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2020 Draft Thread

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5 hours ago, Akakabuto said:

Ottawa have two picks with a combined percentage of 20 for 1st.  Detroit is at 18,5%. 
I’ll admit I’m not well versed in chanceology so please correct me if I’m wrong. 
 

You're correct. While our one dice throw has a higher shot... they have more dice throws.

We have no extra first this year. Existence is pain.

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Just now, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You're correct. While our one dice throw has a higher shot... they have more dice throws.

We have no extra first this year. Existence is pain.

Rossi is the best player in this draft, r-right guys?

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7 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Rossi is the best player in this draft, r-right guys?

Yep. Still the best.  If scoring flashy goals meant anything, Andreas Athanasiou would be an all-star.  You can literally find the exact same types of tweets a year ago about how "cheat code" Jack Hughes was too. Not working out so great for him now though.

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10 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Yep. Still the best.  If scoring flashy goals meant anything, Andreas Athanasiou would be an all-star.  You can literally find the exact same types of tweets a year ago about how "cheat code" Jack Hughes was too. Not working out so great for him now though.

Listened to The Full 60 podcast and Corey Pronman holds Hughes higher than Lafreniere. 
He sounds like a moron though. 

16 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Yzerman: "HA HA HA foolish mortal"

*Drafts #18th ranked player 1st overall*

Cant wait for Stephen to draft some finnish bust like Lundell in the top three. 
 

Edited by Akakabuto
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7 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Listened to The Full 60 podcast and Corey Pronman holds Hughes higher than Lafreniere. 
He sounds like a moron though.

I do too, on a long enough developmental curve. Centers just impact the game in so many more ways than wingers do.  And even within those groups, some guys just have a greater impact based on how they play the game.  Remember when we all patted ourselves on the back because someone somewhere said "Datsyuk is better than Crosby" back in 2008?  Why do you think that was said?  Datsyuk never scored more.  But he did every single other thing at a higher level.  

6 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

The amount of clout Corey Pronman receives for absolutely no reason is incredible.

And yet ever single person here bases their opinions on prospects, to some extent, on the rankings of guys like Pronman or Button or McKenzie or whomever.  Nobody here has probably watched more than a game or two of any of the top guys, let alone all of them. We only think Byfield > Perfetti because guys like Pronman say so.

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10 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

And yet ever single person here bases their opinions on prospects, to some extent, on the rankings of guys like Pronman or Button or McKenzie or whomever.  Nobody here has probably watched more than a game or two of any of the top guys, let alone all of them. We only think Byfield > Perfetti because guys like Pronman say so.

You're talking to the only guy on here who doesn't follow draft rankings at all. Seriously. I don't see them unless you guys post em.

I'm confident Yzerman will make the right decision. He has my faith after Seider.

 

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12 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

If only a single other person in the entire hockey world were as smart as kipwinger...

Every single person in the hockey world gasped when Yzerman drafted Seider 6th overall

Those gasps widened their mouth holes just large enough for Yzerman to slide his massive dong into them.

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33 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Every single person in the hockey world gasped when Yzerman drafted Seider 6th overall

Those gasps widened their mouth holes just large enough for Yzerman to slide his massive dong into them.

Exactly. How often does "every single person" in hockey have to be wrong about prospects before we can all agree that it's worthwhile to question their evaluations? 

Edited by kipwinger

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3 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Exactly. How often does "every single person" in hockey have to be wrong about prospects before we can all agree that it's worthwhile to question their evaluations? 

Exactly why I don't follow draft prospects and find the en-devour completely futile.

Unless you watch the prospects and come up with your own original opinions, you're just parroting the rigid narrative of journalists who are no more of scouts than any of us are. Maybe it's an educated guess, but it's a guess nonetheless. The only rankings I actually care about are Yzerman's, Verbeek's, Draper's, and Andersson's. Sadly those are kept away from the public.

I became infatuated with Seider going into the draft last year, because I actually watched him and liked what I saw, which is rare for me with a draft prospect. I certainly put no bearing on his draft ranking determined by the media. I thought he was the best Dman in the draft regardless of what those amateurs suggested. I was lucky to be (hopefully) right about that so far.

I should probably take the time to actually watch Rossi and Stutzle. I haven't at all so far besides maybe a few short clips of Stutzle. Not promising I will get the same level of hype from them that I got from Seider though.

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47 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Every single person in the hockey world gasped when Yzerman drafted Seider 6th overall

Those gasps widened their mouth holes just large enough for Yzerman to slide his massive dong into them.

Not at all the same thing...

16 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Exactly. How often does "every single person" in hockey have to be wrong about prospects before we can all agree that it's worthwhile to question their evaluations? 

It's fair to question "their" evaluations. But to say that the 5th(ish) ranked prospect is undoubtedly better than the consensus top ranked prospect, is dumb. You go on and on about how little any of us really know about any of these prospects, but I guess you're the exception, right?...

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3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Exactly why I don't follow draft prospects and find the en-devour completely futile.

Unless you watch the prospects and come up with your own original opinions, you're just parroting the rigid narrative of journalists who are no more of scouts than any of us are. Maybe it's an educated guess, but it's a guess nonetheless. The only rankings I actually care about are Yzerman's, Verbeek's, Draper's, and Andersson's. Sadly those are kept away from the public.

McKenzie doesn't watch any of these prospects. What he does do, is compile rankings from each NHL team's amateur scouts. If that doesn't hold any value, nothing should.

Also, whether or not you agree with guys like Pronman or Wheeler is irrelevant. Fact is, they watch a hell of a lot more of these prospects than all of us combined.

I don't care if you look at scouting reports or rankings, but don't pretend to know more than those that do. Like anything, they need to be taken with a grain of salt, but they (McKenzie in particular) are valuable tools.

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1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

Not at all the same thing...

It's fair to question "their" evaluations. But to say that the 5th(ish) ranked prospect is undoubtedly better than the consensus top ranked prospect, is dumb. You go on and on about how little any of us really know about any of these prospects, but I guess you're the exception, right?...

He is better.  Because there's more to hockey than scoring.  As I've said many times, Rossi scores as much as Lafreniere (minus his very first year on NA ice), he is a much better defender (every single person says so!), plays a harder position with more responsibility, takes (and wins) faceoffs, and is on the PK.  Lafreniere scores.  That's about it.

I think Rossi will probably be like a Claude Girioux and Lafreniere will be like a Tarasenko.  And I'd ALWAYS take Giroux over Tarasenko.

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1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

He is better.  Because there's more to hockey than scoring.  As I've said many times, Rossi scores as much as Lafreniere (minus his very first year on NA ice), he is a much better defender (every single person says so!), plays a harder position with more responsibility, takes (and wins) faceoffs, and is on the PK.  Lafreniere scores.  That's about it.

I think Rossi will probably be like a Claude Girioux and Lafreniere will be like a Tarasenko.  And I'd ALWAYS take Giroux over Tarasenko.

LOL whatever you say...

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1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

McKenzie doesn't watch any of these prospects. What he does do, is compile rankings from each NHL team's amateur scouts. If that doesn't hold any value, nothing should.

Also, whether or not you agree with guys like Pronman or Wheeler is irrelevant. Fact is, they watch a hell of a lot more of these prospects than all of us combined.

I don't care if you look at scouting reports or rankings, but don't pretend to know more than those that do. Like anything, they need to be taken with a grain of salt, but they (McKenzie in particular) are valuable tools.

Not that valuable.  I can go through almost every recent draft and find something glaringly wrong about the consensus top 3-5 pick.  It's odd that all those guys who "know more" get the same things wrong about the same players in the same ways, year after year.  It's almost like their opinions are largely influenced by each other.

Short list of things almost "everyone" agreed on before the draft but were totally wrong about:

1. 2012: Yakupov, Murrayl, Galchenyuk the best three players in the draft.  Wrong.

2. 2013: Jonathan Drouin top line level talent.  Wrong.

3. 2014:  Leon Draisaitl wasn't elite.  Wrong

4. 2015: Dylan Strome top line level talent.  Wrong

5. 2016: Jesse Puljujarvi top line level talent.  Wrong

6. 2017: Nolan Patrick and Nico Hischier > Miro Heiskanen and Cale Makar.  Wrong.

7. 2018: Rasmus Dahlin is generational. Quinn Hughes isn't in same tier.  Wrong.

8.  2019: Jack Hughes was "near generational".  Wrong.

 

If I would have said Cale Makar was better than Hirschier or Patrick in 2017 you'd respond the same way you are now.  You'd laugh me out of the building and point to all the consensus people who "know better".  And you'd all be wrong, wrong, wrong. 

14 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

LOL whatever you say...

Does Rossi not play the harder position?  Is he not scoring as much?  Is he not better defensively?  Does he not play on the PK?  Is he not a top faceoff guy?  Nothing I said is inaccurate. 

I'm giving you actual reasons for my opinion and you've got nothing.  Refute anything I said above with actual evidence.  Dare you.

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22 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

He is better.  Because there's more to hockey than scoring.  As I've said many times, Rossi scores as much as Lafreniere (minus his very first year on NA ice), he is a much better defender (every single person says so!), plays a harder position with more responsibility, takes (and wins) faceoffs, and is on the PK.  Lafreniere scores.  That's about it.

I think Rossi will probably be like a Claude Girioux and Lafreniere will be like a Tarasenko.  And I'd ALWAYS take Giroux over Tarasenko.

Y'all ever see a take so bad that you just have to go to sleep?

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1 minute ago, marcaractac said:

Y'all ever see a take so bad that you just have to go to sleep?

Did I miss something?  Is he some stud two-way player and everyone just decided not to talk about that aspect of his game?

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12 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Not at all the same thing...

Because it's a 1st and not a 6th? That's pretty short-sighted if you ask me. 1st overall rankings are often incorrect. Media rankings are far from the dogma they and fans would have one believe.

14 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

It's fair to question "their" evaluations. But to say that the 5th(ish) ranked prospect is undoubtedly better than the consensus top ranked prospect, is dumb. You go on and on about how little any of us really know about any of these prospects, but I guess you're the exception, right?...

Seider was ranked what? 20-25 most of the season? And ended up rising to 6th. Now he looks like he should have gone #1.

You're just calling the notion dumb with no educated retort. Sorry that your sacred rankings are being tested.

4 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

McKenzie doesn't watch any of these prospects. What he does do, is compile rankings from each NHL team's amateur scouts. If that doesn't hold any value, nothing should.

It doesn't hold (significant) value. Who's he talking to? 100 Hakan Andersson's? or 5 Jeff Findlay's - the guy who drafts based on size first?

Furthermore, you better bet that scouts and agents feed the media misinformation non-stop. That's part of the game. I put myself in a scouts shoes and I would NEVER reveal that I'm super high on Moritz Seider. In fact I would feed McKenzie BS I don't believe like that Zadina is the best player in the draft.

23 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Also, whether or not you agree with guys like Pronman or Wheeler is irrelevant. Fact is, they watch a hell of a lot more of these prospects than all of us combined.

If they were such gifted talent assessors teams would be clamoring to hire them. They're not. Because they're amateur journalists pretending to be scouts. Nothing more.

25 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't care if you look at scouting reports or rankings, but don't pretend to know more than those that do. Like anything, they need to be taken with a grain of salt, but they (McKenzie in particular) are valuable tools.

Here's where you've misinterpreted my entire stance. I'm not claiming to know more than Mckenzie or you or Kip or Pronman. I'm claiming none of the mentioned or I really know s***. So to treat Pronman or McKenzie as gospel is foolish.

I'm much more amicable to any one on this board who watches a prospect and can post a long, detailed, and insightful post about said player either for or against.

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14 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Not that valuable.  I can go through almost every recent draft and find something glaringly wrong about the consensus top 3-5 pick.  It's odd that all those guys who "know more" get the same things wrong about the same players in the same ways, year after year.  It's almost like their opinions are largely influenced by each other.

Short list of things almost "everyone" agreed on before the draft but were totally wrong about:

1. 2012: Yakupov, Murrayl, Galchenyuk the best three players in the draft.  Wrong.

2. 2013: Jonathan Drouin top line level talent.  Wrong.

3. 2014:  Leon Draisaitl wasn't elite.  Wrong

4. 2015: Dylan Strome top line level talent.  Wrong

5. 2016: Jesse Puljujarvi top line level talent.  Wrong

6. 2017: Nolan Patrick and Nico Hischier > Miro Heiskanen and Cale Makar.  Wrong.

7. 2018: Rasmus Dahlin is generational. Quinn Hughes isn't in same tier.  Wrong.

8.  2019: Jack Hughes was "near generational".  Wrong.

If I would have said Cale Makar was better than Hirschier or Patrick in 2017 you'd respond the same way you are now.  You'd laugh me out of the building and point to all the consensus people who "know better".  And you'd all be wrong, wrong, wrong. 

Does Rossi not play the harder position?  Is he not scoring as much?  Is he not better defensively?  Does he not play on the PK?  Is he not a top faceoff guy?  Nothing I said is inaccurate. 

I'm giving you actual reasons for my opinion and you've got nothing.  Refute anything I said above with actual evidence.  Dare you.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing... But I'm sure you knew Yakupov was a bust, and that Draisaitl was going to be a beast, and Heiskanen and Makar were going to be the best players or their draft class...

How do you not have a job with an NHL organization? You should apply. Just please don't apply with the Red Wings...

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Just now, krsmith17 said:

Hindsight is a beautiful thing... But I'm sure you knew Yakupov was a bust, and that Draisaitl was going to be a beast, and Heiskanen and Makar were going to be the best players or their draft class...

How do you not have a job with an NHL organization? You should apply. Just please don't apply with the Red Wings...

I'm pointing out instances in which consensus rankings were obviously wrong.  If all those guys know so much why were they ALL so wrong on so many top five picks, year after year?

My point has never been that I get everything right.  My point is that "everybody" gets top picks wrong frequently enough to suggest that their consensus 1st overall choice may not actually be the best player in the draft this year. 

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