2020 Offseason Rebuild Thread

[F.Michael 4,590]

4 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Anyone else storming Area 51?

Not from where I’m at...

 

[MileHighWingsGuy 178]

7 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Anyone else storming Area 51?

Storm an area the size of Connecticut in the desert against a government run facility authorized to use lethal force = thinning of the herd.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 minutes ago, MileHighWingsGuy said:

Storm an area the size of Connecticut in the desert against a government run facility authorized to use lethal force = thinning of the herd.

Hey man they can''t stop us all. Don't you want ur own sex alien?

[LeftWinger 4,951]

I thin the 2020 rebuild should involve making the playoffs in 19-20.  I am tired of watching throw away season's and not even draft as high as we should've.  The lottery system stinks.  If we could've drafted 4th this year we'd have Byrum.  But even if we made the playoffs, and lost inthe 1st round, and drafted around 14-16, the names that went in those spots were Caufield, Krebs, Newhook, so it's not like we would've have crap to choose from.  I happen to feel that we have done better in the 15-20 range anyhow, ie. Larkin, Mantha, Cholowski.  In the past 3 drafts, if we would've made the playoffs and lost in the 1st, here are some names that were available in that Range:

2017:  Foote, Liljegren

2018:  Farabee, Ty Smith

and 2019 listed above.

Not that those guys are any better than what we chose, but my point is, we wouldn't have lost out on anybody really. ( I get that Zadina and Seider remain to be seen what they can do, but you see what I meant by it.)  We've made lateral moves this season, I don't see Yzerman buying out Ericsson or Daley, so it looks like we are basically going to be yet another lottery team that wants to be "competitive" and we'll wind up draft 6-10 again, losing out on a franchise type player in the top 4 and drafting a player that may not be worth the spot again.

I'm just saying that I want to see us back in the playoffs this year. Whether we lose in the 1st, so what, I'd be perfectly happy drafting at 14-20 as I would 6-13.

Here is an early 2020 prospect list top 31:

https://prospectpipeline.ca/2019/06/20/2020-nhl-draft-ranking-top-31-off-season/

[MileHighWingsGuy 178]

11 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Hey man they can''t stop us all. Don't you want ur own sex alien?

Sex alien was not previously mentioned...I’m in.

[AtlantaHotWings 983]

15 minutes ago, MileHighWingsGuy said:

Sex alien was not previously mentioned...I’m in.

"Sex with an alien wasn't even close to sex with a big midwestern girl" --- Captain Kirk on the Today Show 1968

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

On 7/24/2019 at 6:31 AM, LeftWinger said:

I thin the 2020 rebuild should involve making the playoffs in 19-20.  I am tired of watching throw away season's and not even draft as high as we should've.  The lottery system stinks.  If we could've drafted 4th this year we'd have Byrum.  But even if we made the playoffs, and lost inthe 1st round, and drafted around 14-16, the names that went in those spots were Caufield, Krebs, Newhook, so it's not like we would've have crap to choose from.  I happen to feel that we have done better in the 15-20 range anyhow, ie. Larkin, Mantha, Cholowski.  In the past 3 drafts, if we would've made the playoffs and lost in the 1st, here are some names that were available in that Range:

2017:  Foote, Liljegren

2018:  Farabee, Ty Smith

and 2019 listed above.

Not that those guys are any better than what we chose, but my point is, we wouldn't have lost out on anybody really. ( I get that Zadina and Seider remain to be seen what they can do, but you see what I meant by it.)  We've made lateral moves this season, I don't see Yzerman buying out Ericsson or Daley, so it looks like we are basically going to be yet another lottery team that wants to be "competitive" and we'll wind up draft 6-10 again, losing out on a franchise type player in the top 4 and drafting a player that may not be worth the spot again.

I'm just saying that I want to see us back in the playoffs this year. Whether we lose in the 1st, so what, I'd be perfectly happy drafting at 14-20 as I would 6-13.

Here is an early 2020 prospect list top 31:

https://prospectpipeline.ca/2019/06/20/2020-nhl-draft-ranking-top-31-off-season/

Lafreniere makes the rebuild a build.

 

Bertuzzi-Larkin-Mantha

Athanasiou-Lefreniere-Zadina

Svechnikov-Veleno-Rasmussen

 

7 first round picks in top 9.

[kipwinger 8,521]

Lafreniere isn't a center.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

Plus we aren't getting the #1 OA. It just isn't happening.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

4 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Lafreniere isn't a center.

This again?  Seriously?

[Dabura 12,207]

On 7/24/2019 at 9:31 AM, LeftWinger said:

I thin the 2020 rebuild should involve making the playoffs in 19-20.  I am tired of watching throw away season's and not even draft as high as we should've.  The lottery system stinks.  If we could've drafted 4th this year we'd have Byrum.  But even if we made the playoffs, and lost inthe 1st round, and drafted around 14-16, the names that went in those spots were Caufield, Krebs, Newhook, so it's not like we would've have crap to choose from.  I happen to feel that we have done better in the 15-20 range anyhow, ie. Larkin, Mantha, Cholowski.  In the past 3 drafts, if we would've made the playoffs and lost in the 1st, here are some names that were available in that Range:

2017:  Foote, Liljegren

2018:  Farabee, Ty Smith

and 2019 listed above.

Not that those guys are any better than what we chose, but my point is, we wouldn't have lost out on anybody really. ( I get that Zadina and Seider remain to be seen what they can do, but you see what I meant by it.)  We've made lateral moves this season, I don't see Yzerman buying out Ericsson or Daley, so it looks like we are basically going to be yet another lottery team that wants to be "competitive" and we'll wind up draft 6-10 again, losing out on a franchise type player in the top 4 and drafting a player that may not be worth the spot again.

I'm just saying that I want to see us back in the playoffs this year. Whether we lose in the 1st, so what, I'd be perfectly happy drafting at 14-20 as I would 6-13.

Here is an early 2020 prospect list top 31:

https://prospectpipeline.ca/2019/06/20/2020-nhl-draft-ranking-top-31-off-season/

I'm all for making the playoffs. Sucking sucks. The cap ecosystem punishes success. The lottery system doesn't necessarily punish failure, but it's basically a total crapshoot in how it rewards failure. And drafting has always been a crapshoot. So it's at least two levels of crapshoot.

I hate that I'm being conditioned to defend the learned helplessness that Yzerman seems to have embraced. I mean, I get why he's embraced it. It's not surprising to me nor is it illogical to me, given the realities of today's NHL. I don't hate the player, I hate the game.

I hate that the Smart Take is that the Wings need to suck. I hate that Detroit media was all "It's good that Athanasiou is getting a long look at center cuz that's his natural position" and now those same people are all "It's good that Athanasiou is moving back to the wing cuz that's his natural position."

Make the playoffs. Go on a run. Give the Parity Gods and Internet Intelligentsia the double middle finger salute.

Make Larkin the new captain because he hates losing as much as he loves winning and this team needs a pulse.

Do stuff.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

I say we look at the UFA's left, try to get an upgrade via that way or trade. push for the playoffs now. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I say we look at the UFA's left, try to get an upgrade via that way or trade. push for the playoffs now. 

No.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

26 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I say we look at the UFA's left, try to get an upgrade via that way or trade. push for the playoffs now. 

[kipwinger 8,521]

7 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

This again?  Seriously?

Um...I guess?  You had him listed as playing center in your line combos above.  I'm just saying he doesn't play that position.  For what it's worth he also doesn't play defense or goalie in case you envisioned him doing that as well. 

[F.Michael 4,590]

5 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I say we look at the UFA's left, try to get an upgrade via that way or trade. push for the playoffs now. 

I may be going out on a limb here, but I say we should offer Gardiner a 6 year deal with a annual cap hit of...

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

9 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

I may be going out on a limb here, but I say we should offer Gardiner a 6 year deal with a annual cap hit of...

 

No one is talking about Gardiner in the media. It's sorta bizarre honestly. Leafs have no space and maybe only enough to sign Marner when the season starts. But no one is discussing why Gardiner hasn't signed with them or elsewhere.

[F.Michael 4,590]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

No one is talking about Gardiner in the media. It's sorta bizarre honestly. Leafs have no space and maybe only enough to sign Marner when the season starts. But no one is discussing why Gardiner hasn't signed with them or elsewhere.

Apparently he's got an underlying back injury, and from what you can find - his asking price was too rich for the handful of GMs who were at one time interested...His stock has fallen just like ex-Leaf Franson.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Apparently he's got an underlying back injury, and from what you can find - his asking price was too rich for the handful of GMs who were at one time interested...His stock has fallen just like ex-Leaf Franson.

Weird

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Um...I guess?  You had him listed as playing center in your line combos above.  I'm just saying he doesn't play that position.  For what it's worth he also doesn't play defense or goalie in case you envisioned him doing that as well. 

Right.  Did Datsyuk and Zetterberg ever play together on the same line?  Nope.  Impossible.  They are both centers.

[ely s 457]

13 hours ago, Dabura said:

I'm all for making the playoffs. Sucking sucks. The cap ecosystem punishes success. The lottery system doesn't necessarily punish failure, but it's basically a total crapshoot in how it rewards failure. And drafting has always been a crapshoot. So it's at least two levels of crapshoot.

I hate that I'm being conditioned to defend the learned helplessness that Yzerman seems to have embraced. I mean, I get why he's embraced it. It's not surprising to me nor is it illogical to me, given the realities of today's NHL. I don't hate the player, I hate the game.

I hate that the Smart Take is that the Wings need to suck. I hate that Detroit media was all "It's good that Athanasiou is getting a long look at center cuz that's his natural position" and now those same people are all "It's good that Athanasiou is moving back to the wing cuz that's his natural position."

Make the playoffs. Go on a run. Give the Parity Gods and Internet Intelligentsia the double middle finger salute.

Make Larkin the new captain because he hates losing as much as he loves winning and this team needs a pulse.

Do stuff.

sucking sucks today, but not tomorrow. in the moment we have on RD Kaski,Bowey,Hronek,Seider and Lindstrom, on LD it´s Choloski,McIsaac as our better d-prospects + 12 let´s say undefined prospects.

the prospect situation with the fowards looks similiar, which means there will be a surplus of good talent at some point not so far away and that means there will be trades,trades where we really have something to offer without trading core guys away. Trades where we add missing pieces, quality pieces.

As for this season, I think that with the open spots filled with players which earned it through the prospect tournament, training camp and preseason and the players we already have we shouldn´t be that far off and I wouldn´t count it as a tank year with meaningless games, because I believe that no one in the dressing room wants to play meaningless games. They seem ready to me. We might tank up a bit more at deadline day, but realize what we have to offer come draft day 2020.

I expect an upyear of Abby and Helmer, I think they want to prove that it wasn´t a mistake to sign them that long, everyone is under the microscope this year. I expect another step of our top 4 forwards and I think Hronek will put up some points and play real solid on the back end.

If we are close to the playoffs we have the assets to reload at deadline day, if not we have "trade material" to gain a few extra picks ( tbh our contract situation screams "extra picks, extra picks")

talking of picks, I totally agree with you that there is no sense in losing to end up higher in the draft, because all you learn from it is loosing...

so why should we go for the big splash now, when all the signs are on 2020?

Believe!

 

edit: https://www.nhl.com/news/red-wings-larkin-taking-leadership-role/c-308342166?tid=277548856

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by ely s

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Right.  Did Datsyuk and Zetterberg ever play together on the same line?  Nope.  Impossible.  They are both centers.

Transitioning from center to wing is much easier to do than transitioning from wing to center. In saying that, if an elite player like Lafreniere wanted to / was asked to play center, I'm sure he could do it.

Honestly, I find it kind of odd that a player as talented as this kid, hasn't been playing center. He checks all the boxes, good size, great speed and acceleration, elite hands, good shot, great passing, high compete level, etc. It's rare to see a player with that elite tool kit playing the wing. He may not be at the level of Crosby or McDavid (he may be), but I think he could be in the same conversation as Stamkos, Tavares,  MacKinnon, Matthews, etc. The only similar forward that was this highly touted in recent years that never played center is Hall, and I think he's a step above Hall.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Transitioning from center to wing is much easier to do than transitioning from wing to center. In saying that, if an elite player like Lafreniere wanted to / was asked to play center, I'm sure he could do it.

Honestly, I find it kind of odd that a player as talented as this kid, hasn't been playing center. He checks all the boxes, good size, great speed and acceleration, elite hands, good shot, great passing, high compete level, etc. It's rare to see a player with that elite tool kit playing the wing. He may not be at the level of Crosby or McDavid (he may be), but I think he could be in the same conversation as Stamkos, Tavares,  MacKinnon, Matthews, etc. The only similar forward that was this highly touted in recent years that never played center is Hall, and I think he's a step above Hall.

Right now, they all play F.  One of the 3 F's drops back to help the D more than the other 2.  We no longer have centers that stick to the center of the ice all the time and wingers that stay on their side of the center all the time.  Those days are long gone.

[kipwinger 8,521]

9 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Right.  Did Datsyuk and Zetterberg ever play together on the same line?  Nope.  Impossible.  They are both centers.

They were centers playing the wing.  Not wingers playing center, as you're advocating.  Natural wingers moving to center is extremely rare.  Natural centers moving to wing is extremely common.  Look, if you want Lafreniere cool, but don't hold your breath for him to play center is all I'm saying.  And if you're that desperate for a center then you should probably hope the Wings draft someone else. 

44 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Right now, they all play F.  One of the 3 F's drops back to help the D more than the other 2.  We no longer have centers that stick to the center of the ice all the time and wingers that stay on their side of the center all the time.  Those days are long gone.

And defensemen join the rush more than they used to.  So what? They're still f*cking defensemen.  There's a lot more to playing center than "sticking to the center of the ice" BTW.  You don't see Hall or Kane or Tarasenko or Ovechkin doing it for a reason. 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

50 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

They were centers playing the wing.  Not wingers playing center, as you're advocating.  Natural wingers moving to center is extremely rare.  Natural centers moving to wing is extremely common.  Look, if you want Lafreniere cool, but don't hold your breath for him to play center is all I'm saying.  And if you're that desperate for a center then you should probably hope the Wings draft someone else. 

And defensemen join the rush more than they used to.  So what? They're still f*cking defensemen.  There's a lot more to playing center than "sticking to the center of the ice" BTW.  You don't see Hall or Kane or Tarasenko or Ovechkin doing it for a reason. 

 You dont need to swear.  Im just having a civil discussion with you.

 

Lafreniere-Athanasiou-Zadina

 

That better?