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9/20 -Preseason game 3 vs Islanders

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Just watched the replay of the Erne dodge/hipcheck on Matt Martin. Brassard reaches out from the bench and pokes Erne with his stick after the check very blatantly. Is that kosher? I thought no?

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Veleno, hirose both looked good. Along with seider. Zadina didn’t look bad but he didn’t stand out as much as them. He stood out more in the first period. Kaski and hicketts both need ahl time and svechnikov as well. Disappointed because zadina is good enough to make the team but might miss out due to nielsen and helm.

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Zadina wasn’t a dud, just meh but didn’t play bad at all

 

From the reddit post game thread lol

Zadina coping is gonna be a thing for the next few years. Brace yourselves.

Seider is already a top 5 player on this team. I think Yzerman will do what Holland maybe feared to do, and he's gonna play this kid out of camp. I'm watching these interviews with him and he's already talking about what dudes on the team have boats and how he can go fishing with them. We should be targeting players who love to fish, Michigan is like grade A in the fishing department. Anyone remember those pics of Datsyuk? Even Hakan Andersson is a fishing guide.

Edited by ChristopherReevesLegs

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1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Just watched the replay of the Erne dodge/hipcheck on Matt Martin. Brassard reaches out from the bench and pokes Erne with his stick after the check very blatantly. Is that kosher? I thought no?

 

From the reddit post game thread lol

Zadina coping is gonna be a thing for the next few years. Brace yourselves.

Seider is already a top 5 player on this team. I think Yzerman will do what Holland maybe feared to do, and he's gonna play this kid out of camp. I'm watching these interviews with him and he's already talking about what dudes on the team have boats and how he can go fishing with them. We should be targeting players who love to fish, Michigan is like grade A in the fishing department. Anyone remember those pics of Datsyuk? Even Hakan Andersson is a fishing guide.

Imo, Zadina, Veleno, and Seider all need to stay up.  Yzerman should have worked out the departures of Ericsson, Helm, and Nielsen by now.  These guys are NOT what you'd call lockerrom presence guys.  They are dead weight.  Im a little dosappointed to see that Stevie isnt cleaning house at a quicker pace.

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1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Imo, Zadina, Veleno, and Seider all need to stay up.  Yzerman should have worked out the departures of Ericsson, Helm, and Nielsen by now.  These guys are NOT what you'd call lockerrom presence guys.  They are dead weight.  Im a little dosappointed to see that Stevie isnt cleaning house at a quicker pace.

waivers. we don't need the cap relief this season. waive them all. won't happen, but it'd be nice.

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2 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Imo, Zadina, Veleno, and Seider all need to stay up.  Yzerman should have worked out the departures of Ericsson, Helm, and Nielsen by now.  These guys are NOT what you'd call lockerrom presence guys.  They are dead weight.  Im a little dosappointed to see that Stevie isnt cleaning house at a quicker pace.

As well as Filppula, Abdelkader, Glendening, Green, Daley and Bernier for Rasmussen, Svechnikov, Turgeon, Pearson, Cholowski, Bowey and Larsson...

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha

Athanasiou - Veleno - Zadina

Hirose - Rasmussen - Svechnikov

Turgeon - Pearson - Erne

Glendening / Kuffner

DeKeyser - Hronek

Nemeth - Seider

Cholowski - Bowey

Hicketts

Larsson

Howards

...

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4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

As well as Filppula, Abdelkader, Glendening, Green, Daley and Bernier for Rasmussen, Svechnikov, Turgeon, Pearson, Cholowski, Bowey and Larsson...

Bertuzzi - Larkin - Mantha

Athanasiou - Veleno - Zadina

Hirose - Rasmussen - Svechnikov

Turgeon - Pearson - Erne

Glendening / Kuffner

DeKeyser - Hronek

Nemeth - Seider

Cholowski - Bowey

Hicketts

Larsson

Howards

...

Now put in McIssac and another stud forward and we got ourselves a team, folks!

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11 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Yzerman should have worked out the departures of Ericsson, Helm, and Nielsen by now.  These guys are NOT what you'd call lockerrom presence guys.

Proof?

Development should be the focus right now. If that means some of these kids are better off in GR for now, then so be it. No need to win right now. Even if there are prospects in the system who are better than some of the roster players, if the kids are better served playing in GR, then that's where they should play.

Its not unusual for kids who are at an NHL level to play in the AHL even if they are actually better than some of the depth guys on the roster. 

We would all prefer to see these kids in Wings sweaters ASAP, but if someone like Seider is better off munching minutes in GR, than that's where he should be, even if he's better than someone like Bowey.

Getting rid of guys like Helm, Abby, E, Daley, etc doesn't mean those kids would get their roster spots anyway.

The kids aren't in the minors because of a lack of roster spots for them. If that was the case there would have been no reason to sign Flip or Nemeth. If any kids start in GR, its because the coaches and GM think its better for their development at this point, dropping the "dead weight" doesnt change that.

Edited by Neomaxizoomdweebie

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14 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Zadina coping is gonna be a thing for the next few years. Brace yourselves.

Seider is already a top 5 player on this team. I think Yzerman will do what Holland maybe feared to do, and he's gonna play this kid out of camp. I'm watching these interviews with him and he's already talking about what dudes on the team have boats and how he can go fishing with them. We should be targeting players who love to fish, Michigan is like grade A in the fishing department. Anyone remember those pics of Datsyuk? Even Hakan Andersson is a fishing guide.

I'm 100% willing to eat crow on Zadina if it comes to that. In the here and now, I think Zadina looks like a good prospect who's fairly close to putting it all together but not close enough that he should make the team out of camp if everyone's healthy. He's probably going to need another full season on the farm. Disappointing, but it is what it is.

Seider has looked solid. As Blashill pointed out in his presser, Seider did make a number of mistakes last night. Personally, I want to see him in a few more games against NHLish lineups before I jump on the "Seider needs to be on the opening night roster" train. Ultimately, I think the big takeaway is that it doesn't even really matter where he starts this season; it looks like he's going to be a very good NHL defenseman and it looks like we won't have to wait as long as we might've feared (i.e. he's not really "a project").

4 hours ago, kipwinger said:

I'm a little annoyed that bum Hronek only had 5 shots on goal tonight. What a b*tch!

Loved his goal though.  That's the future of the Wings right there. Rasmussen winning a key faceoff and Hronek putting a laser on net. 

I liked everything about that sequence.

But, yeah, Hronek is a stud. If we can get our power play straightened out (and a lot of that is on Hronek, to be fair), he's going to pile up points.

Edited by Dabura

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40 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Proof?

Development should be the focus right now. If that means some of these kids are better off in GR for now, then so be it. No need to win right now. Even if there are prospects in the system who are better than some of the roster players, if the kids are better served playing in GR, then that's where they should play.

Its not unusual for kids who are at an NHL level to play in the AHL even if they are actually better than some of the depth guys on the roster. 

We would all prefer to see these kids in Wings sweaters ASAP, but if someone like Seider is better off munching minutes in GR, than that's where he should be, even if he's better than someone like Bowey.

Getting rid of guys like Helm, Abby, E, Daley, etc doesn't mean those kids would get their roster spots anyway.

The kids aren't in the minors because of a lack of roster spots for them. If that was the case there would have been no reason to sign Flip or Nemeth. If any kids start in GR, its because the coaches and GM think its better for their development at this point, dropping the "dead weight" doesnt change that.

I'm assuming Jonas is trolling. But I mostly agee with you. While I do feel like sometimes the Wings are a little too elderly-friendly and I do hope all of the kids make the opening night roster, it's hard for me to look at any one of these kids and say, "I see a very clear opening for this player on our roster and I believe that's where he *NEEDS* to be right now and I believe he's proven that he's 1) ready for it and 2) better than all the other viable options." I like the idea of Seider playing on our second pairing, but I dunno that that's what's best for Seider or the team right now. And if he's not playing in the top four, he should be playing in the AHL, where he can be deployed in all situations and log tons of minutes. Same thing with Zadina and Veleno. Is Veleno ready to play on Filppula's/Nielsen's wing? Perhaps. Could he be an upgrade over Glendening/de la Rose in the 4C role right now? Perhaps. Would he be better off being a top-six centerman for the Griffins for 85% of this season? Perhaps.

We thought Cholowski was ready last fall. Turned out he wasn't. We thought Rasmussen was ready last fall. Turned out he wasn't. We all love Hronek now, but he didn't start looking and performing like a legit NHL player until late last season, after he'd been demoted to the AHL with some homework assignments and called back up to prove that he was finally ready to take the next step. Of course, on the other side of the coin, there's a case like 2015 training camp Larkin. We thought he was ready at that time and he was. (Albeit as one of Zetterberg's wingers. Nice work if you can get it.)

We'll see. Still got six games left.

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13 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I'm assuming Jonas is trolling. But I mostly agee with you. While I do feel like sometimes the Wings are a little too elderly-friendly and I do hope all of the kids make the opening night roster, it's hard for me to look at any one of these kids and say, "I see a very clear opening for this player on our roster and I believe that's where he *NEEDS* to be right now and I believe he's proven that he's 1) ready for it and 2) better than all the other viable options." I like the idea of Seider playing on our second pairing, but I dunno that that's what's best for Seider or the team right now. And if he's not playing in the top four, he should be playing in the AHL, where he can be deployed in all situations and log tons of minutes. Same thing with Zadina and Veleno. Is Veleno ready to play on Filppula's/Nielsen's wing? Perhaps. Could he be an upgrade over Glendening/de la Rose in the 4C role right now? Perhaps. Would he be better off being a top-six centerman for the Griffins for 85% of this season? Perhaps.

We thought Cholowski was ready last fall. Turned out he wasn't. We thought Rasmussen was ready last fall. Turned out he wasn't. We all love Hronek now, but he didn't start looking and performing like a legit NHL player until late last season, after he'd been demoted to the AHL with some homework assignments and called back up to prove that he was finally ready to take the next step. Of course, on the other side of the coin, there's a case like 2015 training camp Larkin. We thought he was ready at that time and he was. (Albeit as one of Zetterberg's wingers. Nice work if you can get it.)

We'll see. Still got six games left.

Unless u move Hronek or Green to the left side, Seider would be on the 3rd pair. Would rather play him with Cholowski as the top pair in GR.

The Nemeth signing would have more to do with a kid not getting a spot than either of Daley or Green. They were already here, and Kronners retirement should have opened the door for Cholowski. Bringing in Nemeth after the acquisition of Kaski and then the drafting of Seider was a head scratcher for me.

As for F, I don't see an issue here. I expect Moose and Svech to make the roster. Zadina and Veleno in GR logging top minutes makes more sense to me than playing behind Bert, Larkin, Mantha, AA, Hirose, Flip, Moose, and Nielsen on the big roster. Are any of Kuffner, Ehn, or Turgeon better than Helm, Abby, Glendening, or Nielsen? I dont think so. So would getting rid of them improve the team now or in the future?

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40 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I'm assuming Jonas is trolling. But I mostly agee with you. While I do feel like sometimes the Wings are a little too elderly-friendly and I do hope all of the kids make the opening night roster, it's hard for me to look at any one of these kids and say, "I see a very clear opening for this player on our roster and I believe that's where he *NEEDS* to be right now and I believe he's proven that he's 1) ready for it and 2) better than all the other viable options." I like the idea of Seider playing on our second pairing, but I dunno that that's what's best for Seider or the team right now. And if he's not playing in the top four, he should be playing in the AHL, where he can be deployed in all situations and log tons of minutes. Same thing with Zadina and Veleno. Is Veleno ready to play on Filppula's/Nielsen's wing? Perhaps. Could he be an upgrade over Glendening/de la Rose in the 4C role right now? Perhaps. Would he be better off being a top-six centerman for the Griffins for 85% of this season? Perhaps.

We thought Cholowski was ready last fall. Turned out he wasn't. We thought Rasmussen was ready last fall. Turned out he wasn't. We all love Hronek now, but he didn't start looking and performing like a legit NHL player until late last season, after he'd been demoted to the AHL with some homework assignments and called back up to prove that he was finally ready to take the next step. Of course, on the other side of the coin, there's a case like 2015 training camp Larkin. We thought he was ready at that time and he was. (Albeit as one of Zetterberg's wingers. Nice work if you can get it.)

We'll see. Still got six games left.

Im not trolling.  The 1st rnd picks should play.  Ras, Zadina, Veleno, Seider.  These guys were drafted in the 1st rnd.  Svech too, but he might need a little ramp up back off his injury.  What good does it do to have high first rnders if they play in the AHL?  All 5 of them have enough size already.

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42 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Unless u move Hronek or Green to the left side, Seider would be on the 3rd pair. Would rather play him with Cholowski as the top pair in GR.

I feel Seider's played well enough so far that you can't totally rule anything out yet (aside from him playing on our third pairing, which would be dumb). Maybe DeKeyser-Seider could be a thing. Maybe Seider-Green could be a thing. Just sayin'. Logic and historical precedent suggest Seider will be a Griffin this season, but on the other hand our D corps is thin enough and he's performing well enough that we might actually see an 18-year-old defenseman play his way onto the big club straight out of his first training camp.

42 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

The Nemeth signing would have more to do with a kid not getting a spot than either of Daley or Green. They were already here, and Kronners retirement should have opened the door for Cholowski. Bringing in Nemeth after the acquisition of Kaski and then the drafting of Seider was a head scratcher for me.

Cholowski clearly wasn't ready tho and I vaguely recall reading that Yzerman told him he wanted him to work on his defensive game.

Nemeth gives us a veteran shutdown guy beyond just DeKeyser and soon-to-be-done Ericsson and Kaski is a no-risk, high-reward investment. With Kronwall retiring and all four of Daley, Green, Ericsson, Bowey on expiring contracts, the potential for massive turnover is very real, so it makes sense that we'd have a number of irons in the fire.

42 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

As for F, I don't see an issue here. I expect Moose and Svech to make the roster. Zadina and Veleno in GR logging top minutes makes more sense to me than playing behind Bert, Larkin, Mantha, AA, Hirose, Flip, Moose, and Nielsen on the big roster. Are any of Kuffner, Ehn, or Turgeon better than Helm, Abby, Glendening, or Nielsen? I dont think so. So would getting rid of them improve the team now or in the future?

Maybe I'm misreading you but I'm getting the sense that you think I'm disagreeing with you about something. I'm in agreement with your general point. I was just kind of expanding on what you were saying, which is that it's nice to want all the top prospects on the team but it's also unrealistic.

I'll disagree with you on Rasmussen and Svechnikov tho. Blashill and Yzerman want Rasmussen playing center at this stage of his development and all the local media writers have taken that to mean he's almost definitely headed to Grand Rapids. Physically, he's still getting pushed around all over the ice. That alone is probably enough to doom his roster push.

Svechnikov, IMO, hasn't looked especially good in these preseason games and I figure he'll need some time to get back into the swing of things after having missed all of last year. The fact that he doesn't have to pass through waivers if the Wings do decide to send him down probably seals his fate.

It seems we're looking at one or *maaaaaaybe* two forward spots being in play, and I'm not expecting Zadina and/or Veleno to claim it/them. But I'm not prepared to count them out just yet.

Edited by Dabura

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38 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Maybe I'm misreading you but I'm getting the sense that you think I'm disagreeing with you about something. I'm in agreement with your general point. I was just kind of expanding on what you were saying, which is that it's nice to want all the top prospects on the team but it's also unrealistic.

I'll disagree with you on Rasmussen and Svechnikov tho. Blashill and Yzerman want Rasmussen playing center at this stage of his development and all the local media writers have taken that to mean he's almost definitely headed to Grand Rapids. Physically, he's still getting pushed around all over the ice. That alone is probably enough to doom his roster push.

Svechnikov, IMO, hasn't looked especially good in these preseason games and I figure he'll need some time to get back into the swing of things after having missed all of last year. The fact that he doesn't have to pass through waivers if the Wings do decide to send him down probably seals his fate.

It seems we're looking at one or *maaaaaaybe* two forward spots being in play, and I'm not expecting Zadina and/or Veleno to claim it/them. But I'm not prepared to count them out just yet.

Nope. No misunderstanding. Just voicing my opinion to a sympathetic ear.

Edited by Neomaxizoomdweebie

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59 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Im not trolling.  The 1st rnd picks should play.  Ras, Zadina, Veleno, Seider.  These guys were drafted in the 1st rnd.  Svech too, but he might need a little ramp up back off his injury.  What good does it do to have high first rnders if they play in the AHL?  All 5 of them have enough size already.

Agreed on Ras and Svech. Zadina and Veleno are not yet good enough to get top 6 minutes in Detroit. Until they are, they'll be better developed in GR. Seider is probably good enough to make the Wings, but not 20 minutes a game good. Put him on the top pair in GR until Daley and or Green get traded at the TDL. He should be ripe by then.

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1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Im not trolling.  The 1st rnd picks should play.  Ras, Zadina, Veleno, Seider.  These guys were drafted in the 1st rnd.  Svech too, but he might need a little ramp up back off his injury.  What good does it do to have high first rnders if they play in the AHL?  All 5 of them have enough size already.

Rasmussen struggled mightily last season. A lot of that was a physical thing; he's used to being much bigger and much stronger than his opponents and not having to battle hard for time and space and possession, let alone against NHLers. Based on what I'm seeing in preseason, he's still struggling on that front, still getting outmuscled all over the ice. On top of that, Blashill and Yzerman have come out and said they see him as -- or rather, would ideally like him to become -- a shutdown centerman, and to that end they want him playing center this season. Rasmussen isn't going to displace Larkin as our 1C (not yet anyway) and I honestly don't have any confidence that he'd be an upgrade over Filppula or Nielsen. Maybe he'd be an upgrade over Glendening/de la Rose, but he's not going to get a whole lot of ice time as our 4C and he really needs to be playing big minutes. If he's a Griffin, he's likely the 1C, which means tons of minutes.

Zadina looks to me like a player who did very little work over the summer and is at least half a season away from being ready for prime time. I hate to say that, but it's my honest assessment. Blashill said he talked to Yzerman about Zadina and they feel he's trying to do too much by himself (something Blashill mentioned last season as well) and that he needs to work on his give-and-go game. That's not really something you say about a player who's ready to win tough matchups every night in the NHL. It's something you say about a prospect who's trying to put it all together and take the next step. Zadina's playing frustrated, nervy, largely unproductive hockey. If nothing else, hold him back because you don't want to burn an ELC year when the kid hasn't even scored a single goal through an entire prospect tournament and multiple preseason games.

The thing Zadina has going for him is our lack of natural goal-scorers. Top line is set and it's a good one. Second line will be Athanasiou, Filppula/Nielsen, and probably Hirose, who's looking really good right now. Bottom six is shaping up to be an offensive black hole. Do you put Zadina in there? I can think of good arguments for it and good arguments against it. In all likelihood, he'll be starting in Grand Rapids. IMO, that would be the right call.

Veleno's an interesting case. I figure they want him playing center this season and I figure he's in pretty much the same boat as Rasmussen on that front. At the same time, if he'd be the 2C in Grand Rapids and our bottom six is sorely lacking some scoring punch, maybe you feel his skating and two-way play would be a good fit on our third line as a winger or maybe even the centerman. Hell, maybe you give him the 4C job and try to roll four lines. Personally, I dunno. I think he's making a pretty good case for himself but not so good that he's embarrassing the veterans whose jobs he's trying to take by force. In all honesty, I'm not sure there's much of a difference between Helm and Veleno right now. In a year or two? Sure. Right now? I dunno. Ask me again at the end of training camp.

Last but not least: Seider. He's been impressive. I feel he's threatening to go from a nice feel-good story to an actual legit job-stealer. But, to me, he's not quite there yet. If I look at our projected top four (DeKeyser-Hronek, Nemeth-Green), I don't see Seider as an obvious upgrade to that group. More importantly, there's the development side of it. Even if he makes the lineup, is he getting juicy power play minutes? Is he on the first PK unit? Is he going up against the other team's top talent every night? If he's in Grand Rapids, the answer to those questions is very likely yes. If he's in Detroit, the answer is very likely no. Which isn't to say being the #1 or #2 defenseman in Grand Rapids is necessarily better for him than being the #3 or #4 defenseman in Detroit. If Seider plays himself into the discussion for a second-pairing role on the Wings' blue line, it's gonna be a tough call.

tl;dr the kids are good and the future looks bright but it's not clear that any one of them is truly ready to play really meaningful minutes in the NHL -- and even if one of them is ready, maybe that's not actually what's best for his development

39 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Nope. No misunderstanding. Just voicing my opinion to a sympathetic ear.

giphy.webp

Edited by Dabura

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I know we were all thinking at this tme last year that 2019-20 would be the start of the turnaround. Unfortunately, it's looking like we're in much the same position right now. We've seen Larkin, Mantha, Bertuzzi, and Athanasiou take over, which is great, but it's safe to say it'll be at least one more year before the team is overflowing with really good young players who are legitimate impact players at the NHL level.

The good news is that these kids we're talking about appear to be pretty close and it's entirely possible that our first pick in the 2020 draft is going to fetch us a player so good that he immediately becomes our top prospect. What we have in the system right now will not be enough, and Yzerman has straight-up said as much. So, in that sense, it doesn't really matter who does or doesn't make the team out of camp this season.

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15 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Imo, Zadina, Veleno, and Seider all need to stay up.  Yzerman should have worked out the departures of Ericsson, Helm, and Nielsen by now.  These guys are NOT what you'd call lockerrom presence guys.  They are dead weight.  Im a little dosappointed to see that Stevie isnt cleaning house at a quicker pace.

Zadina isn't ready... that giveaway on the Islanders 2nd goal was bad, real bad  like what I've been talking about bad.

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1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Agreed on Ras and Svech. Zadina and Veleno are not yet good enough to get top 6 minutes in Detroit. Until they are, they'll be better developed in GR. Seider is probably good enough to make the Wings, but not 20 minutes a game good. Put him on the top pair in GR until Daley and or Green get traded at the TDL. He should be ripe by then.

I could deal with 3 of 5 up this year, and other 2 + 2020 1st next.

43 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Rasmussen struggled mightily last season. A lot of that was a physical thing; he's used to being much bigger and much stronger than his opponents and not having to battle hard for time and space and possession, let alone against NHLers. Based on what I'm seeing in preseason, he's still struggling on that front, still getting outmuscled all over the ice. On top of that, Blashill and Yzerman have come out and said they see him as -- or rather, would ideally like him to become -- a shutdown centerman, and to that end they want him playing center this season. Rasmussen isn't going to displace Larkin as our 1C (not yet anyway) and I honestly don't have any confidence that he'd be an upgrade over Filppula or Nielsen. Maybe he'd be an upgrade over Glendening/de la Rose, but he's not going to get a whole lot of ice time as our 4C and he really needs to be playing big minutes. If he's a Griffin, he's likely the 1C, which means tons of minutes.

Zadina looks to me like a player who did very little work over the summer and is at least half a season away from being ready for prime time. I hate to say that, but it's my honest assessment. Blashill said he talked to Yzerman about Zadina and they feel he's trying to do too much by himself (something Blashill mentioned last season as well) and that he needs to work on his give-and-go game. That's not really something you say about a player who's ready to win tough matchups every night in the NHL. It's something you say about a prospect who's trying to put it all together and take the next step. Zadina's playing frustrated, nervy, largely unproductive hockey. If nothing else, hold him back because you don't want to burn an ELC year when the kid hasn't even scored a single goal through an entire prospect tournament and multiple preseason games.

The thing Zadina has going for him is our lack of natural goal-scorers. Top line is set and it's a good one. Second line will be Athanasiou, Filppula/Nielsen, and probably Hirose, who's looking really good right now. Bottom six is shaping up to be an offensive black hole. Do you put Zadina in there? I can think of good arguments for it and good arguments against it. In all likelihood, he'll be starting in Grand Rapids. IMO, that would be the right call.

Veleno's an interesting case. I figure they want him playing center this season and I figure he's in pretty much the same boat as Rasmussen on that front. At the same time, if he'd be the 2C in Grand Rapids and our bottom six is sorely lacking some scoring punch, maybe you feel his skating and two-way play would be a good fit on our third line as a winger or maybe even the centerman. Hell, maybe you give him the 4C job and try to roll four lines. Personally, I dunno. I think he's making a pretty good case for himself but not so good that he's embarrassing the veterans whose jobs he's trying to take by force. In all honesty, I'm not sure there's much of a difference between Helm and Veleno right now. In a year or two? Sure. Right now? I dunno. Ask me again at the end of training camp.

Last but not least: Seider. He's been impressive. I feel he's threatening to go from a nice feel-good story to an actual legit job-stealer. But, to me, he's not quite there yet. If I look at our projected top four (DeKeyser-Hronek, Nemeth-Green), I don't see Seider as an obvious upgrade to that group. More importantly, there's the development side of it. Even if he makes the lineup, is he getting juicy power play minutes? Is he on the first PK unit? Is he going up against the other team's top talent every night? If he's in Grand Rapids, the answer to those questions is very likely yes. If he's in Detroit, the answer is very likely no. Which isn't to say being the #1 or #2 defenseman in Grand Rapids is necessarily better for him than being the #3 or #4 defenseman in Detroit. If Seider plays himself into the discussion for a second-pairing role on the Wings' blue line, it's gonna be a tough call.

tl;dr the kids are good and the future looks bright but it's not clear that any one of them is truly ready to play really meaningful minutes in the NHL -- and even if one of them is ready, maybe that's not actually what's best for his development

giphy.webp

Youre way off on Ras.  He manned up huge last year.  Most 19 year olds do not have enough moxy for half an nhl season.  He gutted all of it out on 3rd line.

5 minutes ago, mackel said:

Zadina isn't ready... that giveaway on the Islanders 2nd goal was bad, real bad  like what I've been talking about bad.

You almost finished?

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5 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I could deal with 3 of 5 up this year, and other 2 + 2020 1st next.

Youre way off on Ras.  He manned up huge last year.  Most 19 year olds do not have enough moxy for half an nhl season.  He gutted all of it out on 3rd line.

You almost finished?

Calm yourself... 

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27 minutes ago, mackel said:

Zadina isn't ready... that giveaway on the Islanders 2nd goal was bad, real bad  like what I've been talking about bad.

What you've been talking about is him cheating for offense all the time and being terrible defensively. What we've seen is him not cheating for offense and not being terrible defensively and Blashill consistently refusing to criticize any aspect of his defensive game because there really isn't much there to criticize. If I end up eating crow on Zadina, it'll be for @ChristopherReevesLegs, who's made some valid points about potential areas of concern with Zadina's game.

What's holding Zadina back right now, IMO, is that he's struggling to set up and steer multi-part plays in the o-zone. He's good at entering the o-zone with possession and he's decent enough at helping a perimeter cycle along from the half-wall, but he really has to work on finding high-percentage ways to turn those good entries and perimeter possession into sustained pressure and goals against NHL players. NHLers and their systems are much better at neutralizing his off-wing shots than I think he'd anticipated and it's going to take some more time for him to figure out how to work around that and become a player who can threaten in multiple ways. Working on give-and-gos will help and I think Blashill and Yzerman are correct in believing that's what he should be focusing on.

Finding someone with a pass, finding a soft spot in coverage to slip into -- this is stuff that's second nature to him as a CHL player but needs to be re-learned at the pro level.

Edited by Dabura

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27 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Youre way off on Ras.  He manned up huge last year.  Most 19 year olds do not have enough moxy for half an nhl season.  He gutted all of it out on 3rd line.

Nah, I've got no problem with his attitude or mentalty or anything like that. It's just the simple fact that he continues to get pushed around and pushed down and tripped up over his own two feet. Doesn't seem to be much of an issue when he's hanging around the goalie's kitchen, which is good, but everywhere else he still looks like he isn't able to consistently win those battles that we need him to consistently win. He's put on some muscle, but I'm not sure sheer strength is even the issue. I think it's just learning the ropes of physical play against opponents who are fully capable of knocking you on your ass, as opposed to scrawny teenagers who are incapable of truly testing your physical mettle. Mantha faced a similar learning curve in that department. A lot of really big kids do.

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39 minutes ago, Dabura said:

What you've been talking about is him cheating for offense all the time and being terrible defensively. What we've seen is him not cheating for offense and not being terrible defensively and Blashill consistently refusing to criticize any aspect of his defensive game because there really isn't much there to criticize. If I end up eating crow on Zadina, it'll be for @ChristopherReevesLegs, who's made some valid points about potential areas of concern with Zadina's game.

What's holding Zadina back right now, IMO, is that he's struggling to set up and steer multi-part plays in the o-zone. He's good at entering the o-zone with possession and he's decent enough at helping a perimeter cycle along from the half-wall, but he really has to work on finding high-percentage ways to turn those good entries and perimeter possession into sustained pressure and goals against NHL players. NHLers and their systems are much better at neutralizing his off-wing shots than I think he'd anticipated and it's going to take some more time for him to figure out how to work around that and become a player who can threaten in multiple ways. Working on give-and-gos will help and I think Blashill and Yzerman are correct in believing that's what he should be focusing on.

Finding someone with a pass, finding a soft spot in coverage to slip into -- this is stuff that's second nature to him as a CHL player but needs to be re-learned at the pro level.

@Dabura I would be shocked if we ever see blash criticize his defensive game... it's pretty clear Zadina is struggling, he's a supposed scorer, who isn't scoring and he is average at generating chances for himself or others and he's lost defensively.  Go back and look at how.the Isles scored.that 2nd goal.  Zadina gave the puck away in the O-zone and failed to make a play in the N and D-zones.

I think the organization realizes if the coach calls him out it might destroy what's left of that cocksure attitude he had on draft day.  In short I think the lack of criticism isn't because it's not deserved, but it may just break him.

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