Holland set to become GM of Oilers

[kickazz 5,459]

You guys should see the reactions from some Oilers fans with Ken Holland signing. 

Lots of trash talking about his “mismanagement / bad contracts” with Detroit.

1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

Will Holland get the same treatment after a few years like Babcock is getting now in Toronto?

There’s already skepticism from some Oilers fans on Twitter. It’s kinda sad. 

Article below has a few highlights.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/predictable-and-disappointing-twitter-reacts-to-news-edmonton-oilers-have-hired-ken-holland/amp

Christian Pagnani
@chrispagnani
Holland obviously had a lot of success in the past, but it’s hard to see Detroit currently and not be concerned. I’m not sure you can hand wave the cap problems and mistakes away in the name of trying to keep the playoff streak alive.

Jeff Veillette
@JeffVeillette
The Oilers will never, ever figure themselves out. All this talk about deep examination, self-reflection, and interviewing people with plans, all to ultimately throw cash at a guy who didn’t interview, whose philosophies are the exact same as the status quo, with ties to the boss

Oilcaholic @oilcaholic
Oiler fans: Get rid of the old boys club.

Oilers: Hire a different older boy.

Dean Millard @DuckMillard
Does anyone else think hiring Ken Holland is a little like Chiarelli?

Like Chiarelli Holland has won it all (more than once) but he has also put the Wings in a bad spot cap wise like Chiarelli did in Boston and Edmonton.

I think Holland is a smart man but I see similarities.

Jon Hagen @Sabres_Nation
Ken Holland is a good GM who made horrible contract decisions the last few years. Can’t make those mistakes again

People think Wings fans are harsh. Oilers fans are cynical as hell and already s***ting on the guy yikes.

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by kickazz

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, kliq said:

Sad to see the reaction of some Wings fans. I grew up a fan of 4 teams, the Wings, Blue Jays, Raptors, and Lions. With the exception of my first two years as a Jays fan, between those 3 teams I never saw a single championship. Lions can't win  playoff game, Raptors have not been relevant until now *fingers crossed*, and outside of a couple good years in 2015 and 2016, the Jays have not been contenders since the '93 team broke up.

In that same time frame, the Wings brought me as a fan 4 Cups, 6 finals appearances, 8 conference finals, and they were contenders every single year from when Holland took over until 2013. In that time frame they even successfully went through a re-build on the fly to win a cup.

There is no question that between 2013 and 2017 we were in a holding pattern of mediocrity, and we made bad moves, likely done to preserve the streak, but regardless of the reason, it happened. During that time we signed some bad contracts, and bad decisions were made, that is for sure, no argument. With that said, since the 2017 TDL the majority of the decisions that have been made have been good and placing us in the right direction

I understand people wanting to move in a different direction, especially with Yzerman, I myself am happy we moved in that direction. But now that Holland is gone, I would think that people would show appreciation for what he accomplished here opposed to having a "dont let the door hit you on the ass" mentality. Its just sad, the Holland chapter is over, rather then judging him for the 4 bad years, or minor mistakes during the good years, lets focus on the 17 good years, and all the championships. I just hope the same people don't turn on Yzerman when the team eventually becomes bad under him, because it happens to everyone eventually. 

As I have said before, Yzerman has the benefit of being a fan hero coming into the position that Holland did not. I think that does give him a "longer leash" among fans. That said, too many fans are fairweather and fickle and will turn on him at the first opportunity. We should archive these posts, cause some of these guys praising Stevie now will be the same ones who call for his head the first time he doesn't do what they want.

[kickazz 5,459]

2 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

As I have said before, Yzerman has the benefit of being a fan hero coming into the position that Holland did not. I think that does give him a "longer leash" among fans. That said, too many fans are fairweather and fickle and will turn on him at the first opportunity. We should archive these posts, cause some of these guys praising Stevie now will be the same ones who call for his head the first time he doesn't do what they want.

In order for people to turn on Yzerman, we would have to continue to regress, and get worse. 

If we get better, I doubt people will turn on him anytime soon. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

14 minutes ago, kickazz said:

You guys should see the reactions from some Oilers fans with Ken Holland signing. 

Lots of trash talking about his “mismanagement / bad contracts” with Detroit.

There’s already skepticism from some Oilers fans on Twitter. It’s kinda sad. 

Article below has a few highlights.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/nhl/cult-of-hockey/predictable-and-disappointing-twitter-reacts-to-news-edmonton-oilers-have-hired-ken-holland/amp

Doesn't matter. Oilers will never be relevant again anyway. Canadian franchise taking in Canadian dollars and paying salaries in US dollars. And a small market to boot. Canada or not, the deck is stacked against them. They'll end up in a US market eventually.

3 minutes ago, kickazz said:

In order for people to turn on Yzerman, we would have to continue to regress, and get worse. 

If we get better, I doubt people will turn on him anytime soon. 

Agreed. But the NHL has this "wonderful" thing called "parity" now. Yzerman won't be successful forever. This team will inevitably start to decline again. When it does, the wolves will come out.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[kickazz 5,459]

25 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Doesn't matter. Oilers will never be relevant again anyway. Canadian franchise taking in Canadian dollars and paying salaries in US dollars. And a small market to boot. Canada or not, the deck is stacked against them. They'll end up in a US market eventually.

Agreed. But the NHL has this "wonderful" thing called "parity" now. Yzerman won't be successful forever. This team will inevitably start to decline again. When it does, the wolves will come out.

Rightfully so though. The expectation for Yzerman (any GM) is to do well. If we regress worse than the shyte we are now for the next 5-7 years continuously then Yzerman should be fired. But if it’s just been a couple of years then no. 

The issue with Holland was lack of a contingency plan in late 2000s and his reliance on Zets/Dats/Lidstrom. It just went on for nearly 6 years or so. In the last 2-3 years he did a decent job of drafting. But it was too late to recover from fan skepticism from 2012-2016 or whatever it was. It also didn’t help that he signed some bad contracts even though he drafted solid players; just added more to fan skepticism. Tough recovery for Holland in the eyes of fans. 

With Yzerman, the narrative is “well he’s taking over a s***ty cap/roster full of young guys, he has to fix Holland’s mess, let’s give him time” 

But like you mention “parity”. That’s where the slippery slope is. There will be some dramatic fans getting pissed when we get eliminated in playoffs early rounds a few years in a row. But all we can do is hope for the best when we get there. 

All I want is us to be a contender. Get us at least to the conference finals. If Yzerman can get us there, I’ll say he did a fine job.

 

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by kickazz

[kickazz 5,459]

I approve of Holland’s decision to leave. He did what was best for himself and his family. At the end of the day, that’s what matters. I’m a little butt hurt how quickly he bounced, but I also get it and frankly I’m impressed how he set himself up.

I cant say “good luck” to him. Because I want Edmonton and any team not named Detroit Red Wings to fail. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 hours ago, kliq said:

Sad to see the reaction of some Wings fans. I grew up a fan of 4 teams, the Wings, Blue Jays, Raptors, and Lions. With the exception of my first two years as a Jays fan, between those 3 teams I never saw a single championship. Lions can't win  playoff game, Raptors have not been relevant until now *fingers crossed*, and outside of a couple good years in 2015 and 2016, the Jays have not been contenders since the '93 team broke up.

In that same time frame, the Wings brought me as a fan 4 Cups, 6 finals appearances, 8 conference finals, and they were contenders every single year from when Holland took over until 2013. In that time frame they even successfully went through a re-build on the fly to win a cup.

There is no question that between 2013 and 2017 we were in a holding pattern of mediocrity, and we made bad moves, likely done to preserve the streak, but regardless of the reason, it happened. During that time we signed some bad contracts, and bad decisions were made, that is for sure, no argument. With that said, since the 2017 TDL the majority of the decisions that have been made have been good and placing us in the right direction

I understand people wanting to move in a different direction, especially with Yzerman, I myself am happy we moved in that direction. But now that Holland is gone, I would think that people would show appreciation for what he accomplished here opposed to having a "dont let the door hit you on the ass" mentality. Its just sad, the Holland chapter is over, rather then judging him for the 4 bad years, or minor mistakes during the good years, lets focus on the 17 good years, and all the championships. I just hope the same people don't turn on Yzerman when the team eventually becomes bad under him, because it happens to everyone eventually. 

 Well said. Exactly how I feel about the whole situation.

7 hours ago, F.Michael said:

Unless Holland has a few tricks up his sleeve - it's gonna take 2, or 3 seasons before they're playoff bound...I've been wrong before.

Realistically, you're probably right. It probably should take another couple years. However, a team with the best player in the world, a competent GM, and a decent coach, could squeak in as early as next season.

6 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Doesn't matter. Oilers will never be relevant again anyway. Canadian franchise taking in Canadian dollars and paying salaries in US dollars. And a small market to boot. Canada or not, the deck is stacked against them. They'll end up in a US market eventually.

"Never be relevant again"? Really? You're smarter than that... Canadian teams are definitely at a disadvantage because of the exchange rate, but that doesn't mean they'll fold their franchise. The Oilers aren't going anywhere, and I expect them to start trending upward, especially with the addition of Holland.

[Dabura 12,207]

Holland is good people and he did incredible things for this franchise. I wish him the best.

[toby91_ca 620]

11 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Doesn't matter. Oilers will never be relevant again anyway. Canadian franchise taking in Canadian dollars and paying salaries in US dollars. And a small market to boot. Canada or not, the deck is stacked against them. They'll end up in a US market eventually.

Yet their operating income is in the top half of the league (close to top ten).

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Hopefully he takes some of his players with him

 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

9 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

 Well said. Exactly how I feel about the whole situation.

Realistically, you're probably right. It probably should take another couple years. However, a team with the best player in the world, a competent GM, and a decent coach, could squeak in as early as next season.

"Never be relevant again"? Really? You're smarter than that... Canadian teams are definitely at a disadvantage because of the exchange rate, but that doesn't mean they'll fold their franchise. The Oilers aren't going anywhere, and I expect them to start trending upward, especially with the addition of Holland.

They havent been relevant since 1990. One fluke cup final in '06 since. They were great in their earlier days after coming over from the WHA into the NHL, but they havent been a factor since. They're going on 30 years of irrelevancy. There's a lot to blame for that, but being a small market Canada based franchise is part of it. Ottawa, QC, Calgary, and Winnipeg have all had serious struggles over the years as well. It is what it is. Growing the NHL in the US will eventually ruin the smaller Canadian franchises. That's just the way it is.

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

Hopefully he takes some of his players with him

 

Meh, its only a matter of time before you turn on Yzerman and call him an idiot, or make up a name like Yzertard or Yzermmoron or something.

Edited May 6, 2019 by kliq

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, kliq said:

Meh, its only a matter of time before you turn on Yzerman and call him an idiot, or make up a name like Yzertard or Yzermmoron or something.

I have had it up to here with you Holland apologists

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I have had it up to here with you Holland apologists

Just look at that nerd. Who does he think he is? Dubas? 

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

They havent been relevant since 1990. One fluke cup final in '06 since. They were great in their earlier days after coming over from the WHA into the NHL, but they havent been a factor since. They're going on 30 years of irrelevancy. There's a lot to blame for that, but being a small market Canada based franchise is part of it. Ottawa, QC, Calgary, and Winnipeg have all had serious struggles over the years as well. It is what it is. Growing the NHL in the US will eventually ruin the smaller Canadian franchises. That's just the way it is.

The Oilers will not "end up in a US market eventually". Look where Pittsburgh were before they got Lemieux and later Crosby... or where Edmonton were before they got Gretzky (and later McDavid)... Oilers will be back in the playoffs *within* 3 years, and win a Cup *within* 10 years...

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

8 hours ago, toby91_ca said:

Yet their operating income is in the top half of the league (close to top ten).

I didnt say anything about operating income. I said they take in Canadian dollars and pay out American ones. They're on the wrong side of the exchange rate. That works against them. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

The Oilers will not "end up in a US market eventually". Look where Pittsburgh were before they got Lemieux and later Crosby... or where Edmonton were before they got Gretzky (and later McDavid)... Oilers will be back in the playoffs *within* 3 years, and win a Cup *within* 10 years...

It happened in QC and Winnipeg and Ottawa soon enough. What makes u think Edmonton is immune? Success will have little to do with it. Smaller markets cant compete in the long run. You only have so many people to buy tickets and merchandise.

[krsmith17 7,191]

9 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

It happened in QC and Winnipeg and Ottawa soon enough. What makes u think Edmonton is immune? Success will have little to do with it. Smaller markets cant compete in the long run. You only have so many people to buy tickets and merchandise.

What makes you think the Oilers are a "small market" team? They're not. Right, you only have so many people to buy tickets and merchandise. The people in Edmonton are buying both, despite the team being s***. Imagine when they actually get good in a few years. They will get there. Mark it. Oilers aren't going anywhere...

[toby91_ca 620]

38 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I didnt say anything about operating income. I said they take in Canadian dollars and pay out American ones. They're on the wrong side of the exchange rate. That works against them. 

??? Do you understand the components of operating income?  Essentially, revenues less operating expenses (largely payroll).....so operating income is exactly what you should be thinking about.....so yes, if CAD weakens against USD, it hurts them as their revenue is largely denominated in CAD and their payroll is largely denominated in USD....however, clearly their revenues are better than more than half the league, even considering the exchange rate......so it doesn't seem to be an issue.  Exchange rate can go both ways too.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Holland's wife should have consulted Pronger's wife before agreeing to this move.  

[toby91_ca 620]

54 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

The Oilers will not "end up in a US market eventually". Look where Pittsburgh were before they got Lemieux and later Crosby... or where Edmonton were before they got Gretzky (and later McDavid)... Oilers will be back in the playoffs *within* 3 years, and win a Cup *within* 10 years...

Edmonton had Gretzky from their first season in the NHL....they lost in the 1st round of the playoffs their first season, lost in the 2nd round in their 2nd season, lost in the Stanley Cup finals in their 3rd season and then won the Cup 4 of the next 5 years.

[Wings3:16 318]

Holland was pretty good post playoff streak when he got off his ass and started rebuilding. I'm very interested to see how he does - I was never all that high on him but he's not a terrible GM compared to a lot of teams.

[Dabura 12,207]

I think Holland will be fine. He has the best player in the league in McDavid and a franchise centerman in Draisaitl. He needs to assemble a competent supporting cast. That's about it. The Oilers have been so badly mismanaged that McDavid's somehow gone, like, two whole seasons without an actual high-end scoring winger flanking him (unless you count Draisaitl, who should be playing in the middle). It's mind-boggling.

[krsmith17 7,191]

39 minutes ago, toby91_ca said:

Edmonton had Gretzky from their first season in the NHL....they lost in the 1st round of the playoffs their first season, lost in the 2nd round in their 2nd season, lost in the Stanley Cup finals in their 3rd season and then won the Cup 4 of the next 5 years.

Okay... I'm not sure what you're getting at here... Are you trying to refute what I'm saying because the Gretzky era Oilers are ahead of the McDavid era Oilers? Are you agreeing with what I'm saying? Or are you just stating facts to add onto what I'm saying?...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

I think you guys seriously underestimate how much there is to be made/lost in exchange rates.

That said, I dont think Oilers are going anywhere. Weve been saying theyre on the verge of greatness for like 10 years now though. But I have faith Holland can fix that team if the backroom lets him do his thing. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by ChristopherReevesLegs