Is Mike Babcock overrated?

[kickazz 5,459]

5 first round exits in a row. 

Only gotten past 1st round in the playoffs 3 times since 2009 (THAT'S A DECADE...) and lost each time.

Can never seem to deliver in game 7s. (Lost game 7 against Pittsburgh in 2009, San Jose in 2011, Chicago in 2013, Tampa Bay in 2015, Boston in 2018, and now Boston again this year 2019)

Had a stacked roster in 2005/06 season as 1st seed team and lost to Edmonton in 6 games (8th seed). 

 

I imagine this thread may piss off some Babcock fans but I really do think this guy is overrated. I'd say I started feeling that way around 2013 after losing to Chicago and then the Tampa series. But his tenure with Toronto seems to solidify it more and more. 

It also boggles my mind that with players like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom in their primes he managed to only win 1 stanley cup. Meanwhile Bowman maximized what he was given and won 3, Quenneville managed to get 3 with Toews/Kane/Keith, Daryl Sutter got 2 with Kopitar/Doughty. 

Edited April 24, 2019 by kickazz

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Depends on how you rate him.  He's one of the best coaches in the league the last 10 seasons.  However, I agree with those who don't believe he's the undisputed best.  There's other coaches in the last 10 years who are arguably as good or better.  

Remember, though, that Barry Trotz was always considered overrated until last year and this season.  The playoffs can change everything.  Before his last few seasons in Detroit, Babcock was unanimously considered the best because of playoff successes. 

[kickazz 5,459]

12 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

Depends on how you rate him.  He's one of the best coaches in the league the last 10 seasons.  However, I agree with those who don't believe he's the undisputed best.  There's other coaches in the last 10 years who are arguably as good or better.  

Remember, though, that Barry Trotz was always considered overrated until last year and this season.  The playoffs can change everything.  Before his last few seasons in Detroit, Babcock was unanimously considered the best because of playoff successes. 

But like... what playoff successes? He lost to 8th seed Edmonton in 06. Won in 08 but then lost in 09 finals. after being up 3-2 in the series Then never made it past round 2 after that year. 

I'd say he was great between 07-10 and then faded out. I also think he's a great season coach. But I don't know if the guy is as reliable in the playoffs as some of the other coaches in the league. 

Auston Mathews only played 18 minutes tonight...? 

Edited April 24, 2019 by kickazz

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

This is like the most lopsided poll ever. While I was in favor of keeping Babcock, and I believe he's a better coach than Blashill, he is overrated.

[kliq 3,755]

Babs is a great coach, and I would take him back, BUT when people call him the best coach in hockey, he is given 50million for 8 years to be the highest paid coach ever and the guy cant get out of the first round for a decade....I'd say he's overrated. 

1 hour ago, kickazz said:

But like... what playoff successes? He lost to 8th seed Edmonton in 06. Won in 08 but then lost in 09 finals. after being up 3-2 in the series Then never made it past round 2 after that year. 

I'd say he was great between 07-10 and then faded out. I also think he's a great season coach. But I don't know if the guy is as reliable in the playoffs as some of the other coaches in the league. 

Auston Mathews only played 18 minutes tonight...? 

'03 was a great year from him as well, probably his best as a coach as he did so much with so little.

[greenrebellion 415]

Babcock is a legend. But no amount of coaching can overcome the Leafs curse. 

[kickazz 5,459]

7 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

This is like the most lopsided poll ever. While I was in favor of keeping Babcock, and I believe he's a better coach than Blashill, he is overrated.

You should see Toronto Hfboards

[derblaueClaus 1,668]

He definitively is overrated. Babs most successful seasons came in an era when defensive play ruled the ice. But the game has changed over the last years and I think Babs has missed the ship. Add to that his infuriating management of young players and his unshattered love for defensive forwards and you have a coach that certainly isn't the best anymore, if he ever was. Looking at the TOI during the TOR - BOS series looked all too familiar.

Edited April 24, 2019 by derblaueClaus

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

8 hours ago, kliq said:

Babs is a great coach, and I would take him back, BUT when people call him the best coach in hockey, he is given 50million for 8 years to be the highest paid coach ever and the guy cant get out of the first round for a decade....I'd say he's overrated. 

'03 was a great year from him as well, probably his best as a coach as he did so much with so little.

There was nothing little about those pads Giguere wore that year.  

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, derblaueClaus said:

He definitively is overrated. Babs most successful seasons came in an era when defensive play ruled the ice. But the game has changed over the last years and I think Babs has missed the ship. Add to that his infuriating management of young players and his unshattered love for defensive forwards and you have a coach that certainly isn't the best anymore, if he ever was. Looking at the TOI during the TOR - BOS series looked all too familiar.

This pretty much sums it up for me. Good coach, but massively overrated. His arrogance and stubbornness is what pisses me off the most. His systems are good, but his player deployment and situational awareness are atrocious in my opinion. I wouldn't want him back in Detroit, and yes, I'd prefer Blashill over Babcock.

[F.Michael 4,590]

I'm one of two ( CRL being the other) that voted 'No'.

I feel he's a very good coach, but he does has some flaws...For starters - he's the coach of the Leafs, and we all know what goes on there...He's also stubborn, and with that he keeps trying to pound the square peg into the round hole.

I'm not privy as to what goes on behind closed doors, but me thinks he's not on the same page with his GM, nor with the millennials that make up a significant portion of this team (in other words he appears to luv his vets).

With Stevie Y working with him in the past - I wouldn't be surprised if he came back to Detroit.

[krsmith17 7,191]

13 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

I'm one of two ( CRL being the other) that voted 'No'.

I feel he's a very good coach, but he does has some flaws...For starters - he's the coach of the Leafs, and we all know what goes on there...He's also stubborn, and with that he keeps trying to pound the square peg into the round hole.

I'm not privy as to what goes on behind closed doors, but me thinks he's not on the same page with his GM, nor with the millennials that make up a significant portion of this team (in other words he appears to luv his vets).

With Stevie Y working with him in the past - I wouldn't be surprised if he came back to Detroit.

I don't see it happening, but man, I really hope not...

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

I'm one of two ( CRL being the other) that voted 'No'.

I feel he's a very good coach, but he does has some flaws...For starters - he's the coach of the Leafs, and we all know what goes on there...He's also stubborn, and with that he keeps trying to pound the square peg into the round hole.

I'm not privy as to what goes on behind closed doors, but me thinks he's not on the same page with his GM, nor with the millennials that make up a significant portion of this team (in other words he appears to luv his vets).

With Stevie Y working with him in the past - I wouldn't be surprised if he came back to Detroit.

He had a stacked roster with Detroit and  still wasn’t that successful though. He won a single cup, that team had the potential to win multiple cups. In his 10 years in Detroit he got passed round 2 only 3 times...

Dont think he’s worth 50 million 8 years. He’s a good coach. But I don’t think he’s the best coach as some say he is.

The track record speaks for it imo. I’d take Quenneville over him.

Edited April 24, 2019 by kickazz

[F.Michael 4,590]

18 minutes ago, kickazz said:

He had a stacked roster with Detroit and  still wasn’t that successful though. He won a single cup, that team had the potential to win multiple cups. In his 10 years in Detroit he got passed round 2 only 3 times...

Dont think he’s worth 50 million 8 years. He’s a good coach. But I don’t think he’s the best coach as some say he is.

The track record speaks for it imo. I’d take Quenneville over him.

Personally - I think it's fairly easy to lump a teams demise squarely upon the shoulders of any head coach...Then again that's the responsibility of the head coach - to accept the results regardless if they're good, or bad.

I agree - he's not some savior of Leaf Nation that both the fan base, and media in T.O. want/claim him to be (he's a monster that they created).

My only beef was when Chicago came back, and won when they were down 3-1 back in 2010, but by then our roster was that of what we'd see of today's Pens - still capable of making the playoffs, but probably not as good as some of our opponents, and  unless we got the calls/bounces going our way - we might have a hard time making it to the finals (truth be told - had we won that series - that Cup would've been ours).

2009 stung too, but for whatever reason - I don't hold a grudge on that - just 2010 really was gut wrenching.

Those last 3 seasons that Babs was our coach - I think it was pretty clear Ilitch/Holland wanted to keep the streak alive.

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by F.Michael

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

6 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Personally - I think it's fairly easy to lump a teams demise squarely upon the shoulders of any head coach...Then again that's the responsibility of the head coach - to accept the results regardless if they're good, or bad.

I agree - he's not some savior of Leaf Nation that both the fan base, and media in T.O. want/claim him to be (he's a monster that they created).

My only beef was when Chicago came back, and won when they were down 3-1 back in 2010, but by then our roster was that of what we'd see of today's Pens - still capable of making the playoffs, but probably not as good as some of our opponents, and  unless we got the calls/bounces going our way - we might have a hard time making it to the finals (truth be told - had we won that series - that Cup would've been ours).

2009 stung too, but for whatever reason - I don't hold a grudge on that - just 2010 really was gut wrenching.

Those last 3 seasons that Babs was our coach - I think it was pretty clear Ilitch/Holland wanted to keep the streak alive.

 

That was 2013 actually.  

[F.Michael 4,590]

1 minute ago, GMRwings1983 said:

That was 2013 actually.  

See boys and girls...The effects of too much alcohol on the brain...

[kipwinger 8,521]

This thread warms my heart in a way few others have over the years.  I feel...complete?

[kickazz 5,459]

10 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

This thread warms my heart in a way few others have over the years.  I feel...complete?

I wrote the thread with a grin on my face, thinking of you from time to time.

[Learn2LuvIt 245]

Yeah, overrated in regards to what they are paying him for sure.  If I had my pick, there would likely be two current coaches who I'd take over Babs.  However, what happened to the Leafs/Babs last night I believe more a testament to how awesome the NHL Playoff's are and what a massive grind and accomplishment it is to win The Cup.  The "second season" is a bit cliche, but it's soo true and what makes the playoffs compelling even in the 1st round.  Compared to some other pro sports like the NBA, the 1st round is really a formality (e.g. see Piston's basketball).  With the NHL, you never freakin know and "upsets" happen every single year.  Crazy...but awesome.

Babs will have a tough summer and likely a tough road ahead in Toronto indefinitely until he either gets them The Cup or deep (like game 7 of the SCF deep).  He'll bear the brunt from of an old saying he saw here daily in Detroit: "To whom much is given, much is expected". 

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

2 hours ago, F.Michael said:

See boys and girls...The effects of too much alcohol on the brain...

That's why it's not a bad idea to mix your scotch with water from time to time.  

[kickazz 5,459]

Might be the most lopsided poll I’ve seen on this website.

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 hours ago, kickazz said:

Might be the most lopsided poll I’ve seen on this website.

We should have a few polls on who is the 'coolest', the most 'informed/knowledgeable', most 'funny', and of course the most 'handsome/pretty' poster here at LGW.

[kickazz 5,459]

25 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

We should have a few polls on who is the 'coolest', the most 'informed/knowledgeable', most 'funny', and of course the most 'handsome/pretty' poster here at LGW.

Jonas Mahon would win all.

[Barrie 900]

The Leafs defense positioning is horrible. I know Babcock doesn't have much to work with, but you'd think a Stanley Cup and Gold Medal winning coach could come up with a better defensive system. Hockey is fast, but it's a positional game. How hard is it to tell someone to stay in a certain area of the ice? I've not been impressed with his coaching the last two years.

1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

We should have a few polls on who is the 'coolest', the most 'informed/knowledgeable', most 'funny', and of course the most 'handsome/pretty' poster here at LGW.

Those would be fun. I'm in!

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, F.Michael said:

We should have a few polls on who is the 'coolest', the most 'informed/knowledgeable', most 'funny', and of course the most 'handsome/pretty' poster here at LGW.

And you would have just as many wins as u do now.