2020 Draft Thread

[krsmith17 7,191]

22 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

TONS of guys "have it in them" based on their skill and athleticism to play different positions.  And yet they don't.  Switching from wing to center, without having ever played center, is really really rare.  Most likely because it's a harder position in a harder league.  Guys switch from center to wing because it's EASIER and they can't hack it down the middle once they get to the NHL.  Not the other way around.  Athanasiou is an amazing winger, and an ok center, for this exact reason. 

Lafreniere has never needed to play defense at a high level, never needed to win faceoffs, none of it.  Now he's going to be asked to learn to do that against Conner McDavid?  Lol.  Why bother when he's already going to be a superstar winger?

In general terms I would agree that switching from wing to center is a lot harder and doesn't make a whole lot of sense for the average player. Lafreniere is not an average player though. Lafreniere is not Athanasiou... or I should say Athanasiou is not Lafreniere. Not even close.

Asking any young player to go up against Connor McDavid is a tall order. I'm sure you'll disagree, but I'd rather have winger converted center Lafreniere going head to head against McDavid next year, than natural center Hughes going head to head against McDavid this year.

Anyway, I'm done with this. Lafreniere probably won't ever play center full time in the NHL. I still think he could and maybe even should, but whatever.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

This has been a heated debate at times here.  My only input is, IF we are lucky to get #1 OA (which we won't be) we'd draft Alexis BECAUSE he is the BPA AND he is a winger. Moving forward, we will have Larkin and Veleno as our 1/2 C's.  Even in 3 years Detroit will have plenty of bottom 6 C's to fill the roster.  Rasmussen is a natural C as well. I think if Alexis was our pick, he'd stayed a LW and play on the top line with Larkin and Mantha.  I mean, who would argue with this as a top 6 in 1-2 years?

Lafreniere - Larkin - Mantha

Zadina - Veleno - Athanasiou

Hirose - Rasmussen - Bertuzzi

...we have plenty of players to make even a competitive 4th line.  I didn't even include Svech in the top 6.  My only issue is, in 4-5 years, that is going to be a Cap breaking lineup, so we'll probably be without a couple of those guys by then.

Edited August 9, 2019 by LeftWinger

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

In general terms I would agree that switching from wing to center is a lot harder and doesn't make a whole lot of sense for the average player. Lafreniere is not an average player though. Lafreniere is not Athanasiou... or I should say Athanasiou is not Lafreniere. Not even close.

Asking any young player to go up against Connor McDavid is a tall order. I'm sure you'll disagree, but I'd rather have winger converted center Lafreniere going head to head against McDavid next year, than natural center Hughes going head to head against McDavid this year.

Anyway, I'm done with this. Lafreniere probably won't ever play center full time in the NHL. I still think he could and maybe even should, but whatever.

Going head to head against the best competition on Earth, would I rather have a guy who's never, ever, played center or a guy who's played center his whole life and was just drafted 1st overall at that position?  Hmmmm...I'll have to think about this one. 

Edited August 9, 2019 by kipwinger

[Dabura 12,207]

6 hours ago, kipwinger said:

That's EXACTLY what was being debated.  Dude said, like two weeks ago, that he wanted Lafreniere centering Zadina and AA.  I responded that Lafreniere wasn't a center, and this whole debate was born.  This is the same guy who said foward positions don't matter though.  There are no wingers or centers, just forwards.  So, ya know, dumb.  

Also, TONS of guys "have it in them" based on their skill and athleticism to play different positions.  And yet they don't.  Switching from wing to center, without having ever played center, is really really rare.  Most likely because it's a harder position in a harder league.  Guys switch from center to wing because it's EASIER and they can't hack it down the middle once they get to the NHL.  Not the other way around.  Athanasiou is an amazing winger, and an ok center, for this exact reason. 

Lafreniere has never needed to play defense at a high level, never needed to win faceoffs, none of it.  Now he's going to be asked to learn to do that against Conner McDavid?  Lol.  Why bother when he's already going to be a superstar winger?

OK, I've gone back and read through the whole debate. Basically, you fell into a Jonas trap and some side arguments sprang up and now we're debating lots of little stuff that doesn't really matter and we're all basically on the same page except for Jonas who kinda lives on his own island and does his own thing and no one's ever really sure if he's trolling or playing it straight.

I agree with you: It's rare that a natural winger converts to center at the NHL level and it's even rarer -- bordering on unheard of, at least in today's league -- that the conversion produces an "elite, elite" centerman. And there's a very good reason for that, as you noted.

I do think it's fair to say Lafreniere has qualities that suggest he could have a future at center. That's not an especially controversial idea. But I think it's also fair to doubt there's anything to that notion and to say it's all moot because you're getting a superstar winger and there's no point in trying to fix something that is the exact opposite of broken.

At the end of the day, I just want a Lafreniere-caliber player. He could be a winger or a centerman or a defenseman or a goalie -- I don't care. I just want a gamechanger. If we get Lafreniere and Yzerman and Blashill (?) are like, "We feel he belongs in the middle," I'll go along with it. I'd expect them to drop it the second it starts to look like a bad idea, because I agree that there's no reason to run that experiment unless you feel the guy just flat-out screams "stud pivot."

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Going head to head against the best competition on Earth, would I rather have a guy who's never, ever, played center or a guy who's played center his whole life and was just drafted 1st overall at that position?  Hmmmm...I'll have to think about this one. 

Going head to head against the best competition on Earth, would I rather have a guy who's played center that is probably better suited on the wing or a guy who's played wing, and *might* be just as good at center, is also, bigger, stronger and better... Hmmmm...I'll have to think about this one. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

20 minutes ago, Dabura said:

OK, I've gone back and read through the whole debate. Basically, you fell into a Jonas trap and some side arguments sprang up and now we're debating lots of little stuff that doesn't really matter and we're all basically on the same page except for Jonas who kinda lives on his own island and does his own thing and no one's ever really sure if he's trolling or playing it straight.

I agree with you: It's rare that a natural winger converts to center at the NHL level and it's even rarer -- bordering on unheard of, at least in today's league -- that the conversion produces an "elite, elite" centerman. And there's a very good reason for that, as you noted.

I do think it's fair to say Lafreniere has qualities that suggest he could have a future at center. That's not an especially controversial idea. But I think it's also fair to doubt there's anything to that notion and to say it's all moot because you're getting a superstar winger and there's no point in trying to fix something that is the exact opposite of broken.

At the end of the day, I just want a Lafreniere-caliber player. He could be a winger or a centerman or a defenseman or a goalie -- I don't care. I just want a gamechanger. If we get Lafreniere and Yzerman and Blashill (?) are like, "We feel he belongs in the middle," I'll go along with it. I'd expect them to drop it the second it starts to look like a bad idea, because I agree that there's no reason to run that experiment unless you feel the guy just flat-out screams "stud pivot."

Yeah, we need elite talent, and if we have a chance to draft a stud, a possible "generational" player, I don't care what position he plays.

Also, despite this whole debate, if we were lucky enough to draft Lafreniere, I probably wouldn't even care to try him at center, unless Veleno falls short of becoming (what I believe he will) a high end 2C.

I posted my dream top 9 a while back...

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Zadina

Lafreniere - Veleno - Mantha

Rasmussen - Athanasiou - Hirose / Svechnikov / Berggren

[ely s 457]

apart from a player we most likely will never see wearing the winged wheel, who is out there in the range of the #10 to #15 ?

because I think that is more likely to happen than the 1OA...

[Dabura 12,207]

11 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

This has been a heated debate at times here.  My only input is, IF we are lucky to get #1 OA (which we won't be) we'd draft Alexis BECAUSE he is the BPA AND he is a winger. Moving forward, we will have Larkin and Veleno as our 1/2 C's.  Even in 3 years Detroit will have plenty of bottom 6 C's to fill the roster.  Rasmussen is a natural C as well. I think if Alexis was our pick, he'd stayed a LW and play on the top line with Larkin and Mantha.  I mean, who would argue with this as a top 6 in 1-2 years?

Lafreniere - Larkin - Mantha

Zadina - Veleno - Athanasiou

Hirose - Rasmussen - Bertuzzi

Pretty much this.

Put Lafreniere on Larkin's wing and Larkin probably becomes a monster. He'd be potting so many points that he'd feel guilty about it and donate some to charity. Which is to say, Lafreniere would be doing Lafreniere things (presumably). You could put DeKeyser on Larkin's other wing and DeKeyser would magically become a 30-goal scorer. Put Zadina there and maybe he actually does become Kucherov 2.0. (That's the nice thing about Lafreniere having "centerman-like" qualities: He's good enough that he doesn't need to be playing center to impact the game like a centerman.)

Edited August 10, 2019 by Dabura

[Dabura 12,207]

20 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Zadina

Lafreniere - Veleno - Mantha

Rasmussen - Athanasiou - Hirose / Svechnikov / Berggren

>No Taylor Hall

bish plz

[Dabura 12,207]

8 minutes ago, Dabura said:

>No Taylor Hall

bish plz

Note: I'm only half-joking.

I said it about the last two drafts and I'll say it again about 2020: If we pick 1st or 2nd overall, I'd expect Holland Yzerman to shift from rebuild mode to playoffs mode and make a couple of shot-in-the-arm moves like the Devils and Rangers did this summer. Because why not? We'd have our cornerstone centerman in Larkin. We'd have our cornerstone winger in Lafreniere. We'd have good depth at forward, assuming Veleno is a good 2C and Zadina is at least as good as Mantha. Throw the defense a bone (TJ Brodie?) and we may have the makings of a half-decent back end that could surprise all the teams that have gotten so used to building their game plans around "Detroit's old, slow, fumbling defense." Sign Jacob Markstrom, because I'd trust a cheapish low-key-good goalie as much as if not more than I'd trust a Billionaire Bobrovsky type.

[Dabura 12,207]

21 hours ago, ely s said:

apart from a player we most likely will never see wearing the winged wheel, who is out there in the range of the #10 to #15 ?

because I think that is more likely to happen than the 1OA...

I can't bring myself to contemplate potential options in the 10-15 range when it's only mid-August. I don't want to become an alcoholic. I need HYPE! to keep me going.

[Dabura 12,207]

23 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I can't bring myself to contemplate potential options in the 10-15 range when it's only mid-August. I don't want to become an alcoholic. I need HYPE! to keep me going.

I will say this tho: Peeps seem to mostly agree that this is shaping up to be an unusually deep draft. (These same peeps seem to mostly agree that 2021 is shaping up to be a weak draft, FWIW.) So we'd have that going for us, assuming we don't get Lafreniere.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

On 8/9/2019 at 5:21 PM, ely s said:

apart from a player we most likely will never see wearing the winged wheel, who is out there in the range of the #10 to #15 ?

because I think that is more likely to happen than the 1OA...

You think we’re going to draft 10-15 next June ? Well your really gonna be in for a treat next season 

[xault 272]

Call me crazy, but if we don't pick top 2, I want Yaroslav Askarov over everyone. This kid just wins.

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, xault said:

Call me crazy, but if we don't pick top 2, I want Yaroslav Askarov over everyone. This kid just wins.

You're crazy.

[Dabura 12,207]

On 8/4/2019 at 6:33 PM, xault said:

Every highlight I see of Byfeild, he looks like a grown man playing against children. 

I liked what I saw of Byfield at the Hlinka-Gretzky Cup. (Watched streams. Wasn't actually there.) I'm always a little wary of kids who are much bigger and stronger than their peers, and Byfield is most definitely that (6'4-215), but he looked pretty legit.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 8/11/2019 at 12:48 AM, xault said:

Call me crazy, but if we don't pick top 2, I want Yaroslav Askarov over everyone. This kid just wins.

I have a weird underlying feeling that Larsson is gonna suit up for the Wings this year and look good.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I have a weird underlying feeling that Larsson is gonna suit up for the Wings this year and look good.

With Jimmy Howard who’s gonna likely get hurt again I’d say that’d a great bet , unless we decide not to take any chances of ******* him up and calling pickard up instead 

 

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

7 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

With Jimmy Howard who’s gonna likely get hurt again I’d say that’d a great bet , unless we decide not to take any chances of ******* him up and calling pickard up instead 

 

 

That could happen.

I think if Larsson performs well in GR and Howard gets hurt Yzerman may wanna take a look at him.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

That could happen.

I think if Larsson performs well in GR and Howard gets hurt Yzerman may wanna take a look at him.

Good chance that happens as well and for our sake we need Larsson to be the next big goaltender in the nhl so let’s hope he takes the ahl by storm 

 

at the present I’m just thinking how we could possibly add more first round picks for the 2020 draft and sadly mike green is our only hope if he dominates and that might not even be possible

just wish we’d somehow land Gardner for one year and hope he can go on pace for 50 pts and get a nice return this 2020 draft will be so good 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Good chance that happens as well and for our sake we need Larsson to be the next big goaltender in the nhl so let’s hope he takes the ahl by storm 

 

at the present I’m just thinking how we could possibly add more first round picks for the 2020 draft and sadly mike green is our only hope if he dominates and that might not even be possible

just wish we’d somehow land Gardner for one year and hope he can go on pace for 50 pts and get a nice return this 2020 draft will be so good 

Unfortunately the only players we have to sell this year who have any real value are Green and Howard. And I don't think the organization is going to sell either. Both wanna be here so I think we will be inclined to let them do that.

I think we have an extremely boring mediocre year ahead of us. No selling and no buying. Just waiting.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

9 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Unfortunately the only players we have to sell this year who have any real value are Green and Howard. And I don't think the organization is going to sell either. Both wanna be here so I think we will be inclined to let them do that.

I think we have an extremely boring mediocre year ahead of us. No selling and no buying. Just waiting.

I think there’s more of a chance Howard sticks but I don’t think yzerman has any attachment to green , if a team offers us a first or 2nds I think he’d pull the trigger with seider and cholowski having good odds at both being on the team by 2020-2021  

we 100% have a s*** year coming and with any luck we finally get that top 3 pick Cause this year will be crazy deep , I’m a gambler and with the kids coming like veleno,zadina,berggren,svechnikov etc.. and spots for top 6 being in demand I’d do AA for Edmonton’s first if it was doable and root for them to choke all season and get 2 top 10 picks but I know mostly everyone would think I’m mental haha 

come on Jake Gardner , with our luck we’d get him for one year for like 6-7 and f***** breaks his back two weeks before trade deadline with like 43 pts lol

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

 

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

It's certainly shaping up to be a very deep draft class, but Button is kidding himself if he thinks any of those players are competing with Lafreniere for the top spot. It's a battle for the number two spot in my opinion. I'm sure media will try to hype it all season as if there are players close to Lafreniere, but he will go number one and no one else will be close in my opinion.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

22 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

It's certainly shaping up to be a very deep draft class, but Button is kidding himself if he thinks any of those players are competing with Lafreniere for the top spot. It's a battle for the number two spot in my opinion. I'm sure media will try to hype it all season as if there are players close to Lafreniere, but he will go number one and no one else will be close in my opinion.

My understanding is Byfield is the closest to ousting Lahfriendyay. Accurate?