2020 Offseason Rebuild Thread

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I'm saving this quote for later

If you're going to save the quote, you better save the whole quote...

Seriously though, I'm excited to see what Berggren could do, but I need to remind myself that he could be another Jurco. The Big 5 I mentioned, I think are safe bets to all become regular NHLers, and I believe at least 3 of them will be high, high end...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

I mean, that's pretty obvious based on everything he's done since taking over the team. Is sucking for another year a good thing?  There are definitely some drawbacks. 

I was definitely hoping he was going to accelerate things.

But oh well I guess, tanking is a legitimate strategy in the modern world of socialized sports. Just means we have to watch another year of boring basement hockey.

I think waiting for certain contracts to expire is also somewhat of a thing. Though he did have cap space.

[Dabura 12,206]

14 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Maybe so.  But one page ago you pointed out that we have a hole at 2C, acknowledged that Yzerman didn't fill that hole, but then gave him credit for improving "depth" by signing a center who is worse than the s***ty 3C we already have (who is obviously not good enough to be a 2C).

I don't care that he didn't fill the 2C hole. I don't care that he signed some veteran stopgaps. In fact, I said numerous times that he was probably going to sign veteran stopgaps. It's what he did in his first offseason as Tampa's GM. It's only disappointing to people who are laboring under the illusion that we're anything but an organization that's still in the middle of a painful rebuild. Maybe he could've acquired Marleau. Maybe he shouldn't have signed the UFAs that he signed. I dunno.

At the end of the day, I don't think it really matters all that much. We suck, there's basically nothing we can do to truly accelerate the rebuild timeline right now, we need to get some (more) elite talent in the pipeline, we need to endure some more pain for a little while longer. I don't like the situation, but it is what it is. Yzerman felt we could use some depth (I explained that we basically had no decent veteran shutdown defenseman outside of DeKeyser and that having another Nielsen gives us a bit more depth) and it didn't come at great cost, so whatevz.

[kipwinger 8,492]

5 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I'm saving this quote for later

You heard it here first, Moritz Seider went from being a prospect ranked no higher than 10th, and most frequently between 20-30th to a "can't miss" prospect in a few short weeks.  And none of that has anything to do with Yzerman inspired rose colored glasses.  He really is that damn good. 

Speaking of confirmation bias, a few years ago the dorks over at Winging it in Motown wrote an article titled "Why Brendan Smith Really is That Damn Good".  They had long been Smith fanboys and not matter how often I pointed out that Smith's advanced stats were no better than Kindl's (and often worse), they weren't having it.  I throw that in their face a few  times a year whenever Smith is mentioned in any capacity.  There's a lot for fans to learn from the Brendan Smith fiasco. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

You heard it here first, Moritz Seider went from being a prospect ranked no higher than 10th, and most frequently between 20-30th to a "can't miss" prospect in a few short weeks.  And none of that has anything to do with Yzerman inspired rose colored glasses.  He really is that damn good. 

Speaking of confirmation bias, a few years ago the dorks over at Winging it in Motown wrote an article titled "Why Brendan Smith Really is That Damn Good".  They had long been Smith fanboys and not matter how often I pointed out that Smith's advanced stats were no better than Kindl's (and often worse), they weren't having it.  I throw that in their face a few  times a year whenever Smith is mentioned in any capacity.  There's a lot for fans to learn from the Brendan Smith fiasco. 

You're talking to the wrong guy. I think I was the only one around here who was publicly super high on Seider before draft day. That said, you're not wrong. I often prefaced my glowing posts about Seider with "but we're probably not taking him at 6". Considering the amount of huffing and puffing that went around when we took Rasmussen at 9, there should have been outright revolt when we took Seider at 6. The Yzerman effect is a potent intoxicant.

WIIM is run by literal retards. Have you ever listened to their podcast? It's totally insufferable. I'd never describe someone as having a "punchable face" if I'd never actually seen their face, but with them I think the description fits.

[kipwinger 8,492]

4 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I don't care that he didn't fill the 2C hole. I don't care that he signed some veteran stopgaps. In fact, I said numerous times that he was probably going to sign veteran stopgaps. It's what he did in his first offseason as Tampa's GM. It's only disappointing to people who are laboring under the illusion that we're anything but an organization that's still in the middle of a painful rebuild. Maybe he could've acquired Marleau. Maybe he shouldn't have signed the UFAs that he signed. I dunno.

At the end of the day, I don't think it really matters all that much. We suck, there's basically nothing we can do to truly accelerate the rebuild timeline right now, we need to get some (more) elite talent in the pipeline, we need to endure some more pain for a little while longer. I don't like the situation, but it is what it is. Yzerman felt we could use some depth (I explained that we basically had no decent veteran shutdown defenseman outside of DeKeyser and that having another Nielsen gives us a bit more depth) and it didn't come at great cost, so whatevz.

You should care about the hole at 2C.  We currently have nobody on our NHL team who can do it, we have ONE decent center prospect, and we didn't draft any higher end centers this year. So basically one, not very good, option for filling a massive hole on our team going forward.

I also disagree with the bolded.  The Rangers were on almost the exact same rebuild timeline as we are and have drafted in the first round 6 times in three years, traded for a 25 year old top pair defenseman they're about to re-sign, and landed a premier free agent.  That's obviously a pretty aggressive improvement in a short period of time.  Meanwhile we're reluctant to trade Luke Glendening, despite obvious interest in him, because how else would we ever find a 4th line center?  Suggesting that our current hyper-conservative approach to rebuilding is inevitable, and unavoidable, seems like apologism to the absolute max.

3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You're talking to the wrong guy. I think I was the only one around here who was publicly super high on Seider before draft day. That said, you're not wrong. I often prefaced my glowing posts about Seider with "but we're probably not taking him at 6". Considering the amount of huffing and puffing that went around when we took Rasmussen at 9, there should have been outright revolt when we took Seider at 6. The Yzerman effect is a potent intoxicant.

WIIM is run by literal retards. Have you ever listened to their podcast? It's totally insufferable. I'd never describe someone as having a "punchable face" if I'd never actually seen their face, but with them I think the description fits.

Agreed. 

 

Agreed.

[Dabura 12,206]

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

You heard it here first, Moritz Seider went from being a prospect ranked no higher than 10th, and most frequently between 20-30th to a "can't miss" prospect in a few short weeks.  And none of that has anything to do with Yzerman inspired rose colored glasses.  He really is that damn good.

Seider was a late riser, same as Kotkaniemi the year before. I noted back in mid-May that he was getting a lot of love:

On 5/12/2019 at 11:09 AM, Dabura said:

One guy who's starting to get a lot of love is Moritz Seider. Hulking right-shot defenseman. Really good skater for his size, good two-way game, likes to play physically, good puck-mover, great arsenal of shots, could become an absolute terror working the point in the o-zone. He, more than anyone else, is really making me wish we had another 1st-round pick in this draft.

Craigh Button had him going 11th in his final mock draft. Cam Robinson (Dobber Prospcts) had Seider and Broberg both going in the top ten (though, he explicitly stated that he didn't feel they should go that early). Post-draft, we've heard whispers about multiple teams in the 6-11ish range wanting Seider and that this partly explains why Yzerman didn't trade down.

Seider's a good player. I had wanted Zegras, but, as I've said before, I'm not sure I buy that Seider was a huge reach.

13 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Speaking of confirmation bias, a few years ago the dorks over at Winging it in Motown wrote an article titled "Why Brendan Smith Really is That Damn Good".  They had long been Smith fanboys and not matter how often I pointed out that Smith's advanced stats were no better than Kindl's (and often worse), they weren't having it.  I throw that in their face a few  times a year whenever Smith is mentioned in any capacity.  There's a lot for fans to learn from the Brendan Smith fiasco. 

WIIM sucks. On this much we can agree.

[F.Michael 4,590]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Iconoclastic in what way?  I've always been against bringing in Yzerman as the GM. Primarily because he had exactly 1 finals appearance on his list of accomplishments despite being gifted a superstar center/goal scorer and Norris caliber defenseman before he even moved his "World's Best GM" coffee cup into his new office.  The magnum opus of his GMing came this year when his version of "best team ever assembled" got SMASHED by a clearly inferior team because...wait for it...the big, slow, unskilled, defensemen he seems to love so much couldn't (shocker) withstand an aggressive forecheck. 

ALL of which I've pointed out over and over while all you dorks were gushing over "The Captain is coming home...durrrr".  There were plenty of reason NOT to like Steve Yzerman as the GM but you'd have to actually be open to the idea that he might not be a good idea, and doing so apparently makes you an iconoclast. 

I can only imagine your reaction when he hires Babcock to replace Blashill...

 

[Dabura 12,206]

6 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Considering the amount of huffing and puffing that went around when we took Rasmussen at 9, there should have been outright revolt when we took Seider at 6.

Disagree. Rasmussen was pegged as a one-trick pony, a power-play/net-front guy who cleans up around the net and doesn't do much else. Easy to clean up around the net as a 6'6" player in the OHL. NHL? Another story.

Seider did well in a men's league. He's dynamic, there's a ton to like about him. Projecting him as a good two-way top-pairing defenseman doesn't seem like a stretch.

[Dabura 12,206]

20 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

You should care about the hole at 2C.  We currently have nobody on our NHL team who can do it, we have ONE decent center prospect, and we didn't draft any higher end centers this year. So basically one, not very good, option for filling a massive hole on our team going forward.

We'll see if Veleno is up to the task in a couple of years. If not, we can go hunting for a 2C on the trade market or in free agency, or maybe someone else in our prospect pool will have emerged. Hell, maybe AA settles into that role.

20 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I also disagree with the bolded.  The Rangers were on almost the exact same rebuild timeline as we are and have drafted in the first round 6 times in three years, traded for a 25 year old top pair defenseman they're about to re-sign, and landed a premier free agent.  That's obviously a pretty aggressive improvement in a short period of time.  Meanwhile we're reluctant to trade Luke Glendening, despite obvious interest in him, because how else would we ever find a 4th line center?  Suggesting that our current hyper-conservative approach to rebuilding is inevitable, and unavoidable, seems like apologism to the absolute max.

The Rangers were in the same boat as us right up until the moment they placed 2nd in the draft lotto. I suspect getting that pick emboldened Jeff Gorton and he decided Kakko + a couple big splashes = rebuild over. We'll see how they perform next season. Personally, I'm not entirely sold on that team. They could be a force next season or they could be thoroughly middling.

I think if we'd gotten Kakko, Yzerman probably would've made a bold move or two. Instead, we picked 6th, so it's business as usual for at least another season. Sucks, but it is what it is.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Dabura

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

8 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Disagree. Rasmussen was pegged as a one-trick pony, a power-play/net-front guy who cleans up around the net and doesn't do much else. Easy to clean up around the net as a 6'6" player in the OHL. NHL? Another story.

Seider did well in a men's league. He's dynamic, there's a ton to like about him. Projecting him as a good two-way top-pairing defenseman doesn't seem like a stretch.

No convincing needed. I think apple seider is tart yet delicious

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 minutes ago, Dabura said:

We'll see if Veleno is up to the task in a couple of years. If not, we can go hunting for a 2C on the trade market or in free agency, or maybe someone else in our prospect pool will have emerged. Hell, maybe AA settles into that role.

The Rangers were in the same boat as us right up until the moment they placed 2nd in the draft lotto. I suspect getting that pick emboldened Jeff Gorton and he decided Kakko + a couple big splashes = rebuild over. We'll see how they perform this season. Personally, I'm not entirely sold on that team. They could be a force next season or they could be thoroughly middling.

I think if we'd gotten Kakko, Yzerman probably would've made a bold move or two. Instead, we picked 6th, so it's business as usual for at least another season. Sucks, but it is what it is.

And as of right now it appears Trouba may only play 1 season for the Rags...

[kipwinger 8,492]

11 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

I can only imagine your reaction when he hires Babcock to replace Blashill...

 

That would imply Babcock got fired by Toronto for failing to advance in the playoffs despite an absurdly good roster (yet again).  And THAT would finally, demonstrably, prove that Babcock sucks as much as I always say he does.  So yeah, I'd be pretty annoyed.

[Dabura 12,206]

3 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

And as of right now it appears Trouba may only play 1 season for the Rags...

So our 2020-21 blue line could be...

DeKeyser  Trouba
Nemeth  Hronek
Cholowski  Seider

Seems pretty decent to me.

[derblaueClaus 1,668]

2 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Iconoclastic in what way?  I've always been against bringing in Yzerman as the GM. Primarily because he had exactly 1 finals appearance on his list of accomplishments despite being gifted a superstar center/goal scorer and Norris caliber defenseman before he even moved his "World's Best GM" coffee cup into his new office.  The magnum opus of his GMing came this year when his version of "best team ever assembled" got SMASHED by a clearly inferior team because...wait for it...the big, slow, unskilled, defensemen he seems to love so much couldn't (shocker) withstand an aggressive forecheck. 

ALL of which I've pointed out over and over while all you dorks were gushing over "The Captain is coming home...durrrr".  There were plenty of reason NOT to like Steve Yzerman as the GM but you'd have to actually be open to the idea that he might not be a good idea, and doing so apparently makes you an iconoclast. 

That is a pretty bold statement given that a team build by Yzerman just won the Presidents Trophy by a mile and almost beat a record held by a pre-cap Red Wings team, that was supposed never to fall in a league that promotes parity like there is no tomorrow. Yes, that team also lost four in a row in post season after that. It happens in sport. But four ******* games don't make or break Yzermans superb performance as a GM in Tampa.

[LeftWinger 4,934]

I admit, I am wearing the Yzerman glasses.  IF Holland made these picks, I'd have popped a vein in my head!  

That being said, what I've seen of Seider thus far is nice.  Could end up being a steal.  The two little ball's of hate we got impress me as well.  Pretty sure they will be NHL players sooner rather than never.  

The 2020-21 rebuild, consider that as of right now ( I know we have a lot of players to re-sign) we have $36M in cap space and up to $6M more if needed with Z on LTIR.  That's $42M for re-signing the RFA's, promoting yoots and maybe making a splash in UFA.  Can we just skip the 19-20 season?

 

[F.Michael 4,590]

4 hours ago, Dabura said:

I don't care that he didn't fill the 2C hole. I don't care that he signed some veteran stopgaps. In fact, I said numerous times that he was probably going to sign veteran stopgaps. It's what he did in his first offseason as Tampa's GM. It's only disappointing to people who are laboring under the illusion that we're anything but an organization that's still in the middle of a painful rebuild. Maybe he could've acquired Marleau. Maybe he shouldn't have signed the UFAs that he signed. I dunno.

At the end of the day, I don't think it really matters all that much. We suck, there's basically nothing we can do to truly accelerate the rebuild timeline right now, we need to get some (more) elite talent in the pipeline, we need to endure some more pain for a little while longer. I don't like the situation, but it is what it is. Yzerman felt we could use some depth (I explained that we basically had no decent veteran shutdown defenseman outside of DeKeyser and that having another Nielsen gives us a bit more depth) and it didn't come at great cost, so whatevz.

This...People here need to come their senses for f**ks sake.

The guy has been on the job for a few months, and some are already gathering supplies for the lynching.

3 hours ago, derblaueClaus said:

That is a pretty bold statement given that a team build by Yzerman just won the Presidents Trophy by a mile and almost beat a record held by a pre-cap Red Wings team, that was supposed never to fall in a league that promotes parity like there is no tomorrow. Yes, that team also lost four in a row in post season after that. It happens in sport. But four ******* games don't make or break Yzermans superb performance as a GM in Tampa.

Another solid post.

People need to chill, and give the man a few seasons to work his magic.

[kipwinger 8,492]

6 hours ago, derblaueClaus said:

That is a pretty bold statement given that a team build by Yzerman just won the Presidents Trophy by a mile and almost beat a record held by a pre-cap Red Wings team, that was supposed never to fall in a league that promotes parity like there is no tomorrow. Yes, that team also lost four in a row in post season after that. It happens in sport. But four ******* games don't make or break Yzermans superb performance as a GM in Tampa.

If ALMOST beating the Red Wings points record and then getting MAULED in the playoffs makes Yzeramn a superb GM then actually having the points record and losing in the Conference Finals makes Jim Devellano a god.  Yzerman's Lightening team also missed the playoffs 3 out of his 9 years as GM and got bounced in the first round two other years despite having superstar talent in their primes. So yeah, sorry if I think his list of accomplishments is pretty thin. 

[Buppy 1,720]

2 hours ago, F.Michael said:

This...People here need to come their senses for f**ks sake.

The guy has been on the job for a few months, and some are already gathering supplies for the lynching.

Another solid post.

People need to chill, and give the man a few seasons to work his magic.

Some people didn't want him in the first place. Some of us had doubts before he got here.

Yes, he's only been here a few months. And in that time he reached with our two highest draft picks, then made two UFA signings of the exact variety people said Holland was so awful for making. You can tell yourself that this was the start of the Yzerman Era you've always dreamed of, but we all know it's not.

And he was a GM in Tampa for 9 years, with the luxury of starting with Stamkos, Hedman, St.Louis, the 6th overall pick, and more. Enough to make it to the conference finals in year one. Regressed after that but added 3rd, 10th, and 19th overall picks from those years for the trouble. Had Johnson and Palat emerge 6 years ago, and Kucherov the year after, plus more draft finds after that....

And all he has to show for it is one loss in the Finals, one President's Trophy paired with an embarrassing first round sweep, and even missed the palyoffs one year because Stamkos got hurt. He's had as much success drafting as you could reasonably hope for, somehow even without any of his high picks being very good, yet hasn't won anything. 

Maybe he just hasn't had the luck you need in the playoffs. Or maybe he's just not that good at tweaking a team. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Yzerman did good things in Tampa, but never won it all, sure. Seems like we needed a change though, at least for PR reasons. The hiring of the captain has pretty much successfully quelled all the discontent fans, despite the fact that he's so far continuing Holland's master plan.

I'm willing to give Yzerman the benefit of the doubt for now and see what he does. I did like how Holland was handling things once the rebuild began, so a continuation of that for right now is fine for me.

My concern is for when the rebuild ends, Yzerman's moves begin coming to fruition, and the long honeymoon is finally over. If Seider turns out to be no better than Danny Dekeyser or something HOLLLLLLEEEEEEEE s*** people will be pissed, and rightfully so. He has about a 2 to 4 year leash I'd say to make shrewd moves and improve this roster. If for whatever reason that doesn't go well it will be tough to see the fanbase turn on Yzerman.

[Dabura 12,206]

On 7/18/2019 at 6:35 PM, F.Michael said:

This...People here need to come their senses for f**ks sake.

The guy has been on the job for a few months, and some are already gathering supplies for the lynching.

Another solid post.

People need to chill, and give the man a few seasons to work his magic.

On 7/18/2019 at 9:52 PM, Buppy said:

Some people didn't want him in the first place. Some of us had doubts before he got here.

Yes, he's only been here a few months. And in that time he reached with our two highest draft picks, then made two UFA signings of the exact variety people said Holland was so awful for making. You can tell yourself that this was the start of the Yzerman Era you've always dreamed of, but we all know it's not.

And he was a GM in Tampa for 9 years, with the luxury of starting with Stamkos, Hedman, St.Louis, the 6th overall pick, and more. Enough to make it to the conference finals in year one. Regressed after that but added 3rd, 10th, and 19th overall picks from those years for the trouble. Had Johnson and Palat emerge 6 years ago, and Kucherov the year after, plus more draft finds after that....

And all he has to show for it is one loss in the Finals, one President's Trophy paired with an embarrassing first round sweep, and even missed the palyoffs one year because Stamkos got hurt. He's had as much success drafting as you could reasonably hope for, somehow even without any of his high picks being very good, yet hasn't won anything. 

Maybe he just hasn't had the luck you need in the playoffs. Or maybe he's just not that good at tweaking a team. 

On 7/19/2019 at 1:38 PM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yzerman did good things in Tampa, but never won it all, sure. Seems like we needed a change though, at least for PR reasons. The hiring of the captain has pretty much successfully quelled all the discontent fans, despite the fact that he's so far continuing Holland's master plan.

I'm willing to give Yzerman the benefit of the doubt for now and see what he does. I did like how Holland was handling things once the rebuild began, so a continuation of that for right now is fine for me.

My concern is for when the rebuild ends, Yzerman's moves begin coming to fruition, and the long honeymoon is finally over. If Seider turns out to be no better than Danny Dekeyser or something HOLLLLLLEEEEEEEE s*** people will be pissed, and rightfully so. He has about a 2 to 4 year leash I'd say to make shrewd moves and improve this roster. If for whatever reason that doesn't go well it will be tough to see the fanbase turn on Yzerman.

I guess I'm kinda neutral on all of this; I was ok with Holland staying on and I'm ok with Yzerman replacing him. I'm not convinced Yzerman is an upgrade over Holland (I discussed my concerns about Yzerman at length a few months ago), but, either way, it was probably time for a change. Fan resentment towards Holland had gotten so loud that it was threatening to become part of the Red Wings brand. Bad energy. Bad vibes. It became clear this past season that the Yzerman-or-bust movement would only continue to grow louder and louder until A) we got Yzerman or B) those angry fans became apathetic and tuned out. From a business perspective, the only thing worse than angry fans is numb, disinterested fans.

Do I think Holland would've been crucified for doing what Yzerman's done this offseason? Yup. Do I think that's stupid? Yup. Do I think the fart-sniffing pundit class has, for years now, been too quick to shower Yzerman with praise and equally quick to rain scorn down on Holland? Yup. Do I think that's stupid? Yup. Do I think it's very possible that if Yzerman doesn't inherit Stamkos and Hedman, the Lightning rebuild goes sideways and he gets fired after a few seasons? Yup.

Is any of this enough to keep me up at night? Nah.

I'm willing to give Yzerman the benefit of the doubt for the time being. I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm telling myself that the brain trust is just trying to run out the clock on a number of our veteran contracts and that the end of those contracts wil be the end of the status quo holding pattern we've been stuck in.

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

I guess I'm kinda neutral on all of this; I was ok with Holland staying on and I'm ok with Yzerman replacing him. I'm not convinced Yzerman is an upgrade over Holland (I discussed my concerns about Yzerman at length a few months ago), but, either way, it was probably time for a change. Fan resentment towards Holland had gotten so loud that it was threatening to become part of the Red Wings brand. Bad energy. Bad vibes. It became clear this past season that the Yzerman-or-bust movement would only continue to grow louder and louder until A) we got Yzerman or B) those angry fans became apathetic and tuned out. From a business perspective, the only thing worse than angry fans is numb, disinterested fans.

Do I think Holland would've been crucified for doing what Yzerman's done this offseason? Yup. Do I think that's stupid? Yup. Do I think the fart-sniffing pundit class has, for years now, been too quick to shower Yzerman with praise and equally quick to rain scorn down on Holland? Yup. Do I think that's stupid? Yup. Do I think it's very possible that if Yzerman doesn't inherit Stamkos and Hedman, the Lightning rebuild goes sideways and he gets fired after a few seasons? Yup.

Is any of this enough to keep me up at night? Nah.

I'm willing to give Yzerman the benefit of the doubt for the time being. I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm telling myself that the brain trust is just trying to run out the clock on a number of our veteran contracts and that the end of those contracts wil be the end of the status quo holding pattern we've been stuck in.

Be it Holland ,or Yzerman - I'm still expecting a few years of mediocrity...It comes down to luck at the draft, a few shrewd moves via trade/ufa, and keeping our rfa's in check with reasonable contracts.

[Buppy 1,720]

5 hours ago, Dabura said:

...

I'm willing to give Yzerman the benefit of the doubt for the time being. I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm telling myself that the brain trust is just trying to run out the clock on a number of our veteran contracts and that the end of those contracts wil be the end of the status quo holding pattern we've been stuck in.

That's mostly what I'm afraid of, to be honest. That he plans to take a couple years to get up to speed, and then start to work on his vision for what he wants to build. That we've gone from being 3+ years into a rebuild to multiple years away from starting one. 

[13dangledangle 957]

9 hours ago, Buppy said:

That's mostly what I'm afraid of, to be honest. That he plans to take a couple years to get up to speed, and then start to work on his vision for what he wants to build. That we've gone from being 3+ years into a rebuild to multiple years away from starting one. 

I think it feels worse because Holland and Co. were more concerned about keeping the playoff streak alive then starting the inevitable rebuild so it feels like we've been in it for a while.  He also gave out some horrible untradeable contracts that are part of the problem right now too.  Once Holland got his head into the rebuild game the last two seasons I think he did a great job, Yzerman will carry on very much the same way.  I was definitely one of the Yzerman fan boys hoping he'd some day come home, I have faith he'll get it done...I want to see that crazy story book ending where Yzerman brings the cup back to Detroit 

[krsmith17 7,191]

51 minutes ago, 13dangledangle said:

I think it feels worse because Holland and Co. were more concerned about keeping the playoff streak alive then starting the inevitable rebuild so it feels like we've been in it for a while.  He also gave out some horrible untradeable contracts that are part of the problem right now too.  Once Holland got his head into the rebuild game the last two seasons I think he did a great job, Yzerman will carry on very much the same way.  I was definitely one of the Yzerman fan boys hoping he'd some day come home, I have faith he'll get it done...I want to see that crazy story book ending where Yzerman brings the cup back to Detroit 

Why is this still a thing? Milan Lucic was just traded and we still have people talking about "untradeable contacts"? There. is. no. such. thing. as. an. untradeable. contract...