2019-20 Prospects Thread

[ely s 457]

20 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

This.  I think people forget how stoked they were on Smith for the first 2-3 years and only remember the disappointment in the last 3 years.  We've all become a bit jaded and wont back a guy until he is NHL bonafied.  I feel good about backing Zadina.  He has a huge skillset and passion for what he does.  He just needs time.  Kid is just 19-20 this season.  I wouldnt at all be surprised to see him alongside Larkin in a few weeks.  Mantha is on the block for a reason.

is he? I haven´t read anything like this, as far as I know is SY giving everyone a chance to proof he deserves to be a Red Wing

[mackel 679]

Does anyone else subscribe to the Athletic?  Dom Lucźzzzzzzzyn (SP) has a great article on the wings.  Be forewarned its brutally honest... you may cry a little.

BTW love the Athletic well worth the 30CAD for the year.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

8 minutes ago, mackel said:

Does anyone else subscribe to the Athletic?  Dom Lucźzzzzzzzyn (SP) has a great article on the wings.  Be forewarned its brutally honest... you may cry a little.

BTW love the Athletic well worth the 30CAD for the year.

Great article for sure. 

IMO, the only thing that's tear-inducing is finishing bottom three and getting hosed in the lotto again and picking in the 4-6 range. 

Basically, if someone can guarantee me a top 3 pick next June, I'll take any kind of Wings-related pain that comes my way. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by The 91 of Ryans

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

8 hours ago, ely s said:

it is the first time since a long time and I have the strange feeling a lot of people here are a bit hard on him. Just because he was a projected top 3 pick, doesn´t mean that he is coming in and tearing the league apart, it doesn´t mean he knows everything and does everything right. Of course in our situation it would have been nice to get this type of player and a lot of us were hoping he would be straight away, but how many top 10 picks are on an opening night roster right after the draft? Give him a bit more time to learn the nhl/pro game and I´m sure we will all get our reward.

I willingly admit I'm being hard on him. He and Seider will both by under much bigger microscopes than other players. That's the nature of being top6 of your draft class. Unlike the vast majority of prospects I 100% expect both these players to be Red Wings soon, and I 100% expect them to become game-changing players. Anything short of that will be a disappointment IMHO.

5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Yes, that's exactly what I would say. You are people too and you could just as easily, or in my opinion, more likely be wrong. Yes, for the most part, people within the organization are going to talk up their prospects, but they're not going to flat out lie about aspects of their game. If Draper says his defensive ability is strong for a scoring winger, I'd believe that over some random guy on the internet that says he sucks defensively, because reasons. Regner is an asshat, but like it or not, he does have an in with the Red Wings higher ups, and the fact that he is regurgitating what he hears from them, must be somewhat telling. We're only hearing these things from Detroit media, because fact is, they're the only ones that are watching these kids (Red Wings prospects) on a nightly basis. Who else do you want to hear an in depth analysis on him from?

Anyway, I don't necessarily disagree with your take on Zadina's game. At least you're being reasonable with your negative feedback. mackel is the one that is over the top with the unfounded negativity. I don't entirely disagree with your breakdown on Zadina, but I would say that one of his strengths (pro) is reading the play. It's certainly not a weakness (con). I would also chalk the other things up to him being young. He's never had to play much defense early in his career, because he relied so heavily on his offensive game. It's only been the last few years that he's been working on the defensive side of the game, and from what I've seen and heard, he's doing a pretty damn good job adapting. I completely agree with the "I'll believe it when I see it" with prospects approach, but for now (that's all we have to base anything on), he's trending in the right direction *in my opinion*...

I really don't think Regner called Draper a week ago to ask "How's Zadina's defensive game looking? Complete? Ok.". This is a lazy summer article with one sentence about his D game that reads exactly like his draft day profile. Hardly evidence of anything.

Regner will also say things like "Jon Ericsson brings a physical presence to Detroit's back end" does he really though Art? I trust many people's here take on players more than lazy journalism like that.

I honestly would have completely glossed over Regner's "complete game" comment had you not pointed at it.

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

This.  I think people forget how stoked they were on Smith for the first 2-3 years and only remember the disappointment in the last 3 years.  We've all become a bit jaded and wont back a guy until he is NHL bonafied.  I feel good about backing Zadina.  He has a huge skillset and passion for what he does.  He just needs time.  Kid is just 19-20 this season.  I wouldnt at all be surprised to see him alongside Larkin in a few weeks.  Mantha is on the block for a reason.

Still don't understand why the Rags bought out Shatty and not Smitty

19 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Great article for sure. 

IMO, the only thing that's tear-inducing is finishing bottom three and getting hosed in the lotto again and picking in the 4-6 range. 

Basically, if someone can guarantee me a top 3 pick next June, I'll take any kind of Wings-related pain that comes my way. 

I cheer when we score and when we get scored on. It's like we can't lose.

[krsmith17 7,191]

10 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I really don't think Regner called Draper a week ago to ask "How's Zadina's defensive game looking? Complete? Ok.". This is a lazy summer article with one sentence about his D game that reads exactly like his draft day profile. Hardly evidence of anything.

Regner will also say things like "Jon Ericsson brings a physical presence to Detroit's back end" does he really though Art? I trust many people's here take on players more than lazy journalism like that.

I honestly would have completely glossed over Regner's "complete game" comment had you not pointed at it.

You're dwelling too much on this one article. It's not about this one article. It's about the countless articles and snippets commenting on Zadina's "two-way game" or "defensive awareness"... I just posted the article because the heading was "Zadina is a solid two-way player who prides himself on playing a complete game"... If I'm being honest, I skimmed the article and hadn't even realized who wrote it until afterwards. I just find it funny that Red Wings media keep saying the same thing over and over again, and some refuse to believe it's even a little bit true... Are they making it up? Are they being fed bad information? Are the Red Wings front office completely clueless when it comes to evaluating players? Which is it?

[ely s 457]

fake news !

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

12 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You're dwelling too much on this one article. It's not about this one article. It's about the countless articles and snippets commenting on Zadina's "two-way game" or "defensive awareness"... I just posted the article because the heading was "Zadina is a solid two-way player who prides himself on playing a complete game"... If I'm being honest, I skimmed the article and hadn't even realized who wrote it until afterwards. I just find it funny that Red Wings media keep saying the same thing over and over again, and some refuse to believe it's even a little bit true... Are they making it up? Are they being fed bad information? Are the Red Wings front office completely clueless when it comes to evaluating players? Which is it?

Laziness

It's only been one season since he was drafted. Everyone just repeats the same description of players until they flesh out there NHL career. Hell, you repeatedly cited that Brendan Smith was an offensive Dman up until 2016, despite him only scoring 67 pts over the combined 4 seasons prior.

I suspect we're going to hear "prides himself on playing a complete game" until Zadina has like 3 NHL seasons under his belt. By that time he won't have the label of prospect protecting him and he will either be playing a complete game, or not, and if not the narrative will change.

This is all very much tied up in the concept of potential. What does Regner and the media mean by "plays a complete game"? Do they mean he already plays a complete game? I suspect no, as he would be in the NHL already if he did. Or do they mean he has the potential to one day "play a complete game"? I suspect this is the case.

I agree that he has the potential to one day learn to play a complete defensive game. But as of today he isn't showing that IMO. If I was a scout I would have scored Zadina's last year in the AHL like this:

Offense: 6/10
Defense: 2/10

6/10 is acceptable to me for his first year. 2/10 is not.

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Laziness

It's only been one season since he was drafted. Everyone just repeats the same description of players until they flesh out there NHL career. Hell, you repeatedly cited that Brendan Smith was an offensive Dman up until 2016, despite him only scoring 67 pts over the combined 4 seasons prior.

I suspect we're going to hear "prides himself on playing a complete game" until Zadina has like 3 NHL seasons under his belt. By that time he won't have the label of prospect protecting him and he will either be playing a complete game, or not, and if not the narrative will change.

This is all very much tied up in the concept of potential. What does Regner and the media mean by "plays a complete game"? Do they mean he already plays a complete game? I suspect no, as he would be in the NHL already if he did. Or do they mean he has the potential to one day "play a complete game"? I suspect this is the case.

I agree that he has the potential to one day learn to play a complete defensive game. But as of today he isn't showing that IMO. If I was a scout I would have scored Zadina's last year in the AHL like this:

Offense: 6/10
Defense: 2/10

6/10 is acceptable to me for his first year. 2/10 is not.

Fair enough. 2/10 is lower than I'd grade his defense, but I get your point.

[mackel 679]

6 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

You're dwelling too much on this one article. It's not about this one article. It's about the countless articles and snippets commenting on Zadina's "two-way game" or "defensive awareness"... I just posted the article because the heading was "Zadina is a solid two-way player who prides himself on playing a complete game"... If I'm being honest, I skimmed the article and hadn't even realized who wrote it until afterwards. I just find it funny that Red Wings media keep saying the same thing over and over again, and some refuse to believe it's even a little bit true... Are they making it up? Are they being fed bad information? Are the Red Wings front office completely clueless when it comes to evaluating players? Which is it?

Watch him play... make up you own mind.  Because those sources are programmed positive... it's called pandering. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

8 hours ago, ely s said:

fake news !

I actually think the Ilitch's organization is a master group at fake news so to speak, or more precisely controlling the media narrative.

This is a very closed door franchise. Rarely do scandals ever make it outside the organization. Rarely ever do trade rumors surface early out of Detroit. Players like Avery get kicked to the curb quick. Whose the most outspoken or controversial character to hang on for a while in this organization? Probert? McCarty?

Detroit feeds crumbs (not alot and not tasty) to the pigeons (the small group of brown nosing journalists they've trained). There's an occasional hot shot player like Fedorov, or an occasional odd ball bruiser like McCarty, and that's as much as you get as a fan of this team.

The crumbs consist of nice s*** they want you to absorb.

But I respect them running a tight ship. It's classy and smart.

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 hours ago, mackel said:

Watch him play... make up you own mind.  Because those sources are programmed positive... it's called pandering. 

Good idea. I've actually never seen him play... Have you?

[mackel 679]

13 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Good idea. I've actually never seen him play... Have you?

More than enough to have face palmed when we were "lucky" to have him drop to us and Kenny got swindled, as he so often did the last few years of his tenure.  I've not seen much change since.

[Dabura 12,207]

On 8/29/2019 at 11:45 AM, mackel said:

Does anyone else subscribe to the Athletic?

No. They're all leftist flannel beards.

[mackel 679]

4 hours ago, Dabura said:

No. They're all leftist flannel beards.

The Athletic is awesome.  Your political commentary is unnecessary. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

 

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

 

Looks like the LCA on gameday.

[Dabura 12,207]

On 8/30/2019 at 5:16 PM, mackel said:

The Athletic is awesome.  Your political commentary is unnecessary. 

Found the hipster.

[mackel 679]

6 hours ago, Dabura said:

Found the hipster.

Lol not quite.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Prospects Tournament starts tomorrow night at 7:00pm EST vs. Chicago!

 

Myself and @ely s have been chatting in the "Prospects" thread, but thought I'd add it here as well...

[krsmith17 7,191]

Good read on Soderblom.

https://www.eprinkside.com/2019/9/6/post-draft-prospect-profiles-elmer-soderblom-no-159-to-the-detroit-red-wings

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Good read on Soderblom.

https://www.eprinkside.com/2019/9/6/post-draft-prospect-profiles-elmer-soderblom-no-159-to-the-detroit-red-wings

Sounds like Ericsson

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Sounds like Ericsson

What would Ericsson's career have been if he played forward instead of transitioning to defense?...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

What would Ericsson's career have been if he played forward instead of transitioning to defense?...

Martin Hanzal

[Buppy 1,720]

6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

What would Ericsson's career have been if he played forward instead of transitioning to defense?...

Wouldn't have had one.

 

[ely s 457]

one and a half hours till the first taste of hockey