2019 Training Camp

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 hours ago, Dabura said:

I'd totally forgotten he played forward. Good call. Do you know when he made the switch? Was it last season?

6 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Not sure, nope. Definitely was longer than a year ago though. I think it might have been a few years ago.

Frk is exactly what came to mind when I initially asked the question though. Although, I still think Frk was a useful player in a similar, limited role.

I'm not saying I'd necessarily make the switch, but I think it would definitely be worth experimenting with...

If I recall correctly Kaski grew up playing forward, then at WMU Andy Murray moved him to defense (when Kaskii was like 20) to use his shot from the point. So Kaski has been playing D for like 4 years now.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

52 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

If I recall correctly Kaski grew up playing forward, then at WMU Andy Murray moved him to defense (when Kaskii was like 20) to use his shot from the point. So Kaski has been playing D for like 4 years now.

Good memory

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

16 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Good memory

I'm like 77% sure it was under Andy Murray

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

If I recall correctly Kaski grew up playing forward, then at WMU Andy Murray moved him to defense (when Kaskii was like 20) to use his shot from the point. So Kaski has been playing D for like 4 years now.

Thanks! That's around when I thought it was as well. Either way, I'd be interested to see what he'd look like as a forward on this team. Maybe he could be a dangerous middle six right-handed sniper. That to me would be more valuable than a bottom pairing defenseman that struggles in his own end...

[kipwinger 8,498]

Big fan of the fact that both Blashill and Yzerman see Rasmussen as a center long term.   Gives me a lot more confidence in our depth at that position.   He's a unique player because he can essentially to slotted in as a "shutdown center" but because of his powerplay ability he's still gonna score 20 goals a season.  

And even without him on the wing we have Mantha,  Bert,  AA,  Zadina, Berggren, Mastrosimone,  Svech, Grewe, and Hirose as options for top 9 wingers. 

Allows for a lot more versatility in next year's draft too.   

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

56 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Big fan of the fact that both Blashill and Yzerman see Rasmussen as a center long term.   Gives me a lot more confidence in our depth at that position.   He's a unique player because he can essentially to slotted in as a "shutdown center" but because of his powerplay ability he's still gonna score 20 goals a season.  

And even without him on the wing we have Mantha,  Bert,  AA,  Zadina, Berggren, Mastrosimone,  Svech, Grewe, and Hirose as options for top 9 wingers. 

Allows for a lot more versatility in next year's draft too.   

Having a huge physical center with offensive upside feels like sucha weird thing to have these days, but by god what a flex option down the middle.

Veleno at 1C and Ras at 2C in GR this season should be a pleasure to watch.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I still see Rasmussen better suited on the wing long term, but no harm in experimenting with him down the middle. I'd love to be wrong, but I'm not sure he has the foot speed to be an effective center at the NHL level.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I still see Rasmussen better suited on the wing long term, but no harm in experimenting with him down the middle. I'd love to be wrong, but I'm not sure he has the foot speed to be an effective center at the NHL level.

Hey if Brian Boyle can do it

[kipwinger 8,498]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I still see Rasmussen better suited on the wing long term, but no harm in experimenting with him down the middle. I'd love to be wrong, but I'm not sure he has the foot speed to be an effective center at the NHL level.

Speed is generally a more valuable asset to a winger than a center in most NHL systems.   For instance,  look how much more AA uses his speed as a winger.  Very few centers consistently get breakaways,  wingers do pretty regularly.   AA certainly had more breakaway goals off the wing.  Look at some of the better Wings centers just in recent memory.   None of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Glendening,  or Nielsen are especially fast.  Filppula is probably the best skating center we have had in the modern era until Larkin came along.  And that's just our team.   None of Toews,  Getzlaf, Spezza,  Malkin,  Tavares, Thornton, Johansen,  or Pavelski seem to have suffered as a result of not being especially fast skaters.   

And all of that is a little beside the point because Rasmussen is actually a pretty good skater,  especially for his size.  I think his skating is probably roughly as good as a many of the non Wings mentioned above.  Hardly a liability.   

Edited September 16, 2019 by kipwinger

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Went one more day to camp. Glad I did. Much less crowded. Better looks at the players.

1. Seider seems about where Cholowski is in his development IMO. His back skating was very choppy, not very fluid when he was being rushed. Other than that I didnt notice any issues with his play. Definitely belonged with the big boys.

2. Hicketts is a munchkin. I'm 6-2 and I could literally rest my chin on top of his head.

3. Daley looked good in practice. He gets way too much negativity from fans. He's still sound.

4. I dont think Saarajarvi is going to make it to the NHL.

5. I'm on the fence with Lindstrom. I wouldnt be surprised if he pans out or if he doesn't. Same with Kaski.

6. Zadina didn't excel, but didn't look out of place either. He will be an NHL regular, but maybe not the goal scoring machine we were hoping for.

7. Moose looked more poised to me. Probably still going to start in GR.

8. Svech should be on the roster in a bottom 6 role IMO.

9. Not really impressed with Nemeth. I would put him with DK and E. Green and Daley looked better IMO.

10. Didnt notice Erne.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

48 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Went one more day to camp. Glad I did. Much less crowded. Better looks at the players.

1. Seider seems about where Cholowski is in his development IMO. His back skating was very choppy, not very fluid when he was being rushed. Other than that I didnt notice any issues with his play. Definitely belonged with the big boys.

2. Hicketts is a munchkin. I'm 6-2 and I could literally rest my chin on top of his head.

3. Daley looked good in practice. He gets way too much negativity from fans. He's still sound.

4. I dont think Saarajarvi is going to make it to the NHL.

5. I'm on the fence with Lindstrom. I wouldnt be surprised if he pans out or if he doesn't. Same with Kaski.

6. Zadina didn't excel, but didn't look out of place either. He will be an NHL regular, but maybe not the goal scoring machine we were hoping for.

7. Moose looked more poised to me. Probably still going to start in GR.

8. Svech should be on the roster in a bottom 6 role IMO.

9. Not really impressed with Nemeth. I would put him with DK and E. Green and Daley looked better IMO.

10. Didnt notice Erne.

Thanks

Obviouskey don't think Yzerman signed Fil or Nemeth to win. It's an organized tank with kid protection.

Edited September 17, 2019 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Daley looked good in practice. He gets way too much negativity from fans. He's still sound.

There was plenty of justification for any negativity directed at Daley over the past year or so. He (and Ericsson) was one of the worst defensemen in the entire league last season according to most advanced stats.

7 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I dont think Saarajarvi is going to make it to the NHL.

Me neither. Was he even at camp this year? I didn't notice him at all, and he didn't play in the Red & White game. Was he injured?

8 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I'm on the fence with Lindstrom. I wouldnt be surprised if he pans out or if he doesn't. Same with Kaski.

Same. I don't think either will be anything more than bottom pairing defensemen, if that, at the NHL level. I still think we should try moving Kaski back to forward to see what he can do...

[krsmith17 7,191]

11 hours ago, kipwinger said:

Speed is generally a more valuable asset to a winger than a center in most NHL systems.   For instance,  look how much more AA uses his speed as a winger.  Very few centers consistently get breakaways,  wingers do pretty regularly.   AA certainly had more breakaway goals off the wing.  Look at some of the better Wings centers just in recent memory.   None of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Glendening,  or Nielsen are especially fast.  Filppula is probably the best skating center we have had in the modern era until Larkin came along.  And that's just our team.   None of Toews,  Getzlaf, Spezza,  Malkin,  Tavares, Thornton, Johansen,  or Pavelski seem to have suffered as a result of not being especially fast skaters.   

And all of that is a little beside the point because Rasmussen is actually a pretty good skater,  especially for his size.  I think his skating is probably roughly as good as a many of the non Wings mentioned above.  Hardly a liability.   

I disagree with the bold. Centers generally need to cover a lot more ice than wingers, and for that reason, I think your best skaters should be down the middle. Sure, it's great to have that breakaway speed on the wing, but it's more important to me that a winger do all the things that Rasmussen excels at. In the offensive zone, he's great in front of the net and in the corners, winning puck / board battles. In the defensive zone, he has that huge wing span to block passing lanes to the point men.

I'm still hoping Rasmussen can become an effective top six forward. I see Larkin and Veleno as locks to be our top two centers, so the only spot available in the top six, is on the wing. If Rasmussen can prove to be a *more* effective center than winger, I guess having him as our 3C would be okay, but for me, I just think he's better suited as a winger.

[kipwinger 8,498]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I disagree with the bold. Centers generally need to cover a lot more ice than wingers, and for that reason, I think your best skaters should be down the middle. Sure, it's great to have that breakaway speed on the wing, but it's more important to me that a winger do all the things that Rasmussen excels at. In the offensive zone, he's great in front of the net and in the corners, winning puck / board battles. In the defensive zone, he has that huge wing span to block passing lanes to the point men.

I'm still hoping Rasmussen can become an effective top six forward. I see Larkin and Veleno as locks to be our top two centers, so the only spot available in the top six, is on the wing. If Rasmussen can prove to be a *more* effective center than winger, I guess having him as our 3C would be okay, but for me, I just think he's better suited as a winger.

Off this were true you wouldn't hear NHL coaches constantly talking about how young centers need to "slow the game down". Often their speed is greater than their ability to process how the play is developing.   

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Off this were true you wouldn't hear NHL coaches constantly talking about how young centers need to "slow the game down". Often their speed is greater than their ability to process how the play is developing.   

I think you're taking that way too literally... Coaches saying that players (in general, not just centers) need to slow the game down, meaning that they need to slow it down mentally, not physically... The game is played at such a high pace today, that it is often difficult for young players to make timely decisions with and without the puck. Coaches want their players to be able to think the game at the pace it's played. Do you really think a not-so-great skating center is a benefit because he's a slower skater and can therefore "slow the game down"?...

Maybe if McDavid, MacKinnon, Duchene, Larkin, etc. weren't so fast they would be more effective centers...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Speed and Ras's skating aside

Centers have to cover more ice in the D zone. Big players by their very nature cover more ice. Chara doesn't need to be fast because he can touch one half board with his stick and then in like two strides touch the opposite half board with his stick.

At the very least I think playing Ras at center is like adding another Ericsson to your defensive scheme. Big pylon who can guard the front of the net.

Edited September 17, 2019 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[krsmith17 7,191]

6 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Speed and Ras's skating aside

Centers have to cover more ice in the D zone. Big players by their very nature cover more ice. Chara doesn't need to be fast because he can touch one half board with his stick and then in like two strides touch the opposite half board with his stick.

At the very least I think playing Ras at center is like adding another Ericsson to your defensive scheme. Big pylon who can guard the front of the net.

Wingers typically spend more time in the corners / along the boards, digging for pucks, and playing net front in the offensive zone as well. All things Big Ras excels at. Like I said though, I'm not opposed to trying Rasmussen out at center, and maybe he would end up being a better center than winger, but as of now, I don't see it... We'll see.

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Wingers typically spend more time in the corners / along the boards, digging for pucks, and playing net front in the offensive zone as well. All things Big Ras excels at. Like I said though, I'm not opposed to trying Rasmussen out at center, and maybe he would end up being a better center than winger, but as of now, I don't see it... We'll see.

Of course, this is all IMPOSSIBLE.  No way players can play center AND winger.  I learned that from kip.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

5 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Me neither. Was he even at camp this year? I didn't notice him at all, and he didn't play in the Red & White game. Was he injured?

Yeah. He was there. I don't think he was injured, he participated in full on drills/scrimmage on Saturday and Monday.

I say I don't think he makes the NHL because after seeing him at camp the last 3 years, I havent seen enough improvement in that time to think he makes it.

He is at least behind Green, Hronek, Seider, Bowey, Lindstrom, and Kaski down the right side.

Speaking of Bowey, I don't see how he's playing in the NHL. Had I not known he was already on the roster, I would have thought he was a camp invite. I actually would prefer Seider or Kaski over him.

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Yeah. He was there. I don't think he was injured, he participated in full on drills/scrimmage on Saturday and Monday.

I say I don't think he makes the NHL because after seeing him at camp the last 3 years, I havent seen enough improvement in that time to think he makes it.

He is at least behind Green, Hronek, Seider, Bowey, Lindstrom, and Kaski down the right side.

Speaking of Bowey, I don't see how he's playing in the NHL. Had I not known he was already on the roster, I would have thought he was a camp invite. I actually would prefer Seider or Kaski over him.

I agree on Saarijarvi based on what I seen of him in Grand Rapids. I wouldn't put too much stock into camp alone though. Let's see how they perform in real game situations. I still think Bowey is a solid bottom pairing defenseman. Seider is / will be better, but he may need some time in GR. Same for Kaski. Bowey is a good placeholder (at worst) for the time being.

[kipwinger 8,498]

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Wingers typically spend more time in the corners / along the boards, digging for pucks, and playing net front in the offensive zone as well. All things Big Ras excels at. Like I said though, I'm not opposed to trying Rasmussen out at center, and maybe he would end up being a better center than winger, but as of now, I don't see it... We'll see.

Ok,  ill accept your premise for a second.    But if Rasmussen's skill set is so obviously conducive to playing on the wing, why do you think both Yzerman and Blashill see Rasmussen as a center? 

[Dabura 12,206]

3 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Speed and Ras's skating aside

Centers have to cover more ice in the D zone. Big players by their very nature cover more ice. Chara doesn't need to be fast because he can touch one half board with his stick and then in like two strides touch the opposite half board with his stick.

At the very least I think playing Ras at center is like adding another Ericsson to your defensive scheme. Big pylon who can guard the front of the net.

My hope has always been that he becomes something like Martin Hanzal and Sean Couturier, i.e. a really solid two-way top-six centerman.

It's very possible the powerhouse 1-2-3 center punch we're hoping this rebuild produces never actually materializes, in which case I guess I'd hope our top three centermen are excellent two-way players, any one of whom can be hard matched against top talent in a shutdown role. It's early days and this is nothing more than blue-skying, but, *in theory*, Larkin-Veleno-Rasmussen could be that kind of group for us. And maybe Pearson at 4C rounds out that group. *In theory*, that group could be a pain in the ass to play against. Low-scoring, tight-checking hockey. Throw in one of the high-end two-way centermen from the 2020 draft class (Byfield, Lundell, Lapierre) and that probably gives Yzerman a workable foundation for a new Red Wings identity and he can then start molding the team accordingly.

[F.Michael 4,590]

13 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Ok,  ill accept your premise for a second.    But if Rasmussen's skill set is so obviously conducive to playing on the wing, why do you think both Yzerman and Blashill see Rasmussen as a center? 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

8 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Suddenly I want to trade Ras and Green for a power-forward LW

[krsmith17 7,191]

41 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Ok,  ill accept your premise for a second.    But if Rasmussen's skill set is so obviously conducive to playing on the wing, why do you think both Yzerman and Blashill see Rasmussen as a center? 

What do you expect them to say? "There's no way Michael Rasmussen has what it takes to be an NHL center"? Of course not. He was drafted as a center, they'd be dumb not to at least try him there. That doesn't mean it will work out though... I personally see him better suited on the wing, but if he becomes a legit shutdown 3C I guess it won't be the worst thing...