Dabura 12,206 Report post Posted September 7, 2019 (edited) It's one of the main reasons why I like Dobber Prospects so much. I think they and some others are doing solid work, which includes, among other things, giving people a steady stream of info re: young under-the-radar players who are playing outside of North America. https://dobberprospects.com/prospect-deep-dive-moritz-seider/ Edited September 7, 2019 by Dabura 1 ely s reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TLGTrico 616 Report post Posted September 7, 2019 So is there any reason why Svech isn't in the prospect tournament? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted September 8, 2019 3 hours ago, Dabura said: I'm not talking about actual NHL amateur scouts. I'm talking about fans, the blogosphere, the Pronmans. I was balls-deep in everyone's takes on players and I felt the Seider takes were generally a bit lacking. I feel this is sort of the norm for NA folks' takes on non-marquee draft-eligibles playing in European leagues and I feel that The Age of Information is probably going to see the average info-seeking hockey fan own increasingly informed, nuanced takes on draft-eligibles who maybe wouldn't have gotten much coverage and love in years past. 3 hours ago, Dabura said: It's one of the main reasons why I like Dobber Prospects so much. I think they and some others are doing solid work, which includes, among other things, giving people a steady stream of info re: young under-the-radar players who are playing outside of North America. https://dobberprospects.com/prospect-deep-dive-moritz-seider/ The average fan is never going to look at anything more than stat lines and other people's rankings. And obviously there are a lot more people covering NA teams and prospects, and it's much easier to find games to watch, so obviously there's going to be more complete information about more top NA prospects, particularly compared to the lower level hockey countries in Europe. The fact that Seider had as much buzz as he did coming from Germany and putting up no stats kind of works against your point. You praise the depth of the Dobber Prospects analysis, but they ranked Seider in the same range as pretty much everyone else...still behind all the "consensus" top guys. Pronman had him down in the 20s, but he also had Broberg at #9, so clearly his scoring in Europe had nothing to do with it. Just a fairly small difference in opinion, same as what happens outside the top few picks every year. Wings fans, or at least Yzerman fans, seem to have this desperation to prove to themselves that Seider was some genius pick; that Yzerman didn't reach; that the rest of the hockey world is just stupid. It's not only a grossly inaccurate depiction of what other people actually thought about Seider (which is that he's a really good player with high-end potential, but that there were maybe another 10 kids, give or take a few, who were more likely to turn out better), but it's also creating so much ridiculous hype around him that half the fan base is going to hate him if he turns out to be a Hampus Lindholm-level player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ely s 457 Report post Posted September 8, 2019 4 hours ago, Buppy said: The average fan is never going to look at anything more than stat lines and other people's rankings. And obviously there are a lot more people covering NA teams and prospects, and it's much easier to find games to watch, so obviously there's going to be more complete information about more top NA prospects, particularly compared to the lower level hockey countries in Europe. The fact that Seider had as much buzz as he did coming from Germany and putting up no stats kind of works against your point. You praise the depth of the Dobber Prospects analysis, but they ranked Seider in the same range as pretty much everyone else...still behind all the "consensus" top guys. Pronman had him down in the 20s, but he also had Broberg at #9, so clearly his scoring in Europe had nothing to do with it. Just a fairly small difference in opinion, same as what happens outside the top few picks every year. Wings fans, or at least Yzerman fans, seem to have this desperation to prove to themselves that Seider was some genius pick; that Yzerman didn't reach; that the rest of the hockey world is just stupid. It's not only a grossly inaccurate depiction of what other people actually thought about Seider (which is that he's a really good player with high-end potential, but that there were maybe another 10 kids, give or take a few, who were more likely to turn out better), but it's also creating so much ridiculous hype around him that half the fan base is going to hate him if he turns out to be a Hampus Lindholm-level player. The NHL scouts just started really late to watch him, he rose in the rankings in the second half of the season and suddenly more scouts took notice. Yzerman was already real high on him while he was still in Tampa, he went to europe a couple of times to see him play. The NHL teams concentrate their scouting on NA, because you have the talent piled up in a few teams, whereas in europe you have around 30 countries with s***loads of leagues to watch. Without his injury he would have been a top ten pick on every piece of paper, with it he was ranged between 10-20. Tbh I don´t mind the fact that he flew a bit under the radar, because that´s the reason we got him and as I stated earlier, I might be a bit biased but I think we took the right guy. Long time ago that we had a defensman that looked that good with the winged wheel on his chest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,206 Report post Posted September 8, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, Buppy said: Wings fans, or at least Yzerman fans, seem to have this desperation to prove to themselves that Seider was some genius pick "Hi, I'm Buppy. I'm going to accuse you of talking out of your ass and I'm going to do so while talking out of my ass." I don't have a chip on my shoulder about Seider. I don't think hE wAsN't RaNkEd hIgH eNoUgH. Seider got a lot of love from people and I pointed that out at the time. I'm not saying he didn't get love. I'm saying I read lots of Seider takes and I thought they were, on average, lacking. I'm not saying the reason for that is some huge mystery or cosmic injustice, though I *am* saying I was surprised that I didn't see more people saying, for example, that playing in a men's league as a teenager is impressive, yes, *and* is also a factor you have to consider when you characterize his playing style and assess his perceived strengths and weaknesses. A teen defenseman in a men's league is going to play conservatively. It's a simple, obvious point...yet I didn't see many people explicitly making it. One of our resident Germanbros @ely s has pointed out that Seider is way more offensively inclined than his 2018-19 showing would suggest. I've seen a couple of other Germanbros make the same point over at the The Accursed HFBoards. I like the deep dive Dobber analysis. There are a couple of Europe-focused outlets that scouted him pretty thoroughly. As North Americans get easier access to info re: Europe-based draft-eligibles, I think the general tenor of discussions about these players is going to shift. People are going to be more familiar with non-marquee non-NA players and the way they think about them, rate them, pick them apart, etc. is going to change. Historically, European hockey is a black box for the North American layman. Now? I can find a stream of any game in any noteworthy league in Europe. I'm tired and I've got a headache. This is a dumb fight you're trying to pick. Edited September 8, 2019 by Dabura 1 ely s reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,206 Report post Posted September 8, 2019 Concession: That post of mine that started this back-and-forth was poorly worded. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,206 Report post Posted September 8, 2019 Veleno is having himself a tournament: https://www.nhl.com/redwings/news/trending-detroits-power-play-leads-red-wings-over-blues-7-3/c-308977804 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,206 Report post Posted September 8, 2019 (edited) Zadina's put up four points -- all assists -- through the first two games of the tournament. Speaking of Zadina... goals af Edited September 8, 2019 by Dabura Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonas Mahonas 1,872 Report post Posted September 8, 2019 25 minutes ago, Dabura said: Veleno is having himself a tournament: https://www.nhl.com/redwings/news/trending-detroits-power-play-leads-red-wings-over-blues-7-3/c-308977804 Did you see the lettering on the back of the jerseys? Guess we are going straight style this year. 1 1 2 Dabura, amato, Wheelchairsuperhero and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,206 Report post Posted September 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said: Did you see the lettering on the back of the jerseys? Guess we are going straight style this year. When someone tries to letter bait me: 2 F.Michael and Jonas Mahonas reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ely s 457 Report post Posted September 8, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Dabura said: Veleno is having himself a tournament: https://www.nhl.com/redwings/news/trending-detroits-power-play-leads-red-wings-over-blues-7-3/c-308977804 on pp he was real good in both games, finding openings and getting his shot off real quick. against St.Louis it took him until his first goal to get his offensive game really going, it´s fun to watch, very promising. Strong defensivly, real good skater and seems to be a real good fit with Zadina Edited September 8, 2019 by ely s 1 Dabura reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jonas Mahonas 1,872 Report post Posted September 9, 2019 5 hours ago, ely s said: on pp he was real good in both games, finding openings and getting his shot off real quick. against St.Louis it took him until his first goal to get his offensive game really going, it´s fun to watch, very promising. Strong defensivly, real good skater and seems to be a real good fit with Zadina AA-Veleno-Zadina will be a thing soon 3 Dabura, 13dangledangle and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
F.Michael 4,590 Report post Posted September 9, 2019 8 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said: Did you see the lettering on the back of the jerseys? Guess we are going straight style this year. 1 Dabura reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted September 9, 2019 I was out of town for a few days, so wasn't able to watch the games live. I was finally able to catch up and watch the first two games yesterday / last night. Great showing from most of our top prospects. Stats through 2 games... Goals / Assists / Shots / +/- Veleno - 4 / 0 / 11 / -2 Zadina - 0 / 4 / 7 / -1 Hirose - 0 / 2 / 0 / -2 Kuffner - 2 / 2 / 3 / 0 Smith - 1 / 1 / 5 / +2 Pearson - 1 / 1 / 9 / +1 Seider - 0 / 2 / 4 / +1 Lindstrom - 1 / 0 / 2 / -2 Regula - 0 / 0 / 2 / +1 The player I've been most pleasantly surprised with so far is Pearson. He's played really well in the first two games, last game in particular. Hopefully he can push for a spot as a bottom six center in the next year or so. Smith has been decent as well. His skating seems to have really improved over the past couple years. Pretty much every other player has played as expected, aside from Zadina being the setup man and Veleno being the trigger man on that top line... Hirose has looked good, and I know he's more of a pass first guy, but I'm a little surprised he doesn't have a single shot on goal in the first two games. Kuffner has looked good as well. Much better than that stint at the end of last season with the Wings. Of course, that's to be expected with the massive difference in level of competition, as well as role on the team. As mentioned by others, Seider has looked really good, makes smart decisions with and without the puck and looks extremely poised out there. Lindstrom has flown under the radar, which I guess is a good thing for a defensive defenseman. Same goes for Regula. I will be watching the game live tonight for sure. Can't wait! 1 Dabura reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,496 Report post Posted September 9, 2019 12 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: I was out of town for a few days, so wasn't able to watch the games live. I was finally able to catch up and watch the first two games yesterday / last night. Great showing from most of our top prospects. Stats through 2 games... Goals / Assists / Shots / +/- Veleno - 4 / 0 / 11 / -2 Zadina - 0 / 4 / 7 / -1 Hirose - 0 / 2 / 0 / -2 Kuffner - 2 / 2 / 3 / 0 Smith - 1 / 1 / 5 / +2 Pearson - 1 / 1 / 9 / +1 Seider - 0 / 2 / 4 / +1 Lindstrom - 1 / 0 / 2 / -2 Regula - 0 / 0 / 2 / +1 The player I've been most pleasantly surprised with so far is Pearson. He's played really well in the first two games, last game in particular. Hopefully he can push for a spot as a bottom six center in the next year or so. Smith has been decent as well. His skating seems to have really improved over the past couple years. Pretty much every other player has played as expected, aside from Zadina being the setup man and Veleno being the trigger man on that top line... Hirose has looked good, and I know he's more of a pass first guy, but I'm a little surprised he doesn't have a single shot on goal in the first two games. Kuffner has looked good as well. Much better than that stint at the end of last season with the Wings. Of course, that's to be expected with the massive difference in level of competition, as well as role on the team. As mentioned by others, Seider has looked really good, makes smart decisions with and without the puck and looks extremely poised out there. Lindstrom has flown under the radar, which I guess is a good thing for a defensive defenseman. Same goes for Regula. I will be watching the game live tonight for sure. Can't wait! How'd you find replays of the games to watch? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,206 Report post Posted September 9, 2019 13 hours ago, F.Michael said: I love you guys. 1 F.Michael reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted September 9, 2019 Game 1 Game 2 @kipwinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kipwinger 8,496 Report post Posted September 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Game 1 Game 2 @kipwinger Nice, thanks. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted September 9, 2019 2 hours ago, krsmith17 said: I was out of town for a few days, so wasn't able to watch the games live. I was finally able to catch up and watch the first two games yesterday / last night. Great showing from most of our top prospects. Stats through 2 games... Goals / Assists / Shots / +/- Veleno - 4 / 0 / 11 / -2 Zadina - 0 / 4 / 7 / -1 Hirose - 0 / 2 / 0 / -2 Kuffner - 2 / 2 / 3 / 0 Smith - 1 / 1 / 5 / +2 Pearson - 1 / 1 / 9 / +1 Seider - 0 / 2 / 4 / +1 Lindstrom - 1 / 0 / 2 / -2 Regula - 0 / 0 / 2 / +1 The player I've been most pleasantly surprised with so far is Pearson. He's played really well in the first two games, last game in particular. Hopefully he can push for a spot as a bottom six center in the next year or so. Smith has been decent as well. His skating seems to have really improved over the past couple years. Pretty much every other player has played as expected, aside from Zadina being the setup man and Veleno being the trigger man on that top line... Hirose has looked good, and I know he's more of a pass first guy, but I'm a little surprised he doesn't have a single shot on goal in the first two games. Kuffner has looked good as well. Much better than that stint at the end of last season with the Wings. Of course, that's to be expected with the massive difference in level of competition, as well as role on the team. As mentioned by others, Seider has looked really good, makes smart decisions with and without the puck and looks extremely poised out there. Lindstrom has flown under the radar, which I guess is a good thing for a defensive defenseman. Same goes for Regula. I will be watching the game live tonight for sure. Can't wait! Veleno and Seider have both looked really good out there. I have nothing really negative to say. Zadina has looked frustrated at times. His timing still seems to be a bit off, and he whiffed on a couple of shots that last game. Kuffner has looked great. He has a great shot and great release, that we really didn't get to see in the short stretch last year. Smith kinda reminds me of Abdelkader. He's gonna need to grind and be nasty to make this team. Peach Pearson has been a pleasant surprise as you say. Looks like a typical try-hard gamer out there. I think with Smith, Hirose, Kuffner, and Pearson you can tell they're a bit older. They've played with great pace and seem to be a step ahead transitioning up and down the ice. The player I've most been surprised by is Larsson's teammate from Denver Lukosevicius. Kinda like Pearson, he's a habitual try-hard and has been getting rewarded for it. I'll be interested to see how he plays for the Griffins this year. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted September 9, 2019 19 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Veleno and Seider have both looked really good out there. I have nothing really negative to say. Zadina has looked frustrated at times. His timing still seems to be a bit off, and he whiffed on a couple of shots that last game. Kuffner has looked great. He has a great shot and great release, that we really didn't get to see in the short stretch last year. Smith kinda reminds me of Abdelkader. He's gonna need to grind and be nasty to make this team.Peach Pearson has been a pleasant surprise as you say. Looks like a typical try-hard gamer out there. I think with Smith, Hirose, Kuffner, and Pearson you can tell they're a bit older. They've played with great pace and seem to be a step ahead transitioning up and down the ice. The player I've most been surprised by is Larsson's teammate from Denver Lukosevicius. Kinda like Pearson, he's a habitual try-hard and has been getting rewarded for it. I'll be interested to see how he plays for the Griffins this year. Please don't. Art Regner is an ass... 1 ChristopherReevesLegs reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ely s 457 Report post Posted September 9, 2019 2 hours ago, krsmith17 said: I was out of town for a few days, so wasn't able to watch the games live. I was finally able to catch up and watch the first two games yesterday / last night. Great showing from most of our top prospects. Stats through 2 games... Goals / Assists / Shots / +/- Veleno - 4 / 0 / 11 / -2 Zadina - 0 / 4 / 7 / -1 Hirose - 0 / 2 / 0 / -2 Kuffner - 2 / 2 / 3 / 0 Smith - 1 / 1 / 5 / +2 Pearson - 1 / 1 / 9 / +1 Seider - 0 / 2 / 4 / +1 Lindstrom - 1 / 0 / 2 / -2 Regula - 0 / 0 / 2 / +1 The player I've been most pleasantly surprised with so far is Pearson. He's played really well in the first two games, last game in particular. Hopefully he can push for a spot as a bottom six center in the next year or so. Smith has been decent as well. His skating seems to have really improved over the past couple years. Pretty much every other player has played as expected, aside from Zadina being the setup man and Veleno being the trigger man on that top line... Hirose has looked good, and I know he's more of a pass first guy, but I'm a little surprised he doesn't have a single shot on goal in the first two games. Kuffner has looked good as well. Much better than that stint at the end of last season with the Wings. Of course, that's to be expected with the massive difference in level of competition, as well as role on the team. As mentioned by others, Seider has looked really good, makes smart decisions with and without the puck and looks extremely poised out there. Lindstrom has flown under the radar, which I guess is a good thing for a defensive defenseman. Same goes for Regula. I will be watching the game live tonight for sure. Can't wait! I was a bit dissapointed of Hirose´s second game, I thought he struggled a bit against a rougher St louis team, but got better in the last half of the game. Pearson did well with the additional time in the second game, solid in his first. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted September 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Please don't. Art Regner is an ass... Whoever that dumb blonde with Kal and Regner was was really bad too. Carly looking cute n bubbly as always made it all better thou, missed u bb 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted September 9, 2019 Great news! 3 2 Dabura, amato, ChristopherReevesLegs and 2 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted September 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Great news! The HYPE is REAL So the competition for the 7th D-spot is like Ericsson v Daley v Bowey v Kaski v Hicketts v Cholowski v Seider Does anyone have updates on injuries? Aren't Ericsson, Daley, and Greener all questionable to start or something? Hopefully this is the lineup by the end of the year: Dekeyser - Hronek Nemeth - Seider Cholowski - Bowey Kaski/Hicketts 3 ely s, The 91 of Ryans and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
13dangledangle 957 Report post Posted September 9, 2019 19 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said: AA-Veleno-Zadina will be a thing soon This makes me very, very happy to think about 1 Jonas Mahonas reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
