Mantha might be done for the year - what now

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

Just now, AtlantaHotWings said:

Hasn't broke his hand in a fight so no.....

[krsmith17 7,191]

8 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

he's playing like Mantha? 

He said ONE of the best... Not THE best...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,014]

7 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

He said ONE of the best... Not THE best...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

 You're the one who keeps talking about their "season". I'm simply pointing out what I said extends beyond 26 games. 

I just realized you've been doing that other fallacy everyone loves to call each other out for around here. You've been straw-manning the crap out of my argument, and when I finally point out all the misinformation you just say "congrats I guess". I'm not going to bother to keep defending myself from it, It's pointless and irrelevant to the point I've reiterated multiple times. 

At the end of the day hating on Zadina is the trendy thing to do. It's an over-correction to the post draft hype after he didn't immediately become a superstar. But it's tiring, he's playing like one of our best players right now so just enjoy it while it lasts. 

It's not a straw man for me not to care about your argument.

I keep saying 5v5 over this season Fabbri scores more per60

You say "but not if you look at these 26 games" well I'm not looking at just those 26 games. So there ya go.

I guess you can try to convince me Fabbri's 8 games prior to that somehow don't matter, but idk how you would? I'm gonna take both players entire body of work for us this season into consideration.

Yeah hating on Zadina is the trendy thing to do. There's a whole two of us on the board.

[krsmith17 7,191]

47 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

It's not a straw man for me not to care about your argument.

I keep saying 5v5 over this season Fabbri scores more per60

You say "but not if you look at these 26 games" well I'm not looking at just those 26 games. So there ya go.

I guess you can try to convince me Fabbri's 8 games prior to that somehow don't matter, but idk how you would? I'm gonna take both players entire body of work for us this season into consideration.

Yeah hating on Zadina is the trendy thing to do. There's a whole two of us on the board.

Like always you're spinning the argument to suit you. You're also very good at that... @Wheelchairsuperhero's original point was that Zadina has been better offensively than Fabbri since Zadina joined the team. Therefore not including Fabbri's stats before Zadina joined the team. He's right.

If WCSH is cherry picking stats by only including Fabbri's stats since Zadina joined the team, you're also cherry picking Fabbri's stats by only including since he was traded.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

No (liberal) politics! REEEEEEE

[kipwinger 8,520]

Check it, fighting is so scary and intimidating that NHL players will do almost anything to avoid getting in one.  Including straightening up their acts and behaving on the ice. 

Just kidding.  NHLers are so unconcerned about getting punched that they do it for fun in meaningless alumni games and chuckle about it afterward.  Puts into stark relief how insignificant Mantha's actions have been the last three years. 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by kipwinger

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

Like always you're spinning the argument to suit you. You're also very good at that... @Wheelchairsuperhero's original point was that Zadina has been better offensively than Fabbri since Zadina joined the team. Therefore not including Fabbri's stats before Zadina joined the team. He's right.

And again, it's a cool point, but I don't care about it lol. I'm taking Fabbri's entire body of work and you can't stop me.

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

If WCSH is cherry picking stats by only including Fabbri's stats since Zadina joined the team, you're also cherry picking Fabbri's stats by only including since he was traded.

Why would I care what he did for the Blues

1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

Check it, fighting is so scary and intimidating that NHL players will do almost anything to avoid getting in one.  Including straightening up their acts and behaving on the ice. 

Just kidding.  NHLers are literally so unconcerned about getting punched that they literally do it for fun in meaningless alumni games and chuckle about it afterward.  Puts into stark relief how insignificant Mantha's actions have been the last three years. 

 

I don't think one punch landed on purpose though

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

And again, it's a cool point, but I don't care about it lol. I'm taking Fabbri's entire body of work and you can't stop me.

But you're not...

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Why would I care what he did for the Blues

You wouldn't, because it doesn't fit your argument...

Which, by the way, you're both arguing two different points. Who's holds more weight? I think the one that doesn't really have a dog in the fight... @Wheelchairsuperhero has been pretty neutral on Zadina. You on the other hand, have a very clear bias against Zadina. You also created that dumb "Fabbri or Zadina?" thread. At the time you created that, it was probably pretty even, maybe even favoring Fabbri a little. Since then, Zadina has pulled away, being the much better player of late.

Zadina > Fabbri now, which hopefully means Zadina >>>>> Fabbri in the future. I'm just glad it's not an either or, and we can keep both. Zadina - top six, Fabbri - middle six.

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

It's not a straw man for me not to care about your argument.

I keep saying 5v5 over this season Fabbri scores more per60

You say "but not if you look at these 26 games" well I'm not looking at just those 26 games. So there ya go.

I guess you can try to convince me Fabbri's 8 games prior to that somehow don't matter, but idk how you would? I'm gonna take both players entire body of work for us this season into consideration.

Yeah hating on Zadina is the trendy thing to do. There's a whole two of us on the board.

It is straw manning to continually change the narrative of my argument.

kr pretty much sums it up for me. You're not actually including they're entire seasons because it doesn't fit for you (because there's no real reason to not include his games with the Blues), and we're also apparently arguing two different things.

I believe including the PP when determining someone's offensive worth is important, you don't. Seems wrong but hey, that's your opinion man. 

I'm gonna say something I've already said a handful of times, if you don't care about it feel free to no longer argue it. Zadina has been the better offensive player since joining the team.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

14 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

But you're not...

But I am. Fabbri has played 34 games for the Red Wings and I'm factoring in all of them. I care what Fabbri has done with our team, with our players, with our systems, with our coaches, for each and every game he's played in.

Wild idea I know

20 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Which, by the way, you're both arguing two different points. Who's holds more weight? I think the one that doesn't really have a dog in the fight... @Wheelchairsuperhero has been pretty neutral on Zadina. You on the other hand, have a very clear bias against Zadina.

Oh please spare me, WCSH has been a Zadina apologist from the beginning, he's made plenty of comments, he just doesn't climb down into the trenches with me about it like you do.

26 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

@WheelchairsuperheroYou also created that dumb "Fabbri or Zadina?" thread. At the time you created that, it was probably pretty even, maybe even favoring Fabbri a little. Since then, Zadina has pulled away, being the much better player of late.

 

Zadina > Fabbri now, which hopefully means Zadina >>>>> Fabbri in the future. I'm just glad it's not an either or, and we can keep both. Zadina - top six, Fabbri - middle six.

This is the most delusional post you've ever made. Zadina pulled away in that poll b4 I could even refresh the comments. It was an absolute slaughter fest and I'm still shaken up about it. A total of 4 people, FOUR, voted for Fabbri over the course of the poll.

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

But I am. Fabbri has played 34 games for the Red Wings and I'm factoring in all of them. I care what Fabbri has done with our team, with our players, with our systems, with our coaches, for each and every game he's played in.

Wild idea I know

Not really wild. Just fitting...

I'm sure if Fabbri had 7 points in those 9 games with the Blues, you would have included them.

3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Oh please spare me, WCSH has been a Zadina apologist from the beginning, he's made plenty of comments, he just doesn't climb down into the trenches with me about it like you do.

You know how much I love climbing down into the trenches with you...

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

This is the most delusional post you've ever made. Zadina pulled away in that poll b4 I could even refresh the comments. It was an absolute slaughter fest and I'm still shaken up about it. A total of 4 people, FOUR, voted for Fabbri over the course of the poll.

I wasn't referring to the results of the poll. I was referring to Fabbri actually having better stats back then, not these arbitrary stats you're using now...

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

6 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

But I am. Fabbri has played 34 games for the Red Wings and I'm factoring in all of them. I care what Fabbri has done with our team, with our players, with our systems, with our coaches, for each and every game he's played in.

Wild idea I know

Oh please spare me, WCSH has been a Zadina apologist from the beginning, he's made plenty of comments, he just doesn't climb down into the trenches with me about it like you do.

This is the most delusional post you've ever made. Zadina pulled away in that poll b4 I could even refresh the comments. It was an absolute slaughter fest and I'm still shaken up about it. A total of 4 people, FOUR, voted for Fabbri over the course of the poll.

I've been humoring you for the last several pages. This is the first thing you've said I've found legitimately irritating though, so score one for you.

I believe the conversation has sufficiently devolved to a close. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

27 minutes ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

It is straw manning to continually change the narrative of my argument.

kr pretty much sums it up for me. You're not actually including they're entire seasons because it doesn't fit for you (because there's no real reason to not include his games with the Blues), and we're also apparently arguing two different things.

Am I straw manning you or arguing something else entirely? Make up your mind. They're not the same thing.

I'm not looking at his time with STL, because I don't care how he played for STL, I don't care about STL in general. I care how he plays here.

27 minutes ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

I believe including the PP when determining someone's offensive worth is important, you don't. Seems wrong but hey, that's your opinion man.

I think quality players score more during 5v5, seems right, but hey it's just an opinion my man

27 minutes ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

I'm gonna say something I've already said a handful of times, if you don't care about it feel free to no longer argue it. Zadina has been the better offensive player since joining the team.

And I'm gonna say something I've said a handful of time, you're cherry picking stats by looking at Zadina's whole season but not Fabbris.

Oh nO dID I jUsT StRaW MaN yOu???

Edited January 25, 2020 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

8 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Not really wild. Just fitting...

I'm sure if Fabbri had 7 points in those 9 games with the Blues, you would have included them.

And I'm sure if Perlini had a hattrick in his one game in Chicago you'd tell everyone too

Look Mom I can play the what if game too

11 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You know how much I love climbing down into the trenches with you..

C'mon now u wouldnt do it if you wernt having fun

12 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I wasn't referring to the results of the poll. I was referring to Fabbri actually having better stats back then, not these arbitrary stats you're using now...

So you're saying there was a bias against Fabbri as far back as that thread

My suspicions confirmed

13 minutes ago, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

I've been humoring you for the last several pages. This is the first thing you've said I've found legitimately irritating though, so score one for you.

I believe the conversation has sufficiently devolved to a close. 

Why? We don't typically argue, it's true. Unless your counting when I poop on DBZ? And you've always been against the Zadina hate too

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

And I'm sure if Perlini had a hattrick in his one game in Chicago you'd tell everyone too

Look Mom I can play the what if game too

Nah, I'm not really the told ya so type... Besides, like I've been saying for a while now, no I don't think Perlini has been given a fair shake, but I also don't think he'll ever be anything more than a bottom six forward at this point.

3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

C'mon now u wouldnt do it if you wernt having fun

No, I wouldn't. Loves a good hockey debate.

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

So you're saying there was a bias against Fabbri as far back as that thread

My suspicions confirmed

Not so much against Fabbri, but maybe for Zadina. Didn't you know that new is better?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

Not so much against Fabbri, but maybe for Zadina. Didn't you know that new is better?

For nearly two seasons I have fought the oppression and tyranny of the Zadina apologists.

This is my struggle.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Zadina 2 goals 1 assist , so long ahl

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

Bertuzzi is the best player on this team

[Dabura 12,207]

22 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Fabbri's points per 60 during 5v5 is better than Zadina's though

If we take out the 9 games he played with the Blues, yes. It's a pretty big difference. If we add those games in, it's a very small difference.

Regardless, I don't think it's necessarily problematic that half of Zadina's points are power play points. He's 20, he isn't getting a whole lot of playing time at even strength, he hasn't spent much time on Larkin's wing, and our power play needs all the help it can get.

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

17 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Am I straw manning you or arguing something else entirely? Make up your mind. They're not the same thing.

I'm not looking at his time with STL, because I don't care how he played for STL, I don't care about STL in general. I care how he plays here.

I think quality players score more during 5v5, seems right, but hey it's just an opinion my man

And I'm gonna say something I've said a handful of time, you're cherry picking stats by looking at Zadina's whole season but not Fabbris.

Oh nO dID I jUsT StRaW MaN yOu???

It's not cherry picking stats, it's using the relevant sample size for my very clear statement. But go ahead, continue to argue a separate premise because it's easier (there's a term for this). 

You're good at baiting, I'll give you that. 

edit

17 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

 

Why? We don't typically argue, it's true. Unless your counting when I poop on DBZ? And you've always been against the Zadina hate too

I'm not against the Zadina hate, I'm against stupid Zadina hate. I've agreed with several criticisms said about him.

Also DBZ is amazing, only nerds don't like it. 

Edited January 25, 2020 by Wheelchairsuperhero

[Scott R Lucidi 442]

Is Fabbri kinky like Zadina?

[F.Michael 4,590]

What matters most is the ‘milf standard’ of Fabbri’s mother.

IIRC - Zad’s mother is quality.

[chaps80 1,591]

On 1/21/2020 at 10:56 PM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Every tragedy is an opportunity.

Mantha's not gonna get a huge contract now, in a season where we didn't exactly need him to get us wins anyway.

Hopefully we can get him signed cheap now and he continues to be a ppg production player later.

This is kinda why I wanted Witter re-signed thou. He costs nothing, and seemed like a good Michigan hillbilly. Coulda been out punching bag for years if needed. Yzerman drafted him too...

 

We do have McIlrath. He should be in Detroit handling the rough stuff, but he's in GR.  I swear he was told not to fight anyways though. Mantha being out sucks, but it's not a big deal. Cause we need to finish 31st.

On 1/25/2020 at 2:50 AM, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Bertuzzi is the best player on this team

Absolutely. He should be wearing the C.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 1/25/2020 at 8:00 AM, Dabura said:

If we take out the 9 games he played with the Blues, yes. It's a pretty big difference. If we add those games in, it's a very small difference.

His time in STL where he was either scratched or on the 4th line...

Even if was getting top line minutes there, I wouldn't care though. I care about how he plays here in our systems with our players.

On 1/25/2020 at 8:00 AM, Dabura said:

Regardless, I don't think it's necessarily problematic that half of Zadina's points are power play points. He's 20, he isn't getting a whole lot of playing time at even strength, he hasn't spent much time on Larkin's wing, and our power play needs all the help it can get.

I have no issue with Zadina scoring on the PP, that's a good thing. I'm just saying that adjusted for ice time Fabbri scores more at even strength and I prefer players who do that.

On 1/25/2020 at 9:16 AM, Wheelchairsuperhero said:

It's not cherry picking stats, it's using the relevant sample size for my very clear statement. But go ahead, continue to argue a separate premise because it's easier (there's a term for this). 

You're good at baiting, I'll give you that. 

edit

I'm not against the Zadina hate, I'm against stupid Zadina hate. I've agreed with several criticisms said about him.

Also DBZ is amazing, only nerds don't like it. 

You don't know what a strawman is. I haven't manipulated or intentionally misinterpreted your premise at all. I understand what it is and I reject it. And I've explained why. Carry on.