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2019-20 Prospects Thread

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https://www.nhl.com/redwings/news/by-the-numbers-prospects-moritz-seider/c-317158728

 

https://www.sport.de/news/ne4060671/nhl---eishockey-youngster-moritz-seider-ueber-den-wichtigsten-sommer-in-meiner-karriere/

"He is basically seeing this offseason as his most important so far, as his goal is to make the Wings this fall. Seider is currently on the ice training with Adler Mannheim in Germany, as they prepare for the season."

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https://theathletic.com/2009681/2020/09/01/2020-nhl-organizational-rankings-no-18-detroit-red-wings/?source=rss&redirected=1

Detroit ends up at number 18 of the Athletics ranking of farm systems. It's a drop from 13th place from the year before.

Make of that what you will but obviously this years draft is another crucial one for our future.

Edited by Akakabuto

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They rank our top 11 prospects as following;

1, Seider

2, Hronek

3, Zadina

4, Veleno

5, McIsaac

6, Rasmussen

7, Cholowski

8, Berggren

9, Söderblom

10, Mastrosimone

11, Johansson

 

They also put down the following in the category of having NHL potential: Tuomisto, Berglund, Barton, Smith, Lindstrom, Larsson(G).

 

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10 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

https://theathletic.com/2009681/2020/09/01/2020-nhl-organizational-rankings-no-18-detroit-red-wings/?source=rss&redirected=1

Detroit ends up at number 18 of the Athletics ranking of farm systems. It's a drop from 13th place from the year before.

Make of that what you will but obviously this years draft is crucial for our future.

A bit of a teet slap considering where this team's been drafting since 2017. Atta boy Kenny!

Edited by The 91 of Ryans

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This doesn't really surprise me. Pronman has always been more bullish on the Wings farm system than the other Athletic prospects writer, Scott Wheeler, has been (Wheeler will do one of these too, and we'll rank higher). In part it can be explained by the fact that his assessments are based off of his initial rankings. So the more Pronman-guys you have the "better" your farm system will be. Generally not a problem, since he tends to get draft range correct most of the time. But he's been very open about the fact that he evaluates players based on the their "star potential" (my words). He really values flashy players. So he'd rank an Quinn Hughes type higher than a Seth Jones type, an Elias Petterson type higher than a Dylan Larkin type.

Obviously, the problem with that is there's SOOOOO much more to the game than offensive totals. Having workhorse type guys is super important. Look at Vegas mauling Vancouver without any really dynamic offensive guys. Detroit has got a lot of that type of player as their top prospects: Seider, Rasmussen, Veleno, McIsaac, Mastrosimone all profile that way. If we went out a drafted purely on skill (let's say Raymond, Mysak, and Piorier) with our first three picks this year we'd probably jump WAY up in his rankings because of their dynamic offense, but all of those guys are VERY boom/bust.

Edited by kipwinger

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18 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

This doesn't really surprise me. Pronman has always been more bullish on the Wings farm system than the other Athletic prospects writer, Scott Wheeler, has been (Wheeler will do one of these too, and we'll rank higher). In part it can be explained by the fact that his assessments are based off of his initial rankings. So the more Pronman-guys you have the "better" your farm system will be. Generally not a problem, since he tends to get draft range correct most of the time. But he's been very open about the fact that he evaluates players based on the their "star potential" (my words). He really values flashy players. So he'd rank an Quinn Hughes type higher than a Seth Jones type, an Elias Petterson type higher than a Dylan Larkin type.

Obviously, the problem with that is there's SOOOOO much more to the game than offensive totals. Having workhorse type guys is super important. Look at Vegas mauling Vancouver without any really dynamic offensive guys. Detroit has got a lot of that type of player as their top prospects: Seider, Rasmussen, Veleno, McIsaac, Mastrosimone all profile that way. If we went out a drafted purely on skill (let's say Raymond, Mysak, and Piorier) with our first three picks this year we'd probably jump WAY up in his rankings because of their dynamic offense, but all of those guys are VERY boom/bust.

Agree 100%.

Also, this years rankings include anyone (edit) 22 and under. Obviously, a guy like Mathews (or even Svechnikov) shouldn't really be considered a "prospect" any longer. Yet here he is, doing it. 

Edited by The 91 of Ryans

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4 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Agree 100%.

Also, this years rankings include anyone (edit) 22 and under. Obviously, a guy like Mathews (or even Svechnikov) shouldn't really be considered a "prospect" any longer. Yet here he is, doing it. 

He wrote an article about it. Basically he didn't have anything to update since last season because there hasn't been a draft yet. I get it. As I understand it, he's going to update these after the draft.

I generally find Pronman's evaluations to be pretty spot on, but I tend to disagree with his weighting system. If he says a guy is a good skater, he's a good skater. If he says a guy has bad decision making, he generally does. Pronman watches a TON of hockey in person, and talks to a lot of scouts. But he tends to weight his criteria in such a way that flashy guys always have more value than quietly effective guys.

This is something that I've observed before as well. Back in the 2000s Datsyuk was undoubtably a flashier, more skilled, player than Zetterberg. However for most of their careers (until Z's back blew up) Datsyuk wasn't more effective. Zetterberg always took on the tougher matchups (think Crosby and Toews) and (for most of their careers) scored at a similar rate. But Datsyuk "popped", as Pronman would say, so he's remembered as being a MUCH better player. It's mostly a trick of the eyes.

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14 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

He wrote an article about it. Basically he didn't have anything to update since last season because there hasn't been a draft yet. I get it. As I understand it, he's going to update these after the draft.

I generally find Pronman's evaluations to be pretty spot on, but I tend to disagree with his weighting system. If he says a guy is a good skater, he's a good skater. If he says a guy has bad decision making, he generally does. Pronman watches a TON of hockey in person, and talks to a lot of scouts. But he tends to weight his criteria in such a way that flashy guys always have more value than quietly effective guys.

This is something that I've observed before as well. Back in the 2000s Datsyuk was undoubtably a flashier, more skilled, player than Zetterberg. However for most of their careers (until Z's back blew up) Datsyuk wasn't more effective. Zetterberg always took on the tougher matchups (think Crosby and Toews) and (for most of their careers) scored at a similar rate. But Datsyuk "popped", as Pronman would say, so he's remembered as being a MUCH better player. It's mostly a trick of the eyes.

Fair assessment I think . It's probably why a guy like Zegras topped his prospect rankings back in January. Or even better, Caufiled at 4. 

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4 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

They rank our top 11 prospects as following;

1, Seider

2, Hronek

3, Zadina

4, Veleno

5, McIsaac

6, Rasmussen

7, Cholowski

8, Berggren

9, Söderblom

10, Mastrosimone

11, Johansson

 

They also put down the following in the category of having NHL potential: Tuomisto, Berglund, Barton, Smith, Lindstrom, Larsson(G).

 

McIsaac and Rasmussen should be higher. Cholowski should be lower.

Isn't Pronman the jackass who ranked Seider really really low and then ate crow about it later?

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16 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

McIsaac and Rasmussen should be higher. Cholowski should be lower.

Isn't Pronman the jackass who ranked Seider really really low and then ate crow about it later?

I think McIsaac and Rasmussen are right around where they should be, but if anything, they should probably be slightly lower, definitely not higher. There's no one in that top 4 that they should displace. Oh yeah, Zadina probably doesn't crack your top 10 though...

Johansson is the one that should be higher in my opinion.

Also, why is Hirose graduated but Hronek is not?

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12 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I think McIsaac and Rasmussen are right around where they should be, but if anything, they should probably be slightly lower, definitely not higher. There's no one in that top 4 that they should displace. Oh yeah, Zadina probably doesn't crack your top 10 though...

Johansson is the one that should be higher in my opinion.

Also, why is Hirose graduated but Hronek is not?

1st bold: lower? than who? I know who Rasmussen should be higher than. 

2nd bold: Agreed. Big time.

3rd bold:  Age. He's 24. Hronek is 22. This is a 22 and under list

35 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

McIsaac and Rasmussen should be higher. Cholowski should be lower.

Isn't Pronman the jackass who ranked Seider really really low and then ate crow about it later?

yerp

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5 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

1st bold: lower? than who? I know who Rasmussen should be higher than. 

Well, I think we both agree on the top three, and we both know where each other stand on Veleno, hence why I said "definitely not higher". "If anything slightly lower", because I believe you can make a case for a number of players being right there, with McIsaac and Rasmussen, Berggren just to name one.

9 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

3rd bold:  Age. He's 24. Hronek is 22. This is a 22 and under list

Odd, but okay...

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8 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Well, I think we both agree on the top three, and we both know where each other stand on Veleno, hence why I said "definitely not higher". "If anything slightly lower", because I believe you can make a case for a number of players being right there, with McIsaac and Rasmussen, Berggren just to name one.

Odd, but okay...

Putting my correct opinion and your incorrect opinion of Ras vs Veleno aside for now, how in hell could you think Berggren deserves a spot at 5 or 6 on this list? The kid has potential but I'm not sure he'll even make the NHL based on health alone. Rasmussen was the 2nd best forward in GRs last year and has a full NHL season under his belt. Not. even.close. 

Edited by The 91 of Ryans

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1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Putting my correct opinion and your incorrect opinion of Ras vs Veleno aside for now, how in hell could you think Berggren deserves a spot at 5 or 6 on this list? The kid has potential but I'm not sure he'll even make the NHL based on health alone. Rasmussen was the 2nd best forward in GRs last year and has a full NHL season under his belt. Not. even.close. 

I've yet to see anyone credible, rank Rasmussen ahead of Veleno, but okay, my opinion is wrong, and yours is obviously right...

Relax with your boy Rasmussen. Again, I was more so making a point that there's no way either should be higher (in my opinion), not so much that either should be lower. I even said right from the beginning, that they're right around where I'd slot them.

You're focused on Rasmussen. What about McIsaac? I'm sure you'd agree that a case could be made for a few players there... Berggren has had injury issues, but so has McIsaac...

I think the consensus would be Seider, Zadina, Veleno, Rasmussen as our top 4 prospects, not including graduates. A case could be made for about 3 or 4 other players for that 5th spot...

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Just now, krsmith17 said:

I've yet to see anyone credible, rank Rasmussen ahead of Veleno, but okay, my opinion is wrong, and yours is obviously right...

Relax with your boy Rasmussen. Again, I was more so making a point that there's no way either should be higher (in my opinion), not so much that either should be lower. I even said right from the beginning, that they're right around where I'd slot them.

You're focused on Rasmussen. What about McIsaac? I'm sure you'd agree that a case could be made for a few players there... Berggren has had injury issues, but so has McIsaac...

I think the consensus would be Seider, Zadina, Veleno, Rasmussen as our top 4 prospects, not including graduates. A case could be made for about 3 or 4 other players for that 5th spot...

You know who I like? Max Bultman. You know who he likes? ........

Anyway Rasmussen's not my boy. He's our boy. Except for you and @nyqvististhefuture. But f***. He would have taken Brannstrom at 9. He'll be your boy too in a few years. 

I agree with the top 4. Obviously. Rasmussen should be ahead of McIsaac on any list. 

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1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I think McIsaac and Rasmussen are right around where they should be, but if anything, they should probably be slightly lower, definitely not higher. There's no one in that top 4 that they should displace. Oh yeah, Zadina probably doesn't crack your top 10 though...

That's easy to explain. Ras and McIsaac project to be much more valuable players than Zadina or Veleno.

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31 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

You know who I like? Max Bultman. You know who he likes? ........

Anyway Rasmussen's not my boy. He's our boy. Except for you and @nyqvististhefuture. But f***. He would have taken Brannstrom at 9. He'll be your boy too in a few years. 

I agree with the top 4. Obviously. Rasmussen should be ahead of McIsaac on any list. 

Bultman is great. Yup, he loves Rasmussen, but still has Veleno ahead of him... I also love Rasmussen. I've said as much on several occasions. I'm not sure why you think I don't like him, just because I like Veleno more...

14 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

That's easy to explain. Ras and McIsaac project to be much more valuable players than Zadina or Veleno.

LOL

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1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

LOL

Says the man with no argument

6 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

They rank our top 11 prospects as following;

1, Seider

2, Hronek

3, Zadina

4, Veleno

5, McIsaac

6, Rasmussen

7, Cholowski

8, Berggren

9, Söderblom

10, Mastrosimone

11, Johansson

 

They also put down the following in the category of having NHL potential: Tuomisto, Berglund, Barton, Smith, Lindstrom, Larsson(G).

 

I like how Seider is already better than Hronek. Told you dumb ******* Seider was the best. Best Dman outside the NHL for over a year in fact.

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