Would you bring back Babcock?

[Jonas Mahonas 1,872]

When Babcock snubbed Fedorov at the ceremony, I joined the Como64 team.  Babcock is a sh#tty human.  No reason to give 2 pints of piss about him.

[LeftWinger 4,959]

do you want to see all the youth back in Rapids? No.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

19 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Key games / situations. Game 7 in the playoffs, your top dogs should play 25+ minutes, not 18...

Anyway, I'm done with this. I don't care enough about Babcock, much less the Leafs.

MARLEAU PLAYED MORE MINUTES THAN AUSTON

[chaps80 1,591]

No. I figure he'll be in talks to coach Seattle soon. Or might end up somewhere like Tampa or SJ.

[RedWingsRox 614]

Why, do we need a coach in Grand Rapids for the Griffins? 

Even if we did ... NO NO NO!!!

Edited November 25, 2019 by RedWingsRox

[F.Michael 4,590]

On 11/22/2019 at 8:38 PM, Jonas Mahonas said:

When Babcock snubbed Fedorov at the ceremony, I joined the Como64 team.  Babcock is a sh#tty human.  No reason to give 2 pints of piss about him.

What ceremony was this?

[kipwinger 8,524]

As one might expect, I have no interest in Babs.  I think bringing him on would probably improve the team, but only marginally given our talent level, and we'd end up looking a lot like the Wings from 2012-2015 (i.e. a handful of decent players grinding games to a halt to win).

In a more general sense one has to wonder about Babs' overall approach after this debacle in TO. That's as winning a roster as you're ever gonna get, and to have the results he's had has to leave you wondering what's going on?  He's got all the offense a guy could ask for, in all different varieties. I'd agree that moving on from guys like JVR and Kadri was perhaps short sighted, but it's not like they were replaced with bums. Their defense WAS weak a couple years ago, so Dubas went out and acquired genuine top four talent in Muzzin, Barrie, and Ceci and they've done well developing Dermott and Liljegren as well. Their goalie situation isn't great, but their starter is good and I think it's pretty thin to blame this dumpster fire on a backup goalie.  Like I said, this is as good a roster as most coaches will have in their entire careers. Which brings me to...

Peter Laviolette.  Won a Cup in Carolina with absolutely nothing. Went to the Cup finals with a good, but not spectacular roster in Philly and lost to a dynasty team.  Then took a good, but not spectacular,  Nashville team to the finals and lost to another dynasty team. He's actually done what Babs always gets credit for (i.e. win with thin rosters), he's got just as many Cups as Babs in just as many tries, and is the only guy to ever beat Babcock in the Olympics (for people who think that matters). 

If he's available, I'd be more than thrilled to see Laviolette behind Detroit's bench. I've been a fan of the guy's for a really long time, and I'd love to see an offensive coach take advantage of this team's speed and skill going forward.

[F.Michael 4,590]

25 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

As one might expect, I have no interest in Babs.  I think bringing him on would probably improve the team, but only marginally given our talent level, and we'd end up looking a lot like the Wings from 2012-2015 (i.e. a handful of decent players grinding games to a halt to win).

In a more general sense one has to wonder about Babs' overall approach after this debacle in TO. That's as winning a roster as you're ever gonna get, and to have the results he's had has to leave you wondering what's going on?  He's got all the offense a guy could ask for, in all different varieties. I'd agree that moving on from guys like JVR and Kadri was perhaps short sighted, but it's not like they were replaced with bums. Their defense WAS weak a couple years ago, so Dubas went out and acquired genuine top four talent in Muzzin, Barrie, and Ceci and they've done well developing Dermott and Liljegren as well. Their goalie situation isn't great, but their starter is good and I think it's pretty thin to blame this dumpster fire on a backup goalie.  Like I said, this is as good a roster as most coaches will have in their entire careers. Which brings me to...

Peter Laviolette.  Won a Cup in Carolina with absolutely nothing. Went to the Cup finals with a good, but not spectacular roster in Philly and lost to a dynasty team.  Then took a good, but not spectacular,  Nashville team to the finals and lost to another dynasty team. He's actually done what Babs always gets credit for (i.e. win with thin rosters), he's got just as many Cups as Babs in just as many tries, and is the only guy to ever beat Babcock in the Olympics (for people who think that matters). 

If he's available, I'd be more than thrilled to see Laviolette behind Detroit's bench. I've been a fan of the guy's for a really long time, and I'd love to see an offensive coach take advantage of this team's speed and skill going forward.

There's still holes on the Leafs D with regards as to what goes on in their own end of the ice...Pretty much every Dman there except for Muzzin has little desire to play a defensive minded game, and that was by choice since Dubas drafted/acquired these guys for their offensive prowess...But yeah - certainly no shortage of talent on that roster.

They're probably best suited to play run, and gun hockey, and hope that Andersen can bail them out...I think they'll make the playoffs with that style of play, but as always who knows how far they'll get.

[kipwinger 8,524]

29 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

There's still holes on the Leafs D with regards as to what goes on in their own end of the ice...Pretty much every Dman there except for Muzzin has little desire to play a defensive minded game, and that was by choice since Dubas drafted/acquired these guys for their offensive prowess...But yeah - certainly no shortage of talent on that roster.

They're probably best suited to play run, and gun hockey, and hope that Andersen can bail them out...I think they'll make the playoffs with that style of play, but as always who knows how far they'll get.

I don't agree with that though.  Aside from Muzzin, Ceci is also a solid defensive player, and Babs couldn't shut up about how much he loved Reilly's game (and we all know Babs can't stand an all offense player).  Of the two young guys, Liljegren is more offensive (and he's still in the AHL rounding out his game) while Dermott is a solid two-way defender.  Only Barrie is what you'd consider a pure "offensive defenseman" and you need some guys like that, otherwise your powerplay will suck. While that defense isn't top five in the league, it's certainly top 10-12 and should not be used as a scapegoat here. 

In years past we heard over and over and over about how to win a Cup you need elite talent at center, a true 1D, scoring depth, and a goalie that can keep you in games in the playoffs.  The Leafs had all of that under Babs.  As someone said on Twitter, he was handed a Ferrari and complained that it couldn't win a monster truck rally.  On top of that, he is by all accounts a huge prick so players didn't want him around, and finally he threw his GM under the bus at the end of last season.  Add all that together and you have a recipe for what transpired.

Edit:  Forgot about Justin Holl, who is also a solid defensively responsible defender, with a little bit of offense.  A lot like a Dekeyser.

Edited November 25, 2019 by kipwinger

[F.Michael 4,590]

5 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I don't agree with that though.  Aside from Muzzin, Ceci is also a solid defensive player, and Babs couldn't shut up about how much he loved Reilly's game (and we all know Babs can't stand an all offense player).  Of the two young guys, Liljegren is more offensive (and he's still in the AHL rounding out his game) while Dermott is a solid two-way defender.  Only Barrie is what you'd consider a pure "offensive defenseman" and you need some guys like that, otherwise your powerplay will suck. While that defense isn't top five in the league, it's certainly top 10-12 and should not be used as a scapegoat here. 

In years past we heard over and over and over about how to win a Cup you need elite talent at center, a true 1D, scoring depth, and a goalie that can keep you in games in the playoffs.  The Leafs had all of that under Babs.  As someone said on Twitter, he was handed a Ferrari and complained that it couldn't win a monster truck rally.  On top of that, he is by all accounts a huge prick so players didn't want him around, and finally he threw his GM under the bus at the end of last season.  Add all that together and you have a recipe for what transpired.

Are we watching the same Leafs?

Defensive zone lapses have been 1 of their top concerns...Maybe things will turn around - we'll see.

[kipwinger 8,524]

3 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Are we watching the same Leafs?

Defensive zone lapses have been 1 of their top concerns...Maybe things will turn around - we'll see.

I totally agree, but I just don't think it's a personnel problem.  They weren't very good on the powerplay all season either, but I don't see anyone saying they lack good offensive players. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by kipwinger

[F.Michael 4,590]

Just now, kipwinger said:

I totally agree, but I just don't think it's a personnel problem.  They weren't very good only the powerplay all season either, but I don't see anyone saying they lack good offensive players. 

That back end - and the team in general is built on offense...Dubas wants a team that can compete in the Kentucky Derby...Babcock wants a team of Army Mules...I'm honestly surprised they didn't fire  Babcock this past spring...He really came across as a smug **** while Dubas accepted the heat...Either way - the Leafs should probably play a style that Dubas envisioned - high octane offense...Fun to watch, but for the die-hard Leaf fans - oh man Andersen really needs to be at the top of his game.

[kipwinger 8,524]

1 minute ago, F.Michael said:

That back end - and the team in general is built on offense...Dubas wants a team that can compete in the Kentucky Derby...Babcock wants a team of Army Mules...I'm honestly surprised they didn't fire  Babcock this past spring...He really came across as a smug **** while Dubas accepted the heat...Either way - the Leafs should probably play a style that Dubas envisioned - high octane offense...Fun to watch, but for the die-hard Leaf fans - oh man Andersen really needs to be at the top of his game.

I tend to think that if you've got that kind of personnel you don't have to sacrifice one for the other.  Look at Tampa last year.  Obviously high octane offense, but they weren't a bad defensive team either.  The Leafs have that kind of talent.  I think the challenge for every coach if figuring out the right combination of offense to defense that best suits your personnel.  If you've got no offensively capable players you kind have to shut things down defensively.  If you've got lots of high end offensive players you probably have defend a little less.  I'm not sure if TO were defending too much or not.  What I do know is that their elite offensive talent wasn't changing games the way it should, and that their personnel on defense were better than their collective effort.

[Learn2LuvIt 245]

I think the way this ended in Toronto has likely put a massive jolt of shock and anger into Babs and his ego.  Especially considering his firing was from the self proclaimed "epicenter of hockey" in Canada.  I mean, he's probably thinking "after multiple gold medals...this is how you treat a national hero??"  I know the Leafs are an NHL organization, but the town of Toronto (which is tied to the hip with the Leafs) is where most of the shots are called in terms of hockey in Canada and the NHL.  I could see him seeking a little revenge on many in the town of Toronto and many within the Leafs organization.  I don't see him taking a year or more off to evaluate and look for the right opportunity...I think he's pissed and now on a mission to prove to Toronto that they made a big mistake.

As far as Commodore's comments when he was fired...kind of lame.  We get it dude, you didn't like your boss and thought you didn't get a fair shake or weren't treated right.  I got news for you dude...welcome to the club.  Bosses can totally suck.  But do you have to kick a guy like you did when he's down (and not just kick...I mean top rope to the head with a lot of very personal insults about Babs as a person).  What he said may be okay if there is that much bad blood between the two (I don't think anyone knows the true details of what happened)?  I guess.... But on the day he got fired to publicly state that he's a "terrible human being" and "selfish pr#@*" is a little strong.  Low class.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

32 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

I tend to think that if you've got that kind of personnel you don't have to sacrifice one for the other.  Look at Tampa last year.  Obviously high octane offense, but they weren't a bad defensive team either.  The Leafs have that kind of talent.  I think the challenge for every coach if figuring out the right combination of offense to defense that best suits your personnel.  If you've got no offensively capable players you kind have to shut things down defensively.  If you've got lots of high end offensive players you probably have defend a little less.  I'm not sure if TO were defending too much or not.  What I do know is that their elite offensive talent wasn't changing games the way it should, and that their personnel on defense were better than their collective effort.

I don't know that the problem with the Leafs was defensive per say. It's definitely an offense heavy team though...

It's watching them lose board battle after board battle and lacking any real fight in there game. They totally come off as confused or disinterested at times.

That's probably to blame on Babs losing the room, and also a team lacking any real role-players.

2-0 in the Keefe era

23 minutes ago, Learn2LuvIt said:

I think the way this ended in Toronto has likely put a massive jolt of shock and anger into Babs and his ego.  Especially considering his firing was from the self proclaimed "epicenter of hockey" in Canada.  I mean, he's probably thinking "after multiple gold medals...this is how you treat a national hero??"  I know the Leafs are an NHL organization, but the town of Toronto (which is tied to the hip with the Leafs) is where most of the shots are called in terms of hockey in Canada and the NHL.  I could see him seeking a little revenge on many in the town of Toronto and many within the Leafs organization.  I don't see him taking a year or more off to evaluate and look for the right opportunity...I think he's pissed and now on a mission to prove to Toronto that they made a big mistake.

As far as Commodore's comments when he was fired...kind of lame.  We get it dude, you didn't like your boss and thought you didn't get a fair shake or weren't treated right.  I got news for you dude...welcome to the club.  Bosses can totally suck.  But do you have to kick a guy like you did when he's down (and not just kick...I mean top rope to the head with a lot of very personal insults about Babs as a person).  What he said may be okay if there is that much bad blood between the two (I don't think anyone knows the true details of what happened)?  I guess.... But on the day he got fired to publicly state that he's a "terrible human being" and "selfish pr#@*" is a little strong.  Low class.

Like many have said, I think Seattle would be a unique opportunity for Babs. He'll have a ton of say in roster selection and can build the team to fit his evil ways.

However, Seattle seems help bent on being the new, different, progressive, team in the league. So I doubt they go with such an old school jackass lol

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Where is the "When Hell freezes over" option?

[chaps80 1,591]

On 11/25/2019 at 10:41 AM, F.Michael said:

There's still holes on the Leafs D with regards as to what goes on in their own end of the ice...Pretty much every Dman there except for Muzzin has little desire to play a defensive minded game, and that was by choice since Dubas drafted/acquired these guys for their offensive prowess...But yeah - certainly no shortage of talent on that roster.

They're probably best suited to play run, and gun hockey, and hope that Andersen can bail them out...I think they'll make the playoffs with that style of play, but as always who knows how far they'll get.

They're gonna burn Andersen out...again.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Caps interviewing Babs. Ovi finally gonna become a well rounded player and get the cup. 

[kliq 3,755]

On 11/27/2019 at 12:30 AM, chaps80 said:

They're gonna burn Andersen out...again.

I read an article talking about the possibility of us taking him on from the Leafs. 

[chaps80 1,591]

16 hours ago, kliq said:

I read an article talking about the possibility of us taking him on from the Leafs. 

I dunno if i'd want him at $5 million at this point..Bernier/journeyman is fine with me. Depends what the deal involves..will they retain salary? What would they want in return? Weird that Freddie is rumored to be available..maybe Dubas realizes he can't win with him...

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

22 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Caps interviewing Babs. Ovi finally gonna become a well rounded player and get the cup. 

Ovi already got his Cup. No need for Babs.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Ovi already got his Cup. No need for Babs.

But did he get the cup AND become a well rounded player?

No

You lose

[kliq 3,755]

8 hours ago, chaps80 said:

I dunno if i'd want him at $5 million at this point..Bernier/journeyman is fine with me. Depends what the deal involves..will they retain salary? What would they want in return? Weird that Freddie is rumored to be available..maybe Dubas realizes he can't win with him...

I dont think it will happen. I got the impression that they were thinking a cap dump as he only has 1 year left on his deal, and the Leafs are rumored to be interested in Lehner and Murray.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

What if Rags buyout Lundqvist?

[chaps80 1,591]

9 hours ago, kliq said:

I dont think it will happen. I got the impression that they were thinking a cap dump as he only has 1 year left on his deal, and the Leafs are rumored to be interested in Lehner and Murray.

They would be better moving on from Andersen imo. He just can't seem to get it done when it matters. I don't see any need for him in Detroit, unless the Leafs are willing to retain at least half his salary. $5.5 million tandem is fine.

I read that the Pens were considering their future in goal and might go with Jarry. Their time as contenders is coming to an end, Murray is an RFA and arbitration eligible. 

Edited September 9, 2020 by chaps80