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General Rebuild Discussion Thread

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9 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Lucic (a problem) traded for Neal (another problem)

Sure the contracts moved, but all they did was swap one problem for another (I realize Neal has done well since). We could swap Nielsen for Loui Eriksson or Bobby Ryan or something, but we'd just be swapping one overpaid bad player for another overpaid bad player and hoping Eriksson/Ryan do better in Detroit. If that's what you'd like to see ok, but it's not unloading the problem which is the real goal.

I don't think Neal was a "problem" though. He had one down season in which he scored 7 goals. The rest of his career he averaged over 30 goals per 82 games. It was just a bad fit in Calgary. I don't think the same can be said about Ryan or Eriksson. However, I'd probably make that trade with Ottawa, if they retained some salary. Lucic for Neal was one for one, with similar salaries. Nielsen for Ryan, we'd be taking on an extra $2M in salary. That would be the only reason I wouldn't make that trade...

Lucic is just one example though. Clarkson was traded with 6 years remaining at $5.25M AAV. Phaneuf was traded with 6 years remaining at $7M AAV. Luongo was traded with 9! years remaining at $5.333M AAV. There are many other examples, but they're some of the worst I could think of.

Nielsen can definitely be traded next offseason, and I don't think it would have to include another terrible contract coming back. If for whatever reason, Yzerman can't find a suitor, he could buy him out. At that point, there would only be 2 years remaining on his contract, so a buyout would remain on the books for 4 years.

2020-21 - $3,416,667
2021-22 - $4,416,667
2022-23 - $666,667
2023-24 - $666,667

Or just waive his ass...

Regardless, Nielsen should not be on this roster beyond this season.

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3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't think Neal was a "problem" though. He had one down season in which he scored 7 goals. The rest of his career he averaged over 30 goals per 82 games. It was just a bad fit in Calgary. I don't think the same can be said about Ryan or Eriksson. However, I'd probably make that trade with Ottawa, if they retained some salary. Lucic for Neal was one for one, with similar salaries. Nielsen for Ryan, we'd be taking on an extra $2M in salary. That would be the only reason I wouldn't make that trade...

Lucic is just one example though. Clarkson was traded with 6 years remaining at $5.25M AAV. Phaneuf was traded with 6 years remaining at $7M AAV. Luongo was traded with 9! years remaining at $5.333M AAV. There are many other examples, but they're some of the worst I could think of.

Nielsen can definitely be traded next offseason, and I don't think it would have to include another terrible contract coming back. If for whatever reason, Yzerman can't find a suitor, he could buy him out. At that point, there would only be 2 years remaining on his contract, so a buyout would remain on the books for 4 years.

2020-21 - $3,416,667
2021-22 - $4,416,667
2022-23 - $666,667
2023-24 - $666,667

Or just waive his ass...

Regardless, Nielsen should not be on this roster beyond this season.

Not to be short, but you're getting way into the nitty gritty for what I was going for.

My point was simply you're not going to trade a burden like Nielsen without accepting another burden, so it's sort of a wash.

2 hours ago, marcaractac said:

Half way to catching up with Bernier!

1/4 of the way to de la Rose!

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1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Not to be short, but you're getting way into the nitty gritty for what I was going for.

My point was simply you're not going to trade a burden like Nielsen without accepting another burden, so it's sort of a wash.

And my point is, it had happened in the past and could happen again. I don't care how it happens, but Nielsen has to go...

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2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

And my point is, it had happened in the past and could happen again. I don't care how it happens, but Nielsen has to go...

"Hi Steve, it's Ken"

"Hey Ken"

"Look I will take that Nielsen contract off your hands, all I need is your 1st rounder and I'll send you back a 7th"

A. Yes
B. No
C. Counter-offer

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1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

"Hi Steve, it's Ken"

"Hey Ken"

"Look I will take that Nielsen contract off your hands, all I need is your 1st rounder and I'll send you back a 7th"

A. Yes
B. No
C. Counter-offer

B

So, you think the only way we can get rid of Nielsen is giving up a 1st round pick? Got it.

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39 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

B

So, you think the only way we can get rid of Nielsen is giving up a 1st round pick? Got it.

"Sorry Ken, we talked about your offer and decided it's a no from us"

"I get it Stephen, a 1st is too much, what if you send me your 2nd and Nielsen, and I'll give some good ol future considerations in return?"

A. Yes
B. No
C. Throw the phone at the wall

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36 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

"Sorry Ken, we talked about your offer and decided it's a no from us"

"I get it Stephen, a 1st is too much, what if you send me your 2nd and Nielsen, and I'll give some good ol future considerations in return?"

A. Yes
B. No
C. Throw the phone at the wall

B

There are always teams trying to reach the cap floor, that don't want to spend the money.

How about Nielsen (half salary retained) and 3rd round pick (or a mid level player / prospect) for a bad (but not awful) contract and a 6th round pick?

That's the type of deal that could be done, without hurting us long-term.

Neilsen is tradeable and we would not have to give up a top player / prospect / pick to make it happen.

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9 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

B

There are always teams trying to reach the cap floor, that don't want to spend the money.

How about Nielsen (half salary retained) and 3rd round pick (or a mid level player / prospect) for a bad (but not awful) contract and a 6th round pick?

That's the type of deal that could be done, without hurting us long-term.

Neilsen is tradeable and we would not have to give up a top player / prospect / pick to make it happen.

The easiest solution is trade him with salary retained for a player with a horrible contract and only one year remaining.  Play that player would be waived/demote to the AHL and the problem would go away in a year rather than two years.

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10 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

And my point is, it had happened in the past and could happen again. I don't care how it happens, but Nielsen has to go...

I don't think he has to go right now today though.

Not like there's anyone beating down the door for that 3C spot. Except Filpulla maybe......

Hopefully he's helping the kids keep their dignity through this suck fest. Regardless, he's certainly helping with the tank at least. 

Unless someone comes knocking, I'd keep him until next fall. He'll be good competition for Veleno and Rasmussen in training camp. 

 

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15 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I don't think he has to go right now today though.

Not like there's anyone beating down the door for that 3C spot. Except Filpulla maybe......

Hopefully he's helping the kids keep their dignity through this suck fest. Regardless, he's certainly helping with the tank at least. 

Unless someone comes knocking, I'd keep him until next fall. He'll be good competition for Veleno and Rasmussen in training camp. 

 

Pretty much this

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On 11/23/2019 at 12:58 AM, The 91 of Ryans said:

I don't think he has to go right now today though.

Not like there's anyone beating down the door for that 3C spot. Except Filpulla maybe......

Hopefully he's helping the kids keep their dignity through this suck fest. Regardless, he's certainly helping with the tank at least. 

Unless someone comes knocking, I'd keep him until next fall. He'll be good competition for Veleno and Rasmussen in training camp. 

I honestly believe that Veleno or Rasmussen would be an upgrade over Nielsen as the 3C right now. However, I'm not advocating that change right now, as I believe long term they're probably better off developing this season in Grand Rapids. I'm completely fine with Nielsen helping the "tank" this season (he's doing a great job), but he should not be (I don't think he will be) anywhere near this roster next season. I'm sure one of Veleno or Rasmussen will be more than ready to take over as the 3C next season.

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15 hours ago, mackel said:

Not a fan of howie but definetly not interested in any of those longterm , sadly i can see howard coming back for another year unless we get someone like a greiss to commit to 1/2 year deal but why would he ? Hes in a good spot now and id suspect the hawks would retain the younger lehner or maybe keep both at cheaper options and, cant see crawford getting 6 again

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On 11/24/2019 at 10:33 AM, krsmith17 said:

I honestly believe that Veleno or Rasmussen would be an upgrade over Nielsen as the 3C right now. However, I'm not advocating that change right now, as I believe long term they're probably better off developing this season in Grand Rapids. I'm completely fine with Nielsen helping the "tank" this season (he's doing a great job), but he should not be (I don't think he will be) anywhere near this roster next season. I'm sure one of Veleno or Rasmussen will be more than ready to take over as the 3C next season.

Would you keep Nielsen over

Someone like

I dunno

Maybe

Possibly

I'm thinking

How about

Let's say

EHN?

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18 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Would you keep Nielsen over

Someone like

I dunno

Maybe

Possibly

I'm thinking

How about

Let's say

EHN?

No. They both suck, but the difference is, Ehn is paid like a borderline NHL player, whereas Nielsen is paid like a 2nd line center... That, to go along with the 12 year age gap, if I had to choose, I'd obviously keep Ehn. However, neither should be on this team next season.

Nielsen should be traded / waived / bought out and Ehn should only be brought back as depth for Grand Rapids or as the 13th / 14th forward.

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20 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

No. They both suck, but the difference is, Ehn is paid like a borderline NHL player, whereas Nielsen is paid like a 2nd line center... That, to go along with the 12 year age gap, if I had to choose, I'd obviously keep Ehn. However, neither should be on this team next season.

Nielsen should be traded / waived / bought out and Ehn should only be brought back as depth for Grand Rapids or as the 13th / 14th forward.

Ehn probably won't ever be an "elite" center, but he will definitely be a bottom six center at the NHL level. He's still very young (23). Take away that '106th overall' tag, and he's our undisputed top defensive forward prospect. He may never carry a line at the NHL level, which is fine. Very few bottom 6 centers do, but he will likely be a very good complement to high end grinding wingers.

The way he makes very few mistakes is a positive in my opinion. He's doesn't make mistakes in every possible way. He doesn't take bad penalties, covers the high-slot, plays the system, back checks, etc. It's a good thing that he's not trying to be something he's not, ala Pulkkinen and Frk...

I'm not going to say I see "elite" defense at this point, but it is high end. He hasn't dominated at the AHL, let alone the NHL *yet*, but he's been holding down his line for himself and his line mates. It's not like he's been sitting back, waiting for things to come to him. He's been going to get it.

Ehn will be fine.

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13 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Ehn probably won't ever be an "elite" center, but he will definitely be a bottom six center at the NHL level. He's still very young (23). Take away that '106th overall' tag, and he's our undisputed top defensive forward prospect. He may never carry a line at the NHL level, which is fine. Very few bottom 6 centers do, but he will likely be a very good complement to high end grinding wingers.

The way he makes very few mistakes is a positive in my opinion. He's doesn't make mistakes in every possible way. He doesn't take bad penalties, covers the high-slot, plays the system, back checks, etc. It's a good thing that he's not trying to be something he's not, ala Pulkkinen and Frk...

I'm not going to say I see "elite" defense at this point, but it is high end. He hasn't dominated at the AHL, let alone the NHL *yet*, but he's been holding down his line for himself and his line mates. It's not like he's been sitting back, waiting for things to come to him. He's been going to get it.

Ehn will be fine.

This is what I've been saying. Are you just trying to troll me? 

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