2019-20 Prospects Thread

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

16 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Nope.  Zadina gonna be good.  You lose, dude.

It's bait, and not even good bait at this point. Don't take it. 

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 hours ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

 

Obvious +10 pts Veleno. Love Veleno.

But also Dach looks really good. Any of the fans freaking about reaching for him in Chicago I think should feel dumb. Bowman did the smart move there.

[Dabura 12,207]

Veleno HYPE!

https://dobberprospects.com/player/joe-veleno/

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July 2019 – Veleno absolutely owned the QMJHL this past season, scoring 42 goals and adding 62 assists for a total of 104 points in only 59 games and another 17 points in 16 playoff games. Veleno has developed into an excellent two-way center who plays a smart and fast game. He can hurt you equally with his shot or as the set-up man. As he’s got nothing left to prove in junior hockey, Veleno will compete for a roster spot with the Red Wings in the fall. It’s likely however, with the signing of Valtteri Filpulla, that Detroit’s future number two center plays some games in the AHL before transitioning full time to the NHL. Mark Hillier

https://dobberprospects.com/prospect-ramblings-roster-bubble-prospects/

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Joe Veleno, C, Detroit Red Wings

The Detroit Red Wings were thanking their lucky stars when Joe Veleno fell in the 2018 NHL draft, selecting the dangerous forward 30th overall. Veleno’s game has truly rounded out since his draft selection, developing a sound defensive game and continuing to grow offensively. Whether electing to be the play-maker or the trigger man, Veleno can take on either role on his line and provide a well-balanced attack. He trusts that his teammates can convert on their chances and doesn’t shy away from distributing the puck despite having a lethal shot of his own. He plays a smart game and doesn’t cheat in his zone in favor of offence, rather he transitions to offence with ease once the task of retrieving the puck is completed.

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The former Drummondville Voltigeur center is taking the next step in 2019. Whether it be to the AHL or NHL, it is up to Joe Veleno to prove that he belongs at the top level in training camp. That will not be an easy task for a team who has no issue with their prospects being over-seasoned before being called up to the big leagues. While he may not start the year with the NHL club, he will certainly be allowed to earn a call-up. With a strong camp and good preseason, he could create a tough decision for general manager Steve Yzerman and his crew. He would have to supplant one of the top-nine forwards to earn a spot, possibly sticking on the wing in a third-line capacity, being mentored by a veteran center such as Valtteri Filppula or Frans Nielsen.  

Likelihood to make the roster: 50%

Points Projection: 8 – 18 – 26

https://www.nhl.com/redwings/news/red-wings-prospect-veleno-impresses-in-first-wjss-game/c-308399912

https://www.tsn.ca/dach-veleno-and-lafreniere-dazzle-in-top-line-tour-de-force-for-canada-1.1344525

[LeftWinger 4,953]

Veleno just may end up better than Zadina...

question is, what do we do if Veleno outplays the other C's this fall and deserves to make the team?

[Dabura 12,207]

On 7/27/2019 at 2:21 AM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Agreed with the general assessment of Zadina. His work in the cycle and defensive positioning are exactly what needs refining. Where I might disagree is that he will or should make the team out of camp. But I'd be very happy to be wrong about that.

Also agreed with Hronek. Kid is really smart, and I think his steady calmness with the puck and determination to make the correct play go overlooked a bit. He makes a lot of minor things look easy.

I haven't watched much Veleno to be honest. But it does seem like he's worked on his goal scoring ability based on his stats like the article says.

I will continue to preach the good word of McIsaac. This kid is very good. Deserving of 1st round pick attention good IMO. Smart, fast, strong, skilled. It's hard for me to find faults. He's darkhorse one of our best prospects I think.

Most of the other prospects I haven't watched enough of to commen,t or I'd just be repeating what was already said.

Solid article. Ben Kerr seems to know his stuff.

Yeah, Last Word On Hockey has become one of my go-to resources for draft/prospect stuff.

Personally, I'm cautiously bullish on our top prospects; I can't convince myself that we have all the pieces we need, but I'd like to think we're only a Lafreniere away from being relevant again. I talk about this a lot but I really do feel that the Wings have done a good job of building up some good organizational depth and that the only real problem now is the lack of a powerhouse player who can tie everything together and make things click. The rising tide that lifts all boats. (Because, like I always say, your team is only as deep as your top talent allows it to be.)

Maybe Veleno is the next Ryan O'Reilly, maybe he isn't. IMO, the real question is "What do you get if you toss a gamechanging player into the mix with our top young players (e.g. Veleno)?" I think two things happen: 1) Veleno-->O'Reilly2.0 becomes more doable (rising tide, boats), and 2) the need for Veleno-->O'Reilly2.0 lessens (rising tide, boats).

So that's how I'm looking at our prospect situation. The Wings are constructing a big fuse and looking for a match. Matches are extremely difficult to come by in this metaphor, but we only need one. In theory.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Veleno just may end up better than Zadina...

question is, what do we do if Veleno outplays the other C's this fall and deserves to make the team?

Both McIsaac and Veleno may very well end up better than Zadina IMHO.

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

Yeah, Last Word On Hockey has become one of my go-to resources for draft/prospect stuff.

Personally, I'm cautiously bullish on our top prospects; I can't convince myself that we have all the pieces we need, but I'd like to think we're only a Lafreniere away from being relevant again. I talk about this a lot but I really do feel that the Wings have done a good job of building up some good organizational depth and that the only real problem now is the lack of a powerhouse player who can tie everything together and make things click. The rising tide that lifts all boats. (Because, like I always say, your team is only as deep as your top talent allows it to be.)

Maybe Veleno is the next Ryan O'Reilly, maybe he isn't. IMO, the real question is "What do you get if you toss a gamechanging player into the mix with our top young players (e.g. Veleno)?" I think two things happen: 1) Veleno-->O'Reilly2.0 becomes more doable (rising tide, boats), and 2) the need for Veleno-->O'Reilly2.0 lessens (rising tide, boats).

So that's how I'm looking at our prospect situation. The Wings are constructing a big fuse and looking for a match. Matches are extremely difficult to come by in this metaphor, but we only need one. In theory.

Personally I think our forward depth chart is awesome. I'm much less keen on adding forward prospects, including centers, than many seem to be.

Defense I still feel less safe. Outside of Hronek, Cholowski, McIsaac, and Seider it feels like a total crap shoot.

Goalies I'm a little concerned about. If Larsson isn't our guy we could be in deep water. The rest of our goalie prospects are a total question mark.

Personally I'd rather have the complete opposite and build from the net out like Nashville did.

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Both McIsaac and Veleno may very well end up better than Zadina IMHO.

I still think Zadina will be a top line winger, so if McIsaac is better than that, that's great news.

7 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Personally I think our forward depth chart is awesome. I'm much less keen on adding forward prospects, including centers, than many seem to be.

I agree. However, if we're drafting in the top 3-5 next year, we're very likely to take another forward (Lafreniere, Byfield, Raymond, Holtz, Perfetti, etc.), and I think we need another top 3-5 pick, regardless of position. The last thing this team needs is another left-handed winger, but I'm sure we'd all be thrilled to get Lafreniere.

7 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Defense I still feel less safe. Outside of Hronek, Cholowski, McIsaac, and Seider it feels like a total crap shoot.

That is a solid four to build around, and if they can all reach or at least come close to their ceilings, that should be a very solid top 4. I'm not as sold on McIsaac as you, but I think the other three are locks to be top 4 defensemen. After you fill your top 4, it's gravy. We also have DeKeyser and Bowey, and I'm sure a couple of Lindstrom, Johansson, Kaski, Tuomisto, Kotkansalo, Setkov, Regula, Barton, etc. will become players of some capacity. There's also the option to dip into free agency.

8 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Goalies I'm a little concerned about. If Larsson isn't our guy we could be in deep water. The rest of our goalie prospects are a total question mark.

Goaltending is a crapshoot, but I'm comfortable in saying that at least one of our goalie prospects should pan out. Larsson is the best goalie prospect we've had since Mrazek. We all know how that panned out, but from what I've seen Larsson is much more level headed and composed than Mrazek ever was. Eliasson, Brattstrom, Petruzzelli and Gylander are all decent to good prospects as well.

8 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Personally I'd rather have the complete opposite and build from the net out like Nashville did.

This seems to be a popular opinion by a lot of hockey fans, and seems to be a bit of an old school mentality. "DeFeNsE WiNs ChAmPiOnShIpS"... But me personally, I'd rather have a lethal offense, good defense and a capable goaltender than an elite goalie, great shutdown defense and capable forwards...

[LeftWinger 4,953]

10 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Personally I think our forward depth chart is awesome. I'm much less keen on adding forward prospects, including centers, than many seem to be.

Defense I still feel less safe. Outside of Hronek, Cholowski, McIsaac, and Seider it feels like a total crap shoot.

which is why, IMO, that Holland should've went with D instead of Zadina.  I get the whole "Zadina was projected #3" stuff, I get it, but you don't get a shot at a Quinn Hughes/Evan Bouchard at every draft.  The draft usually has more quality forwards available in the teens and 20's than D, I feel our team would've been in a better situation by drafting, let's say, Hughes, Veleno, McIsaac instead of Zadina.  He has a lot of nets to fill to make up for us not taking D.  With my history, I feel that I am going to scrutinize him for his entire career if he doesn't.  I hope not, , but you all know how bad I was with Hossa v. Franzen! To me, my unfair high expectations is going to be 35+ goals a year and 10+ per playoff year(s) in order to make up for not drafting D.  But again, that is just going by my past, I hope that I am not that critical anymore and when/if he does well, I just enjoy the 6 out of 9 Stanley Cups we'll be celebrating in the coming years!   (wouldn't that be nice!)

Bottom line is, life is full of "what-ifs" we have to move forward no matter what.  What if we were able to draft Bure when we tried to, what if Gretzky chose Detroit instead of LA, what if the limo hadn't crashed, what if  Marty Lapointe took less money to stay here, what if The Isles took Heatley instead of DePietro, what if they didn't take LaFontaine and Devellano did..what if the moon were made of cheese (would you eat it?) what if life was fair to everyone....you get it.  In the history of drafts, there have been more busts than booms.  

Here's to hoping that Zadina IS filling nets in the NHL SOON and that the four D you mentioned above ARE legit NHL starters and a couple of stars too!  We only need ONE "Elite" D along with 2 or 3 2nd tier stars, we've proven that already.  Establish who is elite, build him a nice cast of supporting talented line-mates and we're golden.

 

[LeftWinger 4,953]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

This seems to be a popular opinion by a lot of hockey fans, and seems to be a bit of an old school mentality. "DeFeNsE WiNs ChAmPiOnShIpS"... But me personally, I'd rather have a lethal offense, good defense and a capable goaltender than an elite goalie, great shutdown defense and capable forwards...

We've proven that already too.  We had LETHAL offensive talent, an Elite D-Man supported by a VERY solid to star cast, backed up by a very good to almost great goalie in Chris Osgood.  Sure, we won a Cup with Vernon and All-World Hasek.  We aren't getting an everyday shot at anther Hasek in the near future (if ever again,I feel he was the best in the world) and of course Vernie was a hot goalie at the right time.  Ozzie developed, and became a goalie who at times could give up the bad goal (but so could Hasek and Roy) and was good enough to win you a game when your team just wasn't on point that night.  He made some gaffs, he made some elite saves.  But (even though most of us wold love to see him in the HOF and rafters) we can all agree (even though his stats say otherwise) he was never in the same conversation as the likes of Roy, Brodeur, Hasek.  They were considered by 100% of the NHL to be Elite.  Again, no pun intended, but we did dominate when we got Hasek, but if you look at our best year "statistically" we had Vernon and Osgood in net, we just had an unstoppable O and Lidstrom/Coffey, two dominating Russians and a solid backup cast on D.

It'd be nice to have that "Elite" goalie, but I agree, I feel that having a nice solid G with most of your talent in front of him wins Cups. How many Cups does Montreal have with Price? How many Cups did Hasek have until he was traded here?

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

Berggren ANTI-HYPE!!!! 

 

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

3 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Berggren ANTI-HYPE!!!! 

 

I was watching this, definitely cringed a little. That's quite the turnover.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

1 minute ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

I was watching this, definitely cringed a little. That's quite the turnover.

I'll give him a pass for that. Barely played since last November. Kid's rustier than a 100 year old nail.

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

I was watching this, definitely cringed a little. That's quite the turnover.

Same. What made it worse is I was watching it with my Leafs fan buddy and it was a terrible giveaway by Berggren (DET) on the stick of Robertson (TOR) that went in and scored on Eliasson (DET)...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Same. What made it worse is I was watching it with my Leafs fan buddy and it was a terrible giveaway by Berggren (DET) on the stick of Robertson (TOR) that went in and scored on Eliasson (DET)...

I bet you friend was happy. Leafs fans love meaningless hockey games. 

[Dabura 12,207]

(USA would go on to win 5-3.)

[Akakabuto 1,749]

bertuzzi-larkin-mantha

lafraniere/byfield/holtz/raymond-veleno-zadina

could work

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

7 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

bertuzzi-larkin-mantha

lafraniere/byfield/holtz/raymond-veleno-zadina

could work

AA scores 40 this year.  Still thr whipping boy.

[Akakabuto 1,749]

7 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

AA scores 40 this year.  Still thr whipping boy.

Switch Bert for AA if you like. I just kept the first line together just because of their strong finish last season. 

When I think about it, you should really spread your talent over three lines anyway. Seems to be the way the league is going with LV and TB leading the way. 

[ely s 457]

I read an interview with Moritz Seider, where he said that he will come over to Detroit on the 12th of August and that he plans to stay. There are no articles saying that in NA so far, but he said so at home. He would only go back if the Redwings want him to.

[krsmith17 7,191]

10 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

AA scores 40 this year.  Still thr whipping boy.

Remember when Ovechkin scored 70 last year?...

Seriously though, not having Athanasiou in your top six, doesn't necessarily make him a "whipping boy". If he's our 3rd line center in a couple years, that means we have a very strong top six. That's a good thing. I love AA, but in an ideal world (assuming Veleno is as good as I expect him to be), I'd love to see Larkin - Veleno - Athanasiou - Glendening / Turgeon as our four centers next season. In saying that, I'm not opposed to having Athanasiou on the wing in the top six either, if we have another player that can fill the 3rd line center role.

3 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

Switch Bert for AA if you like. I just kept the first line together just because of their strong finish last season. 

When I think about it, you should really spread your talent over three lines anyway. Seems to be the way the league is going with LV and TB leading the way. 

Also this.

1 hour ago, ely s said:

I read an interview with Moritz Seider, where he said that he will come over to Detroit on the 12th of August and that he plans to stay. There are no articles saying that in NA so far, but he said so at home. He would only go back if the Redwings want him to.

By Detroit, I assume he means Michigan? As much as I'd like to see Seider kill it in training camp / pre-season and force his way onto the roster, there's no need to rush it. Ideally he plays a full season in Grand Rapids this season, and makes it full time in Detroit next season.

[ely s 457]

21 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

...

By Detroit, I assume he means Michigan? As much as I'd like to see Seider kill it in training camp / pre-season and force his way onto the roster, there's no need to rush it. Ideally he plays a full season in Grand Rapids this season, and makes it full time in Detroit next season.

He is coming over to prepare for TC. I don´t know where he is going to live and train before TC.

"Ich will mich nicht irgendwann fragen lassen müssen, warum ich es jetzt nicht unbedingt versucht habe", sagte Seider am Montag in Mannheim.

"I don´t want to be asked some day, why haven´t I tried hard right away" Seider said on Monday

He is basically just saying that he wants to stay in NA (Wings or GR) instead of going back to Germany for another year after TC

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

7 hours ago, ely s said:

I read an interview with Moritz Seider, where he said that he will come over to Detroit on the 12th of August and that he plans to stay. There are no articles saying that in NA so far, but he said so at home. He would only go back if the Redwings want him to.

 

4 hours ago, ely s said:

"Ich will mich nicht irgendwann fragen lassen müssen, warum ich es jetzt nicht unbedingt versucht habe", sagte Seider am Montag in Mannheim.

"I don´t want to be asked some day, why haven´t I tried hard right away" Seider said on Monday

He is basically just saying that he wants to stay in NA (Wings or GR) instead of going back to Germany for another year after TC

Dingus: "The Red Wings have the maginot line, it will be 2 or 3 years before Seider can make the team"
Seider: "My panzers will be rolling down Woodward by sundown"

 

[ely s 457]

I really believe that Seider is playing at least a few games this year in Detroit, we will see.

Here is some info on our 2019 draft picks, a lot to learn and love about them.

 

[Dabura 12,207]

https://dobberhockey.com/hockey-rambling/ramblings-josi-hronek-hlinka-and-the-finnish-wave-august-7/

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Filip Hronek.

The 21-year-old is has been quickly rising the pipeline with his great skating and ability to generate offense all over the rink. Selected in the second round in 2016, the Czech-product made the transition to the American League full-time in 2017-18. There he recorded a very impressive 11 goals and 39 points in 67 games. He put roughly 1.8 shots on goal per night.

He followed that up with 31 games mixed through the season where he scored seven goals and 24 points for the Griffins. The other 46 contests of his 2018-19 season were spent in Detroit where he clicked at 41-point-pace. By the final quarter, he was skating more than 22 minutes a night – two of those coming on the power play. 

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We know the story, the ghost of Mike Green remains on the right side of the Detroit blue line. While he’s there and he’s healthy (which is few and far between) coach, Jeff Blashill will likely give him opportunities on the top power-play unit. However, the efficiency that Hronek has displayed, coupled with his youthful potential should keep him seeing prime ice and pushing for that top job on a full-time basis. 

He's a very real threat to break 40 points next season and his upside is higher. It won't be long before we see a top unit of Larkin, Mantha, Zadina, and Hronek. 

Watch out for Moritz Seider though. He's a righty and he's damn good as well.