2020 Draft Thread

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Still waiting for some honest comparables @krsmith17

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Still waiting for some honest comparables @krsmith17

Huh? Comparables for who?

[Dabura 12,207]

Kinda surprised Anton Lundell isn't getting more love.

As with Stutzle and Raymond and Holtz, Lundell would demolish CHL opponents. This season, he's put up 21 points in 31 games (0.677 PPG) as an 18-year-old centerman in the Liiga. Last season, he put up 19 points in 38 games (0.5 PPG) as a 17-year-old winger in the Liiga. So, what he's doing this season isn't a fluke. He's not a superprospect like Barkov and Kakko were in their draft seasons; the production and wow factor aren't there. But I'd say 1) he's at least better than Kotkaniemi was in his draft season, and 2) his two-way prowess gives him real Selke potential. Think Ryan O'Reilly.

I feel he's more NHL-ready than nearly all of his draft-eligible peers. It might take Byfield a couple of years to find his bearings as an NHL centerman (if only because he's relatively young), whereas I could see Lundell taking regular NHL shifts as a top-six C as early as December of this year (next season).

http://www.mynhldraft.com/2020-nhl-draft/player-profiles/Anton-Lundell

https://dobberprospects.com/january-draft-report-mid-season-rankings-breakdown/

Quote

Anton Lundell is maybe the safest pick in this draft. The team drafting him will get about as close to a readymade top-line center. He will be able to affect the game at both ends of the ice almost immediately. He likely won’t have to go through the usual stint on the wing that many young centers have to go through in the NHL because of how mature his game is already. He has an excellent shot (video above) and good vision on the offensive end of the ice. He is capable of beating goaltenders from anywhere on the ice but he lives in between the dots.

https://dobberprospects.com/2020-nhl-draft-ranking-european-prospects-february-2020/

Quote

Lundell is the most complete player among this group, and he’s been getting better as the season has progressed. He has 16 points in his last 18 games. Lundell is an excellent two-way center who excels in reading plays and supporting his teammates in every situation, no matter if they’re trying to make an offensive or a defensive play. Lundell is a coach’s dream because he can be thrown to any situation without any worry of him hurting his team – he can kill penalties, run a power play, and play the last minutes of a game regardless if his team is leading or chasing. His offensive upside is not as good as the three players above him but his defensive game is much more developed. He’s a true team player with great effort level on the ice. He is a playmaker who can control the pace of the game but he also owns a dangerous wrist shot. Skating is his one weakness but even that has been getting better. I believe Lundell is ready to play in the NHL next season.

>> Prospect Deep Dive: Anton Lundell <<

[LeftWinger 4,951]

I see Columbus is in a Wild Card spot right now, I am gonna go back to the 1st and 2nd pick scenario just for a minute:

 

Detroit wins lottery, Columbus misses playoffs and jumps to #2.

Would you trade the #1 overall to them for the #2, Werenski and another pick/prospect?

[Dabura 12,207]

32 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I see Columbus is in a Wild Card spot right now, I am gonna go back to the 1st and 2nd pick scenario just for a minute:

 

Detroit wins lottery, Columbus misses playoffs and jumps to #2.

Would you trade the #1 overall to them for the #2, Werenski and another pick/prospect?

I'm gonna be honest: I'm still not sold on Werenski. I was looking at his underlying numbers the other day and I couldn't believe some of the stuff I was seeing. And I mean that in a bad way.

Everyone and his mom will tell you Werenski is a bona fide 1D, but check this out:

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/w/werenza01-advanced-ev.html

O-zone starts: 58.4%. D-zone starts: 41.6%. ???!!!

Even with that sheltered usage, his Corsi For % is a middling 48.6 and his Relative Corsi For % is an unspectacular 1.1.

Sure, he's scored 17 goals this season, but he's rocking a shooting percentage of 12.1, which, for a defenseman, is ludicrous. (His career average is 7.8.) So, I'm inclined to believe the stratospheric goal scoring is unsustainable.

I'd hold on to 1st overall, I think.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Dabura

[kipwinger 8,521]

Filip Hronek >>>>>> Zach Werenski

[LeftWinger 4,951]

Ok, fair enough.  Let me pose this question then.

If you had the #1, and the #2 team came calling (whoever it would be from the non playoff teams) who would you trade it for in addition to the #2 (assuming Byfield) and a high end prospect from the same team?

(please no mention of McDavid since EDM won't be trading him)

to : TPA - The #1 Overall pick, 3rd round pick

to DET - The #2 Overall pick, Brayden Point, Both Foote brothers

I'd have to consider it, unless Byfield is a huge step down from Lafreniere.

I'd also listen to offers from the #3 team, because if Yzerman wants a C, he could go with Stutzle at 3, and really rake in the picks/players/prospects from either team...

I know Tampa is in right now, that's just an example...

How about Florida? Would the #2, Ekblad and Serron Noel or Spencer Knight get it done? (notice I did NOT mention Tippet, )

Let me add, I have nothing against Lafreniere, I would be ecstatic if we won the lottery and drafted him! 1,000,000%

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by LeftWinger

[kipwinger 8,521]

Remember when I started telling all you losers about how awesome Marco Rossi was, and you couldn't stop butt-sniffing Lafreniere?  Chew on this nugget from the Athletic's Scott Wheeler, douchebags. 

"Rossi has reached video game levels in the OHL. He’s probably junior hockey’s most dominant three-zone player, frankly. And while he’s older than most in this class, the number of remaining doubts I have in the translation of his game sits at zero. Don’t listen to anyone who says he will have to switch to winger at the pro level, either. Rossi is a dominant defensive center who is so strong on his feet and low to the ice that I have literally seen him throw people over his shoulders. There have been times this season when Rossi was so good on faceoffs that teams have moved players to the wing because they can’t beat him. He’s got it all. He’s slick with the puck, he absorbs contact effortlessly and stick checks effortlessly. He can open up and go heel-to-heel to survey the offensive zone and he sees things that other players don’t. Though you have to consider the strength of team and age, I have little doubt as to whether Rossi would be terrorizing teams no matter where he played.

I recently asked Ottawa 67’s general manager James Boyd for his honest opinion on Rossi. He didn’t hold back.

“He’s a phenomenal player. Phenomenal. A few teams that have picked up on it. I’m biased but I think he’s the best player in our league. It’s not often you’ve got a player on your team who is the best offensive player, the best defensive player, the best guy on faceoffs, the best guy on the power play, the best guy on the penalty kill and probably your No. 1 shootout shooter,” Boyd said.

“And the thing is he doesn’t cheat, so as the game goes along, he takes over. The No. 1 thing for me is his skating — which was a concern for some people — is phenomenal. He’s just continued to improve. He is obsessed with getting better. Some guys are interested in getting better, he’s obsessed. If I told him to eat a pound of sunflower seeds every day because it would help him get to the NHL, he’d be right on it. It’s only going to continue. You hear this sort of stuff about Sidney Crosby or Shea Weber when they were juniors, it’s almost like a disorder, the striving to get better. I see the same thing in Marco, nothing’s going to stop him.”

[marcaractac 3,962]

The team who wins the draft lottery won't give a f*** about Rossi. Once Lafreniere is off the board, Rossi is absolutely part of the conversation. 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

The team who wins the draft lottery won't give a f*** about Rossi. Once Lafreniere is off the board, Rossi is absolutely part of the conversation. 

Yep.

[krsmith17 7,191]

50 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Remember when I started telling all you losers about how awesome Marco Rossi was, and you couldn't stop butt-sniffing Lafreniere?  Chew on this nugget from the Athletic's Scott Wheeler, douchebags. 

You do realize that Rossi and Lafreniere are in different leagues right? Lafreniere >>> Rossi, and it's not close. And yes, even Scott Wheeler has Lafreniere far ahead of Rossi, ranked 1st and 5th respectively.

[marcaractac 3,962]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You do realize that Rossi and Lafreniere are in different leagues right? Lafreniere >>> Rossi, and it's not close. And yes, even Scott Wheeler has Lafreniere far ahead of Rossi, ranked 1st and 5th respectively.

But he found someone whose opinions align with his! Surely he wins.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

11 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

But he found someone whose opinions align with his! Surely he wins.

I bet he didn't even watch the games

[kipwinger 8,521]

23 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You do realize that Rossi and Lafreniere are in different leagues right? Lafreniere >>> Rossi, and it's not close. And yes, even Scott Wheeler has Lafreniere far ahead of Rossi, ranked 1st and 5th respectively.

You're right, Lafreniere is way better.  Which is why he's worse defensively, plays an easier position, and has the same number of points.  They're clearly worlds apart.

Edit: Also, they're both in the CHL.  So you can stop with this "different leagues" crap.  They have the exact same rules, in the exact same country, and the exact same recruiting pool.  There are marginal differences in scoring between the OHL, WHL, or QMJHL, but they change almost ever single year.  If they're "different leagues" because of that, then so are the AL and NL in Major League Baseball. Which is, obviously, idiotic.

Edited February 19, 2020 by kipwinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

53 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

You're right, Lafreniere is way better.  Which is why he's worse defensively, plays an easier position, and has the same number of points.  They're clearly worlds apart.

Edit: Also, they're both in the CHL.  So you can stop with this "different leagues" crap.  They have the exact same rules, in the exact same country, and the exact same recruiting pool.  There are marginal differences in scoring between the OHL, WHL, or QMJHL, but they change almost ever single year.  If they're "different leagues" because of that, then so are the AL and NL in Major League Baseball. Which is, obviously, idiotic.

So if you had the number one pick in this year's draft, you would draft Marco Rossi 1st overall? LOL, you really are dumb...

[kipwinger 8,521]

17 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

So if you had the number one pick in this year's draft, you would draft Marco Rossi 1st overall? LOL, you really are dumb...

So in the face of me pointing out that Rossi is better defensively, plays a harder position, and scores just as much as Lafreniere this is your response?  Why don't you address the facts?  Tell me why Lafreniere is so much better "and it's not even close".  Seems pretty close to me. 

Edit: Also, I've said what I would do multiple times.  If I had the 1st pick I'd trade back and absolutely fleece some gullible dummy who (like you) thinks there's some huge divide between Lafreniere and the rest of the top 4 or 5 picks.  Then I'd take one of Byfield, Stutzle, or Rossi along with the haul I got from that other GM and continue to rebuild my team. 

See, unlike you, I don't mind having a contrary point of view once in while and doing so definitively and publicly.  I think Lafreniere will probably end up being about as good as Patrik Laine. And I think if you look back across most NHL drafts you'll find that the best centers and defensemen are more valuable pieces than the best wingers, regardless of draft position. 

So yeah, I wouldn't draft him.

Edited February 19, 2020 by kipwinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

So in the face of me pointing out that Rossi is better defensively, plays a harder position, and scores just as much as Lafreniere this is your response?  Why don't you address the facts?  Tell me why Lafreniere is so much better "and it's not even close".  Seems pretty close to me. 

Edit: Also, I've said what I would do multiple times.  If I had the 1st pick I'd trade back and absolutely fleece some gullible dummy who (like you) thinks there's some huge divide between Lafreniere and the rest of the top 4 or 5 picks.  Then I'd take one of Byfield, Stutzle, or Rossi along with the haul I got from that other GM and continue to rebuild my team. 

See, unlike you, I don't mind having a contrary point of view once in while and doing so definitively and publicly.  I think Lafreniere will probably end up being about as good as Patrik Laine. And I think if you look back across most NHL drafts you'll find that the best centers and defensemen are more valuable pieces than the best wingers, regardless of draft position. 

So yeah, I wouldn't draft him.

How about track record, for one? Lafreniere has been ELITE for much longer than Rossi. He came out of nowhere. Always be wary of late risers.

Yeah, you're always thinking outside of the box with your big brain moves... LOL

[kipwinger 8,521]

20 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

How about track record, for one? Lafreniere has been ELITE for much longer than Rossi. He came out of nowhere. Always be wary of late risers.

Yeah, you're always thinking outside of the box with your big brain moves... LOL

You're absolutely right, Lafreniere has a much better track record when he was in midget hockey. ELITE!!!  And that totally matters as much as what a guy does in his draft year. Which is why Joe Veleno is such a superstar these days. 

[LeftWinger 4,951]

I really hope to get the #1, but #2 will be great as well.

If we drop to #4, I'll be a bit disappointed, but honestly, I can remember when we drafted a young player (that was not our first target) at #4 and it sure worked out better than any of the three ahead of him.  BTW, this player is currently our GM.

I really think that is we drop to #2, Yzerman may still want Stutzle, in which he may be able to trade the #2 to the #3 team so they can have Byfield.  Or maybe acquire another 1st or top prospect for future considerations, in which those considerations will be to NOT draft Byfield at #2.  Yzerman gets NJ's other 1st (via ARZ) for example, and drafts Stutzle at #2 then another top player at 12. (of  course just guessing where the NJ and ARZ picks end up) and NJ gets their player at #3....unless their player is Stutzle too!

1. Montreal

2 Detroit

3. New Jersey

12. New Jersey (via ARZ)

Edited February 19, 2020 by LeftWinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

27 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

You're absolutely right, Lafreniere has a much better track record when he was in midget hockey. ELITE!!!  And that totally matters as much as what a guy does in his draft year. Which is why Joe Veleno is such a superstar these days. 

... or you can go back one single season and see the drastic difference...

Lafreniere >>> Rossi. Get over it.

[F.Michael 4,590]

Bit off topic here, but what's the chance of having another '1 - 2 punch' in this draft like we see currently with McDavid, and Eichel from the 2015 draft?

I must admit my surprise to see Eichel's numbers - he'll certainly come close to 100 pts this season.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I really hope to get the #1, but #2 will be great as well.

If we drop to #4, I'll be a bit disappointed, but honestly, I can remember when we drafted a young player (that was not our first target) at #4 and it sure worked out better than any of the three ahead of him.  BTW, this player is currently our GM.

I really think that is we drop to #2, Yzerman may still want Stutzle, in which he may be able to trade the #2 to the #3 team so they can have Byfield.  Or maybe acquire another 1st or top prospect for future considerations, in which those considerations will be to NOT draft Byfield at #2.  Yzerman gets NJ's other 1st (via ARZ) for example, and drafts Stutzle at #2 then another top player at 12. (of  course just guessing where the NJ and ARZ picks end up) and NJ gets their player at #3....unless their player is Stutzle too!

1. Montreal

2 Detroit

3. New Jersey

12. New Jersey (via ARZ)

Not enough difference between Byfield and Stutzle talent wise to justify giving up the assets in would require to move up one spot. There might even be 3 C's drafted in the top 5.

1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

Bit off topic here, but what's the chance of having another '1 - 2 punch' in this draft like we see currently with McDavid, and Eichel from the 2015 draft?

I must admit my surprise to see Eichel's numbers - he'll certainly come close to 100 pts this season.

It's not there. Its Laff in a class by himself and then about 3 or 4 guys who are interchangeable.

[F.Michael 4,590]

9 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Not enough difference between Byfield and Stutzle talent wise to justify giving up the assets in would require to move up one spot. There might even be 3 C's drafted in the top 5.

It's not there. Its Laff in a class by himself and then about 3 or 4 guys who are interchangeable.

Has Eichel met, or exceeded expectations?

Forgive my ignorance, but I don't recall any 'hype' around him since it was all about McDavid.

[marcaractac 3,962]

3 hours ago, F.Michael said:

Has Eichel met, or exceeded expectations?

Forgive my ignorance, but I don't recall any 'hype' around him since it was all about McDavid.

I'd say at this point he is meeting him. There was definitely hype for him, but was always second to McDavid. Literally any other year he'd have been the #1. 

[F.Michael 4,590]

15 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

I'd say at this point he is meeting him. There was definitely hype for him, but was always second to McDavid. Literally any other year he'd have been the #1. 

So I have to ask...Is there another player in this upcoming draft that comes in as a 'close 2nd' to Lafreniere, or are the picks from 2 thru 4 a very 'distant' group?

Edited February 20, 2020 by F.Michael