rd, and give him your best pitch just like Buffalo did. The Rangers will sit back and wait till he hits FA.

Did some digging. This seems to hit on the major points:

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2019/04/latest-on-a-potential-adam-fox-trade.html

Quote

The Carolina Hurricanes won’t be signing Adam Fox this summer, meaning the team has to consider trading his rights at some point in order to receive some sort of compensation before he becomes an unrestricted free agent in August of 2020. If they can find a team that he’s willing to sign with in time for the 2019-20 season, they may be able to coax some value out of them by leveraging the idea of getting him a year early. That’s a tough idea to sell given that teams could just wait a year and try to convince him themselves without giving up an asset, but the Hurricanes are certainly going to try.

Quote

Interestingly, LeBrun notes that the league would void a sign-and-trade situation that was meant to burn the first year of an entry-level contract in 2018-19. That was the immediate speculation surrounding the situation, and a potential selling point for the Hurricanes when bringing deals to other teams. The Hurricanes have talked to the New York Rangers about Fox—who grew up a fan of the team—but LeBrun believes that Carolina would be looking for a late first-round pick in exchange for the Harvard defenseman. That’s obviously a big price for the Rangers or any other team to pay just to get their hands on a player’s rights, especially when he will become an unrestricted free agent down the road.

So I guess I was wrong. Maybe a 2nd + Svechnikov would actually be an overpayment.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Did some digging. This seems to hit on the major points:

https://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2019/04/latest-on-a-potential-adam-fox-trade.html

So I guess I was wrong. Maybe a 2nd + Svechnikov would actually be an overpayment.

Carolina wants a late first? Geddafuqowtaheer Rags will wait the year and sign the boy for free

I think nothing gets done till this time next year. Maybe a team like us takes a shot then, but I'm not sending them anything higher than a 3rd for the chance.

Edited April 16, 2019 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[Dabura 12,207]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Carolina wants a late first? geddafuqowtaheer Rags will wait the year and sign the boy for free

Gotta assume that's the standard unrealistic opening ask, not what they actually expect to get. Right?

And it seems like they really don't have much leverage, so 3rd(+) might actually be enough.

[Dabura 12,207]

TBH, I don't see Holland having much interest in a young player who wants to be a Ranger. I get the impression the Wings are very serious about wanting players who want to be in Detroit. Giving Fox minutes that could be given to other young-and-developing defensemen in the system and then watching him leave in free agency would suck. Maybe it's worth it if we're really high on him and/or we feel he'd help us get to the playoffs next season. *shrug*

The whole grew-up-a-Rangers-fan thing pretty much kills my interest in him and I'm guessing it's one of the reasons why no one in the rumormongering industry is linking him to the Wings.

Edited April 16, 2019 by Dabura

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 minutes ago, Dabura said:

TBH, I don't see Holland having much interest in a young player who wants to be a Ranger. I get the impression the Wings are very serious about wanting players who want to be in Detroit. Giving Fox minutes that could be given to other young-and-developing defensemen in the system and then watching him leave in free agency would suck. Maybe it's worth it if we're really high on him and/or we feel he'd help us get to the playoffs next season. *shrug*

The whole grew-up-a-Rangers-fan thing pretty much kills my interest in him and I'm guessing it's one of the reasons why no one in the rumormongering industry is linking him to the Wings.

Yeah screw him

Let the Rags collect all these 3rd line, #4D, college kids that don't move the needle. We got enough of that with Dekeyser.

[krsmith17 7,191]

52 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yeah screw him

Let the Rags collect all these 3rd line, #4D, college kids that don't move the needle. We got enough of that with Dekeyser.

To be fair, Justin Schultz would be a more apt comparison to Fox rather than DeKeyser. Dekeyser was never drafted. Fox was drafted in the 3rd round. Schultz was drafted in the 2nd round. Fox put up better number than both at the same age.

A player of Fox' calibre would be a huge addition for this team, but I'm starting to side with Dabura. Maybe it would be a bad trade to make if we think he's likely to walk when he becomes a free agent after next season to the Rangers.

Maybe Fox isn't the answer, but I still say this is the "type" of move Holland should be looking to make...