2020 Draft Thread

[kipwinger 8,524]

23 hours ago, TLGTrico said:

I personally don't see Cole Perfetti as a top 5 guy in this draft, but I'm preparing myself for him being the pick.

Same here. I think anybody who gets him is getting a playmaking winger. Not something I'd be targeting if I'm the at the Red Wings stage of the rebuild. But apparently he's family friends with Kris Draper, and apparently the Wings are all about nepotism these days, so I'm sure he'll be our guy.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

21 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Same here. I think anybody who gets him is getting a playmaking winger. Not something I'd be targeting if I'm the at the Red Wings stage of the rebuild. But apparently he's family friends with Kris Draper, and apparently the Wings are all about nepotism these days, so I'm sure he'll be our guy.

Not saying I want him at 4, but I wouldn't call taking a guy ranked in the top 5 by Pronman, Wheeler, Button, MacKenzie etc "nepotism". 

[kipwinger 8,524]

8 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Not saying I want him at 4, but I wouldn't call taking a guy ranked in the top 5 by Pronman, Wheeler, Button, MacKenzie etc "nepotism". 

If you took him because you know him, and not because he's the best fit for your team, then wouldn't it be nepotism though?

Edit: Also, the "nepotism" comment was basically a tongue-in-cheek dig at the fact that our team is now being run by Yzerman, Verbeek, Draper, Howe, Maltby, Fischer, Cleary. Who knew that the most qualified guy for almost every position available in the Red Wings organization just happened to be a guy who formerly played for the team?  That's a serious coincidence.

Edited August 17, 2020 by kipwinger

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

8 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

If you took him because you know him, and not because he's the best fit for your team, then wouldn't it be nepotism though?

Edit: Also, the "nepotism" comment was basically a tongue-in-cheek dig at the fact that our team is now being run by Yzerman, Verbeek, Draper, Howe, Maltby, Fischer, Cleary. Who knew that the most qualified guy for almost every position available in the Red Wings organization just happened to be a guy who formerly played for the team?  That's a serious coincidence.

According to some worthwhile hockey guys, Perfetti as BPA at 4 would not be a stretch. And at this point in their rebuild they should absolutely be taking BPA. If they think it's Rossi? Cool. Raymond? Cool. Askarov? Cool. Drysdale? Cool. Perfetti? Nepotism? Nah. Cool. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 hour ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

According to some worthwhile hockey guys, Perfetti as BPA at 4 would not be a stretch. And at this point in their rebuild they should absolutely be taking BPA. If they think it's Rossi? Cool. Raymond? Cool. Askarov? Cool. Drysdale? Cool. Perfetti? Nepotism? Nah. Cool. 

The BPA argument always seems so dumb to me. For one, there's typically no obvious difference in the quality the 4th, 5th, or 6th (or for that matter the 29th, 30th, and 31st) players drafted. Second, teams are chronically unable to DETERMINE who's the best player on draft day. Hence why guys like Petterson or Heiskanen or Makar, or Hughes fall in favor of guys who aren't "better". It's a flawed way of drafting because there aren't obvious differences in quality between these guys on draft day AND if there were, GMs haven't been largely unable to discern those differences.

Again, the "nepotism" comment was me being silly. However, because it bothers you I'm going to bring it up all the time from now on. We're basically the Kevin Lowe/Craig McTavish Oilers now. Nepotism run amock.

[TLGTrico 626]

If Yzerman is taking Perfetti, I really hope it's for no other reason than him believing he's the best a available.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

21 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

The BPA argument always seems so dumb to me. For one, there's typically no obvious difference in the quality the 4th, 5th, or 6th (or for that matter the 29th, 30th, and 31st) players drafted. Second, teams are chronically unable to DETERMINE who's the best player on draft day. Hence why guys like Petterson or Heiskanen or Makar, or Hughes fall in favor of guys who aren't "better". It's a flawed way of drafting because there aren't obvious differences in quality between these guys on draft day AND if there were, GMs haven't been largely unable to discern those differences.

Again, the "nepotism" comment was me being silly. However, because it bothers you I'm going to bring it up all the time from now on. We're basically the Kevin Lowe/Craig McTavish Oilers now. Nepotism run amock.

Gotcha. Only YOU can discern the differences. Otherwise, why complain about Perfetti at 4? I mean, now that we've ruled out nepotism. 

[mackel 681]

3 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Same here. I think anybody who gets him is getting a playmaking winger. Not something I'd be targeting if I'm the at the Red Wings stage of the rebuild. But apparently he's family friends with Kris Draper, and apparently the Wings are all about nepotism these days, so I'm sure he'll be our guy.

Yea if he's our pick, I'm afraid we're tuning into the late 90s/2000s Oilers...  

[kipwinger 8,524]

30 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Gotcha. Only YOU can discern the differences. Otherwise, why complain about Perfetti at 4? I mean, now that we've ruled out nepotism. 

Nope, I get picks wrong all the time. I just think it's dumb to argue for BPA when nobody has any good means of determining who that is AND the best players on draft day frequently are NOT the best players 5 or 10 years later.

I'm not really saying anything revolutionary either. If you just wanted BPA you'd simply look at a guys stats, draft the "best" one and call it a day. There's a reason GMs spend so much time looking at things like work ethic, growth potential, quality of competition, roles, etc. Also, a HUGE part of who turns out "better" has to do with your player development system and is completely independent of the player anyway.

BPA is just a dumb mantra that dumb fans repeat without really thinking about it. Don't be that guy and there's nothing to worry about.

19 minutes ago, mackel said:

Yea if he's our pick, I'm afraid we're tuning into the late 90s/2000s Oilers...  

We practically are already. Next thing you know Marty Lapointe will be the goaltending coach and Boyd Devereaux will be heading our analytics department.

Edited August 17, 2020 by kipwinger

[TLGTrico 626]

I wonder what number Perfetti takes if he's the pick.  Cause I'm pretty sure he won't be wearing 91.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, TLGTrico said:

I wonder what number Perfetti takes if he's the pick.  Cause I'm pretty sure he won't be wearing 91.

19 obviously

[marcaractac 3,963]

On 8/17/2020 at 5:52 PM, kipwinger said:

I just think it's dumb to argue for BPA when nobody has any good means of determining who that is AND the best players on draft day frequently are NOT the best players 5 or 10 years later.

This. I get so tired of all this BPA talk when nobody who can even agree who it is in the top 10 outside of Lafreniere and maybe Byfield. IMO, if there is a group of 3-4 players that are ranked equivalently among scouts, take the damn center or dman. 

Assuming Lafreniere, Byfield, Stützle go 1-2-3, I'm team Drysdale or Rossi.  

[krsmith17 7,191]

A team should always take the best player available, regardless of position. However, it's BPA based on the organizations rankings, not TSN or whatever other rankings we as fans have access to.

Assuming Lafreniere, Byfield, Stutzle go 1-2-3, I'm team whoever Yzerman and his scouts deem to be best player available. If they think a winger like Raymond or Holtz is that player, that should be the pick.

Teams that draft based on organizational need, are the teams that miss out on better players in the draft. If you can't trust your scouts, hire better scouts...

Also, I have no idea why some are so convinced that Rossi will be a center at the NHL level, but Perfetti won't...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

A team should always take the best player available, regardless of position. However, it's BPA based on the organizations rankings, not TSN or whatever other rankings we as fans have access to.

Assuming Lafreniere, Byfield, Stutzle go 1-2-3, I'm team whoever Yzerman and his scouts deem to be best player available. If they think a winger like Raymond or Holtz is that player, that should be the pick.

Teams that draft based on organizational need, are the teams that miss out on better players in the draft. If you can't trust your scouts, hire better scouts...

Also, I have no idea why some are so convinced that Rossi will be a center at the NHL level, but Perfetti won't...

I thought this was pretty obvious. Otherwise you or I could run any teams draft. 

This was all born out of the sentiment that taking Perfetti at 4 would be some kind of off-the-board mistake. Which is a 100% unjustified claim. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

27 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I thought this was pretty obvious. Otherwise you or I could run any teams draft. 

This was all born out of the sentiment that taking Perfetti at 4 would be some kind of off-the-board mistake. Which is a 100% unjustified claim. 

Taking Seider at 6 was an off-the-board mistake that seems to be working out quite well (still very early)...

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 hour ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I thought this was pretty obvious. Otherwise you or I could run any teams draft. 

This was all born out of the sentiment that taking Perfetti at 4 would be some kind of off-the-board mistake. Which is a 100% unjustified claim. 

Nobody suggested it would be off the board. It would, however, be a mistake. You're just making sh*t up and then arguing against it.

[kipwinger 8,524]

3 hours ago, marcaractac said:

This. I get so tired of all this BPA talk when nobody who can even agree who it is in the top 10 outside of Lafreniere and maybe Byfield. IMO, if there is a group of 3-4 players that are ranked equivalently among scouts, take the damn center or dman. 

Assuming Lafreniere, Byfield, Stützle go 1-2-3, I'm team Drysdale or Rossi.  

Exactly. I've been saying for years that good centers (and to a slightly lesser extent d-men) impact the game in so many more ways than good wingers that given this choice I'll take a slightly less offensive center over a high scoring winger. Need proof? Ryan O'Reilly. If you asked every fan on LGW to name the top 5 players in the league NONE of them would have picked Ryan O'Reilly. Mostly because he's not an elite scorer. But check out how he's currently DOMINATING the Vancouver Canucks right now.

 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

10 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Nobody suggested it would be off the board. It would, however, be a mistake. You're just making sh*t up and then arguing against it.

lol U don't know anything about s*** holmes

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Exactly. I've been saying for years that good centers (and to a slightly lesser extent d-men) impact the game in so many more ways than good wingers that given this choice I'll take a slightly less offensive center over a high scoring winger. Need proof? Ryan O'Reilly. If you asked every fan on LGW to name the top 5 players in the league NONE of them would have picked Ryan O'Reilly. Mostly because he's not an elite scorer. But check out how he's currently DOMINATING the Vancouver Canucks right now.

 

Cool. Lundell it is. 

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by The 91 of Ryans

[marcaractac 3,963]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Exactly. I've been saying for years that good centers (and to a slightly lesser extent d-men) impact the game in so many more ways than good wingers that given this choice I'll take a slightly less offensive center over a high scoring winger. Need proof? Ryan O'Reilly. If you asked every fan on LGW to name the top 5 players in the league NONE of them would have picked Ryan O'Reilly. Mostly because he's not an elite scorer. But check out how he's currently DOMINATING the Vancouver Canucks right now.

 

ROR is a ******* beast, and anyone who thinks otherwise is blind. Lol Sabres....

While I was fully aboard the Lafreniere train, it's because I see him as in a teir above the rest. In that case, sure, take the winger. As long as he is more than "guy who puts up points" which I feel Laffy is. Sure the kid won't win any Selke trophies, but he does backcheck and play his ass off. He does come up clutch, he isn't afraid to battle for the puck, and he isn't afraid to play physical. 

But he is off the table, and Drysdale and Rossi I feel are the best options at #4. Though I kind of expect the Sens to take one of them at #3 tbh. Seeing the impact Makar and Q.Hughes are currently having in the playoffs as kids sure makes Drysdale's stock rise. If we draft someone like Raymond I'll be quite disappointed.  

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

3 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

ROR is a ******* beast, and anyone who thinks otherwise is blind. Lol Sabres....

While I was fully aboard the Lafreniere train, it's because I see him as in a teir above the rest. In that case, sure, take the winger. As long as he is more than "guy who puts up points" which I feel Laffy is. Sure the kid won't win any Selke trophies, but he does backcheck and play his ass off. He does come up clutch, he isn't afraid to battle for the puck, and he isn't afraid to play physical. 

But he is off the table, and Drysdale and Rossi I feel are the best options at #4. Though I kind of expect the Sens to take one of them at #3 tbh. Seeing the impact Makar and Q.Hughes are currently having in the playoffs as kids sure makes Drysdale's stock rise. If we draft someone like Raymond I'll be quite disappointed.  

If OTT takes Drysdale then we take Stutzle or Byfield and everyone's happy (excluding the resident querulous knobs and the insolent know-it-alls).

 

 

[marcaractac 3,963]

16 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

If OTT takes Drysdale then we take Stutzle or Byfield and everyone's happy (excluding the resident querulous knobs and the insolent know-it-alls).

 

 

I have little doubt LA takes Byfield. Kopitar is 32, after all. I think Stutzle will be NHL ready quicker than Rossi, but I feel Rossi has more potential based on his all around game. But hey, that's just my opinion. 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

10 minutes ago, marcaractac said:

I have little doubt LA takes Byfield. Kopitar is 32, after all. I think Stutzle will be NHL ready quicker than Rossi, but I feel Rossi has more potential based on his all around game. But hey, that's just my opinion. 

There are smart people who would agree with this. 

There are also smart people who think Stutzle, Raymond, and Perfetti are all better prospects than Rossi. 

[kipwinger 8,524]

There's a good chance Ottawa wants Drysdale considering they have no decent right shot defensemen on their team or in their system. But I'm not sure they'll take him at three considering it's pretty obvious that Detroit is going to take a forward. We're already all set on right side defensemen. I suspect Ottawa nabs Stutzle at 3 and Drysdale at 5.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

6 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

There's a good chance Ottawa wants Drysdale considering they have no decent right shot defensemen on their team or in their system. But I'm not sure they'll take him at three considering it's pretty obvious that Detroit is going to take a forward. We're already all set on right side defensemen. I suspect Ottawa nabs Stutzle at 3 and Drysdale at 5.

Unless Ottawa have Stutzle and Rossi rated closely. I don't think it's a guarantee that Detroit won't take Drysdale. You can never have too many RHD prospects. In which case, take Drysdale at 3 to be sure, and get whichever player you like that's left at 5. 

Edited August 19, 2020 by The 91 of Ryans

[kipwinger 8,524]

34 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Unless Ottawa have Stutzle and Rossi rated closely. I don't think it's a guarantee that Detroit won't take Drysdale. You can never have too many RHD prospects. In which case, take Drysdale at 3 to be sure, and get whichever player you like is left at 5. 

I didn't say anything was a "guarantee". I implied that it was likely Detroit picks a forward given our depth at right defense.