Wings trade with Coyotes for G Eric Comrie, trade D Vili Saarijarvi

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 hours ago, F.Michael said:

What if we finish 31st, and as usual we drop 3 spots back to the 4th overall pick, or if by some strange miracle the Wings go on a few winning streaks thus ending the season 29th, or 30th, and then drop back a few spots - leaving us anywhere from 4th thru 6th?

If this is the case - I’m all for selecting comrade goalkeeper dude.

The only way I consider Askarov, is if we acquire another 1st round pick and it ends up between 10-15. I doubt he'd even be available there, but that's the only way I'd take him.

The lowest we'll draft is 4th, and I'd personally rather take any of the forwards (Lafreniere, Byfield, Raymond, Holtz, Stutzle, Lundell), or even the defenseman (Drysdale) ahead of the goalie (Askarov)...

[Dabura 12,207]

8 hours ago, marcaractac said:

Wings can't afford to use what will be their highest pick in decades on a goalie. 

Do or do not. There is no afford.

If it's between [really good but not gamechanging C] and [really good but not gamechanging W] and [really good but not gamechanging D] and [best goalie prospect since Carey Price], there's an argument to be made for the goalie.

[F.Michael 4,590]

15 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

The only way I consider Askarov, is if we acquire another 1st round pick and it ends up between 10-15. I doubt he'd even be available there, but that's the only way I'd take him.

The lowest we'll draft is 4th, and I'd personally rather take any of the forwards (Lafreniere, Byfield, Raymond, Holtz, Stutzle, Lundell), or even the defenseman (Drysdale) ahead of the goalie (Askarov)...

Forgive my ignorance since I don't follow draft prospects, but outside of Lafreniere, and Byfield are the others in the top 5 forward/Dmen looked upon as bonafide stars, and/or elite talent?

From what little I've read - Askarov has that potential to be an elite netminder at the NHL level.

So with that in mind I ask myself...Do we, or would Yzerman want at the #3, #4, or #5 (if we wind up 29th, or 30th, and drop as usual 2, or 3 spots back)  spot a guy capable of 70 pts, - maybe a few more/less, or a guy who could be our version of Carey Price, or possibly better?

2 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Do or do not. There is no afford.

If it's between [really good but not gamechanging C] and [really good but not gamechanging W] and [really good but not gamechanging D] and [best goalie prospect since Carey Price], there's an argument to be made for the goalie.

As the lotto Gods usually do - I expect us not picking top 2...3 if we're lucky, and most likely we'll drop back to 4, and God forbid we go on a similar winning streak like last spring that sees us move in the standing.

Outside of the top 2 guys - I don't know enough about the rest outside of Askarov, and if he's gonna develop into an elite netminder - why not take him? 

[Dabura 12,207]

15 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

As the lotto Gods usually do - I expect us not picking top 2...3 if we're lucky, and most likely we'll drop back to 4, and God forbid we go on a similar winning streak like last spring that sees us move in the standing.

Outside of the top 2 guys - I don't know enough about the rest outside of Askarov, and if he's gonna develop into an elite netminder - why not take him? 

The consensus is that this is an unusually deep draft class. I'm starting to feel like the depth has been overstated a bit (and, yeah, I'd be guilty of contributing to that), but who knows. Personally, I'm having a tough time finding quality video of a lot of the top Euro prospects, which makes it impossible for me to have truly informed takes about stuff at this time, which pisses me off.

Here are some rankings and such:

http://www.mynhldraft.com/NHL-Mock-Draft/

https://dobberprospects.com/2020-nhl-draft-fantasy-rankings/

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nhl/news/2020-nhl-entry-draft-top-125-alexis-lafreniere-quinton-byfield-continue-to-lead-the-pack/50ww450pezp61pmnksfov362i

[Dabura 12,207]

I think if there's one GM who wouldn't necessarily be tossed into an active volcano for picking a goalie 4th overall in this draft, it's Steve Yzerman. Look at our goalie situation. Look at our goal differential. Look at how much trust and goodwill Yzerman has built up with the fans. I would not be surprised if he takes the goalie in the top 8.

[F.Michael 4,590]

3 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I think if there's one GM who wouldn't necessarily be tossed into an active volcano for picking a goalie 4th overall in this draft, it's Steve Yzerman. Look at our goalie situation. Look at our goal differential. Look at how much trust and goodwill Yzerman has built up with the fans. I would not be surprised if he takes the goalie in the top 8.

What if lets say we wind up with the 3rd, or 4th overall pick...The Sens have 2 potential top 10 picks (if the season ended today)...Would anyone here swap our 3rd overall for the Sens two 1st round?

I doubt the Sens would want to trade both, but who knows?

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

I dont even want to think of getting the 4th pick , in my mind its byfield/lafraniere but if we happened to fall to 4th and whether we take him at 4 or trade back a spot or 2 i would consider drafting askarov and im sure after stevie pulled the seider move last year he’d have no problem taking him

im still gunning for a top 2 pick but seeing as larsson and the other goalies are still a question mark the thought of having a goalie like askarov(if he turns out to be as good as advertised) + seider + hronek on the back end should be golden for the next dozen years 

really wish we were in the sens shoes this season and had that extra 1st this year than might turn out to be 2 top 10 picks, either way it should be a good draft for us

[mackel 679]

The answer here is simple... if you draft top 3 take the player you want from what's available.

Then trade Zadina and a 2021 second to __________ for their first this year and draft Askarov. 

You'd get a far better forward prospect and a potential franchise goalie for a bust and a 2nd rounder.

 

[Dabura 12,207]

13 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

What if lets say we wind up with the 3rd, or 4th overall pick...The Sens have 2 potential top 10 picks (if the season ended today)...Would anyone here swap our 3rd overall for the Sens two 1st round?

I doubt the Sens would want to trade both, but who knows?

I guess it'd hinge on where those two Sens picks are -- and, of course, who My Guys are and where it looks like they're going to be taken. Tough to have a strong opinion about this one in December.

13 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

I dont even want to think of getting the 4th pick , in my mind its byfield/lafraniere but if we happened to fall to 4th and whether we take him at 4 or trade back a spot or 2 i would consider drafting askarov and im sure after stevie pulled the seider move last year he’d have no problem taking him

im still gunning for a top 2 pick but seeing as larsson and the other goalies are still a question mark the thought of having a goalie like askarov(if he turns out to be as good as advertised) + seider + hronek on the back end should be golden for the next dozen years 

really wish we were in the sens shoes this season and had that extra 1st this year than might turn out to be 2 top 10 picks, either way it should be a good draft for us

Yeah, I think you and I are pretty much of the same mind here. The lack of a second 1st really stings, but I guess being the worst team in the league sort of makes up for it.

If Askarov is as good as advertised, I think it follows that you can make a case for him being the best player available as high as 4th or possibly even 3rd. Hell, maybe even 2nd. By all indications, he's that good a goalie prospect. I mean, I get that goalies are a crapshoot and "you don't take a goalie that high," but does that apply to guys who are as good as Askarov apparently is? I feel like it doesn't.

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

Do or do not. There is no afford.

If it's between [really good but not gamechanging C] and [really good but not gamechanging W] and [really good but not gamechanging D] and [best goalie prospect since Carey Price], there's an argument to be made for the goalie.

I just think a really good, game changing player will be available at number 4. I think there's more risk involved in taking a goaltender top 5, than there is taking a skater. If Yzerman does take Askarov with that 1st pick, I'll trust him. I'd just hope it doesn't come back to bite us, because goalies are still a bit of a crap shoot, even the elite of elite at the age of 17...

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 minutes ago, Dabura said:

If Askarov is as good as advertised, I think it follows that you can make a case for him being the best player available as high as 4th or possibly even 3rd. Hell, maybe even 2nd. By all indications, he's that good a goalie prospect. I mean, I get that goalies are a crapshoot and "you don't take a goalie that high," but does that apply to guys who are as good as Askarov apparently is? I feel like it doesn't.

Rick DiPietro. Jack Campbell.

54 minutes ago, mackel said:

The answer here is simple... if you draft top 3 take the player you want from what's available.

Then trade Zadina and a 2021 second to __________ for their first this year and draft Askarov. 

You'd get a far better forward prospect and a potential franchise goalie for a bust and a 2nd rounder.

Serious question... Have you watched the "bust" play at all this season? He's been very good in Grand Rapids. After a slow start he was a point per game player the past 12 games. He also looked really good in limited ice time, with two anchors as linemates in Detroit. Kid is going to be good. 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

11 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I guess it'd hinge on where those two Sens picks are -- and, of course, who My Guys are and where it looks like they're going to be taken. Tough to have a strong opinion about this one in December.

Yeah, I think you and I are pretty much of the same mind here. The lack of a second 1st really stings, but I guess being the worst team in the league sort of makes up for it.

If Askarov is as good as advertised, I think it follows that you can make a case for him being the best player available as high as 4th or possibly even 3rd. Hell, maybe even 2nd. By all indications, he's that good a goalie prospect. I mean, I get that goalies are a crapshoot and "you don't take a goalie that high," but does that apply to guys who are as good as Askarov apparently is? I feel like it doesn't.

Id still take one of the  high end forwards if we win the lottery without a question, if we fall to 4th id maybe consider it if hes our guy and we can drop to 5/6 and add another 2nd or something , maybe we move AA for a first and can make a move to get in the top 10 to land him somehow i dont know, or move AA for a top forward prospect or dman i think without question though we take a forward with a lottery pick win 

Id say either way the odds are high we’ll take a forward regardless where we fall but since stevie took vasilevsky you never know 

Edited December 7, 2019 by nyqvististhefuture

[Dabura 12,207]

Just now, krsmith17 said:

I just think a really good, game changing player will be available at number 4.

Agreed. And his name is Askarov.

Admittedly, I'm sort of arguing for the sake of arguing. For all we know, Yzerman doesn't like Askarov. For all we know, Yzerman's already prepared to take Tim Stutzle 2nd overall. ...And y'know what? If that's the play, I'll back it. I want a guy that Yzerman is over the moon about. That's all I can really ask for as a fan.

[Dabura 12,207]

6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Rick DiPietro. Jack Campbell.

Fair. But we're dealing with a pretty smallish sample size, right? I'm sure there have been misses, but I'm also sure there have been some hits. No one likes Fleury, but he's done pretty well for himself in his career. Price is Price.

[Dabura 12,207]

10 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Id still take one of the  high end forwards if we win the lottery without a question, if we fall to 4th id maybe consider it if hes our guy and we can drop to 5/6 and add another 2nd or something , maybe we move AA for a first and can make a move to get in the top 10 to land him somehow i dont know, or move AA for a top forward prospect or dman i think without question though we take a forward with a lottery pick win 

Id say either way the odds are high we’ll take a forward regardless where we fall but since stevie took vasilevsky you never know 

Yzerman took Vasilevskiy 19th overall tho. So, if anything, that probably works against the idea that Yzerman would take Askarov in the top 5.

Would be real nice to get Askarov in the 12-20 range with a second 1st. I've gotta think Yzerman is not ok with going through this godawful season and only getting one 1st out of it. Our best shot at getting that pick may be to package AA and Glendening.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

26 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Yzerman took Vasilevskiy 19th overall tho. So, if anything, that probably works against the idea that Yzerman would take Askarov in the top 5.

Would be real nice to get Askarov in the 12-20 range with a second 1st. I've gotta think Yzerman is not ok with going through this godawful season and only getting one 1st out of it. Our best shot at getting that pick may be to package AA and Glendening.

Shows hes not afraid to draft a russian goalie in the 1st though and if hes suppose to be as good as carey price(although im not a huge fan of his personally ) or just a top stud goalie and cant lose pick then id say he gets picked top 10 for sure , also depends how he goes rest of the season , if russia wins the world juniors and he gets the championship in russia as well for example it will only benefit him even more 

stevie may not be ok with it but he might have no choice , do think AA has a shot but he’d have to produce more #’s, so id personally be pushing blash to put him on the top line now . And im probably niave but id like to think after pageau teams might look at glendening as a solid 3rd line addition guy and maybe he can land us a 2nd with salary retention

anyways all that being said im just anxious to get rid daley and some of the deadweight on this team , heck id even throw bowey at this point for a 4/5th pick at this point to some team looking for playoff depth and call up hicketts rest of the way . Time to take out some trash

[mackel 679]

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Rick DiPietro. Jack Campbell.

Serious question... Have you watched the "bust" play at all this season? He's been very good in Grand Rapids. After a slow start he was a point per game player the past 12 games. He also looked really good in limited ice time, with two anchors as linemates in Detroit. Kid is going to be good. 

Bust in the making....

[F.Michael 4,590]

3 hours ago, Dabura said:

Agreed. And his name is Askarov.

Admittedly, I'm sort of arguing for the sake of arguing. For all we know, Yzerman doesn't like Askarov. For all we know, Yzerman's already prepared to take Tim Stutzle 2nd overall. ...And y'know what? If that's the play, I'll back it. I want a guy that Yzerman is over the moon about. That's all I can really ask for as a fan.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

5 hours ago, mackel said:

The answer here is simple... if you draft top 3 take the player you want from what's available.

Then trade Zadina and a 2021 second to __________ for their first this year and draft Askarov. 

You'd get a far better forward prospect and a potential franchise goalie for a bust and a 2nd rounder.

 

If you really thought Zadina was a bust, then you would never think he would be worth a 1st round pick.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[Dabura 12,207]

40 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Stootz and Seider are good friends. You know what's more important than friendship? NOTHING, THAT'S WHAT.

Just sayin'.

[F.Michael 4,590]

1 minute ago, Dabura said:

Stootz and Seider are good friends. You know what's more important than friendship? NOTHING, THAT'S WHAT.

Just sayin'.

On a more serious note...Stutzle seems to have quite a few more assists than goals...Might he be a Mitch Marner type?

[Dabura 12,207]

6 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

On a more serious note...Stutzle seems to have quite a few more assists than goals...Might he be a Mitch Marner type?

@ely s is the guy to ask about Germanbro stuff.

I will say this tho: "Could be the next Marner" seems to be an unspoken theme with a number of this draft's top forwards.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

16 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

A goaltender is engaged (play in the defensive zone) for, at most 40-50% of the game. That's approximately 25-30 minutes per game. A starting goaltender plays approximately 60-70% of the games. That's approximately 50-55 games a season. That's approximately 1,400 minutes per season

A defenseman (any skater) is engaged ever minute they're on the ice (offensive and defensive zone). A number one defenseman plays approximately 25-30 minutes per game, and 82 games per season (assuming no injury). That's approximately 2,200 minutes per season. Defensemen can prevent goals and score goals.

Defensemen are more important.

Never draft a goaltender in the top half of the first round.

Also, I'm drunk, so none of what I said makes any sense. Go to bed.

Also, also LGW is BACK!

Well for a drunk guy this is a 10/10 quality post.

All I'll say is average variance of shots on goal against between teams over a season is actually pretty small despite the team you ice. Last year the best shot suppression team was the Ducks at 27.7 allowed per game and the worst was the Canes at 34.4 allowed per game. A difference of only 6.7 per game from the high to the low end.

The best sv% starting goalie last year was Bishop at 0.934 and the worst starter was Quick at 0.888. A difference of only 4.6%. However that 4.6% number matters a whole lot more when you consider the volume it represents.

Quick on the Ducks last year would have allowed 254.4 goals against. Despite the heavy shot suppression D this puts them at #21 in goals against
Quick on the Canes last year would have allowed 315.9 goals against. Making them the worst goals against team in the league.

Bishop on the Ducks last year would have allowed 148.92 goals against. Making them by far the best team in the league in preventing goals.
Bishop on the Canes last year would have allowed 186.2 goals against. Making them again the best team in the league in preventing goals.

Confounding factor is back ups. It's too difficult to account for that variance from team to team and games played.

My point is that, it doesn't really matter how good the ducks D was last year. A bad goalie will make you bad. Or at least drag you down to below average defensively. Bishop on the other hand could have instantly made either the Ducks or the Canes the best defensive team in the league, despite the wide variance in shot suppression. Your goalies are gonna face about 30 shots per night no matter what you do. Having a guy that blocks 0.930 of those over just say 0.900 is actually pretty huge.

I'll go on to say this, the 3 elite players that seem to be on the board to me are Lafren, Byfield, and Askarov. Maybe Raymond is a Pettersson, or maybe he is a Zadina, idk. But if we end up with the 4th overall and Askarov is still there, I definitely consider adding him over somebody who may just end up an average top 6er.

GOALIES LIVES MATTER

[F.Michael 4,590]

6 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Well for a drunk guy this is a 10/10 quality post.

All I'll say is average variance of shots on goal against between teams over a season is actually pretty small despite the team you ice. Last year the best shot suppression team was the Ducks at 27.7 allowed per game and the worst was the Canes at 34.4 allowed per game. A difference of only 6.7 per game from the high to the low end.

The best sv% starting goalie last year was Bishop at 0.934 and the worst starter was Quick at 0.888. A difference of only 4.6%. However that 4.6% number matters a whole lot more when you consider the volume it represents.

Quick on the Ducks last year would have allowed 254.4 goals against. Despite the heavy shot suppression D this puts them at #21 in goals against
Quick on the Canes last year would have allowed 315.9 goals against. Making them the worst goals against team in the league.

Bishop on the Ducks last year would have allowed 148.92 goals against. Making them by far the best team in the league in preventing goals.
Bishop on the Canes last year would have allowed 186.2 goals against. Making them again the best team in the league in preventing goals.

Confounding factor is back ups. It's too difficult to account for that variance from team to team and games played.

My point is that, it doesn't really matter how good the ducks D was last year. A bad goalie will make you bad. Or at least drag you down to below average defensively. Bishop on the other hand could have instantly made either the Ducks or the Canes the best defensive team in the league, despite the wide variance in shot suppression. Your goalies are gonna face about 30 shots per night no matter what you do. Having a guy that blocks 0.930 of those over just say 0.900 is actually pretty huge.

I'll go on to say this, the 3 elite players that seem to be on the board to me are Lafren, Byfield, and Askarov. Maybe Raymond is a Pettersson, or maybe he is a Zadina, idk. But if we end up with the 4th overall and Askarov is still there, I definitely consider adding him over somebody who may just end up an average top 6er.

GOALIES LIVES MATTER

If I remember correctly...Wasn't it Legace, and a few others over our 25 season run that pooped the bed for us?

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

48 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

If I remember correctly...Wasn't it Legace, and a few others over our 25 season run that pooped the bed for us?

Legace, and Cujo, and Osgood the first time, and Wregget, and Ranford, and Mrazek, and Howard, and Conklin, and MacDonald, and Gustavsson, and...