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BringBack19

Report: Detroit to name Steve Yzerman as GM

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So apparently Martin is staying in Detroit in the same role as Assistant General Manager and General Manager of the Griffins. So where does that leave Verbeek? Also, Assistant GM?

Maybe he'll take of Draper's old role as Assistant to the General Manager...

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4 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

So apparently Martin is staying in Detroit in the same role as Assistant General Manager and General Manager of the Griffins. So where does that leave Verbeek? Also, Assistant GM?

Maybe he'll take of Draper's old role as Assistant to the General Manager...

Maybe their will be multiple AGM's

My understanding is Martin is a Cap/Contract specialist and negotiator. And he has the Griffs to run. Verbeek would probably work closer with Yzerman on Detroit personnel decisions.

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3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Maybe their will be multiple AGM's

My understanding is Martin is a Cap/Contract specialist and negotiator. And he has the Griffs to run. Verbeek would probably work closer with Yzerman on Detroit personnel decisions.

Yup, but I would assume that pushes Draper out? Maybe... I'd prefer Draper over Martin, but oh well...

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On 4/30/2019 at 5:40 AM, krsmith17 said:

What am I "wrong" about regarding the NTC/NMC? Like I said, obviously a contract without a NTC/NMC is better than one with one, but it makes sense (sometimes) when they're given out. Obviously Holland gave out a few too many. No one would argue that, but they are sometimes a useful tool to lower a player's cap hit. I completely understand giving Kronwall a NTC. That one makes sense. Same goes for Green. I don't think Nielsen, Vanek, Ericsson or DeKeyser should have been given one, but I guess I get why they were at the time. Abdelkader, Helm and Daley never should have received one in my opinion.

Anyway, the point of all of this is that we're in pretty good shape going forward. Most of the NTC/NMC will fall off in the next year or so, and the remaining three are all easily moveable. Yzerman is not at all handcuffed with any contracts. Even if there is one he doesn't like, he's shown that he's not afraid to buyout a player.

My point is that you just named 7 guys, SEVEN guys that shouldn't have received NTC/NMC. Just seems so ridiculous to me to limit your options like that on the trade market.

My key questions for Yzerman become how do we move guys like Nielsen and Abdelkader who IMO don't really fit the long term goal of this organization but are signed long-term and make quite a bit of money and are both well past their primes. Abdelkader's NTC is pretty easy to trade but who takes that contract?

If Yzerman can move or buyout all of Dekeyser, Nielsen,and Abdelkader than I'll feel a lot more confident. If I were Steve, that would be my priority.

On 4/30/2019 at 7:22 AM, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Agreed. The future was mortgaged for the sake of the streak. I don't blame Holland for that tho.

There is a difference between a bad signing and a bad contract. I dont think that any of Abby, Nielsen, Vanek, Green or Daley were bad siginings. All were brought in or re-signed to fill specific roles the team was lacking. Their contracts, on the other hand, are where one could fairly criticize Holland. They are all either too long in term or too high in salary, or both.

Helm is rhe only one on the team now that I would consider a bad signing. He was easily replacable and redundant. And now he is also overpaid.

I'm excited to see what this roster looks like in 3 years. I think that's an appropriate time frame to give a new GM with this roster and hope that we are competing for a playoff spot by then.

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1 hour ago, Never_Retire_Steve said:

My point is that you just named 7 guys, SEVEN guys that shouldn't have received NTC/NMC. Just seems so ridiculous to me to limit your options like that on the trade market.

My key questions for Yzerman become how do we move guys like Nielsen and Abdelkader who IMO don't really fit the long term goal of this organization but are signed long-term and make quite a bit of money and are both well past their primes. Abdelkader's NTC is pretty easy to trade but who takes that contract?

If Yzerman can move or buyout all of Dekeyser, Nielsen,and Abdelkader than I'll feel a lot more confident. If I were Steve, that would be my priority.

I'm excited to see what this roster looks like in 3 years. I think that's an appropriate time frame to give a new GM with this roster and hope that we are competing for a playoff spot by then.

I agree with you. Priority has to be shedding these contracts. Unfortunately we're in a really bad spot. The buyout terms on all three are nightmares within themselves. No one is gonna trade for these contracts, and if they did we'd have to probably give good picks with them, which defeats the purpose of a rebuild.

I wouldn't put it past Yzerman to do something drastic, because he's showed urgency in the past. But I think we will be sitting on all three for some time. We're a cash rich team and we can afford to do so. The cap is going up which will make these contracts look slightly better and give us more wiggle room. Daley and Ericsson are coming off the books at the end of Yzerman's first year, which alone will allow us to re-sign Mantha, Bertuzzi, and AA. The year after Glendening and Helm come off. Then the next year Nielsen and Dekeyser. Then at the end of Yzerman's 4th year Abdelkader will come off. Buyouts are more favorable when the player has 1 year left, so if we become competitive within this immediate 4 year window I would expect Yzerman to exercise that option at that point. AKA we have to be patient with these contracts. Maybe in two years or so the buyout options will look more favorable.

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7 hours ago, Never_Retire_Steve said:

My point is that you just named 7 guys, SEVEN guys that shouldn't have received NTC/NMC. Just seems so ridiculous to me to limit your options like that on the trade market.

My key questions for Yzerman become how do we move guys like Nielsen and Abdelkader who IMO don't really fit the long term goal of this organization but are signed long-term and make quite a bit of money and are both well past their primes. Abdelkader's NTC is pretty easy to trade but who takes that contract?

If Yzerman can move or buyout all of Dekeyser, Nielsen,and Abdelkader than I'll feel a lot more confident. If I were Steve, that would be my priority.

I'm excited to see what this roster looks like in 3 years. I think that's an appropriate time frame to give a new GM with this roster and hope that we are competing for a playoff spot by then.

I agree that some of those clauses should have never been included in those contracts. I've said as much in previous posts. However, where I disagree is that they effect us in any major way going forward. In my opinion they don't, but I've stated why several times already, so I'm not going over that again. All I'll say is that of those seven NTC/NMC's, only two of them (Nielsen and DeKeyser) are beyond next season. That's not a huge deal.

If Yzerman can buy out all of Nielsen, Abdelkader and DeKeyser you'd feel a lot more confident? So you'd be okay with having a ridiculous amount of dead cap space for the next 8 years?

2019-20 - $3,506,945

2020-21 - $7,756,945

2021-22 - $9,256,945

2022-23 - $5,506,945

2023-24 - $3,756,945

2024-25 - $3,756,945

2025-26 - $1,145,833

2026-27 - $1,145,833

That would NOT make me feel very confident in Yzerman as the GM of the Red Wings going forward... Luckily he's not that dumb...

5 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I agree with you. Priority has to be shedding these contracts. Unfortunately we're in a really bad spot. The buyout terms on all three are nightmares within themselves. No one is gonna trade for these contracts, and if they did we'd have to probably give good picks with them, which defeats the purpose of a rebuild.

I wouldn't put it past Yzerman to do something drastic, because he's showed urgency in the past. But I think we will be sitting on all three for some time. We're a cash rich team and we can afford to do so. The cap is going up which will make these contracts look slightly better and give us more wiggle room. Daley and Ericsson are coming off the books at the end of Yzerman's first year, which alone will allow us to re-sign Mantha, Bertuzzi, and AA. The year after Glendening and Helm come off. Then the next year Nielsen and Dekeyser. Then at the end of Yzerman's 4th year Abdelkader will come off. Buyouts are more favorable when the player has 1 year left, so if we become competitive within this immediate 4 year window I would expect Yzerman to exercise that option at that point. AKA we have to be patient with these contracts. Maybe in two years or so the buyout options will look more favorable.

The only contracts that look bad long term in my opinion are Nielsen's and Abdelkader's. The rest are either up in the next year or two, or in DeKeyser's case, still a valuable player going forward. With that said, you can retain up to 50% on any contract. I'm sure a cash strapped team, looking to reach the cap floor would be willing to take on Nielsen or Abdelkader in the remaining couple years of their contracts.

Nielsen at $2.625M for 1-2 years as a 3rd line center or Abdelkader at $2.125M for 2-3 years as a 4th line winger isn't terrible value. It makes much more sense to eat salary for a couple seasons than buy-out the player.

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25 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I agree that some of those clauses should have never been included in those contracts. I've said as much in previous posts. However, where I disagree is that they effect us in any major way going forward. In my opinion they don't, but I've stated why several times already, so I'm not going over that again. All I'll say is that of those seven NTC/NMC's, only two of them (Nielsen and DeKeyser) are beyond next season. That's not a huge deal.

If Yzerman can buy out all of Nielsen, Abdelkader and DeKeyser you'd feel a lot more confident? So you'd be okay with having a ridiculous amount of dead cap space for the next 8 years?

2019-20 - $3,506,945

2020-21 - $7,756,945

2021-22 - $9,256,945

2022-23 - $5,506,945

2023-24 - $3,756,945

2024-25 - $3,756,945

2025-26 - $1,145,833

2026-27 - $1,145,833

That would NOT make me feel very confident in Yzerman as the GM of the Red Wings going forward... Luckily he's not that dumb...

The only contracts that look bad long term in my opinion are Nielsen's and Abdelkader's. The rest are either up in the next year or two, or in DeKeyser's case, still a valuable player going forward. With that said, you can retain up to 50% on any contract. I'm sure a cash strapped team, looking to reach the cap floor would be willing to take on Nielsen or Abdelkader in the remaining couple years of their contracts.

Nielsen at $2.625M for 1-2 years as a 3rd line center or Abdelkader at $2.125M for 2-3 years as a 4th line winger isn't terrible value. It makes much more sense to eat salary for a couple seasons than buy-out the player.

I don't think anyone will take abby for that price. Maybe Nielsen.

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1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I don't think anyone will take abby for that price. Maybe Nielsen.

Maybe. Maybe not. My question then would be, do you think that one "bad contract" would really hurt us that badly in a few years?

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32 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Maybe. Maybe not. My question then would be, do you think that one "bad contract" would really hurt us that badly in a few years?

No. I think we're alright right now with these contracts. But the moment we turn the corner and become a playoff team again we need to to start burning those contracts quick. They'll inpede us from signing or trading for guys like Panarin this year.

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22 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

No. I think we're alright right now with these contracts. But the moment we turn the corner and become a playoff team again we need to to start burning those contracts quick. They'll inpede us from signing or trading for guys like Panarin this year.

But those contracts will be burning out quick over the next few years, by the time we're in a position to compete. The only one that will be remaining that supposedly can't be traded is Abdelkader's. I just don't see how that one contract hurts us, even when we are good again. And like mentioned previously, it could always be bought out in the last year or two as well, if need be.

Point is, Holland didn't leave us in a bad spot, like so many (not necessarily you) seem to believe, and Yzerman has a relatively good spot, coming in to (continue to) rebuild this team.

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3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

But those contracts will be burning out quick over the next few years, by the time we're in a position to compete. The only one that will be remaining that supposedly can't be traded is Abdelkader's. I just don't see how that one contract hurts us, even when we are good again. And like mentioned previously, it could always be bought out in the last year or two as well, if need be.

Point is, Holland didn't leave us in a bad spot, like so many (not necessarily you) seem to believe, and Yzerman has a relatively good spot, coming in to (continue to) rebuild this team.

I think Holland definately left us in a bad spot, and im a Holland fan.

The reason we wont be competitive within the next 3 years is primarily these contracts. But i think yzermam could acclerate to the point we need to burn these sooner. 

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7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

But those contracts will be burning out quick over the next few years, by the time we're in a position to compete. The only one that will be remaining that supposedly can't be traded is Abdelkader's. I just don't see how that one contract hurts us, even when we are good again. And like mentioned previously, it could always be bought out in the last year or two as well, if need be.

Point is, Holland didn't leave us in a bad spot, like so many (not necessarily you) seem to believe, and Yzerman has a relatively good spot, coming in to (continue to) rebuild this team.

You are forgetting about the expansion draft.  The bad contracts are going to hurt.

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1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

You are forgetting about the expansion draft.  The bad contracts are going to hurt.

Thankfully they wont matter for the expansion draft. All the NTC/NMC's will not be an issue by then.

At this point, they look like this:

Nielsen - 10 team no trade list (as far as I know, nothing about expansion draft as its no longer a full NMC like it was last time)

Abby - In 2021 NTC becomes void if the Wings dont make the playoffs OR if he is NOT top 9 in TOI. (Can't see him top 9 in 2 years)

Helm - In June 2019 becomes void for a year if the WIngs dont make playoffs (which they didnt)

DD - Can submit a 10 team no trade list (see nothing about Expansion Draft) 

Green, E, Kronwall, Daley - Moot as all will be expired

 

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7 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I think Holland definately left us in a bad spot, and im a Holland fan.

The reason we wont be competitive within the next 3 years is primarily these contracts. But i think yzermam could acclerate to the point we need to burn these sooner. 

I've explained several times why I don't believe any of those contracts, besides maybe Abdelkader's, will hurt us long term. All I get back is, yes they will, without any explanation as to why... If you're going to say these contracts are going to hurt us long term, back it up with reasons why...

7 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

You are forgetting about the expansion draft.  The bad contracts are going to hurt.

None of the "bad" players / contracts will need to be protected in the expansion draft. Not one.

6 hours ago, kliq said:

Thankfully they wont matter for the expansion draft. All the NTC/NMC's will not be an issue by then.

At this point, they look like this:

Nielsen - 10 team no trade list (as far as I know, nothing about expansion draft as its no longer a full NMC like it was last time)

Abby - In 2021 NTC becomes void if the Wings dont make the playoffs OR if he is NOT top 9 in TOI. (Can't see him top 9 in 2 years)

Helm - In June 2019 becomes void for a year if the WIngs dont make playoffs (which they didnt)

DD - Can submit a 10 team no trade list (see nothing about Expansion Draft) 

Green, E, Kronwall, Daley - Moot as all will be expired

Exactly. The only thing I'll add is that NTC's don't matter when it comes to protection in the expansion draft. It's only NMC's that must be protected, and we won't have a single one on the books by the time the expansion draft rolls around.

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11 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

No. I think we're alright right now with these contracts. But the moment we turn the corner and become a playoff team again we need to to start burning those contracts quick. They'll inpede us from signing or trading for guys like Panarin this year.

By the time we're good - Panarin will be stale/moldy :bad:

Edited by F.Michael

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